EXPERINECE 36 | Stronger Together - Jerri Schmitz, Founder of The Matthews House in Fort Collins

Welcome to the LOCO Experience Podcast with LOCO Think Tank Founder Kurt Bear. Listen in as Kurt digs deep into the business and life stories of business owners and thought leaders at different stages of growth from all walks of life. Launching and growing anything can be a crazy experience, so expand your thinking and level up your understanding of what it takes to find success in the world of free enterprise. Welcome back to the LOCO Experience Podcast. This is your host, Kurt Bear, and I'm really pleased to be joined today by Jerry Schmitz. And Jerry is the founder, former executive director and grants manager at the Matthewshouse, a local nonprofit here in Lermar County. And Jerry, I just love to hear we haven't seen each other for a good while. What have you been up to since since you hung up the executive director hat? Sure. Since the end of 2019, I've really been spending time with family, touring around the United States with my husband Matt in our fifth wheel trailer. So we are full time our viewers and love them. How many like distinct places have you visited, would you say? Oh, goodness. We've been up to the T-tons. That's a must have every year. We've been into Washington, Idaho, Utah, California. We're going to be hitting the road to head to the Black Hills and then into Minnesota and then tour around the Great Lakes and then work our way up to Maine. Wow. Have you been up to the Northeast before? I have never. And so looking forward to it. Yeah, it sounds like you've covered the West pretty well already. Yes, we have. And that's just a kind of a lifetime opportunity, right? I know you Matt had been dreaming of such a trip for a while. Yes. It really is. We just enjoy the flexibility being able to stay as long as we want in one place. But most importantly, getting more time to spend with our family, with children and six grandchildren. Nice. Thanks. Well, we'll get more into the family as we go along here. Sure. I think one of the things I just want this episode to really have people an opportunity to really learn about the heart and the evolution of the Matthews house. And you founded the Matthews house back in, was it 2005? That's when it started. Okay. We opened up our doors in January of 2006, working with youth. Okay. So about 15, 14 years as an executive director, I suppose. And in the capable hands of Nicole, arms strong now. And she was your right-hand woman for probably over seven, eight, ten years. She's actually, yeah, been with the Matthews house almost 12 years. Nice. Nice. And so let's just get into the heart of it, like the founding story. What was your place in life in 2005 before this came into being? Right. Well, back when I lived in Phoenix, Arizona, I was a substitute teacher, also coached sports, basketball and volleyball at the high school in a couple of years of collegiate coaching at Grand Canyon University. So my life was really surrounded by adolescence, primarily taught middle school and high school. This had a love for that age of youth. Then in 2001, moved here to Fort Collins. And I really felt like I was kind of done with coaching. There's a lot of life lessons you learn from sports and being a coach. But I felt like there was maybe something else that was going to consume my time. And so I kind of left that open and the local church that I was a part of, I became involved in a young couple's life that was really struggling. And I kind of walked alongside them and helped them find some resources. And then it seemed like after that, young youth kept entering into my life one way or another. This local church was in Old Town and some types. And you could share names too, I'm sure if you want to. Sure. Yeah, at the time, it was called North Point Church. There on the corner of Remington and Mason, Remington, yes, yes, exactly. And homeless folks would come in there seeking help. And the pastor nicknamed me the Angel of Mercy. And so he would usually have me meet with these folks. And some of them were youth, especially one that was kind of out here on one of those magazine rackets where they load up these kiddos on the east coast and tell them they can, you know, fulfill their dreams and they end up selling magazines door to door. And this young lady was just wanting to get home. And so I helped her through that process and got her on a bus and got her home. But in particular, there was a young man in Old Town that I really was waiting on a friend, her card broken down. We were going to have lunch there in the square. And I was sitting there on a bench and he happened to sit down beside me and being building rapport with that age. I immediately started up a conversation with him and asked him, you know, what was going on in his life and come to find out he had aged out of foster care. And he had been on the streets for two nights. And he actually pointed up on top of one of the roofs there in the square of those businesses and said, I slept up there last night. And so I was fairly new to Fort Collins. But I thought, gosh, there's got to be someplace this kid can get some help. So having a really good friend in Sarah Mitchell, I called her up. She's a licensed clinical social worker and said, Sarah, I need your help. I need to get back to this kid. He had a track phone. I did give him 20 bucks to put some minutes on his phone. He did and he texted me and stayed in touch with me. Time to find out. And meeting with Sarah, she said, Jerry, they're just really, aren't you resources? And I remember saying to her, well, somebody should do something about that. And you know, not long after that, you know, I am a woman of faith and I was praying kind of what my next path was going to be. And this young man just couldn't get off of my heart. And it was like God said, so somebody should do something about that, huh? Maybe that's you. And so I really did not a scientific community assessment, but I did go into on the web and got some information about local nonprofits. And I surely didn't want to duplicate any services. So I met with some local nonprofits and they did do some help, but not extensive with kids, they do not foster care. So after about six months of really praying about it and also doing hopefully good homework, good assessment of our local community, I met with Sarah really with the intention of talking Sarah into doing something about this problem. She was currently working at a residential treatment center up in Cheyenne. But as I explained to her what I thought could happen, she said, Jerry, this is the kind of organization I would love to work for. But I hadn't even filed for nonprofit status yet. Nor did I have any funds to hire anyone to do this work. So long story short, then, I did file nonprofit status, started writing some grants. The first four grants I wrote I got, which now is the grants made sure I have found it. Yeah, it's not quite as easy as it was. So that was an indication to me that funds were being supplied. Sarah was willing to come on because I don't have a social work background. I really needed Sarah and her expertise. And so she was able then to after she had her first child. She went on maternity leave with her former employer, but then was not asked to come back. And so again, the doors were open for her to join in with me. And Sarah was an integral part of the founding of the Matthews house. And what did that look like? Was there enough funds to serve a handful of clients and then you run out of funds and look for some more or like how did that early service model look? What it looked like early on is I was financially able at the time to buy the house at 726 Matthews Street. And I knew that if the nonprofit didn't make it, I could probably sell the house. I wasn't worried about that. The reason I bought a house is my whole premise on serving the issue was, sorry, I still get emotional, was I didn't want an agency. I didn't want a place where there was a stigma attached to it. I really wanted a home. I wanted a welcoming environment where we could serve these youth and community members could come alongside and be mentors and volunteers. And I wanted it really, as I've said in the past, to look like, smell like a home. That's why we had volunteers baking cookies, those sort of things. I didn't settle for old furniture that I could find on the street corner. I wanted to invest in some nice furniture. I wanted it to feel like a place that these kids would feel valued. So that helped us. We didn't have a rent. And I, at the time, was able to work without a salary. So I really just needed to find funds to hire Sarah because she, of course, needed a paid job. And so that's really all I needed was in the beginning. Of course. I think that's a valuable lesson to draw out just a business lesson. Whether it's a nonprofit or a for-profit, sometimes what it takes to get something going is somebody's willingness to work without a paycheck for a while or to throw some money into it or whatever. But it always takes a little bit of something to get that primed. Right. And you know, during that time, I never really thought that much about the future. But having a good board of directors, they reminded me, Jerry, if hopefully you do don't, but if you get hit by a bus or whatever, are we really going to be able to find a volunteer executive director? Right. So our budget really needs to look a little different. Yeah, yeah. And so in response to your previous question, we couldn't just write a grant and then run out of money. We really had to look to a three to five year plan. And so, you know, I think my coaching background really helped me because you have preseason in season, postseason plans. And so it just became natural to me to go, okay, preseason, here we are. This is what we have, but going into season, we're going to need XYZ. Where is that money going to come from? So in the process, Sarah reminded me that our local Larimer County Department of Human Services served these youth, aging out of foster care. And we really needed to go to them and say, hey, will you contract with us? We know you can't do everything for these kids. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so many kids that have sweet corners. And we have a valuable service we can offer. So in 2006, mid 2006, we were able to establish some contracts with Larimer County Department of Human Services, the Children Youth Family Division, to serve these youth. So that was a source of income. And then we continued, of course, to write grants. It was still just you and Sarah at the point. It was still just Sarah, yep. And we, I was wearing way too many hats. So we realized we needed to have a development director. And people told me, this is the best kept secret in Larimer County, this nonprofit. You need to get on social media. You need a good website and all of this, which is- Right, right, way beyond my expertise. So we were able to write a grant, secure some funding for a part-time development. We hired Joyce Dickens, who the community knows, yeah, very well. And Joyce came in and just got us off to a tremendous start in donor development. She also became a grant writer. I remember our first little cultivate hope, which is now the ongoing Matthews house, big annual fundraiser, was at the Hilton. And I think we had 75 people show up. It was a breakfast. It was a breakfast. Yes, Ray Martinez actually spoke at that. And you know, it was in one of those side rooms. It wasn't even in their big room. But you know, Joyce got us off on the right start and every year we would get more donors because we were showing that we had a budget that worked. We also got more funding through foundations. Well, and I'm remembering from my time on the board that, you know, it was the tracking of outcomes right from the start that really helped establish that, hey, what, these dollars that we're spending here is making a difference. Yes. And that was probably your coaching background as well, like- It was. You know, if we make a difference in these kids' life. Yeah, statistics are really important to a coach when you're looking back on developing, you know, the game plan for your next opponent. And I knew that we needed to show not only those we were contracting with the Department of Human Services that we were actually making a change in these kids' lives. And you know, that is not easy in the beginning because these youth are really stereotyped as being lazy, just having no initiative. But Sarah helped me really understand trauma. Yeah, you might be too. If you lived in five homes, I'm going to be used by two different men. Exactly. Are you trusted? Yeah. Or whatever. Yes. I was not the least bit prepared for what I found out when- Yeah. Exactly. Like a blue pill moment on the matrix where you're like, oh, I didn't know this kind of pain and trauma was so profound throughout our community. Exactly. Yes. And I don't think I was prepared for that. And there's a thing called secondary trauma that Sarah picked up right away that I was probably experiencing because, you know, I remember in my childhood, a couple of friends who's parents lived in poverty, I think probably. I was raised not very far out of poverty, but I don't ever remember missing a meal or not having clothing. We had a lot of spaghetti, but we did not- Yes, exactly. Yeah, or liver and onions and some of those things. But I just thought poverty was, you know, lack of housing, lack of clothing. Lack of material things, however, one of Mother Teresa's quotes that just sticks with me all the time is she said that poverty isn't about being naked or homeless. The real poverty is loneliness and feeling unloved. And you know, that's so, so true in these kids' lives. Yes, they, I know, appreciated some of the material things that we could give to them and help them with through flex funding that we got in grants and contracts. But where I really saw the difference is when they started to notice that someone valued them as a human being. And that's when you saw the light kind of flicker, the, I guess the light of hope I could see in their eyes is, you know what, maybe I can become a person of value. Maybe I'm not what my stepdad called me or other people that abused me. Maybe I'm not an accident. Or unfortunately, even the case worker that was trying to help me, but from the county that's got 37 cases. And I kind of feel like more of a problem to this person than I am a person. Right. Yeah. Those case workers are doing amazing work. The one thing that we, I found right away is that when a youth had a mentor come into their life, someone that wasn't getting paid, it made a huge difference. In fact, I had a kid ask me, how much are you paying my mentor? Right. Yeah. And I said, no, no, we don't pay your mentor. He's a community volunteer and he goes, Jerry, you have to be paying him something. He took me fishing, and he bought me lunch. And I said, nope, he did that all on his own. That is when these youth really started coming around and realizing that they had a future ahead of them that could be positive. Yeah, that wasn't defined by all these tough things. Exactly. And you know, the other thing I learned about trauma is it's chaotic. And chaos is what they're normal. And a friend of mine, whose psychologist said, Jerry, let's imagine you're on a dock and you're getting into a canoe. What's the first thing that you want to happen when you're getting into that canoe? And I said, wow, I want to establish some stability. So I will make sure I shift my weight or whatever so I can become stable. And he said, that's your normal, right? And I said, well, yeah. And he goes, well, you got to remember, these kids normal is chaos. And so when things start feeling stable, they're going to create some chaos because that's their normal, just like your normal during chaos is to create stability. And that really hit me that that's what was happening. It's almost like a different thinking style. It is. Whatever, like the, what do they call the ADHD, the neuro non-typical or whatever, like if you've lived through that trauma circumstance, like you can't really very easily think normally. Right. And so you want to do what establishes stability, but not too fast because they're going to sabotage it, let it happen at their pace. And he said, even if it is one step forward and three steps back, be okay with that. Take it slowly, let them start understanding this new normal in their life. And they will engage in it. And you know, we saw it. We really did it. Like I said, it wasn't easy. And so outcomes, back to outcomes. It was hard that first year because, you know, I as a coach, being a five-year-in-a-row state championship, I wanted to see it right away, you know. And I was also reminded that what I saw that they could do, they couldn't visualize it yet. You know, you can't become what you can't see. And they could not visualize it yet. So I had to remind myself, you know, when I'm training a volleyball player, for instance, an outside hitter, there's a three-step approach, a four-step approach. There's all different ways that an athlete changes that forward momentum into upward momentum. But what I had to recognize is what was happening in those little steps that wasn't changing that forward moment into upward. So we had to break things down into very small steps. I didn't say to an athlete, jump higher, come on, come on, jump higher. I had to go, oh, look, right here, it's that second step. So we had to break it down for these kids, and I had to slow my thinking down. I had to realize that they needed what I called small victories. Our corporate name is Live the Victory. And primarily that came about from a book that I was going to publish and then decided the world didn't need one more book, but it was really taking sports analogies and applying them to our life. Oh, you know, it probably would have been a little cheesy book, you know, Kurt, we can work it a little bit. Yeah, don't let fear keep you on the bench, and, you know, all these different analogies. But I really did see that you can't just say, get a job, quit doing that. Why do you keep, you know, sabotaging things at school? Quit. We had to stop and go, okay, this is their normal. Let's break down something as simple as showing up to class on a regular basis into small steps, who's going to give you the right the next morning. And a lot of these kids, yes, a lot of these youth were pretty much living on their own. So you know, I think back to when I was in junior high, if my parents weren't getting me up and giving me breakfast and then driving me to school, I might have chosen to sleep in a few days. So anyway, yes, so outcomes we were able to start tracking by what I call small victories. And at first I thought foundations might not be impressed with that. But when you preface it with the kids we're working with in the trauma, yeah, those small victories started 40% increase in class attendance. Exactly, you know, and be okay with that. Right, you know, right, they don't all attend class perfectly, you know, in fact, they're still pretty bad at it. Yeah, when considered the average, but they did way better than they had been. Exactly. Yeah. And then finding out, you know, when kid told me, said, Jerry, my stepdad was supposed to stop by and pick me up. And he didn't for school. Yeah. And yeah, I guess I could have walked, but yeah, I just stayed home. So, you know, we had to just really narrow it down to that small step. So if stepdad doesn't show up, what would be the next best thing you could do? And so the outcomes from small victories became bigger outcomes. You get some momentum now. Graduation from high school did not re-enter the juvenile justice system after being in it for one year was enrolled in a career development class. Maybe it wasn't college, but we do have kiddos that are completing college now. Yeah. Which is amazing. So yeah, that's, that was those earliest days. Talk to me about some of the earliest, other than Joyce, like was it more, you know, what we'd call case workers in a normal setting, transition facilitators, right? Yes, we chose that name just because and nothing against case workers. We just didn't want the kiddos referred to as cases. And so transition facilitator became what our staff were known as. They were helping these youth facilitate a big transition that they were in. Yes, so we hired one more to help Sarah. And to relieve me of having a full case load, so I could concentrate more as an executive director, which was hard for me to give up that portion of it, because I really enjoyed working directly with the youth. But yeah, we were able to get a grant to hire another worker. And then our contracts kept increasing, and more kids were coming to us. So outcomes keep getting shown. Yes. And so we might get a grant or a contract that would allow us to hire two more full-time employees. Then we were able to serve more youth. So yeah, from about 2006 through 2012, primarily the staff that we added were workers. Yeah, kind of director, provider, the source, various types and whatever. And I remember, well, my way of Jill joined the organization fairly early on, and that was a new, like, a federal grant thing or something. Right, it's called Chafee. Yeah, which is a federal program that is given to counties, to states and then to counties. And primarily, it's federal funding to work with youth aging out of foster care. Oh, I see. Yes. So the federal government recognizes this as a problem, generally speaking, but for the solution we don't know. Right. Yeah, and that's what I was going to mention is Jill joined us when we got that Chafee contract, which allowed us to hire two more full-time workers. Gotcha, that was, I was golfing with Ty when his Sarah's husband, when he said, Sarah's working for this cool, new nonprofit. Jill, you should check out. Yeah, and Jill worked with a young lady that I'm still in contact with, who has a full-time job providing for her son. She came to the Matthews house, the young lady pregnant. I'm sure Jill changed diapers and picked up this young lady to take her to different job interviews and everything. And now, this young lady is in her late twenties full-time employment. This young baby that Jill and I helped is now, I just, in fact, on my visit back here to Fort Collins, saw him on Monday. He's now in seventh grade. What? Does it seem possible? Yeah. But Jill had a huge impact in that young lady's life. Yeah, well, the Matthews house had a huge impact on Jill's life in mind for that matter. Yeah. So you mentioned kind of through 2012, kind of same old, same old expansion of services, more funding sources, more donors, more support, and then some evolution. Yeah, we were outgrowing the place. It was about a 2100 square foot facility. We were able to rent one level of a three-story building next to us to move our admin. And then we were able to have a little more space for workers. But Jill was in an office with four other workers upstairs. It wasn't COVID-friendly. No, it was not COVID-friendly. And we, I owned the house, so the organization shouldn't be making improvements on it with me owning it. Well, they hadn't paid rent a long time, but that's true, basically, I hope. Yeah, but we did get a visit from the zoning, a person from the zoning department of Fort Collins, and said, you know, you can have 14 people working in this house. Yeah. The zoning was something neighborhood something. At the time, I bought it, we fit into the zoning, but we outgrew it. And we had to look for another place. And so we were able to purchase what is still now our youth and family center at 415 Mason Court. Number one, just right down the street from you here in Courts. And that was a big transition for us. It was still a home. It still was not an office type building. Our staff were so elated, we moved into, gosh, I forget the square footage, but I think close to 4,000 with the upstairs and the basement and all of that. We were able to bring Joyce on full time and goodness, I'm trying to think. That was early 2012, and I believe, oh, I could be wrong, that I think we were right at about 18 or 20 employees. Currently the Matthews house is about 50 full time employees, yes, and part timers. But yeah, in 2012, that was a big transition. We had our own bigger space. And we were able to do more. We really established our experiential education program then. We're able to provide for the youth all kinds of activities, like fishing, backpacking trips. I'm talking about that. Music, art. You know, I know now, but I did it back then, like, what's the point of things like outward bound and taking trouble, youth, camping and hiking tall hills and stuff, can you speak to that just a bit? Sure. I've always been an advocate of experiential ed. My youngest son got a degree in outdoor experiential ed, and I think just listening to him, I started learning the real value of getting someone outside of their current environment to open up space in their mind, in their emotions, to really be contemplative and think about their life. And so many of the activities, you're able, the kids are much more relaxed. They're not thinking about their homework, they're not thinking about whatever's going on at home. And our workers can just take that time to say, what, where do you see your life? Where do you see your life in three years? Yeah. What do you think about this? I'm so impressed by how fast you learn how to set that tent up. Are you always mechanically able and stuff, whatever? Exactly. Yeah. So many ways, rock climbing is amazing because they're learning to belay. They're learning to understand that someone's safety is their responsibility, and they better listen up and understand how to do that. Then to accomplish looking at that mountain and going, what? I actually got to the top of that, but I did it with the help of my belayer, with someone going, hey, look to your right, up about six inches, that might be a good place. So many, I think of my childhood, so many ways that my dad did that for me. And I had a cheerleader in my life all the time, with my mom and my dad. And it built confidence, it built resiliency, and so to get them in the outdoors, to do things like rock climbing, fishing, whatever it is, these youth never had those opportunities. I worked with a young kid, born and raised right here in Fort Collins, and he had never been up the Puter Canyon. Right. Never. He told me, yeah, I stole a bike once and started to ride it up there, but then I thought I better return the bike. But I said, Tommy, why tell me why you never made it up there? He goes, Terry, we never owned a car. And he knew nothing about family vacations. Right. He knew nothing about going there. Yeah. Right. And also not just the outdoors, there's things like music, photography. The Matthews house right now is really growing their music program. In fact, where I'm writing grants that we can do a studio build and kids who have experienced trauma, there's something, and I'm not the expert to really explain this to you, but in the brain, that part of creativity is actually stimulated. And we've got some kids that I was just amazed, picked up a guitar, and is playing music. Well, something like rock, roll, or other band that didn't go through some junk on the way to get in there. That's true. Yeah. You know, there's not that many silver spoons that turn into gold records. Exactly. That's very true. And you know, they couldn't afford to have lessons or number one to even buy the instrument. So now we, you know, have grants that are supplied instruments and art, photography, we work with CSU and their art department. And it's just amazing what happens when a spark, the spark, for me growing up, it was sports. I love sports. It was my spark, and my spark was ignited by my parents. I can't remember a basketball camp that they couldn't send me to, because we could afford to do that. So when a spark is there in a kid, but they have no means of it being ignited, they don't feel like they're living to their full potential. I'm already doing this thing, because I don't know how to do it. That's where our experiential education program is. Whatever that kid says they're interested in, we will figure it out. It's, there are so many other nonprofits that we refer to that maybe we don't have that exact thing that that kid wants, but we'll find the funds to get them those services. Can we do a zoom back? Sure. And like since you mentioned your childhood a little bit and stuff, I always like to kind of like learn about where, where did you come from? Like, where did you grow up and how big a family and kind of some of that stuff? Can we learn about young Jerry? Yes, young Jerry was born and raised in Oklahoma. Okay. And my dad worked for Phillips, petroleum. And we lived in a very small, tight knit community. But again, like I said, sports was really important to me. In Oklahoma, girls basketball is as big as boys basketball. Is that right? Yeah. And so that was a big part of my life. I also were you like a the star of the girls basketball team? I was the point guard and I actually got to play on the sixth grade team when I was in fourth grade. So and then played, I couldn't play on the high school team when I was an eighth grader, but the coach had me practice with them. But because of the athletic rules, I couldn't play on the high school team. But then my dad got his one and only transferred to Casper, Wyoming. And I was excited for the adventures. So I was moving when I was going to be a freshman. But little did I know that Casper, Wyoming did not have girls basketball. What? Yes. Can you believe that? That was back in 19. Gosh, what would that be? Seven, I believe, 68. So I wouldn't get a subtle for that. So my PE teacher and about five other girls, I'm like, okay, what's the Wyoming Athletic Association? I'm going to write them and I'm going to say, you know, I knew a little bit about title nine, but that wasn't even a big thing back then. But I just said, this is a right. You have boys basketball. You have boys this, boys that, you know, they hardly had any girls sports. Interesting. But long story short. Were there other girls basketball teams in Laramie or in July or other things like that? You know, not in the surrounding areas. Okay. By my junior year, we had a basketball team. And we played, I don't know, KC, Wyoming. We played Evansville, some of the smaller little teams in Wyoming, yeah. But by the time I graduated, there was a full-fledged girls sports program up in Casper, Wyoming. So Kelly Walsh, high school. But anyway, that was my childhood, I have one brother. Well, that shows that identifies a person of action, you know, and you know, did that come from your family? Was it just kind of wired into you or? I think so. My mom was the medical assistant for the one and only doctor in town. And you know, she never could mention names, but she just would say, you know, go through your closet. We need to take some clothes over to this family. And I would go through and stuff. I wasn't really wearing. She'd have my brother go through his mom and dad to go through theirs. And we would drop off sacks of clothing to Denver because she would find out in the doctor's office what some immediate needs were. She would also drop off food. And I remember, maybe it's, you know, as I think about it now, maybe it was because she wanted me to take action. She never got out of the car. She had me take it to the front door. And sometimes she had planned ahead and told them, hey, look out on your porch at this certain time. So I remember doing that. But I also in fourth grade, I found out about the Christian Children's Fund and how you could support a child somewhere in a third world country. So my friends of one which I'm still in contact with said that I bullied them out of their lunch money, but I know I didn't do that. But I just said, hey, we need to raise X amount of money. Can you guys donate a quarter a week? I can't remember now the amount that we had to come up. It was like, I think it was only like $12 a month or something. And finally, I got enough kids to participate. And so we would write this young, I still to this day can see the kids face and we would write letters and they would respond back to us. So I did that in fourth grade and I think again, it was probably my mom and dad. My dad was, I don't know if J.C.'s is even here in Colorado. Yeah, we have, well, we have. It's been in women in my town. My dad was the president of J.C.'s and I remember him helping get a big tower at the football stadium, erected through going out and soliciting donations from others. So my family did influence me quite a bit. I had an uncle that was a state legislature and legislator and I would sit down with him and just ask him all kinds of questions about what they did with the Capitol Building. He would tell me about bills. That's when I first learned how a bill was enacted. And I would ask him, well, why are you doing more for people living in poverty? And I remember my uncle saying, well, what do you want us to do? And I said, I don't know, but somebody should do something to help them out. And he, I remember him kind of stigmatizing, saying, well, you know, some of them just don't want a job. And I had a friend that had told me that her stepdad ran away with all her mom's money and maybe that happened. Maybe it didn't, but I knew that it wasn't just everybody was just lazy and didn't want to get a job. But anyway, that, my childhood, I have older brother that's three years older that all through high school made sure the boys that he wanted to be my friends could be and the ones that didn't. He protected me from that. You stay away from my sister. I do remember him getting in the face of young man, one young man at our teen center. But yeah, my brother is still living in Oklahoma, about three years older. Interesting. Interesting. And so really quite a family-focused environment, Sonslay could support a lot of encouragement, a lot of empowerment, which is probably a lot of what many of the youth, the Matthews House have served over the years don't receive at home because people are feeling desperate for their own self. So it's hard to lift somebody else up. Yeah, and you know community, Phillips petroleum actually had what they called employee camps. They actually provided housing. Now my friend lived in a camp that had about 20 houses in it. And my dad, we lived in one that only had three houses. But our next door neighbor, she was about 10 years older than me, but she would babysit sometimes. But we had bad mittens set up, croquet in our yard. And the three houses we'd all gather, you know, in the evenings and I played Annie over, you know, you throw the ball over the house and then run, yeah, I have fond memories of being in community and helping each other out. You know, I love the African philosophy of Ubuntu, spelled U-B-U-N-T-U. And I was a Zulu tribe that created this philosophy that it means I am because of who you are. And I, the whole philosophy is around us being open and available to others. Also affirming others and also having a good sense of self assurance. And I think back to my childhood and I really am who I am because of others. So the whole philosophy is about humanity, but what I love about it is the part of being open and available for others because we all are going to go through something sometime in our life as good of a childhood as I had and a good first marriage. I went through a time in 2012, went through a divorce that, you know, was not anything that I ever expected would happen in my life. And I'm sure not going to compare it to the trauma that these kids of experience, but I remember going through fillings of rejection and abandonment. I just remember one youth that I was working with that I had stayed in contact with. And he actually was still in prison, but he got to call me once a month. And I had to let him know because he knew my ex-susband. I had to let him know what I was going through because he was asking, you know, about my ex-susband and I remember sharing with him and that kid, I can still see it standing in my bed, talking to him, he was giving me scripture verses, giving me encouragement. And I just said, Tommy, I don't know if you remember the day that I said, I'm not doing favors for you. I'm just being available and being available for you right now and someday you're going to be available for me. And that was the moment, it was real of being, he was available for me at that time, just like I was for him. And you know, that's the whole culture of the Matthews house, it really is. And it still is. And, you know, it just thrills my heart, being gone a year and a half now, which was a difficult transition. I actually went through some mentoring of how to let go because it's kind of like your baby, let go and let others. And it's just been amazing to see that when you focus on culture, yes, we had to focus, you were on the board, you know, there were board meetings, I'm sure some of you looked at me like, Jerry, we're really close. We got to focus more on finances. And yes, we did. But I had to know that I had to let other people take the rain in that area because what was important was for me to be available to keep the culture in place. Because that's what is the most important. And it just thrills my heart now to see postings on Facebook. I'm not there anymore, but to see some of the same types of success stories being reported thrills my heart. Yeah, I appreciate that so much. And, you know, to have something that lives on, you know, beyond when you're going to be able to make immediate impacts to it on a day to day and things like that, let's jump back to the business journey a little bit. Yeah, I remember the divorce and some of the challenge there. I must take them on to the board just shortly after that because the Mason property had already been acquired and stuff. But talk to me about the kind of the expansion of services a little bit because you move beyond youth, probably shortly beyond after that is that right? Right. Yeah, actually 2010, we did start our strengthening families program. Okay. And I really thought, you know, we were just going to work with youth. And when I came to recognize that these youth were in the situations they were in because of their early childhood, by no fault of their own. Yeah. They went through some pretty excruciating trauma. And so it dawned on me, I used the illustration, you know, we're doing a pretty good job pulling these kids out of this raging river. But why aren't we moving upstream to figure out why they're falling in? Wouldn't that prevention be better than intervention? And so at the time, the director of the child welfare here in Lurimer County, they were going through a whole paradigm shift called differential response. And he invited me to some conferences to go with him and see how this was working in other parts of the United States. And it was primarily, let's put prevention services. Let's not wait till we have to pull those kids out of a home. Let's see if we can keep those kids intact in their home, but put some services in the home. Kind of first son of trouble. Let's go through. Yeah. Instead of waiting. And you know, child welfare in the past had just been, oh, we wait until it's so bad that we have to get the kids out and we got to put them somewhere. And then disrupting that is even more trauma for the kid to pull them out of their home. So anyway, we decided that, you know, the Matthews house would be a good place to initiate what we call strengthening families program. So in 2010, we started receiving referrals for families. So we worked primarily with the adults in the household, whatever needs they had, but also the children. So that's when we started working with children zero to 18 instead of just the youth. And so that started in 2010 and it's still going strong. We're still doing that program. And then I thought, wow, what if we could move even further upstream and have a place in our community where it's not referred by child welfare, but maybe somebody's going through an issue. And eventually their kids are going to be impacted if they don't get some services. We need a place where they can come. And so again, in Columbus, Ohio, they had what we're called settlement houses. And it was places in their communities where you could walk down and maybe one settlement house focused on career development and job readiness, another one maybe focused on early childhood, but there were places people could walk to within their communities and get the services that they needed. And it was not associated in any way with the government. It was community taking care of community. And so Jim Drendel, then the child welfare director said, Jerry, we got to go visit some of these these settlement houses. So we did and then he had funds for CSU to do an assessment and a community assessment with focus groups, surveys to see if something like this would actually be used in Larimer County because just because they worked in Columbus, didn't mean they would work here. So overwhelmingly, the CSU, this independent assessment that they did reported back that people said, yes, we would come to a place like this. Yes, I have needed a place like this in the past. And so Jim asked if the Matthews house would take the lead. There was created what's called a family consumer council. And we met on a monthly basis just to say, okay, if we do this, what would it look like? What nonprofits want to be a part of this? And that was a year and a half process. And then Jim asked me to come with him to a meeting of putterschool district with then the superintendent was Jerry Wilson, Dr. Jerry Wilson. And he said, I want you to do your dog and pony show that you did for me about prevention. So I still remember Dr. Wilson kind of looking at me like, you know, what's this lady talking about? But he was ready to be persuaded though. Yes, he was. And he finally did say we have an underutilized school over at Fuyana. We could let you use part of that space for this community life center. So that was in 2012, I believe, I may be off a year or two here or there. And we were able to use that facility, which was being used for early head start. And it was like an assessment center. And the employees of putterschool district loved us because they would say, hey, you mentioned that you're out of diapers and you need more food. Let me walk you down to the Matthews community life center and they can get you set up with whatever you need. So we were there until goodness, it's escaping me in 2018, I believe. And then they needed to take back that space. So thank goodness, first Presbyterian church just down the street from here. Their pastor said, you know, come talk to us. Maybe the space that we don't use on Monday through Friday, you could use for your community life center. So we were able to move that space there. And then prior to that, though in 2015, we collaborated with the Genesis project over on Link Lane, which sits, was the old honk club, the one and only strip club in four hellens that became a jerk. They had a facility and they backed up to some low income housing. And we were able to partner with them to serve that community there. They have now expanded. Yeah. Have you been over there? Yeah. Amazing. How it is amazing. I got to see it on Monday. But. Yeah. Well, like six big classrooms. Oh, yes. And a gymnasium. Yes. Big auditorium. Yes. So we can do ESL, our HSC and GED programs. They're all those acronyms you're talking about. Well, high school equivalency. Well, it is what they call the GED now in English as a second language. Sorry, I was teasing you about jargon. No, I know. And we have homework outpers over there. The kids in that trailer park can just walk over after school and get tutoring. Yeah. We do so many things there. I don't even want to start mentioning. I'll forget them all. But now no strings attach with that church. It's nothing about you have to go to church there or you have to believe a certain way. They're just about being a part of community. Again, you're going to, I am because of who you are and let's enter into people's lives. Let's be available for them. And so that is now we've established two of those community life centers, which is way upstream. Those are prevention. Very few of those families that walk into our community life center are involved in child welfare, but if they don't get some services, they might soon be. So let's prevent that. Let's prevent them from going into that. So that growth all started, occurred around 2010, continued into 2015 and just continues to grow. Yeah. So is there like imagining the staff along the way and just the people of impact? Like is there some proudest moments or stories that you're allowed to share, either in your people or even unnamed clients or things like that, anything that really comes to mind when I ask that? Yeah. We have a young lady that gives us permission to talk about this, but she was former youth of our program way back in 2007, I believe. She is now our executive administrative assistant. Matthew's house couldn't operate without her and Nicole will tell you that she keeps us running. Yeah. And I think that we've hired a couple of other former youth and they were with us a couple of years, but you know the trauma kind of started triggering them again. I don't think they were quite ready to walk into that space yet, but they're doing well. I stay in touch with about 10 youth. I'm going to use to think the Matthews house is served in this last now 15. Well, you know, up starting in 2006 through about 2010, we worked with about 75 youth a year. Now we're working with 200 year. Okay. So I'm not that quick a math, whatever that comes out to be. Yeah. And we're serving. Yeah. And we're serving around 3000 total every year, including the families and all of that. Between all of our programs. You know, the other thing I think that I'm really proud about is, of course, we've had turnover, but we now have over eight employees that have been with us over five years. That's awesome. Some of them are 10 and I just met up with one of them that's gosh, I think he's been with us now six years. Yeah. Last week, he's become a family friend and we went out and did paddle boarding and, you know, I try not to bring up work, you know, because he's wanting to recreate and, you know, but he did say, wow, Jerry, I got to tell you about this family that I worked with that and is now totally self-sufficient. And I mean, he talked about the father who was, he showed up one time and the father was in the shower trying to get off of heroin, crying. And he said he asked me to walk in and help him. And he goes, he now has full time employment. All three of his kids have been returned to his family. And I told him, I said, Todd, as much as you want to talk about this, but, you know, I love to hear these stories. But he just went on about the culture. And he said, you know, COVID was really tough because as employees, we were so used to supporting each other and being there and having barbecues together and he said COVID was really tough, you know, Zoom is great, but it's still not human contact. And he said, now we're back just last week, over at our youth and family center, over here on Mason Court, they just started where all employees now are able to come back. You know, we still use CDC guidelines, you know, if we're indoors, but all of our staff have all been vaccinated and, but it's just exciting there having a barbecue this Friday. And he invited me to that and it'll be the first in person get together that they've had. But he said, you know, it's the culture here is so much about supporting each other as staff. And that was hard during COVID, not to have that, but yeah, lots of proud moments of our staff, just being asked to lead in national coalitions because of what they've done at the Matthews house and how they serve the people, the participants in our programs. Yeah, and, you know, I think the proudest thing right now isn't a cult. You know, we weren't real sure who was going to take my place. And Nicole, it's like I don't worry one bit. The culture is intact with Nicole. She has highly respected in our community. So that's one of the most recent things that I'm the most proud about is I'm still letting go. I'm not going to say I've let go completely, but I think I'm doing an okay job. And I have given each other permission because I did the board asked me to stay on for two years to write grants and to kind of mentor, you know, Nicole along the way. I would say the first six months, we probably talked daily after that have to say, Kurt, I probably had a little hurt feeling, you know, places operating very well without me. You know, it was one of those, it was a good feeling and I'm in a good place now where I'm just so proud of all of the staff. Well, and if you think about just like the magnitude of the organization and the impact that it can have, you know, compared to you and Sarah Hustlin and Grant Wright and and stuff, and now you got, you know, 50 plus people delivering services according to the Matthews house way, yeah, and that's pretty neat something to really be thankful of. I want to put you on a spot in terms of you developed a lot of like programs and policies and best practices and there's reasons people want Matthews house to be more places. Is there any like opportunities for the Matthews house way to to spread more around than Larimer County here? Is that still a nude linear? You know, we did, I went through a process to get our case management system trademarked and it's called Positive Futures Pathway and that is now trademarked. We have all of the collateral materials trademarked and all of that, it's ready to be replicated somewhere and I have not pursued it at this point, I feel like I would be available for anyone who wanted as a result. Somebody's got a big old chunk of seed capital out there and a lot of drive, right, let's bring this around the nation. Yeah. And you know, I just in Phoenix, Arizona, just a couple there at the RV Resort where we are, of course, we talk about what we used to do and all of that and she was saying, wow, we need that here in Phoenix, you know, and there are days I feel like, you know what? I just got to do this. I don't think I'm the person to do it. I would be very open to being a consultant. But you know, it needs to be someone that knows the Matthews house really, really well. You can't just look at the paperwork and know what kind of culture that is. But I don't see it happening right away. Yeah. That's kind of where I mean. Pretty young yet. If you travel for five years, we'll have you a second who knows their career or something. There we go. Maybe so. Well, I know that both you and I really have a desire to see, you know, that pathways be more utilized by more communities and so hopefully there'll be a spark that allows it to happen. And if God wants it to happen, it'll happen. It will. And we're working with an outside evaluator, Dr. David McVeigh at CSU, to try to take it to an evidence-based model. That would be necessary to get federal funding. I see. But I really like more state and county funding because they know more what our county needs and our state needs and the people within it. But we're taking the steps to make sure that if and when it is replicated, it is really ready and it's a proven system. Yeah. Well, thanks for doing that effort. Anything that you would share with, I guess, probably people that God has put a call on their heart to do something different, something good in their community, like the girls basketball program started or to start a non-profit enterprise or whatever that is. How do you hear that call or how do you respond to it? Is there anything that comes to mind with that question? No, I think, no matter what faith you have and hold dear as your spiritual component in your life. For me, I was really raised about church, about God, but not what is God's character, what is really the teachings of Jesus Christ. How do I be able to follow this? I literally know that He's impacting my life. It was more about just go to church, go to church, do these things, you know. And I remember, you know, studying about what it really meant to know God and who He is. And the love that is deep and broad and long, and I forget that scripture verse exactly. You've got to know that and the only way to know that is to know His teachings and to know Him personally. And I was going through that change when we moved here. And I knew that the calling was there after I met that young man in Old Town, but what I was doing was trying to delegate it to someone else. I don't know, I think, isn't there a guy that got a ride in a whale or something like that? Or God's call to you? Yes, exactly. And I remember coming back from Boulder, I had gone over, I used to work with USA Volleyball and their Junior Olympic program and I was returning back from Boulder, having trained some coaches when I first moved here. And I lived out at the time, I lived out by Richard's Lake and Long Lake is right there and the most beautiful sunsets happen there. I was driving back and I kind of looked to my left and I'm like, oh my goodness, I pulled off to watch the sunset there on the lake. And it was like God said, what are you waiting on? And it, you know, I don't hear God audibly, but I sense His spirit. Yes, that was Him that noise. I sense His spirit and I remember the Matthew's house actually is not because it was on Matthew's street. You know, I purchased that home and it took a good five to six months to get the program where we could open up the doors and Sarah and I would meet and this other young man named Adam that was going to be a part of it. We would meet and really pray about what is this supposed to be about. And so we didn't have a name yet. Live the victory is, you know, the corporate name that we filed our nonprofit, but we were going to have a DBA and, you know, we did a focus group and hope central or some of these names kept coming up and are like, yeah, no, I don't think so. And I remember sharing with Sarah and Adam. I just said, you know what, I'm starting to get cold feet. I know I'm supposed to do this, but I read today in Matthew that when you hear, be a doer. I knew I had heard, but I wasn't willing to step out and do. I was, but I was hesitant. And that scripture verse said, don't be like the foolish man who heard and then didn't act upon what he heard. And so I got home and Adam called me and he goes, Jerry, this is the Matthews house. And I'm like, oh, because it's on Matthew Street, you know, spelled with one T and he said, no, the verse you shared with us today is Matthew 726. The address of this house is 726, Matthews. Every time you walk through that door, you will know that you put feet, you put action to what you heard. And I didn't need any more convincing men. You know, it was like, God, I think you're going to hit me with a two by four next. I really want to wake up to your calling. And so I think that fear keeps us from doing. We will hear, but it's like, but what if I fail? And I think again, the Ubuntu principle just keeps coming back to me. So what? I mean, what's the statistic about what's his name, the baseball player that set the world record for home runs? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, how many strikeouts did he have just as many? Yeah. Or more. And it was one of those like, you know, if I do what am I going to lose my life? No, probably not. Am I, you know, going to lose a little pride? Yeah, maybe in my flesh, you know, want to succeed. But why do I want to succeed if it's not for the welfare of someone else? If it's not for wanting to be available and open to others, to affirm others. And so God had to do a real work of like, Jerry, you're afraid of failing. This is a pride issue here. This is a real pride issue. And I had to really wrestle with that. And so I had to step out knowing that there was no guaranteed success. But I knew that I was supposed to step out. The other thing occurred in my life is I financially was secure in my first marriage. God knew that in 2012, not only was I going to need a salary, I was going to need a place to live. We owned that house. And we also owned another big house out on the lake of which I said, I don't want anything to do with that. I want the house on 726 Matthew Street. I moved into that because everything was destroyed. My retirement fund was destroyed and I was literally down to $250 in my checking account. But I had a job and I had a place to live. God knew that I was going to need that. I didn't know that. And so stepping out wasn't just about helping other people. It was God providing for me in the future also. And so yeah, I think the only advice is if you're feeling something down deep in your heart, do your homework to say, okay, was this last night's pizza or is this for real? Is this something? And I always, Nicole, will remember this, even working with employees. If a director would tell me so and so, there was some behavior that wasn't right, I would say, is it a pattern or is this just something that just happened because of who knows? Maybe they had a fight with their husband last night or maybe something. If it's not a pattern, then work with this person. If it becomes a pattern that is now normalized behavior and it's affecting the organization and those we serve, then we have to do something about it. And so I think in not knowing for sure, look and be open to signs that confirm and affirm. When you get those signs and those are for me, just something down deep, but also interaction with other people, I didn't just start this on my own. I waited for affirmation from other people. I sought out Sarah's expertise. A little grant request. Yes, and it wasn't about me. It was about engaging with other people. Who maybe they didn't get the calling to start it, but they identified with the calling and said, I want to be a part of that. And to me, that's more important to gather those folks around you. Then I started going, all right, other people see this need also. There's a quote from Helen Keller that comes to mind and it's something like a loan we can do so little, but together we can do so much, something, and I always think of that. And also the thing I was thinking about when you're talking about scripture is, I think the most repeated phrase in the Bible is fear not, basically he doesn't want us to. So we always jump into faith family politics a little bit as we close to the end and you've kind of opened up the faith can already. I want to share anything more, maybe even about that moment or that period of time when it became church became less and about than a with or something. Yeah. You know the, how do I say this politically correct? You don't have to. I know there's a lot of great churches out there. So I'm not, I'm talking about what we have somehow taken Christ's teachings and put them into present day, practicality, behavioral Jesus, I think our mutual friend Aaron would call it in a new book. Yes, that's a great, that's a great way to put it. And we created these to do and to don't lists. And then we evaluated ourselves as believers in Jesus Christ on whether we were a good Christian and I don't see anywhere in scripture that he told us to do that. I mean, he knew what was in our best interest for our health individually, but also for us to interact with other people, the fruits of the spirit, you know, kindness, gentleness, self control, all of those are important for us to recognize that we need to develop those in our life. But he didn't say, and here's your Likert scale for you to take a test to patch yourself on the back and say, oh boy, you know, vlog yourself if you don't do well. Exactly the guilt part of it too. And I think I, I didn't go to church for three years, but I also recognize the importance of fellowship and being with people. But does that have to be on a Sunday morning? Does that have to be a Wednesday night? Yeah, does it. And you know, I don't know if I'm right or wrong as far as this goes, but I do know that I have grown closer to the teachings of Jesus Christ. I'm not saying I'm doing them all, but I've grown closer to what that means in my life in a practical way. Since I've got rid of my to-do and to-don't-list, I think I have more compassion for other people. I feel like I'm more inclusive with people because I can remember the days where if they didn't believe like I did, they were bad people. And I better stay away from them, you know. And so I think that everyone has their own walk. And it's going to look different. But I know that in the name of Christianity, we have put out there some guidelines and rules and that we think lines up with Christianity that can be oppressive to other people. It's a barrier to learning about. Yeah, and that's why the Matthews house, I had a brother-in-law that told me I was totally doing wrong by not putting this ministry under a church and not filing as faith-based. And I said, you know, what Jesus told me was go live these words. Don't write them on the walls everywhere. Don't put them up there for kids to try to meet up to that certain standard. Go live it. And then be ready to give an answer when those ask about your faith. And you know, kids have done that. And I would always preface it with, I'm not speaking for the Matthews house right now. You ask me and I'm sharing personally. We had a parole officer that came to know Jesus Christ just by watching some of our staff exhibit the fruit of the spirit. And they weren't doing it because they had wanted to put a star up on their bulletin board at their Sunday school class or whatever. They were doing it because it was real in their heart. So I think we have to be bold in what we believe, but not in a way that it offends or causes any type of exclusion of other people. And so that's how I've operated, that's how, you know, I had some... I remember in a moment when I think we went to the Blues and Blues Festival and tell you right, and I think I'm at least your second IPA in your life, I just so you know, what happens in tell your right stays in tell your right? Yeah, but hey, you know, you're having fun. And that was in the department as well. But it's like, it's okay to have two IPAs when you're hanging out with a musical festival in tell your right. Yeah. And you don't go home and put all this guilt on yourself, you know? Totally. It still says when she sees me drink a wine if we go out to a restaurant. Well, now I taught you better. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's the guilt. But that's how she was raised. You know, I don't fault her for it, but it was, you went to church every Sunday and if you didn't, you were bad. If you drank alcohol, you were bad. Because you were not married to bad, bad, bad. Bad, yeah, it was all this, yeah, chalkin' up. I remember at one church, I went to, you recited scripture verses and you got to put a star up on your, and there was everybody's name with their stars, you know? Right. So I was memorizing scripture because I wanted to start. I'm pretty sure Jesus said some things about not doing it that way. Exactly, yeah. And again, I am not condemning churches. There are amazing churches and, you know, Matt and I frequent church. Now we're on the road, so we don't have a local church. But you know, I just love to see the collaboration that the Matthews house has with the Genesis project and first Presbyterian churches. Well, and a handful of other churches like small home groups or family dinners or many, many churches here. And you know, I do remember one pastor calling me up early and he wanted to do a Bible study before they provided food for the kids. And I said, I'm sorry, I just, I want you to get to know these kids. Provide this meal for them and just get to know them. And he said, well, if we can't do a Bible study, we're not coming. And I said, I'm really sorry. But I just, I, we don't do it that way here. One of these kids may show up at one of your Bible studies, but that has to be on their own prerogative. I, I just can't allow something that has to be done before you serve them a meal. And, and you know, Kurt, that was only one incident in 15 years with churches. Everybody else was, can we just come love on these kids? Can we bring them some graduation gifts? Can we give them some gift cards? What is their favorite place that we, we want to give them a gift card where they'll just be so excited about it? So that was one incident in 15 years. Great to have so much community support and really people doing the right things for the right reasons. And I'm just really proud that you've activated your faith by doing and not by feeling guilty or, or rewarding yourself with gold stars when you do good things. Right. So, let's touch on family. Your, your second hubby just pulled up to pick you up from the podcast here. He's waiting patiently. Tell me about Matt and I know him a little bit, but like tell me about that love story because you were divorced for a little while, a couple years before you really dated to get that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We came to know each other actually through the internet, which I said, yeah, I said I would never do. And my daughter goes, well, where are you going to meet some decent men? Anyway, but I did. Yeah. I started dating right away and it was like God said, stop. You need to sit with your parents. I'm only going to give you losers. Yeah. He just said, you need to stop and sit with your pain and heal. You don't want to carry a lot of baggage. And so anyway, yeah, I, you know, dated after sitting for a year and a half, but you know, I have friends that set me up with different people and then my daughter talked me into going online and I just remember, you know, I met some men at coffee shops and that sort of thing. So I saw Matt's profile and he was with his son. He had his hat on sideways, making this funny face with his, I think, then probably 20 year old son. And I just thought he looks like a fun family guy. And so I don't even know Kurt back in the day if you did a heart or what you did, but he didn't respond. And I'm like, this is one guy I really want to meet. Well, long story short, he had gone off the site. And I guess he could still see, but he couldn't respond. So he said he had already flagged my profile. And so he said. He's like, am I going to pay the $10 a month to get back on? Yeah, he paid and got back on and I remember I was in Phoenix visiting my daughter and he had communicated, you know, would you like to meet? And I said, yes. So we had exchange phone numbers, but he wasn't in my contact list. And I was with my daughter and we were going to Sedona, Arizona, the beautiful red rocks. And I still remember because we call it our roundabout because on that roundabout I got this text and said, how about if we met for dinner on Saturday night? And I said, Jamie, I don't know who this is. And she goes, Mom, text back, who is this? And I'm like, Oh, okay, that's a good idea. So I did. And it was Matt. And so anyway, we scheduled dinner when I got back from Phoenix. And nothing fancy. We met at Red Robin, which is still our fun place now because that's where we met. And you know, I let him know that I was kind of dating, you know, around that, you know, I wasn't exclusive or anything like that. But the one thing that really I could tell he was special was he talked about his two kids and he let me know that he raised them as a single father. Oh, wow. And from the ages of like six to eight and eight, he had a daughter in the sun. And you know, he went into more details about how that happened. And then that was in June, early June, and father's day came around. And by then he had told me about his daughter, Chelsea. And he showed me a post and he actually teared up. And he said, I guess I'm kind of bragging, but this is what my daughter wrote. And it just went on about how he was her hero. And that being raised by him was such a joy and she went on and on and on. The other thing that I remember writing when I was going through my healing process was I would journal like I'm talking to God. And I'm like, okay, God, you know what kind of man I need. But I really need someone that's in the moment that recognizes a sunset that loves camping that loves to be out in the outdoors, you know, and so I remember Matt and I second date, he said, do you want to walk around CSU's campus? I had written also a guy that wants to just go for a walk for no reason. And he's literally said, I just my mom and dad walk together all the time. I just love to walk and look at nature. And I'm like, okay, I know he hasn't seen my journal. But we went on the walk and sure enough, the sunset was coming and he pulled me over between he said, look, you've got to see this. And he pulled me over to this opening and started talking about the sunset. And again, I'm like, oh my goodness. And then he and I went out to dinner with one of my dear friends, Sharon and Bill Lance. And I had gone to dinner with them with other men and she would just say, yeah, he's okay. But with Matt, before I even got back to my car, she goes, we love him. So anyway, long story, we met in June. We actually got married in October. So it was a short, it was pretty fast, but it was just like, he checked off all the boxes. No regrets, it seems. No regrets. He, my gosh, Father's Day was just last Sunday, both my daughter and my granddaughter text him and just said what a wonderful man he was and an example of a father. And so yeah, it's been a great journey of we, I remember knowing my mom and dad retired in an RV and did that. I knew that's what I wanted to do and he expressed that was his dream also. So we're doing that together and loving that he has two wonderful children. Kevin lives here in Fort Collins. We just got to be with him and his girlfriend. We paddle board two days ago, I think it was and I just love that kid. He is just such a caring, compassionate person. His daughter, Chelsea, at the time we were dating, told me that she lived in Phoenix. Well, you know, how big Phoenix is, that's where my daughter lives. They ended up meeting. They are best friends and actually live together now. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so it's been really good. That's pretty seamless relationship connection there. That's just amazing. For sure. So God bless you both. And I hope that you have 20 years more of traveling and RVing together. Yes. I'm willing politics. That's the last of the three closing topics. Do you want to share anything? I remember early the Matthews house journey were like, no, we're not taking any money from the government because they'll just mess it all up or whatever. And obviously that changed a lot over time in terms of funding opportunities and contracts and stuff. But tell me about kind of your perspective on it. We've been through a very tumultuous year. I mean, you picked a good time to be out on the road camping because you were too COVID impacted in comparison. But talk to me about just the place of the world right now and maybe what we can do to heal. Yeah. You know, when it comes to politics, I'm really not affiliated with either party registered. Most of my, most of my guests are not, it seems, it turns out. You know, I just, I really look for a candidate that is all about more about, and I don't even want to call it the trickle down and that everybody should have the same amount of money. It's not that. It's just more a candidate that understands that to survive as a nation. You need to take care of each other. We don't need to, I saw a quote the other day and I said, you know, it said something like this and I may be quoting it, but it said, when the power of love, yes, when the power of love overcomes, I'll get something of fear now, peace will come when the power of love is more important than the love of power. Oh, yes, yes. And you know, if a candidate is out there and you know, I think it becomes pretty obvious when power and control is the main thing, I don't do well with that and I'm more about a candidate that recognizes, there's a lot of things going on in our world that can be resolved not through complicated bills, but recognizing that every community is different. Don't impose this overall, everything the same to every community because there are things in our community here that are more important than others in Alabama, Arkansas. There are things there that in order for them to really, and I don't even want to use the term survive, but to live happily, they need things different than we need here. And so let the states, let the states do what's best for the states, but overall the federal should be willing to understand each state needs something different. And I don't want to oversimplify it, but I think many times we get this one nation and we're all alike. Yeah. You know, and I love right now the awareness that has been brought about inclusivity and about everyone being important. I've done a lot of study in Native American and you know, I look back on just the the travesty, well ongoing travesty, right. And sometimes those things that people are proud about America, I'm not so proud. Not so proud about some of the things that we've done as the United States of America. And I'm glad to see that there's an awareness being built. And so politically, I guess I'm about sovereign states, but also, and that's tough. That's really tough. I know in a grant, a federal grant that I wrote, you know, they, I had to list how many Asian Pacificers. And I'm like, okay, well, our community, we're serving all of them I can, all that we can, but you know, that doesn't fit us. And it was like they wanted us to be inclusive. Well, we can only be as inclusive as to what our community demographics are. But yeah, we do not, in any way, right, yeah, definitely, definitely, yeah. So it's, you know, that's why federal grants still don't fit us really, really well because we, number one, the Matthews House would probably have to hire someone just report on a federal grant. Now we have some federal grants that come down to the states, but we report to the states. They report to the feds. I'm not against ever writing a federal grant, but it would need to fit us in such a way that we can still keep our culture in place and do it the way we want it. Well, I think that's for me, one of the things that I hear you talking about with the states being different from one another, it allows them to be kind of a testing of best practices of what works in this state and what works in that. And if you put a $15 minimum wage installed in Alabama, you're going to wreck a lot of stuff where you might not even notice it in New York City. Exactly. Yeah. And different, different problems in those places. Right. All right. So solve the problems with as local of government as you can possibly solve them with, recognizing that people need help sometimes too. Sure. And I know infrastructure. I mean, you know, we've got to have our infrastructure in person. You're not an anarcho-capitalist or anything like that. Not too much. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But still, some of that can be resolved. Well, and like the school systems, when you really look at, you know, what to think instead of how to think. Yes. And that kind of goes back to that faith conversation and what churches have done. When they're all about what to think and not how to think, it's not as profitable for exactly existence. And that's within communities breaking down those silos. And you know, the school district I get, you know, they operate with attorneys telling them you can't do this and you can't do that. But there are ways we can collaborate. And I'll have to say this year, Puder School District has really stepped it up. They are, we are doing learning labs on their facilities now to help these youth that are so far behind. We just got dad a back and Nicole gave me that when we started these learning labs with kids who, number one, couldn't even do online school because they don't have a computer. Right. And if they did, they don't have internet and, you know, the school district stepped up and put some satellite, internet and places and all of that. But it was always hard to go onto their property when they have it set up perfectly for us to do that. But now they are welcoming us in with these learning labs. And so we, an average grade was 47% with the kids that we were working with in a lot of other classes. And in all of those classes, they have come up to 74%. Just in the last six months. That's amazing. And we're actually the Matthews house in coordination with Puder School District is having a graduation for those kids that missed out, being able to graduate. But they're now getting enough credits, Puder School District now recognizes our experiential and different offerings as credit. So kids can enter into our music program and receive credit. They can enter into our independent living skills program and receive high school credit. So again, when we break down those silos and we're quit being so risk averse, I probably take too many risks, but every time we get risk averse about everything, no, you can't come on because what if somebody got hurt on our property or whatever, you know, let's get that resolved. Yeah. What if I got run over by truck tomorrow? Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, locally, break down the silos so we can serve people in a way that that breaks down the barriers that they have. They want to succeed. But we put so many barriers in front of them that we make it impossible. Yeah. Well, we get them trapped in the system too. Exactly. Yep. Let's, did you come up with anything for the local experience and we'll let Matt take you home. The craziest experience you've had in your lifetime, whether it's nature or any business things, any, I guess maybe the God moments around the Matthews house formation. I don't know. Those come to mind. I do think of one experience being out in nature is my son and I were going to collect some Huckleberries in Montana and we were going through that he told me there could be bears and he knows that I do a lot and sometimes run and he said, Mom, if we come across a bear, you have got to promise me you will not yell and run and you will listen to me. And I thought, we're not going to come across a bear, you know, but sure enough, we're picking those berries and all of a sudden my son, he's, they call him the bear whisper. He said, Mom, there's a bear in the area, I can smell it. And I'm like, Oh, really? And then, you know, he, we heard this trumpling of the bushes and the stuff. And sure enough, a big old bear raised up on his hind quarters and was looking right at us and Troy very quietly said, Mom, do not make eye contact. I want you to stay very still and I want you to start backing up. You know, he is not going to charge us. We just need to get out of his area. And so he sure enough was talking to the bear and said, Hey, buddy, I'm sorry, I know these are your berries. We're getting out of here. And knowing the proximity I was to that bear, everything in me said to run. And I just kept, which is what, like 10 feet away or something, um, I would say probably more like 20 yards. Okay. Yeah. Which took him like two seconds to close on you, yes, exactly. So I, he said, don't turn your back, stay, you're walking backwards, Mom. And I'm walking backwards and we're slowly moving and the bear starts coming closer. And anyway, long story short, it seemed like eternity. I'm sure it wasn't more than 10 minutes, but the bear kind of raised up again and looked at us and Troy said, I will tell you when it's time to make a lot of noise. And you're going to scream at this bear and you're going to make yourself look big, but we're not there yet, Mom. Do it now and I'm like, okay, so we're slowly backing out and pretty soon, the bear lost total interest in us. And we were able then to turn around, you know, and actually, I don't know what time to make a bunch of noise. You didn't know. No, we didn't get there. We didn't get there. But Troy said, if he shows, I guess they'll do like a fake charge to see what you're going to do. But if they run, they'll get you and if you don't run, yeah. So that was a harrowing experience for me that I really don't want to repeat. No, I don't want to, I carry bear spray and I've learned from my sons how to recognize black bear and brown and grizzly bear. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And grizzly bears can have that big hump. Yep. That's right. Well, and the scat is especially important. The black bear smells like berries and it's kind of crumbly and grizzly bears, it smells like bear spray. Oh, it does. And yeah. Okay. That's no. Anyway. Okay. Appreciate you, Jerry. God bless you. I'm so thankful to have you on the podcast today and, you know, thank you for listening to today's episode of The Locoh Experience Podcast. This is your host, Kurt Bear, and founder of The Locoh Think Tank. If you or someone you know would be a great guest for our show, or if you'd like to learn more about our small business on our peer advisory chapters at Locoh Think Tank, please visit our website at locohthinktank.com or email us at connect at locohthinktank.com. That's L-O-C-O-thinktank.com. If you've been enjoying this series, don't forget to subscribe. We love great reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. And don't forget, always keep it low-code.