EXPERIENCE 6| Camron Lente and Ben Gates - Founder/CEO/Janitor and President/Class Clown at NG Companies

Welcome to the LOCO Experience Podcast with LOCO Think Tank Founder Kurt Bear. Listen in as Kurt digs deep into the business and life stories of business owners and thought leaders at different stages of growth from all walks of life. Launching and growing anything can be a crazy experience, so expand your thinking and level up your understanding of what it takes to find success in the world of free enterprise. Welcome to the LOCO Experience Podcast. Welcome back. Cameron Lenty and Ben Gates are joining me today. Cameron is the founder CEO and janitor of NG companies and Ben is the president and class clown at NG companies and you know I think what we'll do first is just kind of set the stage. Cameron why don't we start with you talk to me about what you're a day or maybe a week in the life of NG companies looks like and really set the stage for what is NG companies today? What do they do? Who do they serve? What are your customers? How many people are on your team? Things like that. Okay, day in the life of me and G companies is evolved dramatically, not necessarily good, good sense with that COVID seems like every day is a firefight, putting out problems, re-evaluating every different state that we go into, new regulations, rules, expectations, code to conduct built around COVID. And you get to review all that? You should make Ben do that. Oh, he does do that. Okay, good. I more just respond to the situation. Yeah. But what we do we're I guess an overarching thing would be we're just a service company. We do a lot of utility services, hydrovac services, oil and gas services. It's definitely evolved a lot more in the past year and a half into a little bit different industry, but we're a service company. Okay. And what's your you're the boss man? Yeah, what's that mean for you? Oh, man. Again, just a firefighter, it feels like lately, every day, every day lately. So Ben joined your team as the president after interestingly leaving a life of banking, which doesn't equip you really for a good job usually, but you would know, but to be the president of NG companies. And so what what does your job look like, Ben? And specifically, I guess probably what have you been able to successfully take off of Cameron's plate? Yeah. And what did you join? So joining the early 2019. Okay. And yeah, on daily basis, it's typically building teams. As Cameron said, you know, it seems like 2020 is putting out a lot of fires. Right. And that's how we both have jobs. If there were no fires, there'd be nothing for us. And filling gaps in teams probably on COVID nation, right? That's that's a big part of it. You know, when we were talking offline that we've got, we were wearing different hats a lot right now. And so, you know, for right now, I'm kind of interim CFO as well and helping out there and helping build a new controller. And so it's a lot of managing of teams, trying to manage operations, you know, from the top down, you know, find where the gaps are and plug those. We have, we have purchased two companies this year. We have started two additional companies this year, you know, brought on division managers in those companies. We bought into another company, Minority Own Business. Interesting. So we've been doing a lot. And then as you do those, there's obviously regulatory issues to deal with banking issues. You've always worked so much harder than I ever have been. Listen, you don't have to rub it in, man. You get paid a lot more than I do, too. Well, I hope $12 an hour is a lot. It gives it $12.50. Yeah, so you get time and a half for overtime, I'm sure. It's true. Yeah. But what's your team look like today with not like maybe exclude the Minority Own Business and things like that? But what's the operational elements? Maybe the divisions who you serve in these various service companies? Yeah, so maybe we could start with our team. You know, Cameron is the visionary of our organization and you know, having a banking background, we tend to not be visionaries. You know, we tend to take the information in front of us and do something with it, you know? Now, you and I are probably a little bit more entrepreneurial, but that's why we liked it. Yeah, that's what we liked each other. That's true. That's what we came friends and both got out of it, right? But but some some habits, you know, die hard. You tend to be kind of the numbers and data driven guy. And so Cameron's our visionary. He's the guy who's thinking 10 years ahead. He's constantly that guy. And so my position is to help figure out what his what that vision is and actually carry it out and actually and do the the back end stuff and then and divide that and conquer it. So your core team, your core divisions and stuff are mostly reporting to you to keep the real brush friars off of Cameron on a day-to-day basis, theoretically. Yeah, yeah. And I see a raise a eyebrow there, Cameron, like, yeah, poor, poor Ben is not as raised as a goal. So and then just kind of the structure team again, again, Cameron's the visionary, he's he we follow him. And then I take that I do something with it. And we haven't we have had head of operations. We had a head of finance. Unfortunately, that that position has been vacated. So I'm kind of stepping in there, which is, you know, fortunately, have a finance background set. It helps. And then and then we have kind of a division manager over our hydrovac division. It's big enough. It represents two thirds of our entire revenue. And hydrovacking is like sucking dirt out of. Yeah, Cameron, you want to explain what hydrovac is? That's two thirds of your overall revenues is hydrovacking. Yeah. Okay. That's different than when we first met. But in the past nine months, everything has changed dramatically. But yeah, I mean, hydrovac all this is the best way to simplify it is think of a pressure washer and a shop back. I mean, you use a water lance to disturb and soften up the soil and kind of turn into mud and then you suck it out of the hole and then transport it off. Kind of like rich, rich stuff. It sounds like like the things that can go under the ground and create their own tunnels and suck it out of there. Yeah. So yeah, it's good for you, you totally locates all the soft excavation is kind of becoming. How big a tube is it? It's an eight inch tube. Okay. And then you can, you know, of course, get down to two inch. Okay. It's just a big, a big shop back essentially. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So a big high direct vision. And then what other services do you guys provide? Yeah. So right now, our hydrovac division is again, going back to Cameron's vision. He he had the vision actually when I came on last February. Yeah. I remember when you're just talking about it. Right. Yeah. We wanted to create a national brand for hydrovac services. And so at the time, when I came on, I don't remember exactly. I think we had, you know, four to six of these trucks. And and now we have, you know, almost 30 of these trucks. Oh, wow. Okay. And how many states are you operating in? Yeah. So seven is a seven or eight? Seven is a seven. Yep. There you go. So stay tuned for next month. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We'll be at 51. So I want to set this up actually a little bit interesting way because when I first, actually, I have, I have some credit due to pass along to both of you guys. Cameron, when I, when you and I first got acquainted, you had grown maybe until like a maybe a five or 10 million dollar company in a matter of years. You were, I think not even 30 yet. And I was like, you can't be in local think tank. You're, you're kind of too big and complicated already. But, but I'm going to work, I'm going to start a next level chapter for the bigger and more complicated businesses. And then Cameron came around and he did come to a greeting meeting for that next level chapter when we launched in the spring of 19. But you've grown so much already that you were like five times as big as the next bigger guy. And I was like, well, I can't keep up. I can't create a bigger, bigger chapter still. I don't have enough bandwidth. So I've known you to just really be evolving and changing in your company. I'm sure there was a lot of shrinkage this year in that regard. And then Ben, so local think tanks, deep roots probably go to old town Tuesdays, which Ben was a fellow banker and crashed my bank sponsored network. Why not? On a regular basis and came and played pigpog and pool and stuff. It's about making friends. It was. And we hit it off right away. And, and then later when I had abandoned that and abandoned banking and stuff, your bank that you worked for that you were the president of was like, we'll take over old town Tuesdays and make it Tuesdays. Yep. Yeah. Change the name same exact process. Yeah. That's what it is. And that's really where you and I met. Yeah. Was one of those old town Tuesdays things. So there's like all these weird points of connections here. Let's talk about, let's go back to the founding story of NG company camera. And I want to get you some some great story. And because I do remember bits and pieces of that, but I haven't heard it very well. But, uh, but talk to like, how did, where did you come from just a little bit? Like, what was your educational background or what jobs you'd had and stuff? Because that really helps set the stage for I started this company. Yeah. As far as education background, um, all I went to high school. Yeah. I went to rifle high, which is probably the equivalent of like an eighth grade. I'm from North Dakota. And I think eighth grade is really stretching it. So I mean, yeah, about eighth grade education. The day turned 18, I started the oil field drilling oil wells. Never really had any aspirations of owning my own business, but I'm very competitive. I don't like losing at anything. So one day, my brother actually brought it to me. He's like, hey, you know, don't tell anyone, but I'm starting my own business. And, you know, of course, the competitive side of me is like, okay, I'm going to start my own business because I can do that too. So while I was out working at the time, I was working for neighbors drilling. We were throwing a stone trash away and a bunch of recyclables fell out and I was like, you know what? The oil field needs a green appeal. So I'm going to start a recycling business to give credits and, you know, this green appeal to the world you get, desperately needs it. Right. So I started a recycling business. And for the next two and a half years, I spent sifting through 30 yard dumpsters full of food waste, plastic bottles, pallets, and then I just figured out a recyclable part. Yeah. So really, we're about 85% of all the trash I figured out a way to recycle it. So for instance, there would pallets I would take and put into a wood mulcher and I'd grind it up to to make sawdust. And then I'd use that as a additive for cuttings to slitify their cuttings. Okay. So on a drilling rig, as you drill a hole, dirt and debris comes out of the hole and it's it's muddy and oh, so you can do it all right on site there. You can or did you haul it away and grind it up and bring it back? I ground it up and I sold it back to the drilling company. Right. So I ground it up and so it was just like a binding agent that absorbed some of the liquids and then bound the cutting so they could stack them and haul them off the location. So I used that the pallets for there. I ground up all their like a card. Were people doing this? No, you were doing it. You just made this shit up. Yeah, it just made it up. And there's like craft bags that they had all their their chemicals in that they put down holes like bent-night, bare-right, all these chemicals that they they use for the formations that they're going through and different characters. Okay, so like it's almost like a different either chemical or water mixed compound to get to me different kinds of geographic type structures. And that's that's the majority of the compound or the majority build up of all the trash was these these craft paper bags essentially. So I took those and I ground them down through a paper shredder which evolved. Yeah, where did you buy the paper shredder? Oh my god. Originally I started out cutting. I'm not even joking. I took scissors and I cut it and I put it through a paper shredder like an office paper. Yeah, like an office max. Yeah, and I found you saved up enough money to go down to Albuquerque, New Mexico. And I bought a a post office old post office. Yeah, a paper shredder. Sure. Cause like five grand and I thought I was going to bankrupt me at the time. Right. And then I was just I spent. How old are you right now? 20. Yeah, yeah, this way. Yeah, like 20, 21, yeah. Okay. So I spent hours and literally four, like four, 30 yard dumpsters full of these bags. And I was just feeding them one by one through this paper shredder and waiting for them to shred. Until I got, it was like 40 yards of material. And then I would take that and I'd sell it back as LCM to the rig. So LCM is lost circulation material. Okay. And so that's the stuff you mix in with the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, with the bigger less juicy. Yeah, with your drilling mud. So as it goes down hole, there's little. I've got to wait with where it's been. I see you. Appreciate it. Just mix it into the juicy state and make it less juicy. Yeah. So as you're drilling, you have little holes that, you know, some of your, your mud might seep out of. And we would send this material down and it'd pack off those little holes. Sure. So it doesn't keep running into the hole. It doesn't keep seeing the pipe out in there and whatever. Yeah. Actually, can we do an education in two minutes or something on just, when we talk about finding oil in weld county or in northern Colorado or whatever, can you give just people that don't really know a primer on what that looks like? What like the process of finding it drilling it? Maybe that's a four minute thing. But either way, I think it's useful to people because people, we don't know where our gas come from. You know, it used to just come from Saudi Arabia. Yeah. That doesn't which, I'm sure we'll touch on those topics later. But so, but can you just, yeah, make me smarter about the oil industry. And I can, I can sum it up into a, a shorter version so we can fit the, the two minute or four minute. So essentially, people will come out and they're called thumpertruck. So it just sends down waves to see what formations are you go out, these people check to see what formations are. Sometimes it's porous, it has a bunch of oil in it. Sometimes it's just hard rock, whatever. And we know different formations hold the oil that we're looking for. So we know what formations we're drilling into, which ones are the pay zones, where, you know, what yields the best return and kind of like a historical data. Can you just move in the thumpers come out? Yeah. Oh, yeah, thump it. I mean, actually the rabbit is like, yeah, they drive around like there's oil here. They drive around and they kind of figure out where the formations are, where the oils are, where the oil is. And then they'll come back. They do the permitting process, which, you know, takes forever. They'll come back, do all your mandates. Everything that you can do will come out clear a pad, set a drilling rig, drilling rig will go down, go to that formations, your pay zone. So it'll figure out where it's at. Okay. And a lot of the, a lot of the technology. So it's like a certain depth. It's a certain distance, whatever. Yeah. So you know where your TD is. So you know where the total depth, total depth is. So you know, you'll come down and you'll kick your dog leg off. It's just when, when you go and go horizontal. Yep. So a lot of the wells that we do now, just because of, you know, different technologies and you can yield a lot more. It's as a horizontal well. So it's a different zone. It seems like so like go down and then across and then all the stuff that drips out of the stuff above it can kind of be. So normally we'd go for like a zone, like, you know, figured putting a straw down into a ball. Right. You get only what's there. Right. Now when you're fracking, you can crack it, but still it's just that much. Yeah. So it's now what we can do is we can go down and go across different formations and different pay zones so we can access more with a smaller footprint. So it's, it's reducing your footprint from, you know, above ground surface. Which they're all about right. Yeah, absolutely. When nobody wants a bumper in their backyard. Yeah. Yeah. But the oil up from underneath my house, that's fine. Yeah, they want the pay, but they don't want that. Yeah. So we can go down and hit different formations and different pay zones and extract that with a smaller footprint. And so less, you know, and that's most of the industry. You drill a hole. You put a thing across and then are you like constantly fracking it? No, no. So fracking is just a stage of the process. Yeah. So we'll drill up and then it runs out for a while. Yeah. So we'll drill a well and then we'll we'll set casing. So casing is, you know, when people say, is it getting into my water table and to my, you know, it's, it's just leaking out everywhere underneath us. So that's not the case. We'll go down and we said more like your sewer line. Yeah. So yeah, we, we plumb that well afterwards. So we'll put steel piping in the ground that keeps it from seeping out and then we'll actually see meant. So we'll pump cement down and then it'll return around and in, in case the exterior of it. So the interior is still still still still still still still still and then the exterior will be concreted and then on the concrete. It's just like an extra protection if it just stays on there and then you leave it behind when you're done. Yeah. And then you'll set plugs coming out and then a workover rig will come in, drill those out and then you'll set your frack crew up and your frack crew comes in and just perforates the well. So if you know a pay zone, you'll, you'll, yeah, so you have an L shape. So you'll, you'll come down and do different zone. So you'll frack different zones of the well. So you'll, you'll come in, you'll perforate it and then you come back sometimes the well starts to slow down a little bit, you frack a new zone or whatever. Yeah, you can rework it. You can frack a different zone at a different pay zone as, as technologies and, and ultimately it's just like this stuff kind of pools up down there and you put it up to the top and, you know, there's a bunch different lift processes. I mean, you can do a pumping unit. You can do natural gas lift. This is a power like a natural gas pump of extra gas that's squeezing out. Yeah. Yeah. There's a bunch of different lift systems, but yeah, you go down. Clearly, I'm learning all about this right now. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm trying to keep like the, but I could read all kinds of articles about it, but us talking about it for like four minutes makes me understand the whole thing better. And it may be worth, worth noting as well, like when, when camera talks about, you know, having a well pad and they go down and they, they, they drill, you may have, you know, four to what 14 or 20 wells on that pad. And so, so you have one going this way and one, the opposite way. So you have a bunch going on all sorts of different ways. The three-dimensional and five-dimensional kind of world. Absolutely. It's not just one, just going down and then you punch somewhere else. You know, you've got these figures. I didn't make those turns. I guess that's the hydro technology, right? Oh, no. So actually, I know. How do you make the turns is, so, because you can't get down with a pipe wrench and make it, right? So on your drilling assembly, it's called a BHA, your bottom hole assembly. And at the, the base of it, you have a mud motor and a tool face. So it's got a slight bend in your, your BHA that when you weight it up, if you pressure it. So, oh, if you push it, it bends itself into an angle. I think you're taking a spoon. So like, if you're spinning it, it'll slowly be moving all the material out and up. And then if you stop spinning the spoon, it's got a little bit in it. And you pressure it. It'll slow the bend. And then you can you spin it again or you can do spin it down there. So when you're, that's a pretty handy little tool. Yeah. So when you're, when you're drilling, you know, the directional drill will come out and, you know, try to, you know, say, turn five degrees this way and, you know, all right, slot, you know, you'd be doing a slide. And then you'll start spinning again and then you'll slide and then spin. So you slowly make your curve and then you get out and then you start spinning. Yeah, it's not like a 90 degree L. I mean, it's a long, you know, process. Yeah. Yeah. It's, well, it's an on-ramp more than it is a bright actor. Yeah. That's a good analogy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. So that's the, that's kind of the kind of overall thing. Yeah. But you guys don't do that necessarily or do you do something? No, no. So our services consist of once it gets, so the well head after they're done, they frack it, they're getting ready for production, that well sitting there, then we will come in and hook everything up. So essentially, we plum in a line to get from that well head over to a separator, which then separates gas, water, and oil. And then we plum in everything from the separator over to the facility, which is then it holds your water, it holds your oil, and then it sells your gas. So your gas will go out like a meter that's just like going through. It's what it's called to meter house. It'll hit your meter house before it goes into a pipeline, which then gets shipped down line and gets treated and sent out. And is that most of your other services then in addition to the hydropack? Not a circle back to the actual business story. Yeah. So we'll build the whole facility and there's a bunch of different services aligned with that on the oil and gas side. So we'll do remediation reclamation so we make it look like the well is never there. But yeah, our hydropack side will assist in locating those lines while we're doing that work, and then our other side is like distribution gas. Okay. We're getting too much into the modern day, but that does help me to understand where you evolved to from. And so let's get back to like I'm getting 40 hours at a time with my scissors at my office max, that's right. All of quickly because we have ADD. Well, mainly I have ADD. But yeah, we we'd all started because LCM you were talking about LCM. So we used to grind paper bags up. So essentially for the first two to three years of my company, I dig was digging through trash. It was another most glamorous job by any sense. But yeah, we just we sifted through that. We'd sift through food waste, separate that for compost and grind everything else up. And from there, we really just evolved into the different services as we saw appropriate on location. Talking about so the next step, you know, after that, you know, I think these are classic entrepreneurial stories of somebody who's just scrappy. So then what happened? Yeah, so I mean, this is the part that I'm always reluctant to tell customers, because we can leave out the juicy details. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, I tell them to this day, because we're 11 years in business now and they know we're kind of past the point of me just being a 21 year old, you know, BS in your way. Everything on how to do the business. But so while we were doing the trash services, one day we're driving up to location, and they were doing a pipeline. And mind you, my only experience in the oil and gas part of this point was was drilling oil wells. And now I'm doing recycling, which I've never done in my life before either at this point. So now I'm running recycling business and I'm driving by and I see a pipeline. So I'm like, I am cool. I need more revenue because I'm barely breaking even what I'm doing. I'm digging through trash all day, which sucks. So let me solicit these guys on this pipeline. So I come out again, and I use the downturn to my advantage. At this point, everyone had equipment sitting because it's 2009, 2010 natural gas just took a bath. It went like $11. It went to $11. It went to $11. They went at like $2. I'm a wheat farmer's kid. And that's like going down from like $3 wheat is kind of what you need to make a living. Yeah. That would be like we going down to like $0.45. Yeah. We need gas really like $3 to $4 to really make sense. Oh gosh. You know, we can make just can't even handle it under five barely. So, you know, I used that to kind of my advantage as driving by and they're doing a pipeline. Like, hey, you know, I was like, I have all this equipment to do this. I do pipeline all the time. I have that equipment in my yard. I can come out and help you with this. You don't actually have this equipment. No. Anything to sit around as you tell cameras got a deep voice. And he's always had this deep voice since he was a teenager. So, so he's never do. Hey, guys, let me do this. Right. And you're 23 years old. No, I'm 22. So, 22? Yeah, 22. And maybe 22. I might be 21. I don't know. My memory is very short. And it's not from all the hard drugs and booze. No, none of those things just stress. Stress really shortens my memory. But as driving by and they're doing a pipeline, I'm like, okay, it's like, I can do this. Like, oh, no, you have the equipment? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all sitting in the yard. I'm just looking to get a busy. Like, cool, come out and build a pad for us. You know, we need to do this. Oh, oh, yeah. I build plenty of pads. What size of equipment would you like to see? Like, what's your specs? Yeah, like, oh, you're like, bring out like a D7. Plenty of D7 sitting. I don't know what the fuck that is. So, I, you know, I got it. I got a smaller than a D8 because the D8's bigger. Yeah, so I'm like, yeah, totally got this in the yard. So, as soon as they left, you know, they gave me the job. I googled how to build a pad. Did you talk price? No. God, no. I was like, oh, yeah, it's like we're fine. And they asked, well, they asked, like, well, have you submitted your pricing? I'm like, yeah, no, I'll give it procurement, but I'm pretty sure I put all my equipment pricing in there. I didn't at the time. And I don't know how I figured that out, but I probably undercut myself significantly. So, yeah, I went on Google in YouTube, and I said, right, I searched where to rent a dozer, how to rent a dozer. Oh, I thought you were just going to steal it from these guys and sit around. Oh, yeah, no, I went and rented one. Yeah, I wish I could. I tried. You did it on the up and up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, actually, I thought you'd just go to one of these guys. You knew how all these equipment sit around. You're like, chicken and bar your dozer. Oh, I did do that. So, even one of my buddies is just in car and hand. They have JC excavating. They used to do a lot of that. Shout out to Justin. Yeah. Go to the sponsor of the local experience podcast in the future you can. There you go. So, I even reached out to him at a later point and asked them to get engaged and help us out because clearly, I have no idea what I'm doing. But yeah, I rented a dozer, and first time I ever sat, and one was when I rented one, and then I went out and built a pad. As I did this, you know, I'd always, everyone was leaving. I'm like, oh, yeah, I see you guys tomorrow. And like, all these company people leave. And I would stay back and keep working because I was like, oh, shit, I'm never going to get this done in time. So, yeah, I acted like I was leaving. Everyone would leave and I'd drive back and keep working at night time. You'd go around, yeah. I'd go around back. Yeah, to try to figure out how to get this flat and I'm just reworking material, reworking material. And yeah, this is kind of like the natural progression of the company. It is just everything to this point has been like that. I'm like, yeah, I know I can totally do that. Oh, God, what am I doing? And then now I get to the point where I just hire the professionals because now we have enough money to actually hire professionals so I don't have to go out and Google figure out how to do whatever. Whatever we're doing to be the heck of a tool. It really is. So tell me about the first one, two, three, four employees. Like you're, because you're huckin' it, right? Like the first, sounds like the first couple of years, you're kind of just huckin' at Jack of All Trades, whatever I could do for a book. This is going to sound awful. I hope so. This is the local experience podcast. Okay, so we want to hear those crazy experiences that formed your journey. So how I got my first couple of employees is, well, you know, at first this spot, he works. I couldn't really employ people full time. So I went to the halfway house and I just went in and I'm like, all right, line him up and I'm like, that one looks strong. I'll take him. That one looks strong. I'll take him. Ben is cracking up here. So that that's really how it started. I had a bunch of comics for those guys. Yeah, they loved it. They loved it. So was that because you wanted to, like, give those guys a chance? Yeah, absolutely. And it wasn't because you just couldn't get anybody else to work for you. No, well, I mean, how many other people want to dig through garbage? Well, this was an after-recession time, right? This is still after-recession time, though. But I think it shows your heart. Like, this is an oil guy that's all about recycling, that's all about turning around people that haven't had all the advantages. Oh, yeah, it really still feels just day, yeah. For sure, I employ a lot of people that have felonies because, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, we're a big company. We can't employ you. I'm like, I'm all about second chances, you know, everyone makes mistakes. I think that's so awesome. Yeah, I want to get into that. So I'm going to write that down and we're going to come back around to that. So talk to me about the first two plays a little bit more. What are their names? Joe Winshuffle and Kenny. Oh, God, Kenny. I just always call him Kenny. I don't know his last name is. It's going to be cool. Kenny, you're awesome. Yeah, thank you, Kenny, for making Karen the way. Man, he is today. Yeah. So I went in there and, you know, I, I, you know, shamelessly is like, oh, that one looks strong and that one looks strong. I'll take both of them. Did you say just strong or strong as smart or strong and honest or? No, I didn't say that. I said, they look strong. I said, yeah, I need people to help me out right now. I mean, I'll call an ace and ace. And I was just like, those guys look strong. Right. And they worked for me for four or five years after that. And why did that have to be strong? Are they moving concrete around and stuff? They're digging through trash and they're, they're all right. They're helping me move by run equipment. Yeah, just a pallet through this giant ass shredder. Yeah, just a bunch of random things. So I, I want someone that's going to hurt their back in first two days. Yeah, look at me. I couldn't be really. Didn't need a banker. Yeah, no, no, no, no. And I'm not that big to be honest. So I need someone else to help out because I've been doing it all by myself. My back's hurting at this point. Right. You look strong. Help me out. You look strong. Yeah, I'm going to have you guys do the things that hurt me when I do that anymore. Yeah, yeah. So that was my first two employees is Kenny and Joe. And it is, it is great. You know, they, they, one of the, the opportunity, they got out of the halfway house and, you know, they even came in on the weekends and helped out tremendously because they just didn't want to stay in the halfway house. Like, hey, can you say we're working? We'll, we'll come in and detail your trucks and, and clean the shop and do all this. We just want to go back to that way. So I was like, okay, yeah, come on in. So they worked for free on the weekends and just to stay out and then when they got done, they'd watch netflix on the computer. Right. Just to stay out, yeah. Well, it sounds like a, one of my favorite phrases or I'd like to share is that I look at think tank, we look for the win, win, win, win. Yeah. But if we can, if we have to settle for the win, win, win, we're okay. Yeah. So I love that heart. And I want to come back to that topic for sure. Okay. I wanted to go right now in part just to give Ben some air time because I'm so patient, he's laughing and stuff. But I actually want to, so I want to, we've kind of learned a little bit about you and who you've become. Although we're going to get into the, some of those journeys too. But Ben, where did you come from and who are you? And then camera, we're going to come back to you. But let's talk about you at that same age, that 21, 22, 23. Maybe like the journey to college. I was in a rock band, 21, 22 and 23. Yeah, I know what. What kind of a rock band? Like a dorky banker? Yeah, rock band. I think hardcore rock band. Poland's mighty cavalry is what we call it. Poland's mighty cavalry. You've heard that camera. That was the name. Poland's mighty cavalry. We thought it was a very interesting visual. Right, it makes me think about Nazis like overrunning the Poland's mighty cavalry. With their cavalry and the Poles are like all these horses and they're shitting up bodies, pegs. We thought that was an interesting visual. No, so I grew up here. Really, I got here when I was five years old in the Colorado, four columns. What's your genetic heritage? You're a very attractive man. Man, I've been white. I think the most I have is Scottish. You know, the Benjamin Gates. So yeah, well, the Gates are, I think, the British, you know, the English and the English. And they grab some Scottish gal that made her there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so yeah, McGregor was actually family name. So we're a bunch of regular. Yeah, Miss Fitz and Rebels. I think that's a really cheap Scotch, isn't it? Yeah, that's great. Is that what we're drinking? I think that's good stuff. So yeah, I grew up here and my dad's a civil engineer, a professor at CSU. Yeah. And a very stable family. Good people. And so, you know, one of two siblings, my brother and I, older brother. And he's incredibly studious. He was the kind of guy that would read his textbooks the year before, the summer before class. His great guy ended up being a surgeon. Still is. It was a great dude. And then Jeremy Gates. He's a surgeon up in. Jeremy from spending a fair bit of time around your brother. I can tell that he thinks the world of you. Yeah, you're a pretty cool guy. So could you keep fixing people and serving the world? Yep. Yeah, yeah. Shout out to Jeremy. So actually, what's your moment? Actually, we call a corporate doctor. The corporate doctor. Cameron has called him many times. So he's always on payroll. We don't pay him anything, but, you know, corporate doctor. Right. Win, win, win. Yeah, when Win通's where you think he might have the COVID. That's it. We're going to get stabbed in the stomach with glass. What? It's all other stories. Okay. We might have three hours. By the way, we're totally going to finish that bottle of scotch. I'm happy to know. There's no way that we are not. Meeting after this is going to be very interesting. Oh, yeah. Don't say anything stupid. Keep going, Ben. Yeah. So, yeah, family here grew up here. Went to school here and, and again, brother, very studious of father very studious. My brother's a doctor. My dad has a PhD. He's a doctor. So two doctors and then I was the doctor of rock and roll. So right all doctors What was your role as a band base guitar the most handsome of all of the musicians right well And the guy that really didn't have the much talent. Well, it's usually the base But he was usually the cutest because he pulled the girls. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, she's I didn't happen to me So I must have been doing anyway, so I grew up in this area and then you don't want to school here Yeah, which CSU went one semester. No, I think it was two semesters bummed out Academic probation. Oh, it was them. They're myself. Yes, then man. Yeah, so you know, I just It was interesting. I started I got out of high school. I tell my my professor father That I don't want to go to college. I might as well just rip his heart out right? So you're gonna be a band. Yeah, you know dad I'd like to take six months off. I'd like to play a base guitar and a rock band and you know my my professor Scholarly father, you know, I'm gonna look at across us. This is the best thing I've ever heard. Yeah, exactly So so I decided to you showed him by yeah, by messing it out myself Exactly. I'll show you how waste your tuition money. Thanks dad. Well, so actually that's that's fun comparison in our families because my dad said right before college son The farm is in a place now where we could help you with your education But I don't think it'd be the best thing for you Pay for it yourself. Yeah, he probably should have said that but your dad probably should have said take a year off Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, whatever all of life is filled with you know hindsight being 2020 right always always always you know It was an idea eventually and so So I had to you know, I had to rebel and get on app academic probation and I ended up working at guitar store here in Fork Island spotlight music That's about two or three years. Yeah, yeah rob curses. He's got out in business. He is I'm assuming so I think I think maybe they move more to online right now because of COVID. Yeah, but You know, I actually I actually credit that for my the spark of Interest in small business awesome, and I didn't know what that was gonna turn into at the time I just I just knew this this small business thing is intriguing. Yeah, so thank you Rob cursing the Curse you can Hey Rob. Yeah, and so Unfortunately for him I said hey Rob, you know, I think I actually do want to go back to college. I've been playing bass guitar Oh gosh, I think one time was it five bands. What was the biggest what was the biggest show that you ever played as a band? Oh, the biggest show like how many people can you know, I think we had a show where like 350 people showed off and you were the headline absolutely not Backup band to the backup band. Yeah, yeah, I think a project 86 played and and we open for them as you know, okay, or hardcore band Sorry, anyway, so um Yeah, so a kind of industry in small business decided to go back to college because I think I just needed a mature You know, I needed that that ability to Well, you probably didn't have to shave until you were mid 20s, right? Yeah, there were 30s So so decided to go back to college and then yeah, it's interesting when you actually want to go Your tree can actually want to put in some effort and so All things in life, isn't it? Yeah, it really is and so decided actually I went to front range and I got my you know My prerequisites out of the way you know and and for me sometimes those those those small victories Are really beneficial and so being able to say okay, I got my two-year degree. Yeah, it was was just a milestone And so that's just kind of why I shout out to front range community college Thank you for supporting the community, but especially The SBDC the Lermak County SBDC like it's awesome what you do absolutely so I I still remember several of the professors that were over there and can I give a shout out to anybody? So I'm like I know all of their names another or so all their faces and other names But but anyway, yeah, so so did that then then decided to go actually back to you and see You were there. Yep. Yeah, and with a car and and that's when I sort of fell into this finance I knew I wanted to do business. Yeah, and so fell into finance I always like you know math and numbers and and so that that was intriguing and did that I Spent the first year and a half doing all of my core classes and I came in the last semester to my Advisor and said hey, you know, I'd like to take this 400 level class this 500 level class, you know all these stuff and they said yeah Sorry, you got to take 21 hours of electives You know, so so spent the last semester taking history of space flight and history of rock and roll I took the history of America popular music there My was totally different mine after four and a half years. I could have been A graduate, but then I was like wow I could get a double major if I go for another six months and I was like wow I could get a minor in business Another six months, but Root history of American popular music that was we learned a lot to be not I don't think I worded anything I was in my learning period of life at that time. I finally got to this point where I where I wanted the core I wanted to meet potatoes and I actually felt a little disappointed and that's that's nothing against you and see I think that's just a disappointment with with higher education in general I think it's become more of a business and that's okay. That's a whole other podcast probably right, but it was a means to an end and Particularly I met a man easy student loans has destroyed our university system pre-college will totally Yeah, fuck it up and anything free is the same. Yeah, you get what you pay for right? Right. You always get what you pay for We'll get into we always end the podcast the last probably 20 30 minutes are always Faith family politics Man, we're gonna have some fun. Yeah, baby the local experience podcast is going to be like included into the intellectual dark web Eventually and it's because we don't shy away from conversations that at least touch on oh, yeah No, I don't have figured out. I don't think any of us are shy of it. Oh, yeah, right. So, but we're not gonna get there yet I want to shift back to you. So Ben actually Ben Stred and North this point of life Yeah, I'm sure the North The North based guitar Went back to college. You're not married yet or anything like I got married my last year of college. Maybe it's the last semester And your wife is like a The best I don't know what like the best quietest nicest sweetest like she's Mary the mother of our savior Yeah, that's sweet Katie. I think you're I think the world of you Yeah, she's a she's a sweetheart and and her family's been in this area for a long time They've got successful businesses and really great people. I think you know Lisa Clay Sure. Yes Lisa shout out. Yeah, Lisa and Scott Colorado forever going to buy three board. I haven't seen her in 10 plus years Yeah, heck of a heck of a person her and that's your mother-in-law. Well, no, so Lisa is my wife's aunt Yep, exactly called you're off to yep, yeah, absolutely and and so Scott Van Olsberg my father-in-law actually was running the company Advance and he stepped down. Oh, okay tired. Oh, goodness. I don't know. I don't know if it's advanced. Thank these days Lisa and Jim Clay they are they are yeah, so still still rocking roll my brother-in-law is there and and he's running All the sales department and all that kind of thing so super cool. Yeah, so that's really cool So they're really tied to the community and that's been great. No, I was gonna tell one last thing I'm gonna drop up one one boy name as I'm as I'm wrapping up college. I took this There was one class I decided to take and it was bank management There's my last semester and there was a guy named Lee Roy Levitt and Leroy if you ever hear this Leroy you were yeah, you were instrumental might my rejection. I tell you Leroy was a great man and a great banker But boy, he was an awful professor Leroy on How was he instrumental in you turning yourself even despite that he wasn't a great professor Leroy He was you know, I should say poor he was he was he was you know, an adjunct who you come in and he would he would Is that from range? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see part of this kind of professional. No, it's not a front range at UNC and it was But it's professional which means is you know, they're they're awesome, but they might not be well They would come in I actually Did this about UNC is that they would bring in professionals from from different areas so like my computer information systems professor was was a manager It had actually done stuff. Absolutely dude that changed my life too Cliff Dobits if you ever listen to this podcast Cliff Dobits up We haven't stayed in touch and I'm sorry for that you changed my life because you actually had real war experience that Informs your education of how you would teach economics Absolutely. Yeah, Garth Allen great guys insurance guy, you know taught me about insurance So anyway, Leroy Levitt and he would just read from the textbook and I thought after the first week I thought boy I could just read this myself But he would read you know chapter one blah blah blah and then he would stop and he would kind of look off at the corner He goes that reminds me of a story And then he would tell some craze that's how I learned story about you know Some farmer who didn't like his banker and decided to kidnap him and put his feet in a box of rattlesnakes until the banker Let him out of his loan, you know or something like this and and he would tell every kind of story that I thought you're gonna say Yes, he would tell these stories and and were there principles of these stories I probably don't say spiked feet. No, we just you know, you just tell me just tell these stories I think Leroy had been doing it for you know 30 years at that point and so he Of course, I tell you that I'm interested in small business and so Leroy is telling these stories about small business Okay, and it just like step two yes, I'm going okay. I like small business. Yep And I like finance. Yep, and this guy is telling me about all these small businesses He has these had and they need finance experience and stuff. Yeah, so that kind of led me down banking And he introduced me to a guy Dan Gasper Dan hopefully you're out there you know Dan I do don't and um Dan said I'd never hire a college graduate as a banker and somehow Dan Hirely that sounds how the chain is So Dan was a mentor just to probably how many people do you think would call Dan Gasper a mentor in their lives? I don't know. I don't know that's a great question. I hope I hope a lot because Dan was that I kind of guy I could probably think about about five. Yeah, and so I know there's over 20 Yeah, which is pretty good if I can get to a plant where 20 people call me a mentor in their life Think about all the people like I have to live a lot longer Bankers in this area Chris Chris Burns and Sue Wagner and Bill Steewig and Matt Beck and And you know Cory Stolte all these guys are still in banking. They're they're still like pillars of this community people that learn from Dan Gasper You know I was I was his credit analyst most of those people and that's when you and I met it is Well, we're gonna shift away from that actually because you're so you're a little Wells Fargo stewed you Yeah, yeah, and Joey Davis right joy water joy Yuri is happy joy Davis. Yeah, that's good. I don't even know anyway, so joy is like the common connection, right? Yeah, so she was she was out at Wells Fargo in Greeley. I was here before columns and that came to our bank and had our thing and you were like crashing the party Yep, there you go camera. We're gonna shift back to you because I think we understand who been it's he's a rock and roll Family man rock and roll banker. Yes, rock and roll banker. Oh, it's always Kelsey Kelly My my last yeah, also how many kids do you have I've got three kids you okay six eight and 10 We'll get into the family part later, but so that's band gates. He's a rebellious libertarian Business loving banking smart guy now Employee of a yeah crazy ass visionary I'm gonna tell you one thing real quick transition. All right, the reason I decided to get out of banking. I I Yeah, I kind of get a little bored print like you work right kind of get a little work I was never gonna be able to make bets with other people's money again. It's basically what I tell people Yeah, there you go and and you know there were a few guys that I came across and I'm sure you know this I'm sure you've experienced as well. There are a few guys that I came across that I said you know Those guys are doing something different. There's I mean, there's a ton of fantastic business guys. Yeah, but there's those you come across those visionaries The guys that are as I said are there that are ten years at not a year right ten years ahead right and And as you could but they still bust ask every day to make tomorrow better a lot like you just heard from Cameron Sand I mean, he's a guy. He will say yes, and then figure out how to do it And um, and there's there was a couple other guys in my experience that did that and Cameron was on there's really three I won't drop names, but Cameron was one of them. Do you want to yeah, yeah, I mean, why not give sure? Hey Josh Scowl great guy You introduced me to Josh and we had a couple of great engagements. Yeah, he started. Josh. I want to have you on my podcast Actually, I just haven't reached out successfully. So you want to raise that for you the California He's going to move back next time Josh when you're hearing this next time you come back to the Fort Collins area pop in for a podcast I want you to bring your wife because actually I think I spoke with your wife before I ever talked to you Yeah, because I was like make or maybe she email I don't know where Uh, yeah, so Josh great guy. I think of the world of your story in your bake house Uh, you know, met him back in 2009 and he decided to start a a bread This thing called brelude to free bread like what the world's that, you know, yeah, it's a great story We're gonna have it. Yeah, yeah, cashed out his 401k decided to do that. That's really it So uh, and then you know, did okay So uh, Josh the great guy and good friend and then um, um, uh, buddy Mike Beelitz, uh, ultimate support. Oh sure Still a buddy and still friend ultimate support is a little bit like needing company No, in that so many people that are either the owner of a small business or a key person in a small business Like learned a lot of what they learned through that company Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were a needing company. They're around for a time of stable They're they're a staple and they they spin off Excellent. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So what Mike's a great guy. He's a visionary. Uh, and I want to meet you too Let's see you go. There you go. It's us going on. He's 80D and yeah, you know, driven like Cameron I think Cameron and then there's there's probably third there might be another guy Another friend of ours Devin fairy uh at our development. Oh, yeah, uh Devin Devin's not like, you know, Josh and in Cameron and Mike and that he's actually A little more methodical Yeah, he's methodical, but uh a great mind and a really good friend and stuff like that too. So I would probably say those four guys guys Dad and some of us been in my database and been referred to me a lot of times for But these are the four guys that I was I always thought you know if if I ever got out of banking I would work one of those guys, you know, yeah, and Cameron's one of them and I like it and so we just doped him Yeah, he really do You're like the oiliness is great So maybe that's a story for care and we're back. Oh, we're back. We are back. Okay. Yeah, I pushed the button already Sneakily, I did it. It's been three hours. We're supposed to get back We went outside smoked a J no, we did not We'll do that on the podcast. Yeah, shout out to Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan. Yes The namesake of course of the local experiences definitely the Joe Rogan experience But I don't want it to be the Kurt bear experience because local think tank isn't about Kurt bear Right Cameron, we're gonna swing it back to you all right and Specifically Like what's the last year been like for you because that's that's really the first reason I reached out when I first reached out to you We were like trying to craft this podcast. Oh, and I think oil prices were like Minus ten dollars or something crazy negative 38 Now like I remember vividly, but yes, negative 38. Yeah So let's start yeah, let's just start us out like last Because Ben you were one year into your new job. You're figuring it out. Did you know shit about the oil industry before just enough to be banker, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's evolved Yeah, yeah BS my way through it So so here we are last February I guess is probably when stuff started rippling in the world for you or though Before that actually before there was already oil industry disruption before COVID really hit Yeah, no, I mean 15 something 15. We really took a I mean there was a pissing war between Us and Saudi Arabia and OPEC and you know, it's it's been depressed since 1415. Okay, um, so we really haven't really recovered since then so Fast forward you know starting to recover We're buying a market share right like the American oil industry is like pushing Saudi Arabia out of market share and sometimes that That's money. Yeah, it does and you know, so we're starting to correct. We probably got around 65 Wars over there for a while. So that's cool because they cost money too. Yeah, but they also spike oil prices So yeah, more is it good for business. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, um, so you have me. I mean, uh, oil's got around 65 Dollars of barrel at this point In February things are going good. We've diversified. We started our hydra back in utility branch Things are kind of they're really looking up Then COVID happens in that tanks everything Like what's the organization look like immediately pre-COVID last February like how many employ go ahead? Well, no, and the oil difficulty between Russia and Saudi had started just before COVID really Hit so I recall that that week before I think he got down to 18 dollars. It just crested under 20 bucks Yeah, if I recall correctly and um, and so it was it was already oil was it was yeah, it was having a hard time Yeah, and then approximately the next week. This is you know, in middle of March is Is when they started having the lockdowns here. Yeah, right? The extra kick. I'm really depressed it When nobody had to drive their cars for a long time. No one flew no one drive cars. No one's options shut too much supply and yeah demand is right Yeah, tanked so there's no place to store it Yes, which is what came up with the negative price, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean there's Yeah, anyway, it's all so what was your company like Immediately pre-COVID like not we don't need to talk about like revenues and things like that But like impact on people and on operations and things like that. We're suiting. Yeah, I was exciting Yeah, you were like wrapping up. Oh, we were we're gonna double or triple the company again and We'd started another branch in Kansas City. Idaho is going boy. Yeah, we just started In Kansas, we already had teed it up You know, I'm gonna take us back a little bit because People are gonna understand this story unless they understand that the NG's journey Like from there like right now. We're just doing binding materials and shit like that, right? Like it's not really gonna help us understand. So yeah, let's back it up a little bit. Let's hear your business story a little bit more um Like transition out of like like the pads. Where did you get post time? Like what were you doing that actually started making any money instead of just keeping a bunch of halfway house employees Construction so we started pipeline construction pad construction right that first project where you're doing obviously, so you know I'll make this funny most people like work for a construction company for a long time and then they get Balzi and like trying to sell a construction project Yeah, yeah, it's different than you. Yeah, I just fake it till you make it right um, so yeah I mean fast forward. We did that job. We did a bunch of the jobs for our customer at that point We built a good rapport and reputation with our our customer base and then they ended up recommending us to A branch out of Longmont Is in canna. They don't exist anymore. But shout out to in canna. You were a great company They were they're a Canadian based company the oil company or in natural gas and then they didn't eventually got into oil But uh, they ended up recommending us to the branch out of Longmont and I came over to do work for them Okay, to that point I was working in rifle and we're picking through the recycling and stuff like that. No Just construction at this point. Okay, we did a little bit of recycling We're doing like threat protectors cycling some small stuff. You put recycling bin on your construction sites and stuff Yeah, you still got the same heart. Yeah, yeah, we're still doing the same stuff and you know, we put a recycling program in Over here. It is just I was focusing on the revenue stream at that point right You know in less effort for more reward So I focused on the construction a little bit more and so we we started working over here things are going good um And you know from there how I actually got into the hydra back side is I bought a company out of New Mexico Yeah, Farmington, New Mexico shout out to Brad Griffith. Yeah, Brad Griffith. So oh What was your company like before you about the hydra back like what did you grow into your construction company? Which meant you built what like you built pad sites you Stuff that you talked about earlier So we built our ads were building facilities and we're doing pipelines are we're doing pipe like after all the drilling is done Basically you build the rest of the infrastructure. Yeah, so I mean the tanks and stuff necessarily no We would just assemble also we'd put all the piping together to the tanks and then we'd build the pipelines out of there So I mean essentially after the well is done we do everything to get it to sale. Does advanced tank Mick tanks for these guys? I'm a little specifically for for in-gie but yeah for the industry. Yeah, okay. Yeah So advanced tank is probably a pretty big company now. Yeah, absolutely So anyway, so yeah, we uh we got into that and I was subbing out a company out of Farmington, Mexico that actually just You didn't want to be a business anymore. Well my neighbor my neighbor said hey, I got a buddy down in Farmington He has hijabaks because we always hired out hijabaks as a sub portion to our organization. So Brian introduced me to Brad and Brad subbed with us for about a year And then 1415 came around and oil started diving and you know at this point is it $70 a barrel. He didn't want to play anymore No, he didn't and you know, I'm like all right. I'm gonna next T-Boons. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy this guy at 70. There's no way. It's gonna go below $70 a barrel. Right So we went to the Rio we both had three margaritas and we done the deal on a napkin a lot of good stories We wrote the napkin I have the pitch I have a napkin deal. Yeah, we wrote the whole the whole thing out on a napkin and I bought his company and That's how we got into the HydeVac business and Farmington, Mexico, which is and his company was like such hydrovacs by that time or something Is five five whatever. Yeah, and then they had to reclaim and receive in Farmington Well, all the all the trucks are up here working for me at that. Right. Gotcha. It was just a flawless transition So I bought that and then oil went to $22 a barrel. So you fell flat in your face like right after that big investment too Yeah, so So remember Cameron's educational background. He has a $3.2 million college education. Yes, right. I paid $3.2 million to No, when not to buy a company and that's when you think oil is at bottom because there's always low where you can go Wow, as we learned this Did you buy it from oh, yeah, like you finished buying it from for all that money Oh, yeah, I paid for the majority up front and cash and oh, so you had a pile already by that point Oh, yeah, this is really no negotiating once you're he gives some of the money. It would have been easier to buy five hydrovacs I would have been a lot of it had have been you know, you know, it's a robot in there So Well, what I was just excited is Interestingly what I was thinking about is how much like it's like Warren Buffett right like he buys operating businesses He doesn't anything to make some work better. Yeah, and that's what you were thinking. I'm like a Warren Buffett type I'll just buy an operating business to make it work better You know when really you should have just bought some hydrovacs and I was here company and you saved two million dollars or something Yeah, oh no, yeah, it was more than that. It was a great learning experience. Yeah, and now Brad works with you Yeah, so Brad runs my hydrovac division. So the guy that I bought the company from right we separated He went his way and I did have a little bit of debt left that I negotiated so I think I saved like 10% so right I there was a little bit left. There's like hey Brad. Where's my pay you out today? Right how much discount can I get because clearly didn't because I paid like I think it was a three year You're a man of integrity though aren't you? Oh, yeah, no, like you don't If I tell you I'm gonna do something I got to do it or else I'll figure a way how to so I But I tried negotiating right well, I pay you today. How much discount can I get so think you gave me 10% I I can't Ben would probably know so now that's your operation is Hydrovac plus all this construction services. Yeah, this is probably good enough to be around the time you and I first met Probably close. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what was badger badger? So that's who you're telling me you're gonna kick badgers ass Yes, and around about way that is uh that is our business model Badger has 1800 trucks. Okay, and you have 30 almost yeah, we're well 28 whatever. Yeah, you like to round up. Yeah, okay Yeah, whatever you're 500 now like I mean it's not Whatever they got a lot of market share you can still get well exactly that and you might be able to buy some trucks from them one of these days Yeah, and that's that's the business model. They're they're publicly traded company. Um, they're the they are the 800 pound gorilla right and You know, they're one size fits all business models nothing to say bad about badger in any capacity. They've done a great job They've built out of markets Yeah, you have the got 1800 trucks. They're doing something right how many other trucks are in the country doing what they do? I would say probably about another 1800 right. Yeah, so I mean Like nobody gets 50% market share without with like being dumb ass. Yeah, no, yeah, that's some real Obviously, they are a great company You know, but it that's everyone well, but great companies get complacent Rome didn't just like stay great forever. Yeah, you know, it either has the United States. Yeah So there's always opportunity. So yeah, so we got that's how we make America great again. Oh, absolutely Absolutely a long term Right now is in the little shambles, but we get there So I think that's enough. So you got some hydra back action You drew the hydra back business you kept doing the construction services and and probably even still you do provide still any of the like here Have some of your juicy stuff turning into no less juicy stuff stuff Other guys gonna fuck around with that. Yeah, it's just like one of those things that as we got bigger Excuse my French. Yeah, it's fine. I know a little bit of French based on like Yeah, as we got bigger It just wasn't worth the headache. Yeah, honestly, it's just kind of evolved as as we went through different stages of the organization And you know now and even our scope has changed and it's evolved as we went through different periods of Life and business. Yeah, so oil how old are you now? I'm 31. So you're like a Facebook guy. What's the Zuckerberg guy? I wish I wish he makes good money. How many employees get their paycheck from NG companies right now? Or almost a hundred. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we sure In COVID in 2012. Yeah, yeah. Oh, what was the most that ever got their chase X every month? Back in before 1415. I think we had about 180 guys. Okay. Yeah and women And ladies of course of course. Yeah, I had a couple welders there were women So I wanted to drift back to a topic that we touched on earlier, but it's that Hiring people to give them a second chance kind of thing. Oh, yes. Yeah, and actually even let's go back even before that because I feel like there's probably some really weird things that made you the really weird person that you are a day camera Like so this is another podcast like Ben's like a like I know a little bit more of Ben's story He's like a stable guy from the same family And you know, Baptist church kid this and that and he was like rebelling To get like guitar Exactly and rock and roll music and stuff But I really don't know anything about how you got to be you and to be this kid that was like Screw it. I'm gonna start this company when I'm 21 And I'm gonna hire these people and I'm gonna be 25 and hire in these people that Should I bring my shrink-in to really like? No, let's just start with Dr. Like we always touch on we always touch on family faith and politics in this show like I mentioned So let's just start with family like like let's give a shout out to your mama data Whatever that situation is and where you started like let's just get there. Okay, and we'll go forward I feel like that's really why in the way I am is uh, you know my my mom sweetest lady ever Yeah, she'll she'll do I give her a shout-out by name by the way Stephanie gooby Stephanie gooby. Yeah, she got remarried. She probably got teased about that. Well like that. I've just got re-married She definitely had a downgrade on the last name when she got the gooby, right? Yeah So she's got remarried, but um my mom sweetest lady she'll do anything to help you out And she she truly had a lot to do with to where I'm at today because there's a lot of time she empowered you Oh, absolutely, it's like I'm done. I'm done. I'm going back to the rigs because I mean, I made good money on the rigs. It's not too old. Oh shit. I'd keep going Yeah, when you can when you when you're making you could make like 50, 60, 70 grand a year doing stuff for And then you're like 120,000 dollars a year right at 18 years right and then you're six months out of the year and then instead I went to making zero dollars right for like a year and a half Making through trash. Yeah recycling bullshit So I want to pull this lesson out actually And and you tell me how you want to phrase this lesson But we'll put on the board because what people didn't hear also was that I've got a I've got a 12th pack of bears backyard chicken eggs right here Oh, yeah, bears backyard chicken ranch chicken eggs And it's for the best comment of the day. So I want you to tell me like what it is About her that empowered that or whatever. Just give me something Give me some wisdom from mama. Yeah, I mean, I mean at that point Truly for the first three years. I didn't make any money Right, and she tells you keep keeping on even though you could make a hundred grand a year working for the man The best way she put it is like I was sitting there and I was beat like I didn't know how's gonna make you know I had a couple notes. I do utility bills like I didn't really have very many Bills for overhead and stuff like that right and I was like hey I'm done. I'm not making any money my cash flow because I mean you could make in a month working for the man Why are you making nothing like working in your butt off? Yeah, and I didn't know what cash flow was So I'm like I don't know why I'm not I don't have any money like things aren't working out And I was like I'm just I'm done. I'm gonna go back to the rigs. I'm over it. Okay. Well You could do that like that's always a backup plan Or you could actually see where this could go and stick with it like either way if you do this And go bank, you know if you claim bankruptcy or you Right, it wasn't go work for somebody. It wasn't even enough to claim bankruptcy I think I like 20,000 dollars in debt at this point and I'm like oh my god. This is life changing I mean hadn't made any money for like a year and a half to speak of yeah And then she's like either you could quit now and not see where this goes and go back to the rigs Or you could see this through to the point where you're truly done and then go back to the rigs Either way you have an out But see this through Okay, like yeah Yeah, and and that's just truly something that's helped me to this day is just stay the course because It's easy to try to you know give it up. It's pretty easy. Yeah At no point Of being an entrepreneur is easy everyone thinks you know a lot of people have glorified it on Instagram of like I'll be an entrepreneur is just Passive income. Yeah, just a photo op Yeah, yeah, those guys get paid to tell you it's easy to be an entrepreneur and then Realize yeah, it's it's a hair pulling kind of a situation He has always so yeah, she just kept encouraging me to just stay the course I can always go back to the rigs if I needed to but she's like just see it through like what do you have to lose? Okay, like either way you can go back to the rigs and So I just stuck with it and thank God I did what was that I was gonna write it on the whiteboard. What was that word of wisdom? You can see this through. Yeah, yeah, just see it through. Yeah, see it through. Stay the course Sit through. Yeah, you can always go back to what you do. All right. That's our first nominee for the for the egg prize. There you go so So where is this like You're you grew up here too? Or I've become right. Oh, man This big city. I don't know if you've heard of it before. It's silk. Colorado was a sample. S-I-L-T So sorry. It's like this is what I like all A unique little town. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I'm watching Colorado which is uh over by Glenwood Springs, Colorado And it's like Yeah, yeah, I played golf at the rival golf course by the back in the day when I was first learning golf. There you go It's a great course Oh Yeah, no, it was great. It's a great golf course. Yeah, it's actually pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, it is So silk yeah, and so you grew up in the boonies. You got an eighth grade education You got a best Will you in a intact household growing up? No, no, okay. I was still 14 okay 14 14 or 15 yet and then my parents got divorced and Your dad went away. Yes, or whatever. We all kind of stayed in the same area. It's kind of a funny story So like my parents got divorced. Well, you said some of what who your family is made you who you are today So absolutely like they all have a Just listening to Matthew McConaughey's book green lights. Yeah, and his family is Fuckin weird And so like I would love to get into some local experience stuff like what makes people like entrepreneurial that as as 25 year olds are Rocking a five million dollar your company or something like that and trying to figure out how they grow into a national brand Yeah, frankly, you're one of the I don't I don't know that many people that have that many like employees and brand You know an impact and stuff I just have a chip on my shoulder and I just want to like Okay, I'll just call an ace and ace like I Let's hear it. You owe this partially to your brother Daniel. Thank you Daniel for Let's talk about your family being the reason they get into the family right now actually You know, this is a family I love everyone in my family. You know they all have a role to play in who I am and You know some pieces And some pushed me and some encouraged me Yeah, no, my mom. Yeah, my mom's super sweet Most caring person my dad. Yeah, my dad is no, I want to hear your mom superpower. Then we'll go to your dad Oh the caring side. Yeah, the most caring person. That's our superpower. Cool. Yeah, like yeah, she loves you more than anybody ever good. Yeah Yeah, it's absolutely your dad my dad is the most Blunt to the point Get shit done great. Yeah, donnie. Yeah, he's a caricature of himself. He absolutely. Donnie led to he absolutely is Indian man the hardest but the hardest working in American Indian Native American yeah, yeah, yeah, um and so Your half Indian yeah, technically I'm 25% because like a registration I'm only being able to claim what like I'm only being able to claim an eight. It's all the way you can prove right. Yeah, I do like the DNA test And I'm 25% Native American but because far as you know that was kind of a tribes guy or you will in the tribe If you're gonna register. Yeah, he's a lagoon. Hey, where's us from? God, Arizona. Yes. No, it's in New Mexico, New Mexico. And it's uh So your dad's north of New Mexico. It's the lagoon. Where do you grow up and stuff still Colorado? Yeah. Oh yeah But your dad like came up from Farmington from area from Fortes. Yeah, courtes. They're Met and rifle working on a Noial oil stuff before the first wave out. Yeah, back in the 80s crap and yeah, whatever. Yeah, okay And then what's the rest of your family like are you the oldest youngest youngest? Okay. Uh, I have a brother He has a gun store in Grand Junction, Colorado. So you're kicking his ass a far as number of employees Exactly. Yeah, but he's not a gun store. It's always Yeah, so he's doing okay right now. Make it more better than you make it way. He's probably making way more money Way less stress. Yeah, way more buddy. He sleeps at night while I sweat all night long. Ah, life's good Um, what's your brother's name? Daniel and would you like to give his gun store a commercial? Oh It's oh god. I'm now you're gonna put me on the spot. Oh shit Daniel just just pause this portion while I look on Instagram. No, we're gonna do that. We don't do that around here What's the rest of your family? It's 50 13 tactical is I think that's a terrible name Is it like his ad reserves? I don't know 50 13 isn't that after something to do with like Uh, 50 stars 13 stripes. Oh, there you go. Yeah, well, that's way better than what do you think I guess 13 makes it's 15 13 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool. I like that actually. All right. Sorry. I mocked it. Yeah, I need to go I hate mocking things when I actually Oh, dang, that's actually awesome That's a people are gonna remember that part. Yeah, they were 15 13 15 13 I'm like mocking mocking and I'm like oh 50 stars 13 stripes. I didn't get it. Come on libertarian Um, he's uh, go buy your guns and your ammunition especially there you go You can find it. Yeah, if you can get it. Yeah, that's you might be able to get it at 50 13 right very soon very soon as long as your real quantity. Yeah So That's your brother Yeah, you're the youngest so I'm just to you. Is there a sister? Nope. Nope. Just me just two of you Yep, yep, you eat your brother. Yep, and you're like and you're two years younger three years younger five five years younger Wow, so five years younger and you're like I'm gonna start the business dude. I'm competitive. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'll do it better than you so That's your family. Yeah, yeah Do you want to give a shout out? You told me about a girl at your dating right now Do you want to give a shout out to her or anything like that? Oh, yeah, no she keeps me in line. So that's good So Sarah Thompson. Uh, she's also an entrepreneur as well. She does. Okay. Uh, she has a cleaning business and she does Woodworking is like a art Staging staging So she's we're wired a lot of like yeah, we're both ADD and uh, we both try to Take on way more than we have the capacity for But she's great. She keeps me in line and uh, she's You know, I never thought I'd say this but she is and it might absolute rock like she I come home just beat from the day Yeah, and uh, she helps her love that she helps keep me safe isn't that like like Frankly, those of us that'll want her marries are like that's kind of like that's the point Yeah, yeah, when you find that one that's the one you stick with. Yeah, absolutely And I've never had that before so I mean it's it's it's weird. It's new to me at 31. I've focused mainly on business So yeah, my personal life is Lacked a lot right So yeah, very focused guy definitely yeah and invested hard and trying to build the thing that you believe it Yeah, so yeah to have someone that supports me like that. I'm like this is weird Like what's your angle? I don't get this No, what's your angle? Yeah, Sarah. I just I don't actually think you have a ladle at angle because I know that when people just love each other it that's just kind of the way it is and you should let that fly Let's do it bit. I want to show it back to you because we've been given Cameron a lot of airtime um Let's talk about your family a little bit and like stable Right. Yeah, yeah, I mentioned the dad Tim Gates Dr. Gates civil engineering professor CSU A great man. I I I consider him he's probably like the reincarnation of CS Lewis You know in the way that he thinks he's the he's amazing. Yeah, my dad is the he's the right more obviously. Yeah Um, he's the reason that I think the way that I think um, you know, he's he's very logical and methodical and um Uh, just just a good dude from a from a very young age You know, we didn't have a particularly exciting up group upbringing, but very stable dad was Hope this doesn't come across. Dad was on the couch reading a book. Right. I knew where dad was. Yeah And um, and so uh and what he believed in I'm so when you when you're that kind of person you believe in truth and you're searching for it you you really You know, you know, you know, hashed things out in your mind Uh, and and spend a lot of time, you know digging digging through evidence and truth and thought and stuff like that So dad uh, yeah, that's that's the reason I think the way that I do And um, and then mom's the reason that um, you know, your parents kind of become like over time to kind of meld into the same person, right? Uh, but but you know um Mom's probably the reason that that I actually have compassion, you know I was gonna say your dad's the way to think the way you do your mom's the way you love the way you do Yeah, because you do love people what's interesting because dad's very compassionate and mom can be critical But but it's interesting but the way that mom then actually spends the time interacting with people is It's very gracious, you know, and she's hospitable. Yeah, yeah, and um, and she makes great fragile. Oh my gosh Dude, oh man, I'm telling Valerie eight's best crook in town. Valerie with an ER. Yeah, uh, or I No, but VA LER. Yeah, my mom is Valerie with a e really. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think it's yeah I don't see that as much as a Valerie with oh Oh, yeah, you're gonna say yeah, I'm three sketches it. I So I love you. I hope you don't listen to this and be like he doesn't know it's Valerie Oh, that's so terrible good. No, no, I didn't go anyway. Yeah, yeah Just just dad mom and sister's brothers. No, just just my brother older brother Jerry. Uh, corporate doctor Um, shout out to corporate doctor again And um, and so talk about your family. Yeah, so let's get in the Katie a little bit. Yeah, sure And then also, hey, my brothers of that Mani sir two tours and and I can't stand shout out Army go. Yeah, army big green Um, and you know, and all my other friends army big big army fans. Oh really? You know, you know, Navy Air Force. No split divisions. Yeah, but man army big green. Okay. Just go big green So anyway, yeah With what army Navy Air Force Marines? We employ several Access related guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I try to keep those from the organization Actually, I've got some some family Navy seals and are not seals, but what's the Korman and different? No army guy. Yeah, it's you're all honorable like absolutely Absolutely like that's one of the coolest things as our politics has degraded frankly in our government the people Like no offense to everybody in government, but You've degraded like every moment from the time you enter office until now you've like degraded. Yes Like some of you coming with good intentions, but you degrade But our military hasn't done that. That's some good people out there. Oh, there's still some really great people. There's yeah There's still camaraderie between right and let me tell you even when they disagree and absolutely Like the green and gray. They love each other despite the fact that the army guys And that's that's America is that you'd love each other despite the fact that you want to keep each other There's a camaraderie, but it's very strong. So kind of like even the sort of war like you love each other Even though I'm gonna kick your ass because this is the right way. It's gonna be So let's let's do my family. Yeah, there's the family. That's right kids. We've talked about cave. Yeah, three kids Low Harvey. He's six. He is Cameron And Karna. He just ADD bounces everywhere and is just full of live cricket and then not questions every minute Oh dude, he has he has the the memory of a nap Great great kid though. He can't get along real well. Yeah, but the same same attention span. Yeah, the penny She's eight and she's an absolute sweetheart. She's just like her her mama. She's very artistic and just a Real thoughtful and then and then ever it. He is 10 years old and he's he's a little more like me's pretty uh Sort of analytical thoughtful You know, right free thinker. Yeah Yeah, just he Sits there and thinks and pauses and and reflects on what you say even at 10 years old, you know, yeah Um, and he's just amazing that uh that you know you have three kids in there They're genetically same and all but personality very different right up and yet you can see You know yourself fun and all of them and weird boys. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I love that. I love that a lot of fun. So And so it's great to have my parents are here my in-laws are here Katie's family here So it's it's really nice. They've got grandparents and and so you're like the super-duper-duper nuclear family with all the tools all the resources It's it's a blessing that is um and what do you do with that? We're stated. What do you do with that? Like what's what's your heart response because of Like frankly, that's a lot different than what camera is background was like Your family you your your your wife your cousins and stuff Like does that cause you to come at it from a different perspective? And what do you do with it? I don't know You know, absolutely Probably but it's the same one between the two But it's you know, I think that like his first camera are concerned, you know, we're a bit yin and yang Um, but I think I think our differences make us stronger. He stretches me in a way to you know as I started He's I said he's a visionary. Yeah, and you know, I started as a as a commercial banker. I can imagine a lot more than you can actually It's beyond me, right? And so I think I think between the two of us we stretch each other in a way that that I can say Hey, man, do you trust me on some of the analytical stuff? And he says do you trust some of the visionaries? Yeah And um and and that's like do you trust me to get crazy and then you you're like I don't do I'm uncomfortable I'm gonna get real. I'm gonna be right now because you're stretching me a little bit too much So I say I'm uncomfortable But but I trust the I trust the direction let me let me take my skill set and help you For the pace the vision, right, right prime examples today I'm driving back from the western slope and Ben's like so Cameron Do we have guys that are gonna be starting drilling in Kansas next week Monday? Yeah, I forgot Yeah, no, they're gonna be starting next week and he's like well why didn't you bring this by so we could like do the The model. I'm like oh Yeah, it's because um people talked to me and probably assumed I was gonna talk to you, but I didn't right I love camera just wants he goes catch up mustard But that's where like I think mustard That's where I think the friendship also comes in is it is it we're friends and that like I trust the heart of what he's doing And so if I was just looking at It was going is that way chose Cameron instead of some of those other opportunities and I mean I just had already sold his company I think it's hard is pretty awesome and stuff Like is that one of the reasons that we had we had a friendship and and I think you know We've we've had challenges and like figuring out our friendship But actually man if if anything 2020 has been this this opportunity to galvanizing yes And then some I know where Cameron's hard as I can speak You know frankly to Cameron and in a way that um, I know that he knows where my heart is at That then I say hey man I'm really struggling in this in this area. I really have a concern about this thing or hey I think we should you know, maybe we should consider this opportunity or whatever it is Um, there's there's no animosity here. There's no right there's like he loves you more for Contesting him right in vice versa. It's it's it's an understanding that we are both attempting to move this what we're attempting to move forward We've set something your vision is the vision Cameron. I see it. I want to get there and I think this is maybe a better path than yours is Well, yeah, and vice versa or or or We have to build a bridge here before we can go across that path. There's probably more and then and I say that right as Cameron has already jumped Right He's up to the side like he's swinging a triple hook around like hey, just hang on to this when I get it over there But that's it and so that's where I get back you're like our whole crew can we stretch each other, you know I love it. He's probably a little slower to now jump But I'm I'm also willing that if if he does jump I I've got his back right I get it and so It's like the military kind of like imagery. I'm having. It's like the marine crews coming in with build a temporary bridge after the guy that literally a swing in the treble hook is like Hey, I got us four contracts in Tennessee. Yeah So we're going to need to hire somebody and buy five hydrovacs in Tennessee by April. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what happens Like hey, we're going to Atlanta sweet. I've nothing I know nothing about Atlanta. Uh, we'll figure it out. Awesome We got like 35 days at least right? Yeah, exactly and so um, so that's been really good And I think I think you know within you know what we've done just in 2020 alone the expansion that we've had It's it's very weird. It's just sort of this dichotomy about about Struggling through an economy that's shutting down right um through a particular a large division of our Have you done nothing to pivot your organization? How would it be different right now than it is today? I'd be working at Walmart Yeah Because of Cameron's vision and because of our time to like taking the time like we want to do Hydrovac operations and then we wanted to take this Still want that yeah, absolutely. They didn't have any money in your core industry before this year We just wanted to get out of the oil and gas because the volatility in it that was the main driving forces about a No, so how much your revenues were oil and gas now To know 20% 20% how much were they two years ago? 95 Holy cow, I think that is so amazing. That's worth calling out like this is a painful I mean, it's a very cool, but but we were heading in that direction. This is this forced it Were you intentional about that diversification before this? I was in and how do we not done that we probably wouldn't be in business today, but Yeah, we started this about two years ago Yeah, I think really was around May That we decided particularly there's not April I think it was April of 2020 19 We said okay, yeah, it's gonna be hydrox and you've been talking to me about even when I was in banking Like I think I want to do this hydroxing. Yeah, right. It's who started transitioning that way Then first it's adding assets and then it's because you're looking at the numbers Cameron or you just like your gut It's like man, there's opportunity to hide your back and there's It's it's because I you know, I'm slowly seeing a shift in it as a construction company I'm seeing that soft dig is the way so I'm like all right I'm getting pushed in that way Everyone's gonna get pushed in that way, so we might as well get ahead of it And let's let's be the one that goes soft digging So yeah, that's kind of the job for that it wasn't the numbers. I mean because yeah, I mean historically hydro back isn't the most profitable thing You mean you're buying a 500,000 dollar asset and charging That $250 roughly some of my accounts for it. I mean the you better keep it busy The ROI is isn't the best, but it you know, it really establishes Yourself in multiple areas. I mean, right. Oh, it's like a core and then you can do these other construction services And they got a high margin things is the tip of the spirit gets you in all these different markets interestingly and it can stay in your head Because Badger is so big and has so much market share and probably so much bureaucracy and so much inefficiency yeah Because they've got a bunch of like when the oil industry is good here and it's not good there They got all these rigs just sitting empty and all that's just appreciating and you can move your rigs around to where people actually have to Man for rigs like relatively so you know, it's it to take the banking industry. They're they're like a Wells Fargo They're great. They've they've they've run a lot. They're massive right, but um, you know what you get when you go to Wells Fargo You when you're small business good, but it ain't that bad You get out of Wells Fargo and you and you go to a to a local bank you go Oh, this is what it's like a customer service banker actually knows what the fuck is going on exactly so So so again, they're always going to be there right there. They're a great place to you know Flying talent, you know, and uh, and they train well and again Hey, do you want to have a shout out to Doug Woods? We did it. We had my last meeting actually too. Absolutely. Oh Wells Fargo hires the no trains the best train the best keep the rest Absolutely that that's the badger motto. Yeah, train the best keep the rest That's that's a hundred percent what I was just thinking that's why I drifted to that is like Unfortunately when organizations get too big and cumbersome and stuff like that Travis our employee how to do it Travis out of Kansas City Mike out of Charlotte, I mean, you get so annoyed because you can't actually move the organization after that Like you're training how to do it right and that's fine You know, maybe maybe 40 years from now. We'll be like that. So I hope so out of the ashes the Phoenix will rise I get it. Yeah, that's creative destruction, right? I mean, they're different. I mean, they're two billion dollar company I think they're definitely doing something right right obviously Right what whether that's one of the times bigger than no, I don't even know. I don't know more than that. Whatever Scots too. Yeah, we can't do man get the calculator out But yeah, we'll definitely pick up the the pieces and you know, whatever chrome So but that would have been a like if all those oil revenues would have dried up And you wouldn't have replaced it like they did yeah And you would have replaced them with the hydra vac pivot You'd have been done This year, even me it be me managing Yeah, I just say small revenue stream. Congratulations, Cameron You now get to run the entire company and I'm gonna go work in a bank. Yeah I'll be back to basics essentially at that point. I mean to just to just as an example If I do share some of those examples. Yeah, we had a Business learning. No, we had to division and Douglas, Wyoming and and Douglas is very much correlated their economies Very much correlated with with the oil and gas and so Right before the COVID downturn we were continuing to grow. We did we did $248,000 in revenue in a month With just our our little division and yeah, it started as a crew and Douglas The next month we did $9,000. Yeah, from 248 9,000 so just give give people an example. That's unsustainable right that seemed like it's only a 99.4% reduction in revenue barely lost anything And yet at the same time our hydrovactivision has grown Because because we started to diversify out of oil of the typical Lines for like cable lines and shit like that. Yeah, so you're opening up rules for yeah to locate utilities for oil and gas or for oil All these traditional non-oil industries hydrovact companies are like get out of here you you're too efficient and Like cost effective for us or what well, and I mean our biggest thing is the oil and gas is a very demanding industry So I mean from a safety perspective right for documentation if you can do the shit for those guys. Oh, yeah It's easy to do everything else. Yeah, you leave the oil so oil and gas is a good training ground for us and our guys company Yeah, I mean it is You're gonna shrink and grow if you need to yeah, it's volatile it there's a high demands there's high expectations It is it is a it's truly a great training ground. So anything outside of oil and gas to us is relatively and I hate to put it this way Or it's easy. It's easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds demeaning to I want to actually call a business principal out right here and this is gonna seem like a weird one but when I was I guess like second year third year of college I started hanging out of the the The pool lounge at the student union a lot and it was $1.62 an hour to shoot pool on their like Big tables like nine foot tables like is whatever like way bigger than bar tables and then when I was like 20 and I started going to the bars proper At in North Dakota. Yeah, the bison turf Um Those bar tables were so easy. Oh, yes We're smaller and it's like you know, sometimes really Beating your head against the wall trying to compete in a hard area of business You know because you had ups and downs and listen that and and that cut the fat part right like when oil places is a good cut You get more efficient you figure out how to do it less less hours and get really skinny You get skinny and you learn how to do stuff with less resources than you would have otherwise Right and so Talk to that like is that Kind of like what opened up this new door is just the ability to get Skinny and tough. I mean that definitely helps uh that wasn't the the main driving force but uh I mean it definitely gets all those new relationships I'm a talker So is that you are you like is the revenue stream of energy companies still mostly flowing through you No, we we we we get some sales teams that go out and and really Push for new customers. They're they're really interfacing a lot and and pushing it and and pushing what we have to offer but uh Um, I mean other than that you're opening doors in the right places though. Yeah, no cam A huge part of camera's appeal is is is ability just you know to find people that you know enjoy him and that he enjoys yeah and and you know when you start making friends it was that old adage people like to do business with people they like Uh Cameron starts to find people that that they like him and so they actually want to do business with what's the difference between a badger hydra back and an ng hydra back nothing It's on the side of however like if I can get back to the oil and gas thing oil and gas taught us how to actually show up If I if I can name one one over guarding you know over guiding all it's show up show up. Oh, yeah It is amazing how many calls we get because they go yeah, we call badger we called somebody else and like they just they didn't show up They were too late today alone. We had a transaction or a meeting in Cheyenne and excuse me. I guess it was yesterday Yeah, and and uh I'm gonna show up a truck didn't show up yours. No, no someone else's so it starts with the bean ends with adger And They didn't show up. It was and it was three and a half there were three and a half hours late and so if you Like a beer and a half an hour So if you imagine okay that hydra back truck roughly it's $253 an hour Let's say that they're charging but then think about all the guys For that general contract. They're sitting around waiting. Oh, yeah to try to locate a place, you know Locate a line or utility and and and badger or whoever and you know and all fair and it's like whoever didn't show up all the sudden Well, the big corporate beer right they say wait in jeal show up and we say yeah, we got a fire up under us Yeah, actually because we're scrapping call them. Yeah, and we're gonna keep them as our guy from now on We'll show up. Yeah, and she shows up and isn't that like is that your tagline principle of maybe it should be but a principle of life Just show up 90% of us just show up just show up It's show up and the funny thing is because everyone like like what's what's the secret like what do you do different? Like what do you do this? No, it's just it's service What what do you want people like you'd like to be? Yeah, what do you want when you buy a product right? I'm gonna ignore you or do you want actual service and you want to feel important and there's no secret sauce to any of this There's no like oh my god, you're like you're growing and doing all these things. What do you do different? I don't do anything different. We none of us do anything different. There's no secret sauce. There's no algorithm There's no there's no this or that is just do your customers right and and sir and show a service And do you like call the movie Tommy boy Chris for of course, he says he you know the guy says well, you know that other company. They've got a guarantee They got a warranty and he says well if you want me to craft in a box and give you a warranty I'm happy to do it, but my product actually works And it's kind of that's sort of the same thing right we you can get down into the you know the five the five steps to success or Or here's our guaranteeer. This is our process. Yeah, did you show up and you do the work right? It's do it the way that you would want it done if it was your house And your property I'm telling you that so it's like the golden rule like it hard Because I can't sell them in at least something Cut the baby in half stuff. Wait, that's a different story. Yeah, so it's amazing. How much that pays dividends? If you guys want to because we only do have like maybe 15 20 minutes left Ben I know you have potentially sneak out of here We hit family Do you want faith or politics first? I'm happy to go to school first. We actually maybe I should do We're really with Ben Ben goes first to me. No, but he is he's a better person than most of us. I know honestly Um, and he's humble about that, which is cool Um, but Ben let's talk about what's you prefer first, you know, I'll take some faith I'll build those both together because I think unfortunately sometimes we we try to put our politics on our faith together Well, you should kind of well you should in the sense that I believe that your faith should should lead you Um, I I'm a I'm a pretty aggressive libertarian, you know, uh socially conservative libertarian if you will Yeah, and uh fiscal obviously very fiscally conservative Libertarian. That's interesting. A socially conservative libertarian. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would you know Like I'm kind of social moderate libertarian, but yeah, but I hear you and that's one of the reasons that we'd resonate Yeah, absolutely, you know, um, and and so you know, and in general, I believe that that people that individuals Uh, make better decisions than governments If I can if I can sum it all up and one thing I think that uh that That you know, I love how the Declaration of Independence when we talked about this talks about life liberty in the pursuit of happiness And I believe that those actually are are in order for a reason I believe that my that life Trump's liberty and that liberty trumps the pursuit of happiness and so And so that's where I kind of lean on that. Well, I'm a little bit socially conservative. I'll leave it there. I like that. And so um, I believe that that was a profound writing I don't believe that it's the most important writing Of all times The Declaration of Independence. Okay. I think it was a pretty incredible. We were just amazing actually talking about what was Jefferson uh, 30 years old work dude. I think when he wrote that with the gang. What was it six guys? I think they're you know, Franklin was a part of that and so on sure But um, so from some great word craft like I'm a word smith And I think that the Declaration of Independence is treasonous is maybe well It's it's actually the most beautiful piece of treasonous literature and the most thoughtful Yes philosophical political standpoint It sounds treason. It sounds like treason if we wrote it today and we and we read it today and we meant it today and so it's it's pretty incredible. Maybe so So keep going. Yeah, so so you know, uh politically that's that's where I stand and I believe that um That you are tied to the rights of your what life liberty and pursuit happiness life is life from liberty liberty liberty trumpers is happiness. Yes. Yeah, so life is first. So your abortion stands I'm absolutely I think I think that I think the liberties of an individual is very important But I think the life of somebody else which I believe that that life starts at conception I believe that so if if you believe that if you can define that it starts at conception Therefore it is a life and if it's a life it trumps your liberty it trumps somebody else's um A freedom of their body right if you will right and so um I've not heard this before although I assume this is a pretty well Produced theological stance. I don't know. I've just I've considered it. Maybe maybe that's part of my dad's thinking processes Yeah, why did they say life? It's like stone tumbles, right? You got to tumble these things around in your mind Because I think liberty is more important than your pursuit of happiness I think my liberty is more important than your pursuit of happiness That's what I think your life is more important than my liberty. So so so to toss that stone. So life A baby in a womb or a person is more important than the liberty of that person or of people Yeah, so and boy, that's a whole other podcast, isn't it? So um, so that's where I stand politically. I can I I love that I'm gonna kind of take everything I I believe in I know boxed out in the last and you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna circle back with the dog woods Shout out to dog woods. Okay, we spent a lot of time just chatting about life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness and you know before he passed So yeah, good man, but anyway, um, so that's where I am politically, uh, you know, religious Trump's liberty Trump's pursuit of happiness. There you go Man, I'm screwed when I comes up to my side And uh, what do you think we're talking about religion please happy to uh, man, I'm I'm a Christian. I uh grew up as a as a bible believing Christian. I think I might maybe much take camera sugar and I just send him Proverbs from day to day and and of course we already we already discussed Um the golden rule do one to others as they as you would have them do one to you I think that there's a lot of uh, wisdom there and I think that that wisdom is not just Uh, I don't think that it's just Uh, an amalgamation of of wise thoughts that we should just consider I think that that all of those wise thoughts that we should consider are founded on some real deep and true fundamentals about uh, about us as human beings as uh us as created human beings that are a fortune of the creator And uh, not as a whole other uh, that is so podcast Can I say that like the the truth in some respects boils to the surface and we grab it You know like that those wisdom literatures and even I won't give you don't have to give credit to like the Hindu writings the Buddhist teachings or different things like that but It That that good stuff really boils up and becomes clear and you can use it and you can grab it and you can put it in your backpack and pull it back out Well, you know if if I believe that that camera and for example or you heard if if I believe that you were actually Uh, created being that is created in the image of Of an almighty creator And that you're or are like kind of a physical reflection of that creator And I actually believe it. I might actually treat you different I might then actually desire to treat you as I would like to be treated. Yeah, and so If I just believe that you're an amalgamation of cells that happen by happenstance and that all that matters is that survival of the fittest and that Whatever I succeed at is the best thing right then then I don't really care to do under others as as I would have them Yeah, then it just becomes a monetary play and When we're sitting on our deathbed, I don't think too many people were like, gosh, I really understand more money All right, that's not it nobody ever says that yeah, and so um There you go that's that's kind of the the 92nd run down of where I am politically and where I am Religious wise and I and I fail Regularly and that's another point. It's that's one of the things that we share in common is that we don't like pretend that we're perfect Oh goodness as soon as we do we we've got we we're I absolutely believe aren't my hypocrite And I think that's uh, I had a friend once said, uh, you know, uh if uh a church is filled with sinners and saints You know, so uh if you think you're gonna go to the centers. I'm always one of the sinners Yeah, you and me both and so if you're if you're going to church because you think you're perfect What is it there are some saints honestly like maybe not like the bend I'm against the world. No, he's a Tim Gates Maybe who knows he's probably got a big porn habit. Who knows Sorry, Tim. I'm just teasing you. You probably don't but you might who the hell knows Oh Ben, can I ask you what question about your faith? Yeah Like where you like raised up in it and it was just always automatic or were you like Drifted away and then you like had like this journey that created like a real You know, so um so yes, I was I was raised in it and um because my father was a thinking man I grew up thinking and so I don't I don't particularly think that I necessarily had a had a moment where I was You know drifted away necessarily if I can just you know kind of you know, sure give it a general Thought but yeah, but yeah, but rather There were definitely times in my life where where you where I thought okay, do I really believe this or Or why do I believe it or how does it compare to to Mormonism or or Hinduism or Baha'i or whatever it is sure and um And we're so similar. I like that same period. Keep going Yeah, and so it's it's not that I um It's not that I doubted. It's rather that I chose To challenge my faith. Yeah, and I think a a life left unchallenged is Is a life not worth living? And so what is that do you know bend gates circa 20 no it is not somebody else that's great I have no I'm sure you know a thousand people have said it um and Uh, but the life worth like if you don't challenge yourself What's the point? Yeah, I absolutely so it's like even and that sounds like where you're resting with Cameron No, it really does and I think even even 2020 the challenges that we've had are are it it it's it's painful It's it's painful to have to let employees go it's painful to see you know revenue reduced when when you think that you know I can't keep this line going. I should be I should be I should be growing you know And like that's what a successful business is right like last year We did X amount of revenue and and next year we should do about approximately 16% increase because that's where our trajectory is and And um and it's amazing how also how short our memory is right we go We go like I already forgot about 2015 when the oil tank last time. Yeah, I've never forgot about that Well, he didn't but he didn't and yet we still plan on these these trajectories, you know And I'm gonna hit a quick business topic before I let Ben you gotta go. Yeah, thank you. I did I dear children over and we're gonna jump over to to Cameron for the family. Yeah, so you let me know when I'm back before you go Uh, because you got a finisher or scotch it's almost gone But the thing I really want to know as that last topic and I I Lost the handle on it I don't know Yeah, I'm there faith politics family faith politics family. It was it was Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna leave it. I had like I that's why I have this notebook here is to do this kind of stuff But yeah, we're just gonna let you go bad. Thank you guys And we love you Cameron. I love you. Thank you hurt love you. You I think that Your French is pretty significant in this circumstance because like If you took the number of bankers that quit their banker job and went to work for an oil field services Oil industry companies. We just we just period. We identify as service companies a whole now. Yeah But when you left it wasn't Yeah, it was 85% of your revenues Right, so you quit your banker job to go work for an oil business smooth talker like there's like Heinzite Kurt, you're really pointing out at this might have not been the best decision There's like I was gonna say 125 people but I can actually say like there's like 12 14 people in history of America that I've like went from being a banker to being an oil guy Except for like in Texas during the crazy days But like I'm gonna go back before I leave I'm gonna go back to you know, I've got I've got Sort of four four friends and and guys that I that I worked with, you know, and uh, there were clients Like you know, I would I would hitch my wagon to their pony and Cameron's one of them like if whether we are in an oil and gas services And we switched to hydrovacary decide that we want to get into another service And we get into ammo manufacturing Or or we start making like we're a little low on ammo these days. We'll go on. Yes. I mean we we haven't even That hard scratch the service of the various other things that Cameron and I are involved in um It's it's this is just the beginning of of a long line of uh of transactions and and a business that we're gonna do together Actually for the so actually ban on we're me and you are just gonna have like a banking and Shit like it's got just yeah, yeah, just a point of banking well, but not just banking But also like some of the amazing companies that we've been around it's amazing How you can make money, isn't it? There's so many ways you you you can shred paper right as Cameron did stick it to the recycle Yeah, it's just it's it's amazing what you can do to make money if you actually Show up right you guys show up. I mean look at everything So everyone's like how do you make how do you make a business work? Look around everywhere There's there's money everywhere you look every single thing on this table right now equates to money Every single thing everything is ruining everywhere everywhere literally everywhere you look it's show up your thing I just can't I don't know. I don't know. We're gonna split these eggs in the cracks. Yeah, I'll bring over tomorrow not Cameron Yeah, I got more eggs at home if you want to Well, I mean after 2020. I think I need them to survive camera's gonna need to I need my ramen been literally I'm getting like three week or three dozen eggs a week from my six chickens Oh, wow, it's crazy. They're they're studs I didn't buy the episode of that To buy the hijabax this whole time when I should have been buying chickens Tickets are so much easier to maintain and I can't No, you can't eat them We're not gonna talk about the difference between chickens and hijabax Ben I want to get you out of here. Thank you guys. Thank you. I love you. I love you. I love you, man Thank you guys I've sued tomorrow for Mandalorian Cameron. Oh, man. What yeah, we have frightening. I Mandalorian dates Yeah, we get together. We have either piece of it or other than here. We're still friends So this works. Yeah, we got to decompress. I really appreciate like Honestly, I kind of I kind of wish I had what you guys have in this kind of a friendship journey. Yeah, it is Yes, we we tried choke each other Monday through Thursday Exactly, there you go. So Cameron Thanks. Yes. Yeah, Ben's good out of here. Can you do you want to take faith or politics first? Oh, man Uh, I I could take a bent approach. It's not gonna be in here as elegant, uh, but we could do both of them I guess Um Yeah, to do both looks like part of the rules. Yeah, we don't tell you before you come on Faith or politics um, I would say from the faith perspective It's been a growing Uh Season Yeah, it's been a growing idea for me. I was I was raised as a Christian Very briefly marginal. We'll say yeah, yeah, yeah, or referral Christian maybe yeah, and uh, you know, uh, we've kind of lost Touch over. Oh my family. Yeah, yeah, we stopped going to church. Sure. It has only influences. It's hard to go to church when you're like Stuff's crazy. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And then uh, you know, as I get older I get a better understanding of the world Um, and just truly You know, I feel like and then this where it We don't have to talk about Jesus by the way, faith is anything that you have faith. Oh, and that's what I'm gonna get into some I guess my Take on faith is there's something more out there may it be karma Buddha Jesus. Whatever you want to call it Okay, there's definitely something more out there. Yeah, but I don't know what that is yet. So I I don't know I live there for a long time I was yeah, yeah I'm a firm believer in karma. You know, I'm like, all right. So Carmen and then don't do bad shit. Yeah, so bad shit don't happen to you exactly So um, um, I think that's good. I don't know where I truly lie. Um, from a faith perspective. Um, I believe in there's something more You don't know darts that Jesus yet. Yeah, no No, I think as I get older and I get more of an understanding and you know, even my outside influences of hanging out of Ben Being with with different groups, you know My my life has been a roller coaster of the people that I keep around myself and as I as I get older I just I kind of refine that and you know I hold people closer that bring value to my perception of life and yeah and and values and you know, it's ever evolving But yeah, I think Do you want to talk about it? Let's let's let's peel it on you. Do you want to take the time to peel it? I do. Oh, yeah I like like how much have you looked into it into what Face stuff like have you studied the Bible? Have you studied the Buddha? Have you studied? No? No, no No, no No, I've been I've really studied anything. Yeah, I've been to church with Ben and Katie multiple times And every time I get Christmas and Easter and So I go on Sundays and you know, ultimately what I do is I just take everything with a grain of salt and take what I see is value to me So like is there you know as they're talking and in going through different verses. What do they call that? Where you like pick the part that you want at a restaurant or whatever? All a cart all a cart. Yeah. Yeah It's just all Ultimately, it's all in the the pursuit of just being a better person as a whole right and whatever gets me to that end result That's whatever I align with you know, I just what I resonate with you like when I like The first one of the first things I told my wife's parents was if I ever entertained going to church It would be only to be a better person not because I think this stupid story that you're telling me is true Yeah, and you know, there's definitely things that I believe in for sure But yeah, ultimately my pursuit is I just want to be a better person. I want to I want to be able to help more people be more influential Do more be better and ultimately my my whole goal is I want to be a family man. So I would say yeah Yeah, I don't know anything that Buddha would say, but well, I don't know. I think Buddha and Jesus will be friends honestly Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they were like contemporaries. They'd be like yeah, we're homies. Yeah, exactly And yeah, that's just like here. Yeah, I'm into the point of my life where at some point here shortly I'll be bringing in Children into this world and I just want to be a Better person because I now my influence is gonna be right they're gonna They're gonna absolutely be a direct reflection of how I raise them Good, better and different so that's why I want to be the best person that I can to ultimately be prepared to raise them to be Great members of this members of society as a as a whole. Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot of burden It's not really a burden is you know ultimately we should Yeah, obligation isn't burden. It's opportunity too, right? Absolutely. So yeah as I get older is my my faith is changing And I'm you know call it whatever you want call it A Buddha Hinduism Jesus, you know Christianity Catholic all these things whatever it is. I mean ultimately I'm taking a bit of every piece that resonates with me and trying to apply it in it But you say day-to-day like something somebody some force created this thing. Yeah, just to have a sense thing Yeah, yeah, and like it's gone if it's karma or Jesus or whatever it is Okay, there's something more out there and you know I'd like to believe that there's more like was an explosion in the laptop factory that The laptop or was it? Yeah, that is getting way beyond my pay grade. I have no idea I appreciate the fact that you're on journey. Yeah, so that's Faith is the faith part. Yes. Yes. Let's that politics You came walking right in here. Was that a mask on your face? Oh, man. Yeah Recently COVID. Yeah, you can't you can't give anybody the COVID because you just had it right? It's funny that we Relate the two of COVID and Paul Unfortunately, it is It is it is, but uh, you know, I'm a conservative Yeah, I consider myself middle the middle the road Modern yeah, I'm a moderate Nowadays, it's hard to align you know, you I call myself a moderate, but Trash both of the parties here. Oh, yeah, oh you know, the thing is The left is too far left and the right's too far right right You know, I I align I identify as a Republican. I consider myself very conservative Fiscally Which doesn't necessarily Trump, right? No, you know, oh dude. Yeah, we can get into that all day long Well, let's wrap I'm a republic like he's not a physically conservative guy I'm Republican The reason I like Trump is the policy and what he's trying to push Do I like the man as a whole absolutely not right? I think the guy's an absolute idiot He's a narcissistic. He's a total jackass. Yeah, yeah, the maniac narcissistic self-dealing. Yeah, absolutely But slightly better than what the other side out to offer yeah, no, so well, why don't we don't have to talk about Vote for what you want to see so you know what when I vote from a policy perspective I vote for what I want to see and I vote for what I want to accomplish as as an as a business owner as a person right And I align more with what he wants to accomplish than the other side I'm not to not to say that the other side. What do you think that is? The other side well sure if you want to start there Like what do you think the other side wants to accomplish that you disalign with? Our over arching the overarching thing is I think they're going for a socialist narrative like we want to reward Let's get equality and equity. Yeah, we want to give people things for minimal efforts and I From a society's perspective and a furthering That's our 100% where we align it Yeah, yeah, make sure to happen unless you have to try you disincentivize as the masses and then no one's gonna Want to progress in any manner so if we're all equal what incentive do I have to excel in mine in in my side and not to mention Let's be honest name one thing the government has done better than than the capitalist side the capitalism mentality right mindset Name one thing the government's ever excelled at and I'll be I will I will listen I will listen to what you have to say, but until you can prove the government's really done anything successful Besides blow cash besides blow cash at an unprecedented rate I don't think I'll ever align with giving more control of the government because Are you a subscriber to the the local experience or not a local experience the local perspective newsletter? I have not know. Oh, you'll have to well, so in April. I think it was The fixers and the nixers fixers the nixers. Okay, and then was the fixers take center stage was the title Okay, because the fixers had the control of the hand grips of power at the time in April They're gonna fix this shit right up. Yeah, and the nixers are the people like I don't sure you can fix that So I'm reading you as a mixer right now like like as much as much will intentioned as government has yeah Usually even their best intentions actually make it worse. Yeah, that would be my perspective on it Is that is that align with you? Absolutely and like I said, I mean, you know at the end of the day I I align with both sides from the political side you want liberal stuff to happen. Oh, absolutely like I can gaze Mary Absolutely, I don't care like what you do and you're into like I don't think that at that point I don't care if you're gay straight. I don't care what like on that side do what you want to do do whatever makes you happy But yeah, like when the government wants to come in and like well, you can only have you ever have you ever read the the book Atlas shrugged Oh, sure. Yeah, it was big part of my I mean utilitarian Yeah, so Christian like weird fucking Was he like I you know I align with a lot of the principles in that book totally. I like you I want people to be incentivized like I want to keep If you just incentivize people from doing hard things. Yeah, they won't do hard things Yeah, yeah, and and you know, I think this oh man like Ben said earlier. There's so many things that we do not go public for a while And you know musk his stock is the best of a whole Whatever so don't worry about it. Uh, we have what I tell you what what about it? Oh, I just you know I think we should incentivize people and people need drive to do things of of of value, you know, I I I don't know if if I didn't want to excel or like even in my organization some people Don't want to excel and some people do Why should they all be paid the same like right? You know, yeah, here's the position it pays 74,500 dollars a year except for your you're a badass. Yeah, you suck. Yeah, yeah, so frankly They're not the same you get out of my company and or you can work for 55,000 a year And you're awesome. Yeah, and you can work for 90,000 a year because you're awesome absolutely absolutely So yeah, that's a that's my rough take on politics and you know I I know a bunch of my buddies that Or I update they always say they tend to keep away from the politics side So I try to align with that. So I'll give you the rough the rough uh the take of it because I feel like in the next couple years We're definitely gonna get a good trajectory. So I don't want anything to bite me in the butt as a whole Right, but um, let's talk about that you want to talk about that like like frankly I lost a handful of members this summer. Yeah over politics because I really yeah It was crazy because I like I didn't think that like following all the principles of Black Lives Matter would be actually the best thing For the black community. Oh, I love black people. I think they're amazing and I But I didn't think that BLM Inc Had their best principles at hearts and I and I lost some people over and I said things insensitively and whatever Well, I think you know in that perspective. I mean there's as an organization organizations can lose sight of what they're trying to accomplish and right and and people you know My girlfriend. She's she's very liberal. Right. So I mean I love liberal people. Yeah, so me right whatever you align with like you know And you said you lost a couple of members because they didn't view you didn't see this thing. I just didn't think frankly frankly I want to I want to take it I Racial justice. Yes. Yeah Accurate judicial treatment between blacks and whites like should blacks and whites get exactly the same treatment By the judicial yes, yeah, absolutely should we intentionally try to disrupt the nuclear family? No, I I think one man one woman several kids is like the best way to do it. Yeah, can we love people that don't do it that way? Yes, but but but but that like at that time they don't they don't advertise anymore But at that time in the summer of this summer Black Lives Matter said that we are one of our missions is to disrupt the nuclear family really And I was like I can't really get on board with that. Yeah, because it seems like a dude and a woman and kids is like kind of the best way Yeah, what I've seen. Yeah, well and again, there's always a different perception of everything And so and that's where I got in trouble. Yeah, and it was worth it and you know my piece things like like people Not wanting to line or they want to do it or have that conversation with someone's like if you lost customers or people in your group because of disillignment of politics or perception of of of how things are should be I mean I'm also a firm believer We should have these conversations we keep getting more and more invited because people don't want to have the conversations And if it shouldn't be an echo chamber of everything that you believe so like if you believe It should be a man and woman all the time great No, but I mean for for comparison right now like if that's what you believe in I believe oh yeah, that's great if Gay people I think that's great that one of a man won't have a baby. Yeah, but I mean like for people to like say I don't want to associate with you because you have a different belief in me That's why I feel like we've definitely failed ourselves in society is because we should still have these conversations because we we all still I mean are we Americans first? Yeah, we're all gonna disagree like The world has a million different views Everyone's perception is different. I don't think we should shut people out just because they're they're views don't align with yours And you know as a Republican I love talking to people that Disalign with my view because I want to hear what they have to say right because then it's gonna change me and evolve me And it's gonna it's gonna open my mind to things that I wouldn't normally hear or listen to so I mean Yeah From a policy perspective Paul Ticks for you don't understand until you get that information. Yeah, like my my mom is very liberal My my dad is is very conservative and I'm very conservative my girlfriend's very liberal Um, do you love all of them? Absolutely. Absolutely. I like to poke the bear every now and then right other than that It's you know, it's uh, it's a it's a great it's a great group I like I'm gonna promise us absolutely like I never was just having a conversation about that tonight that like There's almost nothing I love more than having a really good intellectually honest Dialogue with some of the disagreements with me. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and I love I love talking to people like yeah Living in an echo chamber. You're never gonna learn anything different. Don't only gonna hear with what aligns with exactly what you believe in right And at no point are you ever gonna grow as a human being if you listen to the same Yeah, I'm narrative same ideal So if if for what it's worth if you're a rushed limba. Yeah, or if you're a yeah, I don't know who's is there a left wing kind of the same I don't know who I There really isn't that same kind of echo chamber like self-created for you. Oh, well, it's mainstream media like I guess maybe this is a principle like try to get At least a little sample outside of your echo chamber. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think everyone should you know I don't know if we've become so divided and everyone's just so upset with everyone for having different views I just I don't know we're all in the same page. I think if we take away Everything we're all pretty close to the same beliefs. I mean you'd have like have a different outline subjects of like abortion or You know different social programs things like that that sure you might be a little bit more abrasive or it might be even harder to have that Conversation because you believe so strongly in them, but I mean other than that. I think As a deserve to believe to know why you believe that thing absolutely, and that's right everyone's everyone's belief is is So are you are you Anti-abortion because you're kind of liberal. You got a little bit of girlfriend. Yes Um, oh, that's We can I'm sorry if you want It's a hard one for me to sometimes the utilitarian of me. I and Ryan would be like yeah get rid of those people, right? Yeah, I'm torn because You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of circumstances outside that uh, you know the control um Yeah, I don't really believe in it Shouldn't do it. Yeah, I don't think you should do it in But maybe you should also in the capacity that people are pushing it to like it's a form of birth control and they're like well You know you like oh Man, there's a lot of other forms of birth control. Oh, I know. Yeah, let's lay off that conversation All right as the no, I think I do I'm jumping one step ahead of you like always do yeah, you're like Yeah, it's Yeah, there's lots of other ways to not have to have abortions one of those things like I don't want to Talk about because I'm not the most educated right so I'd rather I'd rather tap out on a conversation than profess My opinion. I love it when I don't right and what I'm it's okay to confess when you don't know what you don't know Yeah, you know, I'm not a woman. I've never been in that situation. I've never been faced with those situations There's a lot of things that I can't really attest to or speak to so it's one of those things like before I put my opinion in Unless I have any value in that opinion. I just would rather tap out. Yeah, I like it Like people put their opinions in situations where they don't really have a credibility Yeah, so yeah, I like that. So would I personally believe in Um, and I think a lot of this is because where I'm at in my point of life like right I think children as a whole You want to have a baby yeah, like I want to have kids you're excited to have a baby I'm excited because of this amazing woman that you're currently dating absolutely and and I see that from my perspective of like That's a gift and a lot of people can't have kids so like why would you take something so great and get rid of it But again, because I have I have no context. I have no situation. Sure. Like there's no My my opinion doesn't really mean anything at this point. It's just it's my take on a situation. It doesn't matter at all in this Yeah, I've never been faced with any but turmoil or If the amazing woman that you're dating right now like says I'm pregnant and I'm gonna get rid of it. You would be like What yeah, be absolutely upset. I'm like I mean and that's just because I want children. Oh, yeah, I want children like I want some with you because you're awesome. Yeah, why the world would you kill this little critter? Yeah, and not like I you know, I I don't know. I have a hard time shooting rabbits. So like you know, that's a cute fuzzy little animal like it's a cute little baby So like you got to have like yeah, there's some translation. Yeah, there's some relate ability there So I mean, I don't like killing anything right of course My personal belief is I don't really align with it, but I understand some circumstances. So it's You know, there's I was a value, but there's some times that it's relatively telling it's like Actually, a lot of the babies that get aborted cost society money instead of actually bringing benefit to the world exactly So yeah, again, it's one of the circumstances that I don't really want to add my two cents because my two cents aren't worth much Well, but it's kind of related to the mass thing right yeah, and like how much of the world we shut down. Oh god Oh, we were just talking about you guys as code experience you want to like this isn't really politics, but it kind of politics It is um like we've shut a lot of the country down yeah to keep What at least you and Ben and your significant others experienced as yeah, and your mom your 90 96-year-old grandma 96-year-old grandma experienced as kind of a little over the top cold. It is Pause that there because I got the bathroom. I do too. Okay, here we go back All right, here we're back. Oh, yeah, yeah, so that was an amazing cool bathroom break. Yeah, really was I really was I've been drinking these bubbly waters and they really go right through you. It's true. Waterloo Um, it's the best kind, but the the last statement you're you're bringing up COVID mass and everything like that and like I said not just mass, but especially shut down like Um, I think everybody wore a mask if they thought it was really right and and this is where I uh, I'll you know policy aside. I'll truly speak what I believe in um I I think we we we went completely overboard with the mandates and and telling people what they need to do and how they need to live their life and And this can go back to you know People that believe in abortions my body my choice right. I am a firm believer in the same same sense with uh with what's going on with COVID it's uh my life my choice if if I If my risk Tolerance is higher and I want to go out and and and um, you know, take a risk take a risk Uh, then that's my choice. It's uh, it's it's not the government's choice to to step into my life and or my business And I mean our our revenues dove 70 percent all associated because of the COVID and the mandates lockdowns everything like that I'm not to mention the The logistical nightmare that it's uh that we've incurred in every state On how to operate as it as a kind of we're in seven different states Every state is in every state is different and how to interpret that and how to handle it um and like I said If you're scared stay home if you're at risk stay home will figure out a method to take care of you and your family But to lock down the masses of people that This isn't a big deal to them. I I think is overreaching so you and Ben both had COVID and I mean I'm gonna come back to this my body my choice thing because I think that's actually significant to the frankly to the faith Family politics element of it, but You guys actually experience this yeah, and so did your grandma so my grandma 96-year-old grandma so so talk about your experience Uh, I had a headache and a sore throat Under normal circumstances had COVID been not been the thing I would have taken a Tylenol and I wouldn't even stop going to work. I would have just Presumed it for a day or two days or three days zero days I would I wouldn't stop going to work at all the Tylenol every day for how many days? Oh a day a day and so Ben how about I've been same Okay, grandma same My grandma just though I talked around the phone and she's like I just want to get out of here like I don't know what's going on. I'm like I'm fine. Like let me help but she's confirmed Three time call me time confirm cuz like she has minimal symptoms. Let's start again. Why are you not dead? Yeah Exactly lady. Yeah, and she's just too stubborn to die. I think that's really the case It's not really COVID. It's just she's too stubborn. Um, Ben. Oh, she's 96 She just had a major heart surgery. She's broken her hip all within the past six months. So she's weaker. Yeah, definitely and uh, it was very mild at best for her and uh, you know again I understand people are dying like I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not doubting the the Reality of the situation. There's a lot of people but if you want to go out into the world without your mask on and risk Yeah, if you want to better get in who you have. Yeah, that's fine Again, my wrist tolerance is much higher. I fly helicopters. I skydive. I deep-sea dive. I race rally cars Motorcross like my wrist tolerance is higher So it doesn't bother me right if it bothers you. That's fine Let's let's come up the solution to ensure that you're safe. Right. Let's let's make sure that you can feel comfortable Yeah, let's make the make sure that you have the amenities that you know your body your choice Yeah, and my body my choice in an absolutely and I think as a community We need to ensure that we can take care of everyone in our community and that they're not forgotten like you know If you're concerned about going out and getting groceries and doing daily tasks Let's let's come up with a method to ensure that You're taking care of um, but at the same time without walking the brakes to to society or to our community and in everyone's way to make A living for their family. I mean, that's how we make money is by interacting with each other And I mean let's look at all the politicians for again, you know, you got Hancock don't travel don't travel this is the most deadly thing ever don't travel He's a hypocrite he went out and you got caught traveling on Thanksgiving flying to Tennessee or wherever he went I know, but is you know, yeah, it's due as I say not as I do So like if you don't believe in it as the as the narrator of the story Did you're so into the the nixers and the fixer? Yeah, I was talking about yeah So like they fixed it, but they don't even want to follow that fish Yes, do as I say not as I do and you know at that point like How from a society standpoint are we supposed to take this seriously? If you don't if right Nancy Pelosi getting her haircut with no mask right you got you got news Gavin Newsome having a party when he just banned having parties over 10 people 14 people in a restaurant with no mask. He got Hancock saying don't travel and he travels like Come on like Either this is really really bad. Yeah, or this is really really Yeah, and it's just like and it is really really bad. Obviously is people are like right like 3000 people died Yeah, almost the last few days like the it's 9 11 and then the last few days Yeah, you can't it's real people are dying and it can be scary I just because all who are really old doesn't mean you can say it's not really that big a deal. Yeah And even though I met with my mom and my stepdad a day to pick up my dog My stepdad's concerned about it. What's great. I'll respect that That's your belief I'll ensure when our interactions happen that we don't overstep anything your comfort zone But great, you know, we stayed we stayed outside we socially distance We interacted from afar We did everything that made him feel comfortable and then we go on to their life I don't need the government to mandate or step in and tell me how to have that interaction It's just I think we should talk to me about maybe and we got only a few minutes left I got a zoom call in 11 minutes, but continue. Yeah, we got three minutes. Okay. Let's talk about like How that looks Like across a hundred person organization. Oh, it's a train wreck Like delivering that we might not get there all the way, but like is there anything like oh People need to learn about business about how to navigate actually being a CEO of a company when you've got this diverse thing Gonna well, I mean ultimately I can somehow really quickly With whatever direction you decide to To lead or push your people in Just be consistent with the narrative. Don't be the Gavin Newsams. Don't be the the Hancock Don't be the Nancy Pelosi's to say Do this but then do something completely different if you don't truly believe in it Then then align with whatever you believe in I mean don't Don't be a hypocrite. So I mean like so you would say things are real But people have to be a lot of take risks if they want to absolutely so I got our safety meeting for instance I'm like guys This is a real thing. This is the state mandate. This is what we're observing here's masks I'm not gonna wear it. I'm fine. I understand the risks. So I'm not gonna wear it But if you feel uncomfortable if you feel if you feel you're at risk By all means put your mask on like I so I I supply masks. I supply all the PPE But you don't wear them like you're like Trump. Oh, yeah, no, I because If I die from this I was intended to die soon either. I'm gonna wreck a helicopter my parachute's not gonna open If this gets me, I just wasn't intended to live in much longer So I want to actually you're one of the few people I know I think that it's strapped on a squirrel suit I'm not on a squirrels to be I'm in the box to when we talk one time This year was supposed to be the year as pushing over to Switzerland and and do a squirrel suit But COVID ruined it, but you've done some interesting Like you're you and I have probably the same appreciation for risk. Oh, yeah, I love it. I like I'm I'm definitely gonna die in a non-traditional manner I mean that I've just I've always said that I hope I run into Something terrible like 97 miles an hour or 97 years old. Yeah, I had a hundred 97 miles. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, an unjudicial manner um Be honest know that this year I was supposed to go to learn how to do squirrel suit. There's an indoor Squirrel suit wind tunnel if you will that I supposed to go over in Europe, but we couldn't travel this year So I'm just stuck doing regular stuff. I haven't done it. I haven't done it yet. No, how many skydabs have you done? 150 I just started here. Yeah, yeah, but but really just like If we're taking about talking about real evidence like squirrel suit guys like 80% of them die before five years I hope I only know three so a couple my good buddies do squirrel suit and I hope that's not the statistic But uh, you know that they're definitely pushing me to get into that they're But they're good people for sure use the parachute. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you gotta pull it Exactly if shit gets real. Yeah, yeah, so We haven't spent a lot of time. We've been telling a lot of stories. We would tell a lot of philosophy politics whatever If there was one thing that you would say like This is the difference for me Like making a business into a real business, making a life into a real life Like that has driven you into like growing an enterprise. Oh man. What like what what tip to you Like it's you're kind of a weird story and that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here is just you're a unique environment of Um, and yeah, like I said, I don't feel like I'm a unique circumstance Um, I think all of it really boils down to risk tolerance I have a little bit more risk tolerance, and I think that's what makes me who I am Um, so I'm a little risk tolerance without insight is just like jail time so Yeah, I think that's why I've From a business perspective I've done what I've done is because I like to push forward and I'll take the risk to do it and you know that that plays into my personal life As I get older um, I'm definitely more calm um taking less risks more calculated risks evolving changing my perspective and uh and sharpening the pencil if you will Can I take one last two-minute question? Absolutely. If if the next five years have been an amazing success for you both business and personal yeah, what's it look like? I Think of the next five years If if everything goes as planned, I mean, I'll have sold the company out. Wow and uh, I'll have a family Okay, and you know, and the fighters yeah exactly in me and Sarah talked about this other day as like you know I want to I want to sell the goalie. I want to sell the company pull some chips off the table start a family and spend You know the first couple years of my family and really get it started and And not take that that not like go quick into our tourism again. Yeah, well, I mean Yeah, just take like three to five years to to really like build a family. Oh, I gotta call bullshit. Oh no I'll definitely be doing like three projects on the side right thing that consumes a hundred percent of my time fair Because I want to I want to like Like our goal is if I sell the next five years and we start having children I want to buy a house in Hawaii And like let's start that phase of our life in Hawaii. Do I own do I own a surf shop? Do I own something in the interim? Yeah, probably because I'm wired to can't not be busy. Yeah, but at the same time Hey, you'd probably don't know how to surf with a shit right now and you could learn that exactly So it's it's all things that I would be happy you doing and uh, it would Allow for more time to to really start my family. So that's that's my ultimate that's my ultimate goal So like really why do you want to start some get some mancobiders out there? Yeah, yeah, absolutely Race some little stuff. Absolutely, and I think this is it like I've for the past Well, yeah, 31 Well, I've had the company for 11 years and I've been well filled for 13 so the past 13 years all I've been focused on is my business side and in minimal But towards my personal. I really want to take the time and even take a couple years to focus on my personal side really get centered and understand like what What holds what that looks like yeah, like what would I value and what I want to Become as as a father as a as a as a spouse as a husband. Yeah, yeah, yeah, or spouse husband. Yeah Yeah, that's the same thing if you're depending on who got a girl. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I mean So I as a husband as a father and on the personal side I've I've ignored the person. Yeah, I've ignored the personal side for so many years that I don't think that's really true. You've been thoughtful about it Well, in the past couple of years since I've met Ben, I've been more thoughtful about it for sure He's been definitely influential. I'm gonna call you a future Christian There you go. There you go to be continued. Yeah Cameron, I I don't know if it's I'm a little sorry. Yeah, I don't know if it's mutual or not, but like I feel like I Have very little very few people in my life where I have more resonance with left-time less time spent really Yeah, okay. Well, that's good to have you know, we have a lot of talk about yeah I just I kind of jive with the way that you approach things and that humility of not knowing where it goes from here What happens if I said I did I just be lying. How are you right? Yeah, everyone's lying if they say they do I don't know how's going on this world. Totally. Yeah, um, and so I just want to say thank you. Absolutely. Thanks for having me I appreciate this. Let's get off this call. We we literally Thank you for listening to today's episode of the local experience podcast This is Kurt Baer founder of the local think tank and hosted the local experience And I'm here with Murray Sharer local business developer and hosted the local shorts episodes We hope you heard some new ideas and business perspectives in this episode Our mission and all that we do including this podcast is to share collaborative business ideas and solutions that uplift the business community Subscribe and follow us for you listen to podcasts to get new episodes as they are released curious about logo You can learn more about us at localthinktakes.com where you'll find more information about our chapters business resources and events for business owners and If you're looking for perspective to accountability and encouragement along your business journey Why not apply for a chapter near you today? Why not why not why not We'll catch you next time on the in-depth local experience podcast with me Kurt and with me Murray for bite-sized business lessons in the local shorts. Bye