EXPERIENCE 41 | Linguist, Integrator, Innovator, and Warehouse Business Accelerator with Allison Seabeck

Welcome to the LOCO Experience Podcast with LOCO Think Tank Founder Kurt Bear. Listen in as Kurt digs deep into the business and life stories of business owners and thought leaders at different stages of growth from all walks of life. Launching and growing anything can be a crazy experience, so expand your thinking and level up your understanding of what it takes to find success in the world of free enterprise. Welcome back to the LOCO Experience Podcast. This is your host, Kurt Bear, and I'm joined today by Allison Sebeck. And Allison is the executive director of the Warehouse Business Accelerator in Loveland, and they have an awesome new home in Southwest Loveland that I was able to tour today and it's amazing. And Allison, why don't you start with just describing what the warehouse is for people that have no idea, or even those that think they know, but they don't know the new warehouse? Yeah. The Warehouse Business Accelerator is a nonprofit that's set up to help scale up phase businesses. So we're focusing on technology, manufacturing, businesses in that phase. Just after startup, you've graduated from an incubator, you've got some traction with your product. Now you have to build a business around that. So we help with the process of scaling up your business, and the facility that you were talking about, the new part of the warehouse, in addition to mentoring services and connections to resources and what we've been doing as a service agency for the last seven years. We've added a physical innovation hub space at the Forge campus, which is 50,000 square feet of industrial production space that is available for those scale up phase businesses to tap into the industrial infrastructure and be able to have flexible lease terms to grow their business and focus in on those early scale up stages and difficult strategic decisions and parts of that process of growing the business so we can build really sustainable, successful companies. Yeah. People will be a little lot less alone as they're scaling up. That's right. It's about the physical infrastructure and about the community and the connections you make and the creative collaborations that come up. Shared resources and learning from each other and there's a reason that we tend to like each other. We are kind of about the same kind of things. So let's talk about, maybe let's talk about where the warehouse came from. If you don't mind, I know you didn't, weren't there right from the Mary start, but tell me about that and these ideas. The origin story of the warehouses is actually one of the things that inspired me and got me excited about joining the warehouse two years ago when I came on. So we look around the ecosystem for entrepreneurship in Northern Colorado and there are a fair number of different resources available for new businesses for getting your idea off the ground for supporting that early stage business, but what there seemed to be a gap in the ecosystem for was the different types of resources that a scale up phase company needed and a group of business owners and business leaders kind of looked around the ecosystem and said, you know, if we're going to continue to sustain the high quality jobs and manufacturing and technology, we need to support the businesses that are starting here, the ideas that are growing here and the thing that's missing is this startup support or excuse me, scale up support. And so they actually did some work with the previous owners of the old HP campus in Lovelin and said, we should have an incubator here, something like an incubator or an accelerator, created a business model, worked up the budgets, all the plans, and then the thing that didn't quite work out was the physical space. And so the group of those business leaders said, you know what, even if that space doesn't work out, we still need these mentoring and support resources. So they founded the Warehouse Business Accelerator in 2013 and built that up with an initial mission to grow manufacturing technology companies and to provide second-stage business resources. And they built community too, people could actually each other. Yeah, yeah. And even if that wasn't a physical space, we learn from each other, right? That's the premise. There are so many people in our community who've built exciting businesses, who've grown and scaled companies, who have this vast store of knowledge that's in our community already. And we don't need people going running to the coasts, going running to Denver, going running outside of our community to get the support they need. We just need a way to tap into and leverage all of those really smart, successful people who want to give back to the next generation of impactful business. Well, if we can grow businesses here, we can import the workers if we need to. If we don't have the skills already on the ground or whatever, although we can produce a lot of good workers here between Front Range and CSU and stuff as well. Yeah, exactly. And actually the heart of the mission of the Warehouse is about economic development. It's about creating the landscape and the ecosystem so that we can build the businesses that are creating the jobs, that are creating the opportunity for the community. Yeah, that's really awesome. And so you come on August 2019 at that time, the Warehouse was kind of, I don't know, if I'm going to be honest, it had struggled to gather the traction that it wanted to make the impact that it was looking for. Yeah, there was one of the, you know, initial assessments that I did was what is the impression in the community of the Warehouse and really the answer to that question was the visibility is low. What's the warehouse? What it is. Exactly. Exactly. And so that was clearly one of the first things that we needed to tackle just in looking strategically at what the Warehouse did, what assets it had, who were part of the, who was part of the mentor network, what resources did we have in place, that idea of just visibility in the community connections network and tapping into and being really a part of the regional ecosystem and not a standalone entity, but really connected into what else is happening was one of the first initiatives that I was working towards. You know, looking at the rest of the Warehouse, we built out and refined some of the acceleration roadmap process that we take business through and then looked at some of the, you know, assessments and activities that we do with each company and enhance those from the service side. And you've got quite a few mentors and consultants, I'm sure a gap analysis of that group, what do we need more of less of? Yes, exactly. And when we're talking about mentors, we talk about two different categories of individuals. One is a lead mentor that really owns the relationship with a member of the accelerator. It meets with them regularly and helps to identify what are those immediate barriers that you're facing this quarter and how can we connect you with the resources that are going to help you break through those barriers, maybe a little bit more quickly, a little bit more efficiently with a little bit less anxiety and angst than you maybe would of your, on your own and your own kind of bubble. So that lead mentor role really needs to be someone who's been there and done that has grown a company, has an understanding from kind of top to bottom of what goes into scaling a business and can speak generally about a number of different areas across the business. That doesn't mean they're the expert and the one providing all of the answers. There's not a finance expert, but they know their way around a profit-loving balance. Right, exactly. And they can look at it and say, you have a problem with your profit-loving. They might not be a lawyer, but that contract is terrible. Yeah, exactly. You may not know anything about, you know, filing a patent, but you sure need to protect your intellectual properties, so let's get on that. And then the other group of mentors and resources are people who have a particular subject matter expertise. So someone is evaluating a new enterprise resource planning system. Who do we know who can help you think about what does that process look like? What do you need to be prepared for conversations with vendors? What's the landscape? How can you make that process go more effectively? Yeah. So I'm thinking, are they also like some of them hoping to invest in some of these businesses and stuff too? Is there a capital component to this? Yeah, that's a great question and actually something I would always want to make sure to clarify. So the warehouse business accelerator as a model doesn't directly take equity in the companies who are members of the warehouse and accessing services. But one of the things that we help with and one of the things that comes up in our mentoring conversations is capital. We can help a business get ready to go out and raise a seed round or an A round, prepare them both financially business due diligence-wise, and then also mentally and psychologically for the founder. So it's sort of an pitch-pitch coaching, different things like that. Yeah, exactly. In that process, though, we have connections to and want to introduce our companies to people who do invest. Right. And so some of the mentors are angel investors or VC investors, or they are connected to people who have those funds so that we can make sure we're trying to introduce folks to as many resources as possible. Are you funded in part by private equity people that want to stay on your ecosphere so they can get a sniff at possible deals? At this point, no, that's not, but it might be kind of corrupt if I suppose, maybe you want to, but I don't think so necessarily. You know, we want to not make sure we're not narrowed down to an exclusive relationship. However, those folks who, for whom business has been good to them, and now they're looking to give back to the business community through hours and mentoring and through dollars and investing, right? Right. Both of those providers. Donations and investments. Yep. Those provide personal benefits back to the folks who are involved at that level. You know, I think right now we're focused on the donation side to raise the funds to build out that innovation hub space. You get the companies in there, you get them on the roll line, and then the opportunities to invest come along. Exactly. But I've found just from a personal level, knowing what's going on in the tech and manufacturing world is a really important kind of asset to an investor to be aware of what's happening locally in the community and try really hard to stay connected and know where those opportunities are going to come from. Totally. Yeah. So tell me what you were doing six months before you took the job at it. Yeah. Well, my, my story is one where I made a conscious decision to walk away from an executive position. A couple of years prior to starting at the warehouse and did some consulting on my own and supported, you know, a couple of nonprofits and other businesses that I knew through my network in one off kind of project type of activities. It's like, oh, you're available to work a few hours a week for me. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And, and that business I started with a partner who was a CFO for a period of time at the company I had been at previously. Okay. So we worked together on some startup ideas of our own and just kind of played around a little bit with what that might look like. And, and through networking for that work met the founders of the warehouse, Jay, Dr. Dan Camrath. And talked about what that, what that organization was all about. And like I said, really connected with the origin story and the mission of the organization. And as, as like would have it, it was a, you know, an organization that needed and. Yeah. Oh, we just talked right. Oh, we just talked to the train. Okay. You know, that, that, that needed that role filled in the leadership of the organization. So it worked out that I wasn't looking for a gig and I found one hard and, and if you could help them succeed, it would really be doing a lot of what you were built for. Which was, is, isn't has been, and I think we might as well talk about, I want to talk about your last job before that that you walked away from. But then we'll set up for, how did you get to be the person that wanted to help people get smarter at business so much? Anyway. Yeah. So talk about the process. Yeah. Yeah. So when I moved to Northern Colorado, I didn't have a job. And I was looking literally in the newspaper. I went to the downtown Fort Collins library. And when is this? This was 2007. Okay. Um, where there were still classified ads in the newspaper. I mean, that was even a thing that was on its way out. But it still existed in 2007, believe it or not. And I answered and add in the paper that said, training assistant needed, much to enjoy traveling and talking to people. Sounds fun. Okay. I like both of those things. Any job. Yeah. So it was, it was literally an entry level position. They're an assistant for a master instructor who is a former executive that teaches training programs through the organization called Proci. And Proci was founded here in Northern Colorado, 1994, the idea of figuring out why some projects work well and some don't. So large corporations, a lot of the change that comes into their organization comes in the form of a project or an initiative or a strategic goal that requires people to change the way they do their work. Right. Change management before that was even a sexy turn. Right. Exactly. Um, and the, the founder of Proci was studying what is it that makes some changes, some projects successful and others fail and, um, process reengineering. Is it the best solution? Is it, you know, what are all these different factors and kept coming back through some research surveys that it was the people side of those projects that made or broke the success? Yeah. You know, assuming you got a baseline of a reasonable solution, it's really more about what, what you do to help your people embrace and adopt the new way of working or the new computer system or whatever it might be. Um, and so that, that company, Proci was formed and founded around this notion that, that people can help us be more successful in business and that really, uh, without knowing it resonates with my philosophy. It is not mutually exclusive for the business to be successful and the people in the organization to be successful. No, I, the way I think it has to be basically, they do work together. Yeah. But I think the way I think wasn't maybe the, especially the way people thought back in the 90s and whatever. So this was pretty cutting edge at the time. Yeah. It was this kind of interesting conversation at the boardroom level to say, um, you may have been accustomed to thinking about your people as another cog in the machine, right? Another robot for your, your business. But if in fact you think about their needs as humans to understand why it changes necessary to build their knowledge before they have to act differently to give them a chance to practice and build their ability to give them an opportunity to make a conscious choice to participate in the thing that you're doing and help them understand what's in it for them and why it's important to the business. If you check those boxes, you actually get a lot further down the road to meeting your organizational outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know Zach Maccurio? I do. Yeah. You totally should if you didn't. Yeah. Of course, it's like barking up his tree for sure. You know, connection to your purpose and the organization, um, it's so clear to me, both from the work that we did at Proci and from the experience that I had working inside Proci as it was growing and scaling. Yeah. So you left there as CEOs, is that right, President? President. Yeah. So in six years, you came from an underling to be president of the organization, um, and I'm going to come back to that story. But I need to know more about like what was your stage of life? You've moved here without a job from where did you have a college degree where you washed up on the shore? Yeah. Almost. Um, so I studied linguistics for my undergrad, um, I stayed as far away from the business school as possible. I thought that that was not something I would be interested in or enjoy. Let's go farther back. Yeah. Yeah. Where, like, where, like, where did you come from? Where did your family have you raised you? I was raised primarily in Virginia. Okay. So that's over in the mountains or in the mountains or in the hillbilly land, exactly. You see land? Yep. Not the northern Virginia state, but the rest of Virginia state. Right. Um, I grew up there, um, for the most part, um, my family lived overseas for a few years. So we actually lived in Kenya, um, in middle school. So that shaped my worldview, um, just experiencing a different culture, a different place and, and understanding of who you are in the world when you are, kind of pulled out of the society that you're most familiar with, and you can see that there are other ways of living, other ways of doing things, other priorities that other cultures make, that, that impacts how you think about where you're going to go and what you're going to do in the world. Sure. Sure. And send me a little bit more. Like, are the missionaries or the teachers are? Yeah. So my father's a teacher. Okay. He's a high school math teacher. Okay. Um, my parents. And a job opened up in Kenya. Yeah. Yeah. My parents both were missionaries, um, like in the late 70s and early 80s. Um, and, and at the time when we were, you know, young family, um, they wanted to expose us to an international environment. Yeah. So, um, my father took a two year position at a, um, Christian school for, um, missionaries and ex-patriots in Nairobi. Interesting. Yeah. That's, uh, uh, I, I, I want to talk to him now and learn about that decision and stuff. But what an opportunity. It looks like you're so glad that your family made that decision. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Um, which then that informed my goals going through high school and, you know, I took French because I thought I would want to go back to Africa and, and that would be a great language to have anywhere on the continent. Right. And then, uh, through college study linguistics and teaching English as a second language was my minor in Virginia still. Uh, yes, at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, um, and had a, had a great four years there, um, again exploring, getting to take some, some trips and meeting different types of people than I had been exposed to in my past and figuring out what that all was. Were you like a super student or were you the late bloomer in terms of like education awareness and stuff like that? Yeah. Uh, yeah, I was a super student. Yeah. That seems like it. Yeah. You're, you're big that way a little bit. Yeah. Um, and so you were in different academic things and stuff. Were you an athlete as well? So you're growing up here? Yes. So I went to a small high school, which means that if you, on the team, if you want to, exactly. If you want to, you can, if you can, uh, catch a ball, you can play all the balls. And, um, if you can run a little bit, you can play softball and run track in the same season because they need you on the four by one relay team. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I played basketball, volleyball, track and softball, um, played in the orchestra and, um, it sang in the choir. Nice. Oh, what did you play? The French horn. Oh, of course. It's like the super achiever instrument, right? The hardest one almost, um, and then we'll talk about family more later, but brother sisters, like, is this a big group moving to Africa or a small group? No, it's, um, just two of us siblings, myself and my younger brother. Okay. Um, and so college gets out linguistics, is that, you have techniques to your earliest career steps? Yeah. So, uh, for linguistics, uh, degree, you have to study, um, a couple of different languages. The study of a specific language is not the main part of a linguistics degree. It's more about how language works, how people use language in social settings, how language is one of the most complex systems that humans have developed and you learn it when you're two and three and four. So, it's human development of language. It was just a kind of a, a grid array of all these different topics, how we form sounds, how we interpret meaning from sounds that come into our ears and bang on our eardrums, right? Right. Um, just fascinating topics that I really enjoyed, um, digging into. But one of the requirements was, um, two years of any other language and at least one semester of a non-indo-European language. Okay. So, that would be, you know, um, Chinese Arabic Japanese. I happened to take Japanese because I Chinese didn't fit in my schedule and so Japanese, it was. And Japan was going to take over the world at that time. Yeah. Yeah. There was, um, some, there was a little bit past that. Yeah. I know it was just starting to come up as like, this might be the, probably should take Chinese, but yeah, it needs fits my schedule. And in that one semester of Japanese, Japanese 101, um, with Miss Takata Sensei, um, she was talking about this program where you go to Japan and teach English in Japanese elementary and middle or high schools. And, um, you apply through the Japanese consulate and, or embassy, um, and then they place you in a town or a city's board of education, so I thought, gosh, you know, I, one of my goals is to spend some time overseas, have an adventure, um, and that's important to me. And, you know, Asia was not on the radar, but sounded like a, kind of a cool thing to try. So, um, I applied for that program. It's the Japan Exchange and Teaching, the Jet Program. Yeah. And, uh, went there straight after, after school. Did you have jobs in college, in high school? I did. So, uh, my first job in high school was working at a living history museum. Uh, so I dressed up in costume from a 17th century German farm and showed what herbs would have been grown in the garden and tend to the chickens. Like people that are touring Chennandoe Valley or whatever come into the college of Willie Mary and they're also to visit their kids or whatever in one of the museums. They come to the museum of frontier culture and, uh, I was spinning wool on a spinning wheel and just talking about the history of the Chennandoe Valley. So, that was a high school job, um, right after high school, I cleaned hotel rooms for a little while, um, there's some more stories there. And then, uh, was a tour guide in a cave so there are a lot of limestone caverns. Okay. So, that was what I did mostly through college in the summers and then, um, the other job I had was a high school basketball coach. Oh. That's what I did in college, um, during the school year. Interesting. Were you a really good basketball player or just going to fell into that? No, I, I'm short and, uh, didn't, you know, got, again, small school got to play. I got lots of good experience, um, but it was more, you know, along the lines of learning the game and understanding how works, yeah. Like if it's business or basketball or whatever that student in the game. Well, the skillset wasn't quite there to ever even think about playing in college, but I loved the game and wanted to instill that sense of teamwork and leadership and young girls. I think that's a really valuable piece of the story of, of how I got confidence and understood how team dynamics work and, um, wanted to be able to participate in that for, yeah, some other kids. That's pretty cool. Um, so tell me about Japan. Yeah. Uh, so I applied for this English teaching program and, uh, ended up getting placed not in a classroom, but in a board of education office. So I was helping do cross-cultural counseling and put on training conferences and, and answer the phones when someone needed to go get their driver's license, how could, you know, how to do that? How many of your Japanese before you moved? So I took that one semester and then I sat in three more semesters past fail just because I thought I might do this program. Um, so I could read, there's three alphabets, um, in, in Japanese, and I could read two of them, but not the third, which is the characters, the Chinese characters, um, I didn't have very many of those. Um, and then speaking was, uh, it was almost like starting over when you actually get into the actual context. Right. When you're, you could speak Japanese to your Japanese teacher and your classmates and they can understand you, but the Japanese people, very, very different experience, yeah. But, you know, a few weeks of, or a few months of a immersion and you were probably pretty good. Yeah. So you could get by, um, get my food ordered, make sure I got all my basic needs met. Yeah. Oh, so you never really got fluent in Japanese probably? No, you know, I think there was a lot of pieces that I was missing, um, from a whole native speakers. Sure. Sure. Um, but yeah, it, it, it, it, it, it, your friends still ask you to order when you go to the Japanese restaurant for sushi? Yeah. Sometimes I, I get funny looks when I order Japanese things because I say it in the way that I learned it in Japan, right? So this, this particular kind of sushi, like I don't read it in the English way. I, I read it in the Japanese way and nobody says that the server is, you know, a college student from CSU and is doing it just for some extra dollars and like, I don't know what you're talking about. Two trains already. Yeah. We have a one train per podcast average. So it's now 1.02, uh, bust in the average, right? So I think we'll just, uh, make small talk for a short moment here. Um, what I'm thinking about is like, what were some of those, like highlight moments? I mean, you're just, you're 21 years old or something like that probably and moved to Japan, living by yourself and I'm probably an apartment that's the size of this office. Uh, yeah, actually, uh, it was about the size of this office. And that was a tiny little city, yes, it was in a city that's bigger than Denver, but would be considered a rural backwater city in the Japanese context. The city is called Kumamoto, which is in southern Japan on the island of Kyushu, um, 600,000 people in, in Kumamoto at the time I was there, I think it's a little larger now. Um, yeah, I moved across the world with two suitcases and, um, an apartment waiting for me because the board of education was leasing it. So I just moved in from the person whose job I took over when, you know, um, bought everything wholesale from her that she had left behind, including like boxes of craft, macaroni and cheese, you know, like it was all stocked. Um, and then just try to figure out, you know, the new surroundings and so there was one other, um, teacher living in the same building that was part of the same program. So she and I got on our bikes and like the first, uh, weekend and got thoroughly lost, exploring and didn't know where we were and managed to make it back home eventually. And, um, are you still close with her? Yes. Yeah. That seems like a pretty bonding experience. Absolutely. Like living together at overseas and figuring out a new world is a great way to make a life long for you. Well, going through any hard thing together is pretty bonding. So, um, so what's next for you then? This is when. So this was, um, right after school and I was there for three years. Three years. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So each year was different. You first year, you're just trying to figure out what's going on. Second year, you think you got it figured out in third year, you realize you don't really have anything figured out? Totally. Yeah. Right. You're like, but somebody else coming on next year or so. Yeah. Right. Um, so there was a three year term limit, um, in the program at the time. So that, I knew that that was going to be the extent of it and I was ready to move back to the, the states. Did it pay like good or not really? Yeah. So it's interesting context now. Um, I would say it paid okay, but looking like back then, I thought it paid great. Right. It was, it was, um, you know, definitely enough to live on and more than I could spend and a lot of the housing was subsidized so I didn't have those expenses. So, you know, people in the program traveled all across Asia to Thailand and China and Vietnam like every holiday, it was, it was a, um, definitely a lifestyle that was, um, probably a little bit more than what you would think that you could afford on that salary. Yeah. Um, but people did or you did. Um, like, can you take it? Okay. Yep. Yeah. I pretty much every weekend there was something going on. Yeah. Um, or, or a longer holidays. And did you go home some Christmas sort of things like that or not? Yeah. So I came back to the US two times, um, one for Christmas in the middle of my second year. And then the second time was for my grandfather's funeral and slash, uh, preparing for my wedding. So there's another piece of the story. Oh, yeah. So, uh, in Japan, I met my now husband, um, he was also on the program and he is from Laramie, Wyoming. Oh. So, yeah. So we met there, um, he's six foot four. So walking down the street with a large, little sortie. Yeah. A large white guy stands out and a short person notices them no matter what. Right. Um, yeah. So we, um, we met there and got engaged and, um, the timing was such that when my grandfather passed away, it was a good opportunity to come back, spend a week, making some of those basic arrangements for the wedding. So we got married in Virginia after we were both, um, you know, finished with the program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I was just looking awkward. Like I shouldn't be with this young girl or something. Well, you, you, well, you figured out how to go together better, right? You figured out how to do it. I guess, yeah. Or, or, or, or as jived or whatever. So, yeah. And you're, you're like five two or something. Five three. Yeah. Five three. Yeah. Five three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Five three. Yeah. Five three. Yeah. Five four and basketball. I'm almost six three. And so our spread is slightly greater than yours. Yeah. Um, so, so you come back. You get married. Don't know what anybody's doing because he's been teaching English. Yep. You've been teaching English. That's right. All the variables were up in the air. We didn't have jobs. We didn't have a specific city or place to live. We didn't even have a car at that point. You know, we could go anywhere and do anything. Um, and what we did was pick the city as the variable that was going to be. It's going to be the constant and then we'll find jobs and find a home from there. And that's right here. And that's right here. Classified ads and freaking paper. Fort Collins, Colorado. We. Interesting. We got a rental on the northwest side of Fort Collins. Uh-huh. Or by Hollywood or something. Yeah. To have to in Vine. Yeah. Right on. Yep. Um, and then just started looking for, for jobs, um, did a couple of short term things here in there, volunteered, um, downtown, old town for Collins a little bit and, um, and then yeah, ultimately found this ad in the newspaper that turned into, uh, quite the career path that I couldn't have projected. Yeah. Let's come back to the, to the proxy career path because I think that's got to be, have some fun stories in there. Yeah. And I want to like really especially focus on what you learned about business from being inside of proxy and outside of proxy. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point because it's too parallel, but slightly different stories. So, um, pro side was a fairly small company at the time. Keep saying it wrong. Sorry. It's pro professional side science. Oh, professional science. Yeah. Now I can do it. Um, you know, it was operated by the founder. Most of the, all the decisions were made by a single person. And part of the work that we did over, you know, really the 10 years that I was there is figure out how you make that transition from the person who birthed it to the sustainable longer term future and the changes that we led and the strategies that we implemented. A lot of them were about either slowly transitioning or intentionally breaking some of the habits of the business that had been in place for the 15 years leading up. Yeah. Not because. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And not because those weren't the right things for the business to have done in the past. Right. But they were the things that needed to be. Well, the time was now. No. Yeah. If we were going to achieve the potential that the business had, we had to be doing things differently than we did to get it to where it was at that point. Yeah. So describe pro side when you arrive. Yeah. So 20, 30 people or something like that. Yeah. Right. No, I'm OK. OK. Right about 20 people. Operating out of a small kind of warehouse converted to fancy finish like executive wood trim finish on the inside down in South Loveland. And there were about four or five former executives who were out in the field teaching and training on the content. And then there was a small team back in the office managing the logistics and printing physical training binders right in the warehouse. That was part of your assistant training assistant job. Exactly. The binders ready. And the binders are ready passing out handouts. And then a small team that was working on developing new methodologies and supporting and of the research and the ongoing efforts. R&D basically department I suppose. And a lot of very basic simple processes that helped the organization run, but a lot of things were done on Excel and a lot of decisions were made kind of one off rather than of the holistic. There was a process to making decisions and these are the who needs to know about these kind of decisions and whatever. So if you're willing, like describe the founder a bit to me, guys, I assume he's still there and you and he, he, she interacted heavily during this course. Yeah. So when I came on board, Jeff Hyatt was the founder was actually still even teaching some of the programs. So I got to attend the last program that he personally facilitated. Was it change management certification program up in Estus Park. And he was working on trying to figure out how to gracefully reduce the burden, right? You know, that, that backpack full of rocks that every founder sees you. And every new, every new employee is like another rock in the backpack, every new process, every new system. Quite a few, you know, really smart and proactive and intelligent young folks with not a lot of previous experience. Okay. And I still think that's a fantastic model, but it also means that sometimes you're solving problems in a way that's different than what, you know, maybe they've already been solved in other places. Yeah. The roadmap of experience would say, actually, just do this. Yeah. Yeah. But, but it was fun to work with that young energy, that team. So, you know, Jeff Hyatt had put together a great group of people who are really passionate about what they were doing, really committed to the benefits that we were providing to customers, to training participants and just really excited about the company, a lot of loyalty, a lot of passion for what we were doing. Sounds almost like the founder of Omega Church or something. But, you know, we did joke as, you know, the one of the biggest areas is decision-making. And so, we did joke pretty directly that when Jeff was gone for traveling or a vacation, the instruction was how, what would Jeff do, right? So we had to think about it as if we were Jeff, rather than, you know, building our own decision-making capabilities, and that didn't scale well. Right. Well, and as a confession of sorts or reflection, I was 35, 37, something like that, getting advanced in my career and banking when I realized that the smartest person in the room didn't always have all the best answers. Like there was no such person that always did. Yeah. If you could have six or eight or ten people in the room, and a list of questions, the best answer is going to come from a number of different folks. Mm-hmm. Each question, either collaboratively or from a different perspective. Or the best answer is really come from a little bit of extra perspective from everybody building into this better answer. And every group needs that consolidator that takes that and creates insight from the different ideas, and then that's what creates your best answer. Yeah. And sometimes that insight is, you know what? This person is right in this case, or sometimes that insight is a little bit from Colomé, a little bit from Colombegan, a little bit from Colombeci makes our best answer. Yeah, and it's not like sometimes people think of that as like compromise on all these ideas. But it's only the best little part. You know, it's like adding garlic to a recipe, it just makes it bacon, you know, it just makes it better. Yeah. So, okay, so you're training assistant, apparently, like you're already like, there's some really awesome things, the people love it here and stuff, but there's some things that need fixing, and here's one thing I can fix, and that where it starts, I'm just guessing really. Yeah. You know, just looking around this kind of one of my personal models is how can I do the very best for the job that I'm doing right now? And so being a training assistant, it was, well, you know, do we need to always hand out the handouts in this exact way, it would be maybe more efficient to try it this way. Or what if we packaged these materials in a different way, and maybe they wouldn't get damaged? Or, you know, just like little things that, if I add value at this part of the training program, even though I'm not an instructor, that makes a better experience for the participants. Maybe we can have people get 12 pages of stuff they write on, and then a whole digital handout that they can keep forever to reference back. Right. So, it was those kind of ideas. And to be fair, there were about three or four other people in the same role that we're traveling with these master instructors that were thinking about the same things at the same time. Sure. The flipping point in that role where the job role changed because we were collectively sharing our ideas with each other and changing it ourselves from the team that was doing that role. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. And so now all these training and master trainer guys are like, shoot, my training associates could all do this instead of me. No, I don't. Well, it was interesting. Yeah, pretty quickly, we all agreed that we could deliver the content, right? We've heard it so many times with this training assistant group. But at no time, did we ever think that that would be the best option because part of what was valuable was these folks who were doing the training had the stories and the experience and the personal just litany of successes and failures that they could use to bring it to life. So resident with like the local think tank model, I said that to many people that, you know, a school teacher or anywhere that's been trained in facilitation could serve fairly well in the role of a local facilitator, but to allow me to set what for one and also just to have that story and that bend there done that reflection is super important. Yeah. Because sometimes your experience informs what your question is going to be. Totally. Because the facilitator, it's important for me to ask a question to draw something out. But if you've personally been through that same situation or something similar, you can ask a better question to get to the heart of what that person may not be able to articulate themselves in. And so pro side would not be necessarily considered a consultant like, we'll fix your whole business. It's more about, we've got this project that needs to go well because we know there's some projects that go well, some that go with not as well and they would hire you to help them make sure this specific project will go well. Yeah. So what we talked a lot about, and this is speaking about pro side in 2008, 2009, because it's a different organization now, but 2008, 2009, we talked a lot about, we are not coming in to help you decide what change to make. But if you strategically as a leadership team know that there are changes, there are projects, there are things that need to be different for the success of your business. And your people need to lead that change? Exactly. We will give you the tools, we'll give you the research, we'll give you the training so that you can lead that change more effectively with your people in order to get the results for the business that you've set up to get. And so in 2008, 2009, in fact, consulting was kind of a bad word around the office. We talked very specifically about, we are not consultants, we won't come in, and this was actually a bone of tension. You're really more implementers on change. Yeah, we're sourced for tools and resources. We're not actually even writing your communications plan or creating your roadmap. We're telling you here is a tool to use to create a roadmap, why it's important, what you need to consider, but you are responsible for doing that. Yeah. And so, Proside today does have a robust advisory services component, is doing a lot more hands-on work and strategic work in the space of getting ready to make those changes successful. Yeah, yeah, that's really intriguing, are there the right changes to even make? You kind of go upstream from where you were serving before, and it sounds like you've, it looks in your face, at least part of your face, says that you at least planted some of those seeds. Yeah, I think probably more like nourished them. They were quite a few of the, especially like the senior instructors and the folks that have been out in the business world saying this has to be part of what we're doing. Right. So, when I took over the role of president, that was part of, like, did you go from training associate? Yeah, there's some steps in the middle. Well, it seems like it would be, but I'm also thinking about like the environment in, that you've got these mentor master trainer guys, but they're like older, mostly retired white dudes that don't want to work that hard, like a president has to. And then you've got all these kids running around supporting them, and so there's not really like a middle actually has a lot of experience except for the founder guy. Yeah, there's, there's, that's a mostly correct observation. I think the, the profile of the folks who are doing the facilitation is that yeah, they are not, at that time, we're not having, because they, right, it was like, what does the, what does the resort look like and how nice is the place for the training is going to be? And I want to give back and I'm on a trajectory in my career where it's not about climbing up, but it's about giving back. And then yes, a lot of really, a very intelligent, ambitious, capable people in the back office that was just a pleasure to work with. So one of the things that we did in 2009, this is getting to what came in between those steps, 2009, end of 2008, beginning 2009, economic downturn, training budgets are one of the first things that they cut. So what do we do? So they were, I actually can like picture the bullet pointed power point list of the initiatives. There were about seven or eight of them of new things that we were going to introduce as things were looking bad, what are, what are the ways that we can be setting ourselves to come back up out of that more successfully and better positioned? And so one of those was, how do we scale this internationally? And how do we develop a network of partners who are purchasing training materials from ProSci in the US, but delivering them on our behalf in Denmark and Dubai and Australia and South Africa? And so it was kind of one of those, well, I also lived in another country before. Why don't you be the, the director of that, the business manager for our partners, the global business network manager. And so I got an opportunity to help those businesses set up their programs for delivering ProSci's training. Like are they translating them? They're responsible for that and like, I don't know any Danish translators, so you're going to have to do that part. That's right. It was, it was a very much a scenario where we were trying to balance risk, right? Yes. So if you are going to make this work, here's like the basic agreement of what quality you have to do and how you have to deliver the programs and, um, and we make sure you understand that. And then we start to think about how do you adapt that for your market? What are things that will work or won't work that we do here that you need to adapt? And then translation is, you know, on the partner, but probably going to bring those people over to witness a training or two and, and so they got to speak English because otherwise it wouldn't know what's going on. And one of the other initiatives going on in that 2009 period was the creation of a train in the trainer program. So there was, in addition to the regular content certification, you can be certified to become a trainer. Uh, and so another member of the team was developing that. We were also creating some international conferences around the discipline of change management. And so there were opportunities for those partners to come and participate in a conference and then go on and have a little gym and a seat of having been here and met the founder of prosaim. Exactly. Um, the other thing I got to do though was to go visit them and to audit the delivery of their programs. Oh, cool. So, um, I traveled quite a few fun places in that 2009, 2010 timeframe, um, watching them deliver some of their first programs, providing feedback and coaching and actually being the training assistant in some cases and in other cases, just being a fly on the wall. They were presenting a program that you did in a language that you didn't know. Well, a, so for example, South Africa and even Denmark, it was, it was able to be presented in English. Danglish or whatever. Yeah. So at that time, they were all able to gather at least one cohort together that could, could participate in English. Cool. Yeah. So, um, so global business network manager, that's your kind of next step up. And then like, it sounds like this was successful. Like you created new revenue streams. And it was less, probably less of a big price per ticket, but a whole bunch more potential tickets with all these other trainers that would pay a license fee every time they delivered the goods and whatnot. That's right. And this was one of my first conscious lessons in scalability. Hmm. So we had a choice to go open an office in Denmark and pay for the human beings to be there and then charge the full rate of the training and receive all of those dollars into prosciase subsidiary in Denmark. Right. Or we partner with an existing established organization. They pay us, you know, say a third of the cost per person as a license fee or materials set cost. And then they're charging whatever makes sense in their market and they're making all the, you know, upside on the services. But we were able with, you know, one person myself in the global manager role. And then I brought a second person in, probably within nine months of that. So with basically two people to support nine partners and 13 or 14 instructors delivering classes all around the world. And so that scalability can look a lot of different ways. But you've got to be thinking as a business owner, how can I continue to, to touch more people with less resources or fewer resources per touch? Yeah. I think that's worth bringing out. And like you and this other person, like your combined payroll was maybe a hundred grand, 120 grand in those years or something like that benefits and whatnot. And then I don't, I won't even ask you how many revenues, but with all these trainers paying a third of their grab, you know, that's got to be a million dollars or more. And so that's really high margin, even though it sounds like it's lower margin revenue to begin with, it's high margin because of the, every revenue stream needs to be managed. And if a big revenue stream like that can be only managed with two people, boom, yeah. And that really continues to sit with me now as a philosophy and approach is thinking about, you know, how can we touch more customers, provide more services, provide more product with less resource, not to undercut the value and the quality. But what are the ways that we can scale through either technology or a different business model or a different client relationship structure? Right. Well, and I'm flashing back forward to the warehouse now. We'll come back to this final promotion, but with the warehouse of finally having real estate, like to a certain extent, for what you're trying to create, I've really almost considered almost like a base need because so many startup scale ups and I'm thinking about like short-term leases and access to shared technology and shared collaboration and resources and mentors. It just makes it so much easier to be able to scale, to be able to touch. That's right. It's other examples of ways that you can reduce the overhead of the cost of your doing business by being flexible in, you know, only paying for as much space as you need in the time frame that you need it and not investing in those big capital expenditures like testing equipment right away. You know you'll need them eventually, but right now if you're using them once a week, you can share them with some other folks. Yeah. I'm just thinking to myself right now that if I invested heavily in just creating a freaking killer training mechanism for facilitators for local think tank chapters, and they just offered it almost as a low price or online class to people that would want to take that, and then offered less support in the building of the chapters. Some people that took that course would be like they're in Kalamazoo Michigan and they're like, oh yeah, but I got a chapter and we can provide them continuing support because nobody wants to do the building as a newsletter or be all alone on an island. Yeah. All right. Well, no, I'm not going to steal your first warehouse in the middle of this conversation. But if you know anybody that should be my trainer, I'll take introductions at some point. So let's come back to the career path and let's, so I'm guessing the rumblings are getting louder. Jeff wants to work less and, you know, yeah, pick me back up. Yeah. It was some fits and starts trying to figure out how he could relieve some of that burden right the way of that with different structures, different people taking on different pieces of the process. But it still came back to this persistent reality that when the founder was at the end of the day able to override any decision, then nobody made the decision until they could hear it from the founder. And so that, and that was clearly burdening some to everybody, right? It wasn't working. And so, yeah, I had an opportunity to learn about a little bit more of the operations of the business beyond just the global network and started having conversations with Jeff about, you know, what he wanted. And it wasn't, it wasn't my role to come in and coach him, but I'm just curious. And so, would ask him questions about what was going on or what he was thinking. Yeah. Which is your, he's your direct report now with this, I suppose. Yeah, and that led to, you know, I'm sharing more than I was fishing for, right? It wasn't, it wasn't a fishing expedition, but I'm started to kind of see where he was headed and that this was something that in his life needed to evolve to a different relationship with the business. And so, I guess one day, I directly asked, are you planning to sell this company? And he said, well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since you asked it that directly, I can't like tell you an untruth, so I'm thinking about it. Yeah. And so that was the first kind of thought that maybe something pretty big was going to happen. He also, I like to tell the story went on a speaking tour, South Africa, Italy and the Middle East. It was gone for a month, and so that was kind of a trial run. How does this work? And when he came back, I had a list of, you know, these are some things that happened. These are some decisions I need you to weigh in on. These are some things you need to know about. And I just remember him saying at the end of that conversation, you're hired. I thought, what, what are you talking about? I already work here, whatever. He's like, no, I think it's time, and I'd like you to think about what that would look like for you to take on the leadership role of continuing this forward. Wow. Yeah. It was one of those life-changing moments where you know the trajectory of your life is about to church. Right. And you're what? You're 29? Yeah. There's tissues right up there. Should we take a quick break? Sure. All right. And we're back. And so you said what? You said interesting. Okay. Let's do this. Right. Just kind of roll up your sleeves and figure out what that means. And I think looking back, I really didn't realize what all that meant and the weight that came with it. But it was just the next opportunity. Yeah. Right. So let's say yes to the next opportunity and see what happens. And this is 2011, 2010? Yeah. Right at the end of 2011. Okay. Okay. So what did that mean? Like, was he like, here's the keys? No. No. So we set out basically a one-year transition plan, which included the process of working with private equity investors to take over his ownership of the company. Yeah. Gotcha. So there was that whole process, which was a completely different learning experience. What is it like to bring in a- Did you get a piece of the pie or anything along the way or not? So not- That's kind of personal. Yeah. No. So in the initial transaction, no. And then we were able to earn- Or some potential kind of, yeah. With the private equity business, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. So, you know, we thought about the whole process of getting investment bankers and going through top to bottom all your contracts and everything that might be asked for and do diligence. You know, that moment, that period of time was when I learned more about the inner workings of the business and how investors think and what kinds of questions you need to be able to answer. Yeah, what pre-cash flow is. Yeah. And what multipliers are. And IRR and all these other things that, you know, they're asking about and calculating in their models. Yeah, exactly. So we presented the dog and pony show to a number of different equity firms and ultimately found one actually based in Denver that worked well. And ultimately, he's like, he's like, they're in the dog and pony show and he's like, I'm the founder. I'm leaving. But Alison's your girl. It's going to be cool. Yeah. And it wasn't Alison exclusively, right? There's a team, right, of people that were presented as this is the group that's going to lead the company forward. Now, that team hadn't necessarily all jailed and worked together as a leadership team for the year prior. There were some, there were some potholes there that were pretty major that we still kind of felt a couple of years later in the business and things that I would do differently, looking back, knowing what I know now. Do you want to, are there two private to share with all of them? I think I'll hold those back for a different context. But, you know, we went through both a transition internally with, you know, setting people's expectations about how decisions were made and, you know, what Jeff was available for and what he was not available for and then when the transaction went through, right, when the paper was signed and the ink was dry, that was the time when he stepped down as the president. And I stepped into that role. Okay. And then was he just gone or was he like the chairman of the board or is he state invested in the state invested in as a member of the board? Okay. But operationally, he was off the books. And the message to customers so as not to create waves and ripples was Jeff's taking a different role. He's not as much involved in the day-to-day, but he's still around. Yeah. That don't freak any customers out, don't freak anybody out really and really like to a large extent, it's like a, that's kind of the goal line for business owners is to get to a place where I don't have to work so hard, but I've got a machine that stays alive and adds value to the world after me. Yeah. And I think when you go with a private investment route, there are certain key relationships that you have to tell, right, for the relationship purposes, for transparency purposes, with key vendors, important employees and stakeholders. But it wasn't a situation where there's a press release and the whole world knows that there's now new ownership that wasn't the path that we took. Yeah. So tell me about, if you're willing, tell me about the communications to the staff, to the team. There was probably you and two or three or four other of your besties that were like, all right, but you were the first because you were the one that was in the dark room with Jeff when he was like, I'm out. Yeah. So that rolled out quite interestingly. We had, there were four of us that basically made up that go forward team and each one was brought in at a slightly different time. The financial person was there pretty quickly and it was, in fact, probably the one that prompted the whole conversation in the first place. And then the development officer, the brains of the operation was quickly thereafter. Especially as we brought the investment bankers in. And then we recognized that we needed one more person from the training operations side. And so brought that additional person in admittedly too close to the moment in time. So here's one of the principles of change leadership. When you're talking to someone who has to manage people, they have two transitions to manage their own personal thoughts and feelings and those of their team. And if you don't give a manager or a leader of people an opportunity to process through their own changes and their own personal impacts first, they are much less ready to manage the changes for their team. And so that was something we didn't do well in that training operation side of the business. Yeah. Didn't give enough time for that personal transition. Yeah. Fair enough. So then basically a couple of years in that president role. Yeah. So I was there for about five years. So we were with one private equity company for four years and then went through the whole process again to, oh, yeah, 2013 right in here, but yeah, sorry. And then a second private equity transaction took place at the end of 2016. Interesting. I stayed for a year past that and then so some of your folks that stayed, got some chips and grew the value of the organization, added some new revenue streams. That's right. Yeah. So we added the consulting advisory services that we talked about earlier, moved our tools and resources out of paper and Excel and into a SaaS platform. So there is a technology and software component. Part of what the PE brings is, hey, we're not only going to buy you, we're going to invest a fair bit of money into you to make you have a better tool kit so that you can take this to more people. If there are clear ways to use that money, that's on the table. Yeah. Right. It's already in the process. Yeah. It's not just, you don't, this is I think a common misconception. If you have a VC or PE money coming in is not a given that the purchase price of the company ends up as a check in the bank account of the business. Those terms need to be very clearly articulated and understood ahead of time. And I think people in the business, maybe employees have, in particular, have a misconception that, you know, this money is all going to be at our disposal and that's not necessarily the case. No, it's just disposal mostly. Right. Right. Somebody was still relatively, you know, actually going to pay the rent every month. And the funds that then become available to us are the funds that we go to the bank and take out as a loan. And so, um, well, the company had been growing through this time partly because of all you training assistants were like, Hey, we're going to bond together and make this thing work. Um, so you were maybe 30, 40 people by the time that the PE first came in. Yep. I believe that's about right. Maybe three or 34 for that first transaction in 2016, excuse me, 2012. And then by the time I was stepping away in 2018, we were right about to crack the hundred employee mark with offices, physical offices in Canada and Australia, as well as the US. Oh, yeah. So we had actually taken that model of scaling and chosen a couple select markets to say, you know what? Actually, we need to be direct here. So you did both. You added more to your core team, going to deliver that base product in the similar way that you had always been, but probably adding more revenues onto existing customers. So you're like, we've been helping you implement changes that you decided upon, but let's help you decide if it's the right changes. Well, that we didn't quite get into as much of that. It was more, you know, we're working with multinational companies, so we've been able to help you here in the US. We have an office in Australia that can help with the implementation of the same international project with your employees in Australia. We also were looking at ways to bring different types of training, so not just training for the change management professionals, but also for managers and employees. So we have more resources, virtual trainings that you can send out and translate into all the languages of your operations. And did you have to do like a revision of some of your mission and your values and things along the way? Because you were very, hey, we don't know what to do. We just help you do it before. Yeah. So the mission statement, like the vision of what this company was all about, didn't change, but how we talked about it did and the values was a fun exercise. So for the first 15 years of the business, there were not a set of stated values. There were felt and experienced values. And so one of the things that I did early on with Jeff's input was try to articulate what those perceived values are and put them in such a way that they can grow with the business without change. It is a big deal to say we're changing our values. Totally. And so we did, we did implement strategic plans each year that talked about those values in a different way and how we were going to focus on this or that one year over another. We did work pretty hard not to change the vision statement of the company and the values of the company. There's wordplay here. Felt and experienced is what you said. I said perceived and then you repeated perceived. Felt and experienced is actually more precise because some values are really felt and then sometimes they're experienced. Yeah. I think that's right. Sometimes you don't recognize that you are experiencing a value. You just know it feels uncomfortable to deviate from it. Right. And then sometimes there's actual consequences. Yeah. When you're late, boss is pissed or whatever. If one of our values was about creating unforgettable experiences for the people in our client network, when you think about how do we move from an in-person training to a virtual training, we still apply that same value of creating unforgettable exceptional experiences. But if someone comes in to facilitate a training program like one of our partners around the world and they don't have that same passion for creating a memorable experience, it's really evident really quickly and those are the types of folks that didn't go forward as partners because they were not demonstrating those values. And sometimes they self-elected because they couldn't get traction in their marketplace because they just weren't as excited about it as you were. Yeah. So talk to me about the second transition or the departure, if you will. This was after the second private equity came in. Yeah. So one of the thoughts, not as cool as the old boss. Nope. That wasn't it at all. Nope. Nope. It was more along the lines of, I can see forward and project what does a company at the stage that pro size at and where it will be, where it's headed. What do they need in a CEO? And those types of activities and those types of decisions that need to get made and the living in the strategy sphere almost all the time, those types of things were not the things that I wanted to continue doing. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. It's your integrator. Yeah. Exactly. I like jumping back and forth between the strategy of why we're doing it and how that tangibly manifests in the shipping room and in individual activities that people are doing and kind of helping those, all those pieces hold together and just like we had talked about with Jeff at the point where he was moving out of the business. I was also creating some of those barriers to growth because what I was passionate about and wanted to do was not what the business needed. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you're probably like in a way you're much more comfortable with the role of president than CEO and you had grown to a place where there needed to be a CEO that was really living there with that president slash almost execution manager operations manager role. Yeah. But you were perfect for the time. Yeah. I'm very proud of what we accomplished in those five years and how what I was asked to do and what I set out to do and help the business transition away from the original founder to something that is scalable and sustainable and successful that that was accomplished. And that was another part of the process. I mean, I did what I set out to do and I am I prepared to change myself to the degree to do what is needed next and ultimately I decided that I could probably use my passions in a different way in a different place. Also personal family things, you know, second child was on the way and wanted to have those moments with. Yeah. Less more than more more. Yeah. So did you have a hand in deciding who was going to be the new big cheese or was that just the I had a choice in mind and and worked with the existing leadership team and ultimately it was between that existing leadership team and the private equity company. I got to state my case and what I thought should happen, but it wasn't my decision. And it ended up being the decision that I wanted to see. So it was a great all around. But yeah, it was kind of a couple of awkward moments there where I was going to leave the room now because it's not relevant and yeah, she really can't hear this part. Doesn't have a role at this in this conversation. And you stay in touch with a bunch of those people, I'm sure, and this process continued to flourish and how to COVID impact them in training and stuff. And do you want to share any of that? Yeah. So I've been following, processed and connected with a couple of members of the executive team and other, you know, just friends and colleagues that we work together for 10 years. Some really hard things together. Yeah. So of course you're bonded. Professional, but COVID was very impactful to the organization. And I would say with pride in my voice, that process came out better for it. But we'd been talking about for years transitioning from an in-person experience for a certification to a virtual learning experience. And I mean, I think we were talking about it for at least six years. And it happened in a weekend. Right. But, you know, it had to happen quickly because, you know, one week, there were seven or eight sessions happening all across the U.S. and the next week no one could travel. And we had people signed up for another. Right. And everybody wonders if their price is still the same and what's the story. So there were lots of those decisions. Do we, what do we do with pricing? How do we facilitate and create a great experience? But you weren't there. I wasn't there. You weren't there. I got to observe it. And something other isn't whatever. Right. I got to observe it from an arm's length. And another really important thing I think that Prosah did through COVID was to talk about the things that were happening to companies and individuals from the context of change. Yeah. We don't know what, you know, what the right answer is, but what we know is how people experience change. Right. And there was a lot of great work by Tim Creasy, the Chief Innovation Officer and the R&D team. And how do you transition? She's a brand guy. That was there still. How do you transition to a hybrid work environment? How do you, how do you work with people and help manage virtual teams? Yeah. It's all connected, even though you're not. And it's all a change in behavior that connection piece is so important. And I think, you know, Prosah really did a great job of adding important value into that conversation. Well, I think one thing that I hope when people listen to this daily, like, oh, Prosah, because warehouse has actually more community visibility than Prosah. Even though Prosah is having a lot of impact on a lot of companies around the world every week, every day, and employees still 100 people or have they, I don't know, actually don't know. There we are right now. Whatever. But lots of really smart, dedicated people are bringing value to the world through that mechanism. Yeah. That's actually one of the more interesting pieces of my transition from Prosah to the warehouse. So I led a business that employed a lot of people here in Northern Colorado, but I had almost no connection to the community because what we did was not something that was consumed here in Northern Colorado. And so it's been really exciting to see a couple of key individuals and a couple of key companies in the region start to utilize Prosah. So I know the city of Fort Collins implemented, Ames Community College implemented certain training components. And so there's more awareness now than there was. But at the time I left, I think we probably had about four clients in all of Colorado. Right. So let's go ahead and transition to the closing segments, the face family politics, which would you like to take on first? Ooh, let's start with family. Okay. So one of the things I enjoy doing is one word descriptions for your children. Do you want to tell me about, is it a boy and a girl? Yes, I have a six year old girl and a three year old boy. And do you kind of share their names and their one word description? So Eliza is six. And she is passion personified. That's two words. That's okay. Yeah. And the three year old. He's got his Luke and he is a home body. Interesting. He likes his routine. He likes to be at home. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's so fun notice, like I'm the kind of guy that will order something new at a restaurant where I know I love six things because there's a new thing. Yeah. And I always want something new. That is not Luke. Yes. And anyway, so it's just fun to see those patterns evolve in people. But that's very useful. Like there's a great utility for people that think like that and act like that in the world. So, so how do, how do, how are Eliza and Luke together? They have developed a pretty fun relationship recently. We took a road trip to Wyoming and Montana over the summer and they spent more time together over that week than they have maybe in their whole lives. At any given time. And there are siblings, spats and squabbles and things, but when it comes down to it, they care about each other and always, you know, in the parade ask if I can have an extra candy for my brother or. There's nothing like a big sister, honestly. I think that should almost all well. I guess a big brother to protect that little sister, but big sisters are way more useful. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about your husband. So my husband, Dave is a web developer, like I said, we met in Japan. So he was teaching and then spent a little bit of time in the construction industry before going back to school to earn his web development credentials. And he was hired right out of school at Weld County. So he does the websites for the Weld County government. Nice. Interesting. Well, they work pretty good. I've used them. There you go. They're all in love with them. Oh, my goodness. Because he's the tall white guy. Well, no, that's not necessarily why I'm teaching a little bit. Yeah. No, he's funny and very thoughtful, very deliberate and considering where he is in the world and who he is in the world. And I appreciate that very much. I'm very super proud of you. I think so. Yeah. You're making me blush. Why did he fall in love with you? I don't know. We did connect, I think, through a church. So there's not a lot of English-speaking churches in Japan. Yeah, there's one in that big city that you were in. Yeah. So there were two. One was a church with an American Lutheran missionary pastor and the other was a non-denominational church planted by a Japanese pastor who had spent some time in the U.S. and so I had heard through the grapevine that Dave was going to this other church and so I said I'd like to come visit. Oh, excuse me. I was fired him out. Well, I said I'd like to come visit and so, and then I met his girlfriend, so. Oh. So that was an interesting time. So we were good friends for a year and a half before we had happened. Yeah, that's, I mean, sometimes that's the way it works. So what else would you have me know about family? Well, yeah, my, so my parents, my parents moved here to Colorado from Virginia when the grandkids were born. They're one of the, that's everybody I meet. Like 60% of the people I meet are 50, 60-somethings moving to where their children will never move away from. Yeah. Well, that was part of the deal when they moved here. It was like, if you, if you leave this region, we'll disown you because we moved here for you. Right. Okay. Yeah. And then my younger brother lives out in San Diego. He spent some time in China. So his, his Asian experience is parallel to mine, but a little bit different. He's a great, kind of start up sales and marketing, sales structure, set up kind of guy, operations guy. And he's working for a biopharmacumbany. Maybe I should hire him instead, I don't know. Well, he would, he would do a great job, no matter what the organization, what's his name? His name is Carl with a K. With a K, who fancy, would you like to give him a one-word description, too? Ooh. Ambition. Nice. Yeah. He's a three-year-something of the underground. Yes. Tell me about your folks and like show some love. I can tell that you're really proud of the people that they are. Yeah. If you'd care to just share a little bit about your mom's thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. So my dad, like I said, high school math teacher. He was my math teacher when I was in high school. No. So I got to have that experience of seeing the impact that he made on people's lives. And he's still doing that now as he's retired. He's a trail runner. So he runs 50, 100 kilometer races up in the mountains and being, you know, a little bit on the older edge now as often helping some of those like new runners and young, especially, you know, women who are trying out trail running for the first time, given them tips and pointers and helping make sure they're safe out there. Yeah. Encouragement is a lot of money when you're running. Encouragement. So life-long learner, he went back to school to get a master's in exercise science just because he could and he likes those kind of things. My mom was a great caretaker and just a server. Like she loves to serve her grandkids now and her family. She made something like now 800 masks over COVID because that was one thing that she could do. Just get scraps of material and make masks. I got a soy machine. Yeah. There you go. She sends them all over the country and all over the world just to friends and family who could use them. She worked at a credit union and so had that kind of professional career as well. She was the one that was there for us making sure that mostly after you guys didn't need quite as much attention. Yeah, after we went to school and yeah, yeah. Cool. It's kind of like the great Americana family, right? I hate to say it, but well, and we'll talk maybe more in politics, but like the nuclear family that has stable parents that exhibit good values and stuff, they're the people that create the people that create jobs and legacies. Yeah, my brother and I actually talked about this just pretty recently. There's kind of this checklist that you can do an assessment for at-risk children with certain kind of components of their background in history, having experienced homelessness, have you experienced these things, one parent being missing or absent, food insecurity, like all these things. We went through the checklist and we said we can't check anything. Right. We're so blessed. Me too. Free school lunch all through my high school years, I was poor, but fairly, I didn't always poor. One amazing thing that they did for us too, since my dad was a school teacher, he had the summers off. We got to take these extended camping trips across the country when we were kids and so they showed us, they showed us national parks, they showed us what we should be curious about Africa. And then we went to Africa, right? So I'm just forever grateful. Yeah, cool. Do you have other family grandparents or things that have been especially impactful to you that you want to shout out even if you're gone? Yeah, shout out to all my grandparents. I have one living grandmother, 93 years old, and she took care of my grandfather for years while he, after he had a stroke. And both my grandmother's actually had that same story. They were great caretakers for their husbands even as they lost their capabilities to move in function. And yeah, my father's parents were dairy farmers and I loved spending summers on the farm and feel like I got that kind of little connection to agriculture through them. Get your fingers dirty once for us, good for everybody. So that's family. I feel like we covered that pretty well. Faith politics. Yeah. Choose your poison. Let's go, Faith. Okay. So my, both my parents, families all come out of the Mennonite tradition. So yeah, we went to a Mennonite church in Virginia and went to a Mennonite high school. And so I grew up learning that sort of Protestant mainstream kind of thing, but with an interesting angle. Yeah, I care not to participate in some of these things. So that's what you're going to hear when I get to the politics section. Okay. Not good. But yeah. So emphasis on some social justice and social service. Yeah. Like they could like legally not be in war because their religion was literally like, we don't do that. Yeah, pacifism is an important part of that tradition. And so actually got, you know, educated, it didn't apply to me because I wasn't, didn't have to register for the selective service as a woman. But if I were ever to need to do that, what I would need to document to show that this is not just trying to get out of it for the sake of getting out of it, but a deeply held religious belief. So we talked about that in, you know, youth group in church and school and also in school. But otherwise like theologically philosophically, it's largely what we would consider mainline Protestantism. Yes. With a quicker influence. Yeah, there's, there's some close ties there. We had hoot rates in my, actually, my dad's younger sister spent a lot of time teaching at a hoot rate colony as a school teacher. Yeah. So there's, as with any kind of group, there's quite a spectrum of how isolated from the world you, you want to be and how you choose to manifest that, you know, the extreme end of the spectrum would be hoot rate colony or Amish, you know, men makes as much less, I guess. And like more conservative men and nights that are maybe, you know, somewhere in between. And the Baptist just pretend to do that way. Well, I don't know. I always comment on that. You know, to the church that I went to, I mean, everybody, it dressed like everybody else and. Okay. So there was very little less, I mean, it was more of a theological affiliation, but the new world had taken over or whatever and we were still part of it. Yeah. And so the way you went to, the way you show up by being kind of separating yourself from the world is more in your internal attitudes and your internal state of mind about how we show love in the world. And we're living in a way where we're trying to usher in a new way of thinking about loving our neighbors. And, you know, it's really what our relationship is to God and our neighbors. Maybe it's about serving, it's about loving. And who our neighbors are, it means they're everybody. So we shouldn't kill them. Right. Right. And so you're saying we are, you remain active in the meta-night phase, you know, would you say? And, yeah. Yeah. So since moving to Colorado, haven't plugged into a meta-night church specifically when, you know, you've got two members of a family, a couple relationship, you got to find out. And where does that go? And where does that go? Charismatic tradition. Yeah. So I got a good church that's a compromise between those two, by the way. I'll tell you about it more after we get offline. Yeah. Yeah. So we've stumbled around to a couple of different. You hold your face, remaining. And so- Definitely influenced me and continues to be what motivates me to, like you asked what makes you want to serve and help businesses. And I see it as a way. I can use experiences to better our community that we live in by helping businesses grow successfully to, for the purpose of creating those opportunities for- Creating jobs. Creating jobs, right? From the useful for people to do, because what is better than, like, what feels better than helping somebody accomplish something. And that's basically what businesses do, kind of. Yeah. So thanks for the sharing that. Is there, like, is there, like, a faith moment for you that we'd care to share with those that might be listening? Oh, I mean- Because I'm sure, like, most people do wonder, right? Yeah. The right thing to believe or not. You know, it's just interesting as I've been going down this path with the warehouse, the number of different individual conversations that I've had. With people that I didn't know where they stood religious-wise or faith-wise, who spoke words that resonated with what I'm thinking and feeling inside my head. And then you come to find out, well, they're- they're looking at it from a faith tradition as well. Yeah. So it's just so many of those connections without- without standing on the street corner saying, this is a mission, right? Right. It- It comes through and is validated in other people who see that as well. We're both in a mission field right now, I would say. My friend, Jacob, he was kind of- when we podcasted, he was, I guess, I wouldn't call it evasive about the faith question, but he was like, well, I kind of just stood back and looked at who were the people that I most admire that had the best businesses and were the nicest to their wives and things like that. And they were all these Christian guys, so I was like, might as well be one of those. And sometimes it feels kind of that way. There's certainly exceptions where there's real assholes where you're like, I don't think this guy deserves to be in this place, but God does what he wants. But more often than we expect sometimes, faith has a big part of people that really make an impact. Yeah. I would agree with that. Yeah. So, political. Yeah. So, I am proudly unaffiliated. I talk to some of my friends who play in the political sphere and they say, you know, if you're going to play in politics, you just, you know, got to cut your losses and pick a team. And I just refused to pick a team because there are things about each end of the spectrum. You're a libertarian. You're a closet libertarian. Whatever. That I believe in wholeheartedly. You just don't want to always be in the losing team. Well, I don't want to hitch my wagon to a whole platform, half of which I agree with and half of which I don't. So, I choose to take that path and vote for individual candidates of character when it comes to, you know, elections related to specific offices and then, you know, vote and support and advocate for policy positions that I think on balance will make our community and our nation a better place to live. So, are you a fixer or a mixer? More of a fixer. Oh, that's okay. Yeah. I won't judge. Did you read my article? I, I, I don't think I did, but I think I know where you're going. Well, it was a, uh, maybe last April, uh, the fixers take center stage and it was like, well, they're going to fix this COVID thing by locking down and this and that. And the nixers are like, we should just not do any government, the least possible government. And, and honestly, I don't know if I'm a nixer completely. I'm kind of a cynical guy, but, um, but I do recognize the utility of especially financial tools and motivations to get people to do the things that are good for the world. Uh, yeah, I think the reason I said fixer is because I think if we can make, if we can take action, we, we should, but I'm going to challenge you on that because the warehouse is like, one of the draws to you is that it's filling a space that's not fulfilled by government should probably never be fulfilled by government and is funded and provided for by business, succeeders that see a need, and, and that's where I'm kind of like, people will see needs and fill needs if the opportunity is available to them. Yeah. I would say like the way that that fits into my philosophy is we should, if we can take action and make something better, we should and that can be through a government's fear and it can be through the private sphere and it shouldn't be one or the other. Yeah. One at the detriment of the other. Fair, fair. I was just actually thinking about the Ausset lawn center next door to me and realistically, it's a great resource for the community. I see lots of kids going in there. I know lots of people that use that to get their exercise and fitness and things. There's meeting spaces, but probably no private investor was going to try to build a facility like that to try to serve the community that that organization serves. Yeah, there are some things that we need as a society that don't make money. That's not the only outcome and measurement that should drive everything. There are some things, I mean, I would say roads that we need them, but there's a very few limited places where a road can be a for-profit success. Fair. Fair. All right. What's your, like, if there's somebody in politics on a national stage or something that you really resonate with or you just don't really, you're a free thinker all the way down. I guess I... I look at it mostly in a national scale from my philosophies around leadership. So it's less so that there's somebody who's policies and positions I'm all in favor of. But more of this is how they show up in the world and that's how I want to show up in the world. So, like, I'm thinking about Obama, frankly, with his change theme and he's sexy, beautiful message generally and things. I think, you know, I would argue with some of the things that he did, as far as executive power. Like, Congress is like this pathetic little thing nowadays after Trump and Obama, but he was pretty cool. And he at least put forward a stance of seeking input from experts and really taking and listening to that, and he didn't always make the same decision that every expert. But he wanted to hear from different perspectives and take that in and make a decision. And so that's one example of something that I could say, you know, positive about Barack Obama that I did in May, was that he didn't claim to be the smartest person on every subject. And I think it would be disingenuous to say that you are for anybody. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But it doesn't know what that word means anymore. No, I'm teasing. Anyway. So, face family politics and boom, the local experience. Have you decided which story or stories you'd like to share? So you set me up that this was going to be a question that would come. What's one of the most local experiences I've had? The crazy experience. And tell you the one that popped in my head very first. So in college, I had an opportunity to travel back to Africa. I flew to Nairobi, where I had lived and spent some time there, went back to the school that I attended. Happy New, probably. Happy New, probably. Happy New. Happy New, probably. I went on a beach vacation by myself. So I'm traveling as a single white female across the continent and doing some of these adventures. And some places I had people I knew and some places I didn't. One of the places I did not have anyone I knew was in Harare's in Bobway. So I was just transferring one night through Harare to get on to the next destination, actually was going to a conference in Bulawea. And I didn't make any plans for where I was going to stay. I figured I would show up at the airport and have someone take me to a hostel or a hotel in a taxi. That was my plan. Well, sitting at the airport in Nairobi, another couple that was on the same flight said, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that. Like that's not a wise plan. You're coming with us. So it was this Canadian couple, probably in their 60s, who had this loose connection to a pastor. It was a missionary in Harare. And so this couple took me along with them, didn't call ahead or say that I was coming and just showed up with an extra person and said, she's staying here tonight. And I felt like that was really important to my safety. I'm glad that they did. But it was one of the craziest experiences because this family that we stayed with were dealing in the currency on the black market because the currency was just so out of whack at that time. Inflation was going crazy. And so there was official exchange rates and then black market exchange rates. And they had people coming and going all the time doing all this, what felt like really a shady business. And then some of them might have wanted to buy a young white girl. And then they had they we went out for the most delicious steak dinner I have ever had in my life at this amazing restaurant and it was so surreal. And the whole time I'm going, where am I? How did I get here? What is going to happen to me? And then the next morning, I got a taxi back to the airport. They were actually their driver arranged for, you know, my ride. And then I was off to the next place. I don't know any of their names. I don't know anything really about them or why they were okay with their guests to spring and other personal. Well, I mean, I just look back at that and go that was the craziest night. What do they think? I love it. I forever ago, my wife and I stayed with a family in Lusquay, Oming because our alternator went out on our Subaru and she and her daughter jumped our car like five times to get us to her house. And then we stayed the night and then we drove to Torrington and put the alternator in and I have no idea who that was like I did it at the time. It was 20 years ago. Yeah. I love that story. What else would you have people know? Like, how do we find people find, let's even throw Prociobone. Yeah, Prociobone. Prociobone. How do you find Prociobone? Yeah. www.prociprlsci.com Prociobone offers a great set of free webinars as my top recommendation on how to plug in to Prociobone. There are basic intro topics that are available on demand and there are live webinars and there are some of the best webinars I've ever seen presented just in terms of another quality and the way that it plays out and the experience that you have in a one hour webinar session. And then I think you're going to ask warehouse. Well, warehouse, yeah, that's the main thing. Yeah. So, Warehouse Business Accelerator's website is warehouseinnovation.com and that's a great way to find us. And that's warehouse, W-A-R-E, like software and house, H-O-U-S-E, innovation, I-N-N-O-V-A-D-I-O-N, .com. And then we offer tours of the Innovation Hub, the new warehouse facility every Tuesday morning at 9.30 through the rest of 2021. So if you're listening to this in 2021 and would love to come check out what we've got going on, would invite you on Tuesday mornings at 9.30. Very cool. And I guess finally, like where do you see the warehouse going, like in, and the forge? The forge campus. We should talk about the forge campus too. Let's give them a bone. Yeah. So the forge campus is what was the former Hewlett-Packard facility in Loveland. So the forge campus was recently acquired by Northern Colorado business owners who are running that the whole campus for the purpose of helping businesses grow. So they're entrepreneurs. They want to fill up the space with businesses that need room to grow, that need industrial infrastructure. It's beautiful space. It's 800,000 square feet on 177 acres up on the top of the hill with views to the west and the east, just outside of downtown. Look up for a brewery or a distillery perhaps to occupy a very special spot on the campus. Exactly. And so the forge campus donated the 50,000 square feet to the warehouse business accelerator. Oh. I thought it was just extra cheap, but donated. No, donated it in kind to the nonprofit accelerator as a give back to the community. So we're really appreciative and grateful to the forge campus for allowing us to be there and be part of the work that they're doing. One more thing, like who are the ideal, we're coming up on fire, but who are the ideal ideal people that would occupy the warehouse? So warehouse target is it's being designed for businesses that make something. So businesses that produce a physical technology or piece of equipment. So instrumentation, Internet of things. Digital printing, manufacturing of any sort. Exactly. A little bit of office space. And there's a little bit of office space to go with it. But if you need a plug-in play production facility. So we're talking about businesses, typically, you know, they've been in existence for a couple of years, but are now scaling and growing and need a place to land. Maybe not ready to sign that five-year lease on 10,000 or 20,000 square feet, but need a flexible opportunity to grow their company just in this time that they have a need. And then- And not to go bankrupt if it doesn't work. Right. Exactly. So we're talking about businesses who are selling things already, not brand new startups, but technology manufacturing companies who are scaling and want some support and infrastructure in that process. Well, I hope a whole bunch of- Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Locoh Experience Podcast. This is your host, Kurt Bear, and founder of The Locoh Think Tank. If you or someone you know would be a great guest for our show, or if you'd like to learn more about our small business on our peer advisory chapters at Locoh Think Tank, please visit our website at locohthinktank.com or email us at connectatlocoh thinktank.com. That's L-O-C-O-thinktank.com. If you've been enjoying this series, don't forget to subscribe, and we love great reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening, and don't forget, always keep it local.