EXPERIENCE 4 | Mike Labate with Rocky Mountain Westy, Mr. Mechanic, and Van Cafe

Welcome to the LOCO Experience Podcast with LOCO Think Tank Founder Kurt Bear. Listen in as Kurt digs deep into the business and life stories of business owners and thought leaders at different stages of growth from all walks of life. Launching and growing anything can be a crazy experience, so expand your thinking and level up your understanding of what it takes to find success in the world of free enterprise. Here we are again at the LOCO Experience Podcast. Today I'm with my good friend and LOCO co-founder, Mike LeBate, and I've known Mike for probably going on 10 years and it's been a LOCO experience, the business journey you've taken. Mike, would you just kind of ground everybody and set the stage of who you are while you're here today? Good afternoon. My name is Mike LeBate. I'm here as a guest of Kurtz and honorable guests of Kurtz. I'm honored to always share and collaborate and talk with them. I started my business journey in four Collins in 2001, 2002, right about there and just kind of learned about the different things and how the right way and the wrong way to run a business is and me and Kurt have this little joke we actually met at a bank and I was a naive business owner that thought all I needed was my word to say that I would repay the loan, but really I needed a whole lot more than that, apparently. Well, you're a way upside down and I'm building that you just button, so. Right. That was the building block of your eventual enterprise, so yeah, so kind of the serious or non-serious joke was I was I was on Kurtz, most 10 likely to go bankrupt, roll at the bank. No, I think you were top three. Top three. Yeah, top three. They were like, when I walked out of the bank every time they were like, man, we're not going to see that guy again. They were going to bank that guy, but so that was, you know, that was right after the recession and right at the start, actually at the start of the 2008 recession and yeah, we just kind of built from there, you know, just started the whole learning process of what it takes to be an entrepreneur and it takes more than the idea and the desire it takes the commitment and the understanding and willingness to learn what it is and how it comes and how to react and all the things. Sometimes, and sometimes the willingness to live like a coyote for a period of years to let the business have enough space to grow up. Yeah, it's, you know, at the end of the year when you, in the world of S Corps at the end of the year when you pay your taxes, you're like, where did all that money go? It's like, well, you know, lots of it gets reinvested in the company and all the things, you know, and you have to, yeah, you have to live on a meager, meager salary to get to it. But those big salaries are just around the corner for both of us, right? That's what we keep telling you. We've been saying it for years. Right, right. Well, I would like to maybe get into kind of the start of business because you were probably in business for five or six years of sorts by that juncture when you bought that building and things. But let's just talk about even sooner than that. Let's set the stage. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? So yeah, grew up in New Jersey, Northern New Jersey, which is a very rural area actually right in the Appalachian Mountains and right on the Appalachian Trail and Delaware Water Gap area. And it was a great area. And that was actually pretty much started self-employment at the age of 19. And it started by wrecking my 87 Volkswagen GTI with no collision insurance. And two weeks later, my brother wrecked his GTI with no collision insurance. So we put the two together and they had a car or we just put a parts out and we started part in a mountain selling used parts. So we were in the junkyard business at 19 years old and dad's backyard and he was like, what are you doing? And we're like, look, dad, we just made like $7,000. We were only going to sell this car for $3,000, you know? And that's kind of where it started and then it started to go into, you know, it was, then it was, I don't know, $4.25 an hour to pump gas, you know? And so then it was, which I think I made and saved more money at $4.25 and I did until I was 38 years old, right? But any who, you know, when you get two grand ahead, you went and you bought a car for two grand that was worth $4,000 and then you sold it for $4,000 and made a little more money. And, you know, my background, so me and my brother are business partners today and our background has always been automotive. So we've built what we've built with in the automotive industry and always that's been more or less all of our wealth generation or financial generation has been through the other model. Well, let's talk about where you are today a little bit to set that stage to. We'll circle back to the journey through that, but I think, so Mike's the, well, go ahead. Yeah. Well, let's, actually, I want to just continue the journey a little bit. It's your show, man. Yeah. So, so started that self-employment, started to work through jobs and auto body collision and different things and, you know, kind of started to realize that I wasn't super employable, you know, because, again, that middle wage was pretty much your, right? Yeah, like, you know, like nobody was willing to pay me more than minimum wage and I wasn't willing to accept that. So I started kind of trying to always be resourceful and look for other ways and I always kind of fixed and flipped cars and, you know, I went, I went to, I chose to go to a trade school. So I went to Penn State's trade school and the first day I walked in there, I signed up for auto body classes and the first day I walked in there, there was a facility that was state of the art at the time and outfitted for like 22 students and there was six of us in the class. Oh, wow. So I, I was like, immediately took out a big rope and it's like, this is my corner, I'm going to work over here. These three stalls. Right. And I started buying cars and the teacher was like, yeah, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Let me know if you need help. So I started buying wrecked cars and started fixing wrecked cars and, and, and did you get the class to help too? Well, no, but all the materials were free because they were in this, so he didn't have to pay for anything, right? Margin's a little bit easier that way. Right. Grinder wheels and all that stuff. Yeah, sad paper. It's all expensive. You know, paint. It's all expensive. So, um, any who, then after that, you want to give a shout out to that, uh, instructor there? Uh, Lenny Philip Kowski, man, flip, he's the greatest guy. He's, he's a mentor and a great guy in my life and he helped you steal from the school for a while. No, it was, it was, that's the way we were supposed to learn. Yeah. Well, no, but that was the, that was, you're cool. They supplied the materials. All right. I'm sorry. I'm teasing. But, um, so yeah, kind of, and then, you know, started to got, after that, after graduating from there, moved to Fort Collins and started to work in the local auto body shops and it's tricky business, you know, and, um, in, um, September 11th, when, you know, we had September 11th and stuff and, yeah, 9-11, um, you know, the economy kind of started to take a little bit of a scare and stuff and, and business got slow. Well, I was at the time I was working for an automotive repair shop. I was actually a mechanic at that time, not an auto body tech and we were a European auto repair shop and so Volkswagen vans would come there, but the boss hated Volkswagen vans. But when you're a European auto repair shop, Volkswagen vans are going to show up, right? And those were the days when nobody wanted to put money into Volkswagen vans. So they would show up broken. I would write an estimate for $3,000. They would go, no thanks. Right. And I would then be like, Mary, you want to sell it for me? I'll buy it for me for a grand. And they'll be like, yeah, okay. So I'd go to the boss and I'd say, hey, man, it's your business. You got first writer refusal for a thousand bucks. He's like, I don't want that thing for a thousand bucks. I'm like, okay. So I bought it for $1,000 and then I did that 11 times and had a whole yard full of Volkswagen vans and many of them were still there a few of them are actually the first what I ever bought. I still owe 20 something years later. But the so then I ended up with, you know, a yard full of Volkswagen vans and no real time to work on them. And then 9 11 came and business got slow and I was like, hey, I'm going to go home this afternoon and start working on my Volkswagen vans. And it wasn't too long to where I outpaced you were making more money doing that quick, right? Because the 9 11 thing kind of lasted a while, yeah, there was a lot of influence. And so that was also the early days of eBay. So that was when eBay was, that was the early days of the internet, right? Like 2000, 2001, 2002 right in there, you know, the internet was just coming around. eBay was just starting to be a thing and it wasn't clogged with Chinese crap, right? And you could actually be distinguished in a marketplace and that was the go to place to buy used parts. So I used to, I would sell my own used Volkswagen parts. But then I figured out that I could go to a junkyard, a you pull a junkyard and I could buy stuff at pennies on the dollar and then put it on eBay and sell it to somebody wants that thing. 6, 7, 800, 2000 percent margin all day long, you know, you buy tail lights for $3 and sell them for 75 to 200, right? Like, and I know what, I just being in the business, I know what breaks and I know what's expensive and I know what is rare and how much VW charges for it. Right. And I didn't buy things that you could buy at Napa and AutoZone. I bought things that you had to walk into the fancy VW dealer and wait, six weeks for it come from Germany. Right. I used ones and for pennies on the dollar from a guy in a junkyard that doesn't know what he has. It's just you go out there with your own tools and you pull it. It's kind of like, it was like treasure hunting, right? Right. So then tail lights for a 67 bread ever, right? Yeah, you know, like all the things, you know, so, um, so what did that look like for you? It was just you and your brother, I guess, that was just me, okay. That was just me and then, and then, um, about two years into that, then I called Greg and said, hey, you know, I think we can make a run at this and he was working in New Jersey at a Mercedes-Benz dealership and he had enough faith in me to say, okay, let's do it. And so he moved out here in 2004 and that's when we started our Volkswagen van business and started our manufacturing desire. So today, I'll jump forward. We are a manufacturer, a just a parts distributor, a service station, all focused on Volkswagen camper vans from 1980 to 1991. That's essentially the niche of our business and, um, we employ 26 people. We occupy 27,000 square feet of real estate in two different locations and, um, and that's Rocky Mountain Westie. That's Rocky Mountain Westie. And well, and then Mr. Mechanic, we run our, we run them under two different businesses. We do, um, run them under the same management, but yeah, it's, it's two separate businesses, Mr. Mechanic and Rocky Mountain Westie and, um, we also have a company called Vancafe, which will, which we'll get to that journey as well as how we got into Vancafe and, um, so that's kind of what we look like today as, as, you know, in the essence of it all, where 26 employees occupying 27,000 square feet and, um, in the, in the warehouse business, the manufacturing business and the service business. Um, and we're looking to, um, you know, expand and move on. We have, we have spatial capacity. We have, um, we certainly have opportunity in the, in the marketplace. Now it's a matter of, um, being smart and, and, you know, executing, executing on the plans, right? And, and it used to, you know, I, I joke that it was, it was, it goes, it, when it started as a dream, um, it started as a dream, turned into a plan. Now it's a goal. And next we're going to look at as an achievement. Awesome. Right. So, um, and that's, and that's, that's over the course of, that's a 25 year journey. So, you know, patients is, is a virtue, right? Sure. Um, finding out all those little things you learn along the way that you can make a difference with. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I want to go to, um, there's so many things already. I'm going to have to get a jump and grab my notebook soon because this is a, a technique I got to come back to things. But let's talk about, there was some time, like between graduating from school and you did different mechanics jobs and stuff. How did you come to Colorado? Like, what was that journey to get to landing in Fort Collins? My brother had moved here with a good friend and he was a CSU. He was a CSU attendee, I guess, or whatever. And, you know, so he was a high school friend and, um, my brother was looking for change and decided to move to Fort Collins, we had some other mutual friends here. And so they moved and then a year later when I graduated college, um, I drove all over the United States in a, a 78 dots in dolphin, which was a, a little class C motor home, which was, was, you know, a whole story in itself where we, we'll leave it right there. But those that know part of the past history, there's been a lot of, there was a lot of fun in that vehicle and, and we did many, many, many fun things and, um, and then tell us about one fun thing. It's the local experience podcast. You can story tell as long as you don't get anybody in trouble. Yeah. My friend Matt Rhodes did snowboard tour, right? We rode, we rode, um, in four months, we rode, uh, I don't know, 68 days at 23 different mountains. Oh gosh. You know, over the course of the entire winter and stuff and, you know, I was just an adventure vehicle drove across country more than a dozen times, did fish tour, did all kinds of just fun stuff in this camper and, and, and lived in it for a lot of years. I was doing van life before. Yeah, did you save money to go do this stuff or did you like buy stuff and sell it on the road and whatnot and work as a mechanic for a couple of months or, I didn't save, I saved money by living in the camper. Right. You know, like, it was over great. Right. Right. You know, so I mean, it was kind of easy. Like it wasn't, you know, traveling as an expensive, it's, it's what is, what is, what's your cost behind you that you're looking at? Right. Hotel rooms are expensive and, right. You know, and mortgages and mortgages and mortgages and mortgages, mortgages and overhead of all the things you leave behind you when you want to go travel. If you can eliminate all that stuff, then travel is really pretty cheap. Yeah. I like it. That's a, that's a great outlook. And so, but Greg moved here first and then he moved away, I guess, and then he moved back. Correct. Yeah. So I don't know that timeline so much, but yeah, he lived here for a handful of years and we were roommates on and off and had other friends that lived here from our hometown in New Jersey and, yeah, so, and then he had an opportunity to move back to New Jersey and he actually moved to St. Thomas for a while to, and Hawaii, maybe, I don't even know, but anyway, that's his journey, not mine. But yeah, in 2004, he moved here permanently and has been here since and, and we worked out, we ran a home-based business. So it went from a hobby to a, to a, to a part-time job, to a full-time job to, yeah, let's talk about that journey in particular. And also, I'd like to actually touch on when you said Greg moved out here, he really showed a lot of faith and, and moved out here and stuff and, to some extent, that's been consistent through your relationship is that your, Greg's a super talented guy and does a lot of things, but you've been the driver of what, what's next for, for the business. Yeah, so, um, we're twins, we're, we're twin brother, so we've been, um, you know, best buds for, for all the time, really, virtually, you know, there's been stuff for those few months here and there. Right, yeah, they're sandpaper, now and again, but, um, we've thankfully figured a lot of that out, but, um, yeah, so Greg is the, is the engineering aspect of the business, right? He's very methodical and very, um, you know, he's, he's, he's, he can do it all. Configure anything out. Yeah, he's, he's Johnny on the spot, right? He's the guy that knows how to do it all, right? And any trade, any, you know, and his level of desire and quality to finish the job and all the things is, is a unique, you know, as you, as you try and find in the ass sometimes, but it's a great blessing when you use it, right? Yes. And through all the employees we've been through and ended up with, his skill set doesn't come easily, right? Right. It's, it's hard to find guys that are like, that are his level of talent, right? So, so yeah, he's been the, he's been the driver in, in the, um, you know, the R&D side and the, and the infrastructure and, you know, our building outfitting and just so many hands-on things that, you know, and then, and then I've, I've worked to create the, the trajectory and the, the vision of the business and, and where we want to go and, and, um, and we've. So, just thinking about something in that one of the things that makes him, him awesome as a partner and why he has earned that role of partner is because if you had to hire somebody with his skill set, you'd have been bankrupt, you could have never got the business around the corner because he had to sacrifice and work for less than he could have got in the market too. Right. Yeah, when you have two guys working for nothing, you make a whole lot more traction than one guy working for. Right. And way more than two times the amount. It's two, for sure. You know, it's more like six times the amount of work gets done when you have two people willing to work for nothing, you know. So that was, yeah, that was kind of part of the blessing too. And on top of being business partners, we were roommates too and, and, and, you know, in a relatively cheap mortgage, although at the time it felt expensive, but in retrospect, it was, you know, for 1,500 bucks, we both had a place to live and work and a place to store all your vans and a place to store all the stuff. And yeah, it was, yeah, that property was, was definitely a, we still own it today is, it's, it's a great, it's a great little compound foundation. Yeah, it's, it's definitely part of the foundation and then it's, you know, who would have ever thought that the end of Mulberry in Fort Collins was, was actually going to be part of Fort Collins. Good real estate. Yeah. You know, it used to be like driving all the way out there, you know, we got a brewery just down the road now. Yeah, we got brewery down the road and, and all the things, right? Hey, I want to talk about that transition from that hobby part time, full time, then for real, because that's about the time you and I met was about the time it got real, right? So, yeah, I mean, a hobby was basically when I was having a full time job and flipping cars on the side, right? And knowing that there was more to it than what I was doing, you know? And then the part time thing kind of started when I could start buying vans while I had a full time job and starting to run a little bit of eBay and, and I would call, we had a home-based business for about three years. I still have the same neighbor, she's a caller of the Wicked Witch of the North and a doubt she'll listen to this podcast. You did appreciate that you had a bunch of cars coming in out of there and whatnot. Oh, the store, that's a whole another two hour podcast, but let's just say that she'll live a day longer than me. So, if I'm going to, she'll be like 180 years old by the time I die, because so, you know. I saw that the other day, somebody had a post that said, it was Willie Nelson's picture and it said, I think you youngsters should really consider what kind of world you want to leave behind for me and Keith Richards. You're right. You're the Wicked Witch of the North and that, too. Yeah, right. But anyhow, she, yeah, she turned us into the county for running a home-based business. And so that kind of lit a fire under our eyes. Accelerated your process of getting for real. Right. Yeah. So, you know, at the time, I was upset and in retrospect, it was probably the push that I needed. And so I had been driving by this piece of real estate up here in North Fort Collins and there was this piece of plywood with a ghetto spray paint job on it that said, for sale by owner, right? And so it was like, man, that's right up by alley right there, there's a bunch of junk in the front yard. And you know, it's like, yeah, this place is written for me, you know, it might be able to afford that one. And you've always been a fixer-upper. Yeah. Yeah, right. If it's not a project, it's not interesting. So I contact the guy and I'm like, yeah, what's the story, you know, and come to find out that it was an owner, owner, the guy owned it outright and he was willing to owner carry the mortgage, right? And so he's like, well, if you give me 20% down, I'll carry the 80% at 10% interest only for a while for you. And I was like, woo, you know, let's do it, man, you know, so I was like, the only problem is I only have 10% down, but you can put a second mortgage on all my other stuff if you want, right? So, yeah, oh, man, what a, again, in retrospect, it was what it's taking this risk. It's really good at the time. Yeah, right. And, you know, in today's world, whoever's listening to this, when you hear 10% interest only, that feels like a gut punch, but, you know, if the bank was going to give me money, it was going to be at 7%, so, you know, my biggest mistake in life was not giving him 12% or 5% over prime is really what I should, when he said 10% interest only, I should have said, I'll give you 5% over prime because 34 days later was the internet, was the 08 crash and that 7% went to 3%, really quick, and then went to 1%, or 2%, or whatever it was in the, in the, in the bottoms of, of 2009, 10, right? I mean, you know, I, you know, I don't recall totally, but I do know that in my own mind, I justify the 10% by saying the day I signed it, it was 7% at the bank, you know, so, yeah. I know, it just, it was a shame, the value has changed so much. Right. So, through that journey, we, um, was what, when me and Kurt met when I tried to say, hey, I need to get refinanced, and he's like, yeah, but you own, you know, $600,000 on a building that's worth $400,000, and you don't make any money. Like, other than that, you're, I'd really like your idea. Right. But I'm paying five grand to this month, guy, every single month, like, I can afford your loan too. It's only $3,800. He's like, yeah, but, you know, you got to all the things, right? And, and I get it. It is what it is, but, um, well, and that really sparked a friendship and, you know, those early years, especially we were able to spend a couple nights a week together just shooting the breeze and, yeah, you know, and, and, and it was all part of the learning curve. And in retrospect, I was, you know, I was renting a building. My mortgage, my 10% mortgage was, was, um, more or less market rate rent. Right. Maybe it was a touch high, but I was controlling the property and, um, all your other assets were also at risk, but, yeah, you know, like, you know, it's, it's all good, right? I mean, you know, I, I joke that I started this journey living in advance. So if I end up living in a van, that's okay, too. Well, I'm hoping to be living in a van. Right. Right. That's part of the, part of the hope of the local experience. Right. Right. Right. It's all, yeah, that's the ultimate, that's the ultimate destination. Just don't want to have to live in a van. Right. Right. Um, okay. So we're in this building. Yeah. So, yeah. So, so, to speed the story up, it was that I was going to get refinanced in 18 months and only pay 10% interest only for 18 months. Well, that took six years, you know, and, you know, it is what it is again, um, it goes on in this building. Let's talk about it. So this was at that time. Yeah. So it was, um, so when we were a home based business, Greg and I bought what we thought was manufacturing equipment and soon learned that it was prototype equipment, meaning that you could make, you could, you could make things out of metal that were really cool, but you couldn't make two of the same things, right? You could make one with this equipment, but you couldn't duplicate it, which, if you want to be in manufacturing, you have to have equipment that you can recreate without too much effort, right? So we then, so we had a product line that we were interested in producing and, um, what's that? So it's about Volkswagen vans. It's about putting, so a friend of mine came to my house with a Subaru engine in a Volkswagen van. Okay. And said, Hey, man, I just put a Subaru engine in my Volkswagen van. You know, what? That's cool. Right. So I looked at it and I was like, that's cool. I don't look like, you know, that doesn't look that good, you know, yeah, we could fit, we can improve upon this, right? Like we can make this better. Yeah. Let's make this better, right? So we made our first, we put a Subaru motor in a Volkswagen van for the first time. And since then, we've probably, um, helped a thousand people do that, um, because eventually we designed and manufactured a kit and create a manual where people can do it on their own. Or you can hire me to do it if you want to. Yeah. But a majority, certainly out of those thousand, we've only installed a very, baby, we've installed 20% of them. Yeah. You know, like, so, so we've, we've definitely sold more, um, kits to other people. You've empowered people's, uh, engine drivetrain, not to suck, yeah, folks looking at us. Right. You know, it's, it's, it's not just like it's bad. Right. It's new technology. And, um, so Volkswagen, the Volkswagen van, you know, people are like, I've done customer service in Volkswagen van world forever, right? And people are like, yeah, but the German engineers designed it. I'm like, look, if German engineers designed it, it would have a Porsche 911 and motor in it. Okay. German, German accountants designed that piece of shit. And there's nothing special about it. Like the reason it's like it is is because it was cheap. Let's talk about specs. Like, like, what does putting a Subaru in your Volkswagen van do? Right. So Subaru, so Volkswagen van's from the eighties that we specialize in. The engine technology is from the fifties. The fuel injection technology is from the sixties. And that's it. Like that's as good as it gets, you know, like, so, so you have 90 horsepower at 18 miles to gallon. And when it breaks, you have to have an ear for it. And when you go to service it and tune it, you have to tune it till it stops shaking just this way. And I'd say that way for a month, maybe if you're like, yeah, you know, like, there's an art to it, right? Versus the Subaru power plant is OBD2, meaning that it has a check engine light and a computer that you can plug into it and you can do onboard diagnostics. And the fuel injection is from the two thousands. And you end up with, so beautifully balanced, like you can't make it out of it. That balance. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's just newer technology. So it's, I mean, without getting technical on motors, it's overhead cam versus push rod cam. Like, it's all these things that are just better. And it's still a boxer engine. So it's still the orientation still fits well inside a Volkswagen van. So virtually, you can't really tell that there's a Subaru motor in there and accept, accept. It's not like, yeah, it's not like it sticks out of the hood or anything, but it's got how much more horsepower. So, so when, when we start this, you have your Volkswagen van again, has 90 horsepower and gets 18 miles to gallon. The Subaru has 165 horsepower and gets 18 miles to the gallon, right? So you just have a whole lot, a whole lot more power. So if anybody's driving down the road and they got passed by a Volkswagen van, there's a strong chance that, you know, yeah, exactly, you know, well, if you built some even faster, right? Like, so the Subaru hot rods and stuff. Yeah. We've done them with 250 horsepower, too, you know, and that starts to tear things up pretty quick. Axles break and all the things, right? So yeah, so we started to, so in that facility that we purchased up there on North College, we moved in there with the thoughts that we were manufacturers. And we quickly realized that our $1,500 mortgage to live and work at home was very cheap. Right? Now, we actually were with the big boys. We had real overhead. We needed to create revenue and our little Volkswagen van business in 2007 wasn't going to wasn't going to service business. I didn't realize that was a pivot. Yeah. So, so then we were like, you know what? This neighborhood of country club, we need to get these people in here and we need to work on their cars, you know, so then we, and we figured if we put up a sign out front that says Rocky Mountain Westy, nobody's going to know what the hell we do, they're certainly not going to think we can fix their Chevy truck. Right. So how do we let them know that we can fix their Chevy truck, right? And I'm like, I'm going to put up Mr. Mechanic on the front of the building and everybody's like, that's the dumbest name ever. I'm like, I don't care what you think. You didn't even have a trade name yet, did you? No, I'm like, I'm putting Mr. Mechanic up on the front. People start writing Mr. Mechanic on their checks, so you can't put them in the back. No, we were, we were, that kind of timed out, okay, yeah, we got legit-ish by then. But yeah, so we, so we, I've never heard that story. We made some, we made some signs and put Mr. Mechanic on the front of the building and turned into the neighborhood auto repair shop. And that, part of the story of taking over that shop is that the previous proprietor kind of went down in flames and kind of gotten a lot of trouble with the law and kind of ruined his retirement. Those concerns made me- There was, well, yeah, there was environmental concerns at some point that we didn't know about. But really it was the obstacle of moving into a building that had a black eye, right? That people were like, you know, so then we were like, oh, damn. We're from New Jersey. Right. So, so then we had to write on the, right on the window under new management, right? Like, you know, like, oh, we didn't think we had to figure that out, you know, but people were coming in going, hey, last time you fixed my car, it's like, no, no, that's, it's gone, man, you know? He's gone. Right. He's gone. The building owner right now. You know, no, actually, he was the building owner, the building owner was strictly a financeer. Gotcha. So, anyhow, that's a whole nother story that we've just been going to do, probably. Yeah. No, and it's a good one. It's a good one. There's, there's lots of, there's, there's lots of fun little- Who should tell me that story? Should I put them on my list? Inter- Well, I'm the one that curator of that story, yeah, I'm the curator of that- We'll have you back for episode two, right? After we've laid the foundation of love for you. Right, right. So, um, so anyway, so in that building for a long time, we, um, we did auto repair and then we slowly started to, um, use the, the profits from auto repair to build a manufacturing shop and buy some real manufacturing equipment that we could reproduce over and over the same products. And then we decided, okay, well, now we can make products. Now we need to get a website. Right. So, then we, um, built our first website in 2009, probably, 2010, maybe somewhere right in there. Um, we started- And that was Rocky Mountain Westie. That was Rocky Mountain Westie selling Volkswagen van manufactured parts by us. And then- So in addition to the Subaru engine kit, what else? So we make, we make two bump, we made bumpers and we made tire swings and we made interior storage parts and we made just- if there was a identified shortcoming on a Volkswagen van, we tried to create a solution for it, um- Or a workaround anyway. Workaround, you know, if there was a- if there was a part that was poorly made from the factory and we could reproduce a- a better solution to it, that was something we were interested in doing and had, you know, the company really started with- with- what reputation for being innovative, you know, and- and- and probably- probably the first one to really- in that Volkswagen van again market to have any real level of innovation. Certainly in the past, um, 12 to 15 years, other people have stepped up and- and- but we were really the- the pioneers in that- You could get a bumper for your Volkswagen van, but if you wanted a bumper that was actually way better than the original one and because we've done this and that- Yeah, we were the first person with an aftermarket internet- orderable aftermarket bumper for a Volkswagen camper van. We were by far the first one- You definitely could invest for that, right? I guess. I don't think- We lost a lot of money doing it, so I don't know how much I don't know what's not right. I want to talk about that a little bit because that is an interesting chapter and- and we do want people to learn occasionally about business when they're listening to this, not just have stories, but talk to me about that pivot, like- like you- you couldn't have had like months and months of time at a $5,000 or a month ticket and you've got this- what you think is a budding manufacturer and if I know you, it's- that you don't necessarily plan ahead but your business instincts are amazing. Yeah, I mean, it's all about intuition, right? It's all about the sense of like- yeah, you know- truthfully, it's- for us, it was diversity. You know, it was- I feel like the only time I ever was able- you know, I would run my business to pay most of the bills and then I would mop up the shortfalls with, you know, a used card deal or some good used part sales or, you know, something outside the mainstream of what our revenue stream was. So basically, you know, when you hear people say, be diversified, you know, that's essentially- my intuition and experience naturally led me to having a diversified revenue stream because I can't focus on anything for very long, you know, I just have the desire to- to be in a bunch of different things all the time so- so for me, it was natural. It wasn't- it's not hard to be diversified because my interest level and opportunity is all over the place and so that was kind of the key to- because I, you know, part of that story of the journey with the building is that, you know, I got behind on my property taxes quite a few times and, you know, at $15,000 a year, they allow you to get three years behind and after that, they sell your property for- Right. That's a timeline. But otherwise, it's the cheapest money you get. They charge you like 8%, right? Yeah, but it's a non-qualifying loan, right? It's like- you know, I have to fill out the paperwork and qualify for it. It's like instant- it's an instant cash flow support. Yeah, instant cash flow support. Well, and then some of your outside activities, as your former banker, I can say, you know, I'd be like, well, it's all good, Mike, and I like your trends and some things, but clearly, like you make no income to live on, right? It's like, well, but I sold about 18 cars last year and made an average of $1,200 on those, but- Yeah, and- And- Right. And, you know, bankers don't believe that you can live- I mean, three? Yeah, three. Right. Bankers don't believe that you can live on $1,200 a month, right? Right. Because you always made the bank pay when we were hanging out. Right. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, right. You just hang out with the right people. You know, you just- you just try and get hangin' in the right circles, and then your meals and- and beers could become comped, right? But no, you know, it- that's how we got through the- the really rough patches was- was just in- in diversity and, well, I tell people that a lot, like in your first one, two, three years of business, chances are real good that you're doing just about anything that somebody will pay you for that you figure you can make a buck at. Right. And the people that are making $70,000 a year that want to go to self-employment, their diversity is the fact that they make $70,000 a year, right? So they don't need to make any money off their business. I was not that guy, but- I was that guy. Right. I was like a way more than that before I quit my bank job, but that's another story. Right. You know, that's all part of the diversity of it, right? You can't just- it's really hard, unless you purchase a business that is already up and going, which in retrospect is probably the smartest thing you could possibly do, is like go buy a business that cash flows and- And somebody wants out of- And somebody wants out of, and the cash flow will pay for the payment and then some, right? They can grow it from there. Yeah, you know, like, but- Easier said than done, I've talked to a lot of people that have been looking for a good business to buy for a long time and generally when you get your business so that somebody wants to buy it, then you don't want to sell it. Yeah. And it's hard to buy- It's hard to buy a business in your world of passion. If you're just looking for a good business, often times it's like, well, that's a good business that makes money, but I don't want to do that. Right. It's like- Vacuum Repair Shop. Right. So- So me, right? I'm going to go out and find a business that specializes in Volkswagen vans, you know? Like, I ain't going to work. And I don't want to manufacture really dinked, stupid crap, you know? Like, I like manufacturing, but a lot of my passion is in the- is in the idea of a mobile adventure vehicle and a skate pod, you know? That's kind of a lot of the passion of it all. So, yeah, kind of, you know, and then, and generally if you're trying to buy a business and you have any level of desperation, you can kind of stink of it, right? So the- When you walk in the door, the guy's like, ah, I got one on the hook here, right? So it is easier said than done, but nonetheless, um, I think that, yeah, being diversified in your revenue stream and then, um, it is recognizing that I have enough money to make the world around. Yeah. And- and- and one of the keys is- is, again, easier said than done, but higher for your weaknesses and embrace your strengths and then delegate your strengths, right? Like, embrace people, you know? Um, that's one of the- many entrepreneurs, some successful ones, probably often time the latter don't succeed because they can't delegate. They think that they're the best at everything. Well, and even if you are, you can't do it everything, right? Right. And- and yeah, and if you think you're the best at everything and you're not, that's worse than being the best at everything, right? Like, if you're the best at everything, you can probably get there because- I guess, but who's that person? Have you met that person ever? It's a rare- There's a few weirdos, but- There's a few weirdos. And- and- and especially when people- They don't become president. Let's just say that. Let's let- yeah, let's leave that off the table, but- Well, we'll- we'll- we'll finish this podcast with family faith and politics, so- Okay. Um, but let's, you know, you can know- you can be- you can- you can be an expert in your field, right? You know, everything about your particular sector of the market, right? But that doesn't mean you have the ability to do everything, right? So- so, you know, between me and my brother, we probably could cover 98% of- certainly the early years of our business. You know, now it's kind of grown to the point where there's a lot of intricacies that we rely on- Can you be a lousy inventory manager? I don't know. I don't know. You know, I mean, I got a good- I know- I know what sells and what does it, you know? Like, I don't- I don't- I know how long it takes to sell stuff and what your cycle counts are, you know? But any who point being is that the people that don't learn to delegate don't make it very far in business, right? And they have themselves a- they have themselves a decent job that they make a decent wage at, and that's okay. And sometimes, you know- You know- Right. You know, and it just doesn't, you know, it's hard to create value there, right? You end up- because you are the expert in the field and you're the expert of your business, so you don't have a sellable business, right? So you better be making enough money that you can walk away from this thing, shut it down and feel okay in the end and have enough money to not sell it, you know? Or you're going to die at your desk, right? One or the other, you know, and- and I don't want either one of those, you know? I mean, I'm certainly in the- I'm in the game to create value and whether I sell it or not have something that's- that- that has value if I want- if I- What are you? When I'm done, right? Right. So- I think that's great. I was just reminded of actually what's probably our first adventure, to some extent, maybe not the first adventure together, but do you remember the America's next great restaurant? Yeah. You want to tell the audience about that? Yeah, so- It's really kind of the roots of local think tank in the way. Right. So, going back to that Volkswagen- are the- excuse me, the Dots and Dolphin camper that I drove all over the place, right? Like so- the menu was mountain pies, right? Like, you know, that was- that was how we ate- most people don't know what that is, right? So this is like how we ate and what we ate and- and so you start a little campfire and you take a cast iron, two-sided little pie maker and you- and you put some bread and some filling in there and you stick it in the- stick it in the coals and next thing, you know, you- you come out with this little hot pocket essentially, right? It's like a- you know, it's like a- What's your favorite kind? It's like ham and cheese. You're talking peanut butter and jelly. Oh, yeah. You could do ham and cheese. You could do- or dessert like apple pie filling or, you know, you can do anything, right? You could do egg sandwiches. You could do it all, you know? It's just a matter of- so- so any who- I don't know what your that was. What do you think, what your do you think that was? It doesn't eat probably. Yeah, maybe, right? So Bobby Flay put out this thing for America's next best restaurant, right? Next great restaurant. Next great restaurant or whatever, right? And so- so there was walk-on auditions and- He used to hang out and smoke a lot of weed in those days. Yeah. Have a lot of- Right. So that was the generator of all the ideas, right? Like, you know, we call it bench racing, right? You smoke a little herb and then next thing, you know, you get you're off on these bazillion different ideas, right? But yeah, I was gonna- so I- so Kurtz was the- Local yokals. Local yokals was all like farm to- farm to- farm to- farm to mouth or farm to spoon- Yeah, farm to table and- Farm to table. And that was kind of- that was early- Yeah. The edge of those days. Leading edge for this region. Right, right. It was really the- the- the hip thing to do, but at that time, it was kind of- In banking, we like to say the Scouts get the arrows, which is what I would have gotten back then, probably. Right. And my idea was- That was a- It was a mountain pie restaurant, right? To have like this ski lodge and this hearth and this, you know, like this fancy experience. And I was like, running smack. I was like, I'm gonna put camp more out of business and shit stuff. Like the only reason people go camping is for the food and they don't really want to stay overnight. Now they're just gonna come to my restaurant. Right. The whole camping industry is gonna die because of my restaurant and all that shout out. Shout out to Steve Hogan, who was my boss at the bank in those days, because when I told him this story that we were gonna go down and do a live audition with NBC for America's next great restaurant, he's like, cool, take the day off on me. You don't have to even claim it as a vacation day. Yeah. And I was like, okay. Right. Well, I- nobody paid me that day, but- I- I walked in there and I was like, man, I walked out of there and I was like, had my hands in the air. I was like, I freaking nailed it, man. I'm gonna be on TV. Woo! You know what? Me too. It was, yeah. Well, they actually told me good presentation. Yeah. I'm sure. And did they call you back? No. They didn't call me back either. But it was just- it was a chicken and waffles guy that won, which I'm like, whatever, man. I would have been like, if they had me and Bobby Flay would have been cheers and he brought each other on our own private island by now. Right. My pie's gonna be all over the place. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. It's still an opportunity. Yeah. I- I- I don't think that the restaurant business in 2020 is really of anybody's- of- of anybody's desire. There's probably some businesses for sale. There's probably some businesses for sale. You can convert one to a mountain pie shop. Yeah, no thanks. And apologies to all of you. I'm sorry for what's been done to your businesses. Yes. Across the country here. Yes. I feel for those in the restaurant business for sure. Man, what a- what a tragedy. And I guess we can get to that in the political ending of- Sure. Of this business. Yeah. We'll keep going, right? It could be America's biggest tragedy, right? So, you know- Yeah. I do feel for those businesses in the tourism and all the things that have been affected by the pandemic and such. So, yeah. So that was a fun- so the whole restaurant thing was fun, right? And that- that's just- that just speaks more to the cost- Oh, at 9-11. Or no, then- yeah, 2009. The crash. Right, right. There was business with pre-crashing, I think. Probably. Yeah, I would- I would venture to imagine. Oh, yeah. Because then Steve would let go. No, it was post-crashing. No, Steve told me I could go, and he got let go pretty soon after the crash. Right, but you start- we met in B&I. You start with B&I after- Oh, right. So we met in 2008. It was right in there somewhere. Yeah, it was- it was right in the crash. Yeah, probably early 2009. This bring it 2009. Which was probably why we were both just desperate. We narrowed it down and nobody cares. Right. But- But it was a pretty good story, and it was- It was local yokals that it, you know, ultimately- I don't remember the name that I glossed it at the time with what- I don't remember what I- Big bike, mountain pies. No, no. You know, that's the same thing. Like people were like, well, just put Mike Sauter a pair up there. I'm like, uh, how do I want to be? I don't want to, you know, like, I don't anybody think I'm going to be there. And they sure don't want me working on their car. I promise you that, you know, like- Where are the higher guys that are clean-cut? Yeah, don't ever let me work on your car. That's not a good use of anybody's time or money. You know, I can- I can diagnose a car from like across the room, but I don't- I can't fix it. So any who. Um, but yeah, that's part of the journey. And then- And then we, um, we started to just, you know, slowly increase our revenue and our demand for, um, for car parts and- And for, um, for Volkswagen van parts and we started manufacturing. We started hiring the right people. Um, do I shout out to any of those early hires? For them at the time, you know, actually one of our- One of our people, um, Ryan Martin came to us as a guy that sort of welded in his backyard. And now he's our premier TIG welder and he's been with us for 14 years. Awesome. Ryan. Ryan, yeah. And, um, yeah. And there's some other people that really were crucial along the way. Let's talk about- Even if they're not with you anymore, are there any specific people that- That really helped you do stuff? Yeah. Yeah, Joe Baldoni was with a key- Yeah. He was a key guy to the- to the whole thing. Mark Sanson really developed the whole idea of like, um, the DIY manual. Mark wrote the first version of the manual. Oh, cool. Um, oh, because he was a communications or something guy, right? It's cool. He had a weird major. I forget what it was. Yeah, ceramics. Ceramics. Oh, yeah. That's even worse. Mark, uh, just for what it's worth, uh, really enjoyed. We- Mark and I shared a motorcycle ride one Saturday afternoon and rode some canyons and it was- He was a really fun guy to ride. Yeah. So Mark- Yeah, Mark was a high school- a high school friend. We met in eighth grade and, um, yeah. So he was key to the whole process. Um, Oliver was a key mechanic for a long time. Um, yeah, there was a lot of- There was a lot of people that came and went through there that, um, served their time. Um, you know, there was right hires. There was wrong hires. There was, um, people that we weren't ready for. We hired them. But they were great people. But we weren't ready for them. And, you know, they moved on. And, um, there was people that we hired for a pulse and quickly turned out that- There was smarter shit. Or we should have- It shouldn't have hired people. Right. Right. It turns out that I don't know how to take somebody's pulse. Yeah, it turns out that, yeah, I don't know. It was called a tremor. Not a pulse. They were shaking. You know, like- So let's talk about that. Let's learn something there. Like, A, have you been a pretty good at hiring kind of guy? Or B, what have you learned about hiring and- And doing that well in your business? Well, I think- I think one of the biggest takeaways is hire before you need to. Right. Like, hiring and desperation never goes well. Hmm. Because, A, it's hard to find people. And B, Your judgment goes down or changes when you're desperate. Right. So- So the argument then says, well, why would I hire somebody before I need them? Okay, well, isn't it easier to train somebody and get them up to speed before you actually need them? And then, again, this is kind of a- This kind of goes back to sucking it up and not making money. So take some of your own money that you allegedly need or make and reinvest that in your business in talent. And then once you have the talent in place, then you can go find the opportunity, right? And- You've done that recently, right? You guys kind of took a pay cut to bring on some more sophisticated talent in the recent- Yeah. To build a- To build a leadership and executive team. And that sucks. Well, you know. But it's better than not having a good leadership team. Yeah. Having within your means, you know, it's not- Yeah. You know, I'd rather have- I'd rather have a good leadership team so I can have freedom than operating chaos, right? So- But that's one of the, you know, so I think that that's a lot of, you know, when I see people in business, they're like, well, I'm not going to hire somebody until I need them. Well, okay, but the problem is when you need them, you're in chaos, so you can't train. You can't find somebody, right? And you're working your tail off, and you're probably not doing that good of a job because- You might lose customers. You might lose customers all the things, right? So, so, you know, let's call- You know, in my industry, you know, you hire people for $40,000 a year, let's say. Right? So I'm going to hire a guy three months ahead of time. Okay. Right? Four months ahead of time, maybe. Right? Yeah, it cost me 10 grand. Hey, I'm still getting production out of that person. Right? Right. They might not be up to speed fully, but they're- They might not be up to speed, but I'm at least probably getting a break even on them. You know, I'm training them when I have time. Right. And, you know, if you have flow in your system, you're creating opportunity. The same day you hire that person, you start to work on- You start to ramp up your opportunity- Try to create more for them to do. Right. Right. So how do you know when that's coming? Like, is that an intuition thing? Do you guys keep really good metrics that you can be like, okay, we're- It's intuition. Yeah. Right. The world is- the world is plump full of opportunity. Right. There's never a shortage of opportunity, especially in my business. Again, with my- With our- With- In our- In our business, with our audience, and the ability to be diversified and hungry, you know, Maybe in different industries, it's maybe harder than others for sure, right? Like, not all businesses are easy to go out and cultivate revenue. Right. And I'm not saying my business is easy to cultivate revenue. What I'm saying is my business has opportunity. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. If I have talent and I have infrastructure, I can throw things out there and try them. Right. Right. And it might stick. Right. So yeah, it's a little bit intuition. It's a little bit of like, you know, right now we're in a- Right now we're in a growth curve of trying to get into different manufactured stuff. And, you know, so it's like, okay, well, let's hire a designer. Right. You know, do we have- Yeah, do we have revenue that's going to support a designer? No, but if we don't hire a designer to design stuff, we're not going to have revenue. So what? So what? Then me and my brother are out there designing things to try and create revenue to then afford a designer. That's like the- That's not- I'm not going to say it's- It's hard to start a business that way, but you can grow a business other ways. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's just- It's about reallocation of your profits reinvested in your business to continue to grow your business. Right. And, you know, there's other business owners that want to suck their profits out all the time too. And I admire those guys. Sure, they have nice cars and they have nice houses and they have nice things. I- That's not really my path, right? I'm more of an endgame kind of guy, you know? Like, I'm more trying to finish- Build out the project so that it's finished, right? And then kind of- You know, it's kind of like farming, right? You have the background of a farmer, right? So it's kind of like, you know, plant the seeds, water the plants, nurture them, you know? Like, yeah, you can- You can eat an apple when it's halfway on the- Okay, they're in Sweden. It's big, yeah. All right, but it's gonna- It's gonna feed you. Sure. Right? But, you know, if you wait till the end, you know- No, and I've actually- I- As a banker, I've seen businesses fail because the principal- When times change economically, they- They couldn't get themselves to- To live on less than $100,000 a year, even though the business went from making 120 to 80. If they could have just lived on 70,000 a year, the business could still be making them probably today- 200,000. All right. But they just couldn't figure out how to get there. Right. Or they just couldn't- Have the self-discipline. Right. Which is something I struggled with. So I won't be- I won't throw rocks. Right. But- So let's talk about very recent years then, because- And then we'll probably take a short break here in a few minutes and refill our drinks and- Have a party break and stuff. Sure. But let's talk about the recent history, because- You started carving a- A space and then, like, vancafei came along and- And Peter and I want to- I want to learn a little bit about that. And then also into some of this new equipment and stuff, to the extent that you want to share with people- Some of it might be proprietary or whatever. Sure. But maybe even do a shout out for what people are looking for. Why not? Sure. Yeah. It's been- It's been a wild ride, right? And it's a- It's a journey and you can manifest anything you want. And you should think abundant and ask lofty questions. And it's all about like, you know, asking the questions today of like, how did I get here so easily? And how did I do this? Not what- Not what do I need to do to get there? It's like, how did I get there so easily, right? Like putting yourself there. Like having the vision of where I am. Where I want to be putting myself where I want to be in today's shoes. And I like what you said about so easily. One of the things that I've said about life in recent years is, you know, if you're kind of in the flow, if you're, you know, whether you're a person of faith or not, if you're where God wants you, the river just kind of takes you where you're supposed to be. Yeah. Don't buck against it. Don't fight. Yeah, and this is, you know, this is a lot with my journey with my girlfriend Shannon. She's kind of, this is part of her mantra is to live big and be in abundance and to manifest all the things of life. And I am so grateful for her presence in my life and appreciate that whole drive of what she brings and offers and the energy it creates inside me too. So, yeah, that's shout out to Shannon, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's a, she's a special one for sure. And it, so yeah, I think it's about, I'm talking about Peter. Yeah. Let's grab that conversation. So in our manufacturing world, I, this guy calls me one day late in the year. And he says, I heard you make these parts. And I was like, yeah, I do. He's like, well, I own vancafe out in Santa Cruz and it's kind of my philosophy at the end of the year to spend a bunch of my money and buy inventory. And so I want to do that. I'm like, okay. I'm like, but I don't think I can make all this parts for you in the next 12 days. He's like, that's all right. Whenever you need it, whenever you get them to me, just get them to me. I'm going to send you a 30 grand right now. I'm like, all right. That's good. Right. Remember those property. All right, buddy, for the property. Right. Remember those property taxes you're talking about. Right. So, so, so this, you know, so I get a check in the mail for 30 grand, right? And this is your first interact with Peter. Yeah. First phone call with them, right? So, so, so we start to work together. This was probably 2009, 10, you know. And then, you know, we start to build a relationship and rapport. And it was mostly business. And, you know, every so often we were like, yeah, you know, check in and and chat a little bit. And I want to say in 2014, I took a road trip and met him. That's probably about the time frame, 2014. Yeah. Took a van road trip, went there and and you know, I said, hey man, I think I'm your guy. Like, I'll buy this thing from you, you know. I was starting to realize that in my, I had my manufacturer product line, but in order to get real audience, I need to be a reseller. I need to be more of a one stop shop versus just being an accessory business, right? So, um, right, like people that heard about the Rocky Mountain Westie bumper could go to your website and buy a bumper, but how do they hear about your bumper? Right. Yeah. And when they're there, they want to buy a tail light because they just got hit in the back. So they don't only need a bumper, they need a tail light, you know, and all the things, right? Just so, so we started to, with, with the help of Joe Baldoni, we started to increase that product line and become a reseller. Um, and we made pretty good traction over the years on that. But, you know, so me and Peter from 2014 on with touch base once a year, how's it going? It's going good. Um, you know, just all the things I was, um, competing with him kind of, right? Yeah. He's, he's selling some of your stuff. You know, Peter never had competition, right? He was, he was the guy that, you know, he's, he's not, he's not a greedy guy. He's, he's easy going. He lives in Santa Cruz. He walks around in shorts and sandals. Do you want to give him a proper shout out? Yeah. Peter Jones. He's, he's, he's a, he's a great friend. I think it's probably a Peter Jones. Yeah. And you and I met once before just so you know, on the ping pong table, I'm sure. Right. Um, we actually are, we sit right now. We, we, me and him played a game of ping pong for a few grand of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of inventory values. Yeah. Just like, we're close. We'll shoot this out. How do you go? He beat me. Um, every time. Well, I beat him a handful of times, but you know, I'm, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the upset king, right? Every once in a while, I'll just play a game that just, you know, um, any who. Um, and that's for Larry Doggan, the any who, Larry, Larry times me on the any who's, you know, he's counting them for you. Yeah. When we have a conversation, he's like, oh, it took you like seven minutes to throw in any who out there, any who. Hey, Larry, I've got you a challenge of ping pong for either Mike or myself whenever you're ready. So shout out to Larry. Um, so, yeah. So, so over the years, me and Peter would check in and, um, so I went to a merger and acquisition, um, took a seminar, took a seminar, no seminar, sat down in front of this merger. At the time, I was in a relationship and I was kind of tired of my business to a certain extent, maybe looking to do something different, maybe saying, yeah, I should learn a little bit about what it takes to sell a business. It's a free lunch, right? Um, um, you know, why not? I used to be, when I was a fat guy, I was a sucker for a free lunch, you know. By the way, we'll talk about that later, but Mike's lost about 50 pounds in the last 18 months and is a skinny short guy now. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, I'm never, I'll always be a short guy, but the fat, the fat guy jokes are off the table, by the way. You look ripped. Um, so any who, definitely your muscles get bigger as your fat gets smaller. Right, right. Um, but yeah, so, um, so I go to this, so I signed up for this merger and acquisition seminar. And, you know, I signed up probably a couple of few months ahead of time, whatever, right? And in the meantime, because I was with this, I was with a partner and I was like, uh, maybe we want to do something else. So maybe I'll sell my business, we'll do a little transition in life. Well, in the meantime, I break up with a partner and I start looking for opportunity and going, okay, God, what's next? Right? Like, I got too much time on my hands. Like, I kind of had the business, at that size, I had the business styled into where I was working 15 hours a week. And it's about what a $2 million business at that time or a billion and a half is somewhere in there, right? A million and a half, two million. Gross revenue. Gross revenue. Right, right. Gross revenue. And, um, yeah. And so I was working 15 hours a week, you know, like I'd show up and not really have anything to do. We were screw up. We hung out all the time. You know, right. I was a little banker. No, maybe I wasn't. Yeah. I was local. Think Tank Guyish. And, um, so two weeks after I separated from my partner at the time and started to ask the questions of what's next, I get a phone call from Peter and he's like, yeah, by the way, I'm ready. It's time. And I'm like, okay, let's do it. I've never given you an indication of interest or anything before that. Right. Right. No, it was always, it was always, it was, we would check in once a year and it was always like, okay, yeah. Let's, you know, let's talk about how you're doing, where you at. So when I visited him in 2014, I told him a little bit about my story. And Peter's a cash guy. He pays for everything. He doesn't believe in leverage and, you know, he's in his late 50s and God bless him. He made enough money that he could do it that way. I'm a leverage guy. Right. Like, especially these days, I've never had all the money. That's three percent interest, you know, we should have a podcast on that because if you're, if you're afraid of data, three percent interest, you're losing money, right? Right. Yeah. You know, leverage has its time as long as it could pay for itself. Correct. It has its time in place. Right. Like, um, depreciating assets, you probably shouldn't leverage depreciating assets. But anyway, cars don't pay for themselves. Yeah. Well, buildings depreciate, but not really. Yeah. Work trucks. Yeah. All the things, right? Anywho. So, um, Peter actually thought I was way over leveraged and he kind of decided that I probably wasn't his guy. Didn't have the juice. And he sniffed out a few other people and realized that they didn't have the vision or the tenacity to go in and do what I could do. Right. And then he came back and every time we talked, he, the enthusiasm and the tenacity and he started to watch us grow a little bit. And he started to watch us put pressure on him a little bit even, right? Right. We had grown from a nobody to, he was, he was second position in the market. And we had grown from a nobody to number five, probably number three, no, no, number five, probably. Whatever. And in, um, in the course of like five or seven years, you know. And, um, so he calls me and says, I'm ready. And I went to the seminar. I don't know. I should probably look at a calendar because I know a lot of the timeline. But I went to the seminar and I sat in an eight hour seminar and my biggest takeaway in the eight hour seminar. You always get one nugget, right? Sure. You don't, you don't retain it all. Right. My one nugget was shut the hell up. Right. Like the who talks first. I love Peter Jones. Right. And if you talk to him today, the deal that we struck worked so well for him. So I'm like sitting there going, Hey, Peter, we need to have a conversation because I'm really ready. But I kind of knew how we ran his business and I knew all the things. And I'm like, well, how do you value his business? And my takeaway from the seminar was just don't just let him make, like just shut up. Right. Listen, right. So we have this conversation and he probably had it in his mind already, how he wanted to do it. Less than 15 minutes into the conversation. He says to me, he says, Well, I think my inventory is worth this such much money, but we can figure that out. And if you buy my inventory for the cost of what I have in it, you can have my whole business. And I was like, man, that's probably a good deal. Yeah, I'll do that. Let's do it, bro, you know. And by the way, yeah, I'll help you with it along the way. If you give me, you know, you all finance it. And I was like, OK, let's do that. Right. That sounds really good. Yeah, you know. And again, which it would have been a giant pain in his ass to try to solve it inventory and stuff. Again, if you go up, if you ask him, if you ask him today, he'll tell you the same story. Man, this was one of the most beneficial deals for me. He was in, he was in really crappy rented real estate. Right. He would have had to, he, he was facing some really big moves. And he had some personal stuff going on with his family and his life that he couldn't focus on it. And he was, he was ready. Yeah, he did his time. He, he worked that counter. And he worked the counter, man, he was, he's, that dude did it all himself. Like he, he, he did it, right? And he worked that counter and that phone answered phone calls answered. He did his way for like, he counted the, like, 9,743 days at that desk. And I have 400 left or whatever it was, right? And he's just, he's, yeah, it was a lot of fun. But, but it enabled us to create a transition to where we were able to take on Vancafe. Now, there's a guy out there. Oh, what is Bill's last name? Oh, geez. Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill. Yeah. We love you, Bill. You know, we are if you're listening. Yeah, Bill was the, Bill was the owner of, of 1230 Blue Spurs. Oh, okay. So, um, local realtors, Nate Heckle and there may be Cushman. At one point, I don't know who they, Travis Akerman, these guys, if you own a commercial building in Fort Collins, I guarantee you get a letter twice a year from these guys saying, Hey, we'll sell your building. Right. That's just, you know, they just, they plank at the market with letters. And we have a buyer that wants to buy your building. Well, no, you don't, but you have enough demand. And there's, there's so little supply that they could sell any commercial building at the right price, right? So they, so I get a letter from these guys and this says, Hey, we'll sell your building. So I call them up. I'm like, yeah. What do you think it's worth? Yeah. What are we talking here? Right? So, um, this is absolutely the deal with Peter. No, this is way before. Okay. This is years before. Okay. Years, years and years, years before. So, um, So, I'm like, well, you know, I don't really want to sell my building, but I would love to buy another one. And they're like, Buh! Just so happens that we got a guy right down the street that wants to sell Bill Markowitz. Markowitz? No, not Markowitz. That's my friend Michelle. Anyhow, Bill, um, Bill, we love you. Bill, we love you. So we, uh, Okay. Well, we're going to take a break here. Yeah, see you guys later. And we're going to take a break now. We'll get back to you, Bill. All right, Bill. Ta-ta. And we're back. Uh, that was refreshing, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the, uh, for the pause there. And, uh, yeah. What do we leave off? We left off with Peter. Well, we were talking about, yes, so we were talking about Bill. Oh, Bill. Yeah. So, so the, um, real estate guys, you know, they blank at the, blank at the neighborhood and, and they actually put us in a room, me and Bill. And, I don't think we signed non-disclosures or anything. They just like introduced us and said, Hey, you guys want to buy real estate? It's like, you know that your commission's at risk here, right? You know, and, uh, so, me and Bill start talking, turns out, one of our best customers is Bill's best buddy, right? So, we have instant connection. And, um, we start to talk a little bit about price on this building. And, 40 minutes later, we walk out of the room, and I call my customer, and I'm like, Hey, what's Bill's phone number, right? So, I get a hold of Bill, put him number one on my speed dial, and, uh, start calling Bill, you know. And, he was in a situation where he decided it wasn't time for him to sell. So, I called him every three months for the next three years, and said, Hey, Bill! Oh! By the way, remember me! I was going to ask if you had integrity situation with these real estate guys, but not really, three years of once every three months. Yeah, no, right? I heard that commission. Right, yeah, it's all good, right? And, you know, Hey, that's on them, man. That's the way they do their business. I don't know how they do their business, but me and Bill turned out to be buddies, and that's just how it all happened. And then you bought his building. And then I bought his building, right? So, I bought, so me and Peter strike this deal, and there's no way I have the space and my, Mr. Ray. $1 inventory. Right. So, I'm going to have to, so I call Bill, and I'm like, Hey, Bill! By the way, I'm time to open, you know, I'll show you some of my cards. All those, you know, I've called you like 11 times in the past three years, you know. I was like, yeah, you're the number one on speed dial, dude. And I was probably like, there was probably times where I didn't really need the space, or I didn't have the money. But I was calling you anyway, right? Yeah. Brought us this time, right? Well, now I need the space, and I might have the money maybe, like, depending on what you want for price, you know? So, let's talk about this. So, he's like, I'm not ready. I'm like, okay, well, Boo. Boo, right? So, I went and, and I went and leased a place over by horse and dragon, right across the street from horse and dragon. Oh, yeah. And so, I leased a warehouse that was way too small, you know. What's the line? Five pounds of crap, and a 10 pound bag, or whatever. Ten pounds of crap, and a five pound bag. Oh, there you go. There you go. That's a whole lot tougher. Anywho. So, we leased this place. Shout out to Tim at horse and dragon. Shout out to Tim. The president of our rotary club right now. Right. Right. And you just got fine $3 for the shout out, or something. Yeah, $5. $5. $5. $5. Shout out. So, we move into this place and it's way too small. Move all of Peter stuff over. Move all of Peter stuff. So, we, so I spent the next, so after me and Peter committed to a deal, then I went to Santa Cruz and lived in Santa Cruz for a while and started to like wrap my arms around what it's going to take to move all this stuff across the country and what the downtime is going to be and what it all looks like and how do we incorporate our website into his website and all these different things, right? And that's a lot for a guy that... Is that smart to begin with? Blue collar. Blue collar, right? You do not have an MBA. Yes. But you're incredibly smart just for the record. Well, intuition anyway, right? Yeah. So, so I'm out in California and we ended up arranging to move this stuff. We loaded the truck on a Friday afternoon, two trucks, loaded two trucks on a Thursday afternoon, unloaded a Monday morning in Colorado, never missed, missed a half day of shipping and just went right back to business again and moved somebody's employees out of, I remember. Moved three employees with us, although they were on vacation, which that's a whole nother story. We don't have the time. We don't have the time. And it's not that interesting. It's about people that, yeah, it's just not that interesting. Anywho. So we move all this stuff and we never... And it probably cost me quite a bit of money to move it that way. But, you know, when you never lose revenue, you know, a cost money to say, okay, just put on the break. Make clothes for a week and a half. Or three. Yeah. You know, it probably would have been, for me not to lose money and do it in a really organized fashion, it probably would have been three weeks. Which again, against the revenue, whatever, it cost money to move it that way too. Yeah, right. You know, so we just did it our way and we just never missed a beat and we just worked our tails off. I remember. You hadn't been working very hard for a while and then you turned around and had started working hard. I went from 15 hours a week to 15 hours a day. Right. You know, and, uh, and, you know, I think that's, let's bring that lesson out here just a little bit because, like, there's seasons, right? Like, you're, what's your, what's your fantasy football? Mike and I are also fantasy football league long time friends with our friend, Jody Roths, league, and all those guys. But, the, the point I was trying to make is, what? You tell me. Just the seasons of like, when, when you have to, you have to be lazy hippie. Right. Right. Yeah, that's my football team, the lazy hippies, right? And, and we do auto draft, right? So I don't pick my team. I let the computer pick my team. And we're the lazy hippies. So sometimes we miss a week or sometimes we just roll the dice. And if you get beat by the lazy hippies, you pretty much, sorry. You're, like, right at the top right now. That's what I'm saying. The guys are, you guys are all getting beat. It works so hard. You guys are all getting beat by a bunch of lazy hippies. Well, I barely, awarely. Right. You know, for the record. So I think we take it with a similar level of seriousness. And that's the funny part, right? It's really just the gloss. I really actually put some effort into trying to make it work. But any of you, that's fancy football. I think that's part of the resonance between you and I, though, is that we both had seasons, like, there was times, sorry, Steve, and other bankers that have employed me over the years. I'm pretty lazy, you know, I was still making, getting my numbers, getting good production. If I'm, you know, not working that hard, well, then God bless it. Right. Right. And that's okay for a season. And there's times I've worked my tail off to get banks turned around, to get this business launched, to get your business acquired. Yeah. It had all the things, right? So, um, yeah, so I went to, I went from working, so when we bought vancafei and moved to here, um, I worked 15 hours a day for the next 18 months. Right. And, um, and then I started to realize that I needed to delegate and hire new people. So I started to put together an executive team. I met Ken Schrader through local think tank. Um, started to go down the journey of VOS. Um, hired Susan Bricker, who was just a blessing to our company and really helped turn things around. Um, just, so many things that kind of, just came together, right? And Josh has to give a shout out, probably, yeah. Yeah. Josh runs our auto, auto repair shop and does it with, basically hands off, you know, um, it's just a lot about the people. But, so any, hey, any, we move all this stuff from Santa Cruz to Fort Collins, Colorado and stuff in this warehouse. Oh, yeah. And, six months later, I'm like, man, this warehouse is too small. Well, actually, six days later, right? I'm like, this warehouse is too balls. Six months later, we gotta do something. There's no way we can grow this business in this space. So I'm like, well, bill, bill, right? I'm about to call bill my phone rings. And, man, I totally wish that I remember. Do you keep your mouth shut? I, I remember, I wish I remember where I was when the phone rang. But I don't. All I remember was looking at Call R-E-D and going, it's the guy, it's the guy, it's the guy, it's the guy, you know, he's calling, like this is like, you know, manifesting, like, you know, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen, right? So he threw, no, I didn't talk. He threw the price out and I said, yes, sir, thank you. And, man, called my banker the next day. Called my banker the next day. With the bank gates at that time? Uh, bank gates, man. Big one to Matt at that time. That's a whole other story. Yeah, it was, you know, it was, that's the guy. Yeah, man. And, and Doug and Doug, uh, Russ and piece, brother, Doug, Doug was still with us when you got that deal going. Doug was the president of, uh, And, and Doug woods, uh, agreed, Russ and piece, and the best boss I've had, and then we were able to move our facility there and now it houses our warehouse, our R&D, our manufacturing. We just started to increase our manufacturing and we're going to go into thermo forming and plastics and build what with that. So the idea is that we go from cargo van to camper van. So you go buy a new cargo van. Not Volkswagen? Volkswagen? No, we're going to expand into like Sprinter Market and Transits and other stuff like that. And there's other opportunities in the world of thermo forming. Thermo forming is you take a sheet of plastic, you heat it up and make it melty and then you drag it over a mold and you form the plastic. So Volkswagen van mailbox covers, I think it's going to be one of your big sellers. Maybe, right? Although you hire smart people on an executive team and they don't let you go chase in three and $5,000 opportunities. So how many Volkswagen van covers do you have to make and sell? I think there were the hundred bucks of peace right into this podcast if you want me to send you a go to vancafe.com I mentioned when it's ready. But yes, thermo forming. So we just bought some used thermo forming equipment and our claim to fame is that this thermo former was in a sub zero refrigerator plant in Phoenix, Arizona, doing American manufactured sub zero refrigerators, which go go Google that make good shit. Yeah, it's like an $8,000 $12,000 refrigerator or something, right? It's, you know, you didn't buy one at Black Friday at Home Depot, right? And this machine manufactured those refrigerators for 15 years. And we were fortunate enough to a guy, a guy named Nick Kirby. I met Nick Kirby on the internet. Shout out to Nick. And Nick's a, um, 19 years in the business of selling used machining equipment and is specializes in thermo formers, right? So okay, like if you have a used thermo former that you want to sell, you call Nick. Nick's your man. Nick's your man. And if you want to buy one, you call Nick, right? Nick's the guy, right? Right. And, and just a, yeah, genuine good guy, you know, and, and, hey, but I got this thermo former in Arizona. It's been just juice for sub zero only, dude, he hooked me up with a guy that, um, he hooked me up with a guy that Marshall Lane, another shout out to Marshall. He hooked me up with Marshall and Marshall went to, Marshall lives in Fresno, went to Phoenix, was the project manager on the disassembly of this piece of equipment that takes two tractor trailer loads to get it from Phoenix to four Collins, ways, I don't know, 60,000 pounds of metal this thermo former is. And, um, so Marshall, um, went, went to Phoenix, took it apart, drove trailers, drove higher, you know, you pay reggers with big, big equipment, but he was the project manager, gave you a report. This is a good piece equipment. No, he, he disassembled the intricacies of it and prepared it for the reggers. He's a mechanic. So he's a mechanical engineer. So he disassembled the machine and prepared it for, for, for moving, for freight. And then he followed the freight here and then he, he, he was the project manager for the reggers here to say, this is how you put it back together and then he put it back together. And he charged me an honest wage and, man, what, and Nick hooked me up with this guy and what a great experience, right? It's about being in the flow kind of, you know, and just, and being, being in the, I wouldn't have this relationship if I wasn't supposed to use it. Right. Just really just, just, just having the intuition to know that every, every person in every situation is presented to you in a manner that, you know, it gives you direction in your journey, right? It gives you momentum forward, you know, and, and, and so Nick introduced me this guy and we moved this machine and all of this kind of happened in my, my executive team would say that I rushed it and I probably did and, and, you know, sorry, the equipment before you really needed it. Right. Greg LeBade, I'm sorry. Shout out to Greg. But, you know, it happened and it's hard to, you know, there's, there's some things about used equipment, right? When you buy new stuff, it's sitting there waiting for you on the shelf. Right. This, this, this equipment knew it would have been 75% more, you know, it's like four times as much or four times as much. Yeah. It's one hundred percent more or four hundred percent more. Okay. You're better at math than me. Yeah. It's just different. It just makes it harder. Right. Anyway, four hundred percent more. So when you want it, when you come across the right piece of equipment used that's in a six sigma manufacturing facility that's been cleaned and serviced and maintained and you can, you can go, I flew to Phoenix to watch it work. Like, there's a lot of value there and you, and, you know, and then Nick's a salesman, too, right? Whether he's got three guys on it or not, he's going to try and get you to buy it. And, you know, that's his job, right? So, you know, I mean, there's, this machine, there's not 20 of them sitting there waiting for you on the shelf at Home Depot, right? Right. So, you're not going to find another one in 30 days that's up ready to go. Right. Right. That's value. Right. So, we, we, we bought the machine in August and probably sometime in January will be making our first parts on it. So, you know, it's a five, five month ramp up to ramp up to using it and probably maybe eight months to revenue. So let's talk about, I love that because it shows that you got a plant seeds, water from, give them time, give them fertilizer, give them nourishment. You know, we talked about, you're going to be looking for a designer, you know, because you can't build, you can't have revenue to pay a designer before you have a designer to make the stuff that you need to build and all that. And so, there's all this kind of chicken and egg stuff, all these decisions as you go along the journey. Let's talk about where, because I know we do have to wrap up before too long, but let's talk about where in three years, if you've done most of the right things, where we'll, you don't have to talk about revenues necessarily, but what does the scope of Rocky Mountain West, the Ivanka Faye, Mr. Mechanic, what's the, what's the integrated organization look like that? The goal, written goal with milestones set out to get there is that we will be in RV manufacturer and will repurpose the Mr. Mechanic space to basically buy brand new vans and compete with Winnebago and stuff. You know, Winnebago's, they certainly have the, the economies of scale in place, right? They're, you know, they're going to get a better deal on. Your boutique deal. Yeah, we're going to be, you know, we're going to be an alternative to Winnebago. I'm not going to say that they're going to be a competitive yet. They're not going to be scared of you yet. No, I don't know. They're probably not even going to know we're on the radar, right? You know. But if you sell 100 of those a year, that's a big deal for you. That's a big deal, right? Exactly, right? So, and the way we get there is that we start to manufacture this product line over time and we empower other people to install their own interior, right? So it's a DIY camper interior kit to turn your cargo van into a camper van. Sure. And after three years of people prototyping that for you, you should have a really good product if you get feedback. Right. So then it says, okay, well, we have a warehouse full of product. Why don't we just go buy a $40,000 van and put it in there and build a spec van, right? Like, and then we'll sell that van, you know? Um, and then I think that's different things. Right. And I think at that point, you're an RV manufacturer pretty much, right? Like you're, you're probably not doing it on a scale of the engine blocks, right? Right. You know, I mean, I, you know, all of a sudden before you know it, you got there, right? Even auto manufacturers. They're not really manufacturers. They're assemblers of all the little pieces that everybody makes. Right. And you can make that might be, that might be a little outside of the three year, you know, that might, but it's, it's within the five year. Yeah. So the nice thing about vans is that the automakers build them for versatility and their work trucks, right? So whereas with the grocery getters and the minivans, you always got to be cutting edge, right? So they're redesigning. They're redesigning those cars every three to five years at the most on the outside, right? So it's hard to build an accessory line around a constantly changing platform versus cargo vans. Right. You know, Mercedes, the last 14 year 15 year man or something, exactly, right? So they, you know, it's, they run them, they run the body for 15 years with a little bit of trim adjustment, maybe at best, really. It makes me think about outer box a little bit how a lot of their business success was built on, hey, Apple released a new iPhone were like on it like stink on poo as soon as we have a chance to get the specs and the dimensions. And we got the first case that you can get, right? Like when they designed a new Mercedes van with a new diesel turbo or maybe electric platform or whatever, you know, okay. Now let's start making some stuff on that, you know, and yeah, but the difference between outer box and, and what you just described, the huge differences that there's going to be a new iPhone in 10 months. Right. So that window of opportunity is super small. Right. I'm not worried. They can come out with a new man. I think it's slow. Yeah. Yeah. I ain't going to touch that. People like it for a while. Right. I'll get a few out on the market. Like I'm in no rush to be cutting edge. Right. Back to the, to the beauty of the, um, well, and cutting edge always costs more. Yeah. Because you have to define the market, right? And, and if I were to go after new vans, a, there's not as many, you know, they made the same van for 14 years. So there's a scrap load of those out there over a 14 year, you know, now I'm going after a van that they've only made for one year. Well, that plus poor guy is can buy a hundred thousand mile eight year old one for nothing and put your kid in it and live in it. And that's a, that's a demographic that we are aware of, right? People want to live in vans and they don't have to be poor, you know, like people want to live in vans, but for sure, primary residents, you know, and that's definitely a demographic that we're aware of, you know, and, and focused on, on catering to. Um, so yeah, I think that, you know, once you have this product line developed, you would naturally just, um, outfit them yourself, you know, and, and really the, for a guy that doesn't necessarily like planning and more likes, you know, I, I have a tendency to thrive in chaos a little bit, right? However, let's put the planner hat on and say, okay, I want to build a camper van that essentially is an offering similar to Winnebago, again, because I'm probably not competing with Winnebago. Well, today you can, you go buy a brand new Winnebago camper, that's a sprinter, and you're probably spending a hundred and forty thousand dollars, okay? You go down to Mercedes and you buy a brand new sprinter cargo van and you're probably spend in 70 grand, 60 grand. So there's a $70,000 spread there, right? Well, I better pay attention to that, because if I want to be, if I want to be an RV manufacturer, if that spread tightens up to 40,000, you might not have a place. The problem is this, if I want to buy a D, if I want to sell a DIY kit, so you can turn your van into a camper that competes with Winnebago, that's allegedly worth 140 grand, I better make sure I maximize that $70,000 spread, right? Don't sell it too cheap, because if I sell it for 20 grand, you'll capitalize your own opportunity. Right. So then who's going to buy, who's going to buy a assembled van for 120 grand, when they can just buy one that's not assembled and then buy the kit for 20 and have 90 in it and pay somebody 10 grand and be $30,000 cheaper. Yeah. Right? So, you know, and what is that number? And it starts with, I think, making sure you can make money on the kit at 20 grand. If you can make a bunch of money on the kit at 20 grand, well, then go get it. Yeah. But maybe 35 or 30? No, I think that it starts with what is the, what is the, it starts with what does the end look like and work backwards, right? It's the end. What do people want? It's the end in mind. It's the where do I want to be? What do I want to be? So if I want to be an RV manufacturer and I want to be selling campers for $130,000, how do I build a product line around, how do I work towards that, right? That's, it's the end in mind and then figure out the path to work backwards instead of working towards something that you're unknown of, right? Clearly defining who I want to be and what I want to be, right? It's clear, it's kind of the same thing of setting the trajectory and the path of local think tank, right? It's building the process of who do I want to be? Well, local think tank is divided that has decided that at the very least it wants to be a regional peer advisory group, right? So it needs to be able to scale in a manner that doesn't always have Kurt touching it, right? So that's a different, that's a different business model than a local consulting business where Kurt goes into every business and consults with him, which, yeah, I don't even know how to do that. Right. But, but that could be a business model that you could, yeah, maybe I could. Right. And it's two completely separate business models. So the question then becomes, if I want to be in our, do I want to be in our V manufacturer or do I want to be a DIY guy or do I want to be a hybrid? And there's lots of questions in between there, one of which is pricing, right? So I need to price my kit in a manner, I need to do the upfront work and price my kit in a manner and the offering. So it still works with the end in mind of being in our V manufacturer. Right. I have a chance to share one of my father's quotes, Don Bear, the one of the bigger insults he would ever share with people. I think I may already share this in a podcast, but is that guy, yeah, he's all right, but he never pushed a pencil of nothing in his life. And you don't necessarily push a pencil to it in the same way that everybody else does, but does it make sense? Is there enough money there? Like, how much effort does it take to build this kit? How much effort does it take to do this? You know, and then there's other people that get a fine point on how much it actually does cost. But what are we trying to do? Yeah. And really the lesson learned here is so many people don't value their, what they do. There's so many people that are that fail in business because they don't charge enough. That's the 100% the most common advice I've ever given in my career, raise your price. Right. And I'm not saying price gouge or be a jerk or whatever, but if you're not in a place where you're charging enough to get a profit squeezed out, then don't do it. Right. And you're a rare breed if you do it and lose money. Eventually you're going to get, well, you're going to go out of business, but you're all, if you don't go out of business and you just kind of bounce along the bottom, you're eventually going to become a recession. And I'll take you out or you'll be bitter and no, actually, I have a good friend who has been a bottom dragger for 20 years and no recessions taking them out because he at least kind of owns his building or he has, you know, he has, he has some things going for him, but he works, he's tail off and he never makes money. And because he doesn't charge enough, you know, and that's the total reason and or he does stuff for free, you know, and you know, whenever you do something for free, that's the thing that you have to warrant it. It costs you twice as much. Yeah. Right. You know, because you don't really focus on getting it done correctly and you don't, yeah, it's just, it's hard. Hey, I want to, if you've got enough time, because I know we are like right already at five o'clock, you mentioned local think tank and I introduced you as a co-founder, the co-founder, the guy that said, hey, Barry, you know a bunch of people, why don't you start to think tank kind of thing. And I won't talk too much about that, but, but talk to me just about your journey in maybe even in peer advisory and in local think tank because you were there, you were there at the lunch meeting where you, myself and Andrea Grant all decided that yes, Andrew will facilitate these meetings, we'll find all the smart people and you would be a member. So talk to me about that peer advisory element, especially as it applies to your whole business journey. Yeah, so shout out to Andrea Grant. Yeah. I was a vintage member before local think tank and so that's kind of where I, I guess, cut my teeth or whatever the cliche is in peer advisory. At that point in time, my peer advisory monthly obligation was twice what my paycheck was, but, you know, did it anyway, right, because, and, and, you know, the nice part about peer advisory is it's the, it's the executive team you can't really afford, right? It's an executive team to help make decisions in your business that, yeah, that you, it's an outside perspective, right? There's a lot of value and you can be open and honest and, and nobody, they all have your best interest in mind, right? It's an unbiased, mostly driven on experience for the most part unbiased if you have the right people in the room and it's an opportunity to solve business related issues and create some traction and, yeah, just, just understand how to get the experience in the room to help around your business. And so, I was probably outside peer advisory for a handful of five years, maybe, or something. I don't remember seven even maybe. And yeah, local think tank started to present itself as an opportunity. We had a facilitator, um, and, I was quitting my bank job to go try to start a restaurant. Yeah, I currently eat a little bit of revenue and so a lot of bit of help. Um, yeah, I was going to start local think tank just as a free service and Mike, more intuitive business operator than myself was like, Hey, why don't you at least charge a little bit so you can buy lunch for people and stuff and see if they want to be in local think thing, right? So, um, yeah, so we, uh, we, we started the first chapter and now there's eighty five members. Yes. Yeah. Nine chapters. And that was six years ago. Probably seven year anniversary in February. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm currently on hiatus. I, I hate to report, but, um, and we'll edit that part out. No, you can be back here. Yeah. And here's the reason. I'll be, I'll be frank open and honest is that I've developed a leadership team inside my business that helps make decisions. That doesn't take the place of peer advisory, but it does, it's better than having nothing. It's cool. The burn a little bit, right? It, you know, we, well, you've been on a big travel schedule, Shannon previously mentioned lives in North Carolina. Yeah. I, I lead a complicated life, right? But, um, but nonetheless, I intend to get back to peer advisory as I do, I do miss it. Well, I hope you won't go to another organization. No, no, no. Local think tank is a spot. And, um, yeah, as a, as a co founder, I have, I have a little sniff of, uh, interest in the company. And I, I love to see it grow and, and it's got endless opportunity and, um, people love it. The facilitators love it. Yeah. The members love it. Yeah. Like, it just gets, it just fills a lot of tanks. So, thank you. This is, no, from like, so I gifted Mike a 1% interest along with Andrea, um, probably about two years ago, about the time I went pro on it. And I sold some stock to some other advisory board members because I was broke. I didn't have any money and I had to hire somebody or I had hired somebody more accurately and I had to keep paying her. Hi, Ellie. Nice to see you. Um, but like, it's always been like trying to create something that, that would be the right thing for people. Um, we, we are running out of time. I want to continue with tradition and, uh, touch at least a little bit on faith, family politics. Um, we started, we brushed against it with the, uh, the, the Corona stuff earlier. Yeah. You want to start with politics? Where would you like to go first? And we talked about brother a little bit, but let's, let's get a shout out to your parents in here at least. Yeah. So, so politically, I'm all, uh, I have no representation, by the way, there's nobody that really. Right. Purple. Right. Uh, I, I think Jody Roth calls it, um, socially responsible and fiscally conservative, right? That's probably libertarian. If they didn't suck so much in the party of actually putting it on and forward, but whatever, uh, small government is, uh, is a good government, um, you know, all the things. So any who, I, I don't really have representation. So that's where I fall politically. Um, what do you think about gay marriage? Sure. What, how does it affect me? Why do I care? Sure. Right? Like, as you're affect on me. So, you know, that's great. Um, yeah, I mean, I think that that's outside of what politics should be responsible for, you know, and, and, you know, I think that people forget that we are the United States of America, right? And they, they talk about every vote count and popular vote and it's like, well, it's not popular. Your popular vote does count in your unified state of America, right? It's a United States of America. We can't make all the states the same. Otherwise, it won't work like it's supposed to. Right. Right. Exactly. So, so you as your state, and I'll just call California out because you suck California out. You're broke. New York, you too. You're broken. You want to put all your troubles on us and fix us. Like, you got fixed. Right. So, so, you know, you, sorry, that's the physically responsible part. Right. So, California gets like 52 electoral votes, which is pretty damn close to a large portion of the freaking whole thing anyway, right? Right. So, your votes are counting per person for the most part, by the way, you know, you know, you have a massive slide in it anyway. So, any who, and they could just ship a few people to Arizona and Colorado and be like, hey, you're blue now. Right. And they do. Right. And by the way, you're cynical about the Republican Party as well. You know, they don't, they don't seem to really capture the small business owner in the middle class, right? And the middle class is disappearing in this pandemic is even more pressure on the middle class. There's most people worst. Yeah. Right. So, you know, it's not good. Yeah. You know, and the people that are getting so security are getting protected, but the people they're trying to earn their living or not, right? Like, there's a lot of things, right? And we'll leave it there. And, you know, I guess, let me leave it with this. All the people that talk, I'm not a hoaxer, I believe it's real. But all the people that talk about science and they're like, yeah, but what about the science? I just want to slap them with like a freaking math sign. Like, well, what about the math, right? Like, I mean, come on here, folks, you know, and it's real, right? I hope nobody gets it. My condolence is an empathy to anybody that's suffered from it or passed from it. It's a real thing. And there's people. There's, yeah, there's a lot, yeah. And back to the restaurants, back to the tragedies of the pandemic, back to all the things, right? So it's a challenge, right? And again, I don't know where to fall on it. I don't know where to stand on it, other than it is what it is. And I think we'll learn a lot more when we come out of it. And hopefully, for sure. I hope the premise, and I think you might resonate with me on this, is that, you know, government is to protect the rights of citizens, not to give them rights. And it isn't like, OK, you can operate your restaurant. If I say it's OK, and when I say it's OK, I hate to say that. But it's kind of like, you know, we're giving you the right to do it. It seems like that's kind of shifted lately. Well, the reality of it is is even if my friend owns a restaurant, wants to have me who agrees to go to the restaurant over to his restaurant, like, I should be entitled to go to my friend's restaurant. You know, like, it's, you know, if you don't want to do it, then don't do it. Stay home, right? Anywho. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to get in trouble if you're already getting there. Family. OK. You know, me and my brother are business partners. You don't miss Mother's Day. You twin brother and a sister? We have an older sister, lives in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Me and my brother were the largest twins born in Valley Hospital. Biggies. Yeah. Let's hear it. Eight pounds and nine pounds. Wow. Wow. Mama LeBait. Carry it. I'm not going to make any comments about you. Yeah. 17 pounds. So you don't miss Mother's Day. So, but yeah, you know, we, we've been roommates for a long time. We do a lot of things together. We, yeah, it's good, you know, sister, mom and dad, healthy, happy, 70s. And they, they deserve some recognition. They've helped you a tiny, you know, some with financial stuff here and there or whatever. You know, I've watched a lot of people drink away what they gave us and end up with nothing, but it wasn't a lot. Right. Right. You know, but it wasn't nothing. You know, it's, it was, it was, it was, it was in a spirit, I think. Yeah. Like, where did you get your entrepreneurial spirit? Not from them. No. Nope. That's a union guy. He was a union guy. Yeah. Union guy. He voted for Biden. No. No, no. Oh, actually not. No, he's a, no, he's a, he's a small government kind of guy too. Gotcha. Awesome. So, um, yeah, mom and dad are healthy, happy, um, God bless them. Yeah. Call them out. Yeah. Tony and Diane LaBea. God bless them. They're, they're good folks and good faith. I love your son. Tony and Diane. Yeah. Diane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they, they do a good job. And I live in Florida and happy and healthy. So that's great. Um, sister married with two kids and happy and healthy too and, you know, so that's, that's good. So what, what do we do? We haven't had faith yet. Politics fan. Well, I would, again, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My partner Shannon is, is, is just, you know, a blessing in my life and, and her two children are, uh, links and, and Ruby links, links, links, like LYNX, like the NYNX, like the animal. And he's, he's, he's just a pleasure, not everybody can say like the animal after they say their name. I, I do prepare, like the animal, right? Like the animal. Right. Um, yeah. Links is, he just actually turned three last week and he's, he's, he's a, he's a fun little guy. Yeah. He's a, he's a funny little guy. Funny little dude. And, uh, yeah. So Asheville, North Carolina is a portion of my life and, and that's a great place too and, um, enjoy it. Um, you know, faith. I, you know, I've always just followed the, followed the path of, of what I'm drawn to. Right. And I believe in God and I believe in Jesus and I believe in the, the faith of the world. And I've never adopted religion necessarily. I've never followed the Bible. I've never read it much. I've attended church here and there. But I've always had the connection and the draw to know that doing, yeah, and doing the right thing is going to get you where you need to be, right? And, and treating people right and, and, um, having a level in rule kind of guy, having generosity and, and, you know, um, uh, one of the, one of the, like, uh, the local think tank core values or, or, or, or sayings is, is, um, share of your abundance and ask of your needs, right? So, so, having that level of, and the rotary service above self and all the things, right? And, and, you know, being a good person and, and being in the flow of life and, and, you know, um, not knowing those opportunities. Being generous and, you know, not being, yeah, and, and, and recognizing them and valuing them along the way, living, living with gratitude, you know, and, and, um, shout out to Todd Quinn, too, you know, yeah, Quinnie, you know, what, what a great influence in my life. And he, he just gave his to, uh, the battle with ALS after a long time and, and, you know, he, he's ever present, right? And just, you know, just making sure that, um, yeah, you know, I, I, I, I feel for people that would, um, classify themselves or, um, their proclamation is that they're an atheist, right? I don't under, like that to me feels like a deliberate fight against the, like that doesn't feel to me like a natural, like the default should be something's there, right? Like it's hard to deny, right? It's hard to deny when you manifest, like is manifesting really even a word, right? Like manifesting is putting your faith in the, in the universe or your God or whenever you call it to, to, to ask for what you want and need in life. And that doesn't come naturally, right? There's, there's, whatever your faith is, there's a pressure and push to create what you've asked for, right? Um, I like to say to some extent, there's like, there's, there's, there's having a perspective on life that, that life happens to you or that you make life happen and it's kind of alluding to, to what you're saying there. If, and it doesn't mean that you can, like, change the world and bend the world and manifest everything you want. And if you want to be the biggest TikTok video star in the world that you can just do a stupid video and you're going to do that, you know, but, but there is a certain sense of like leaning into what the universe wants for you. Well, yes, and it's, and it comes from participating, right? It comes from being generous, it comes from caring about people, it comes from how many people have you encountered and you engage with them and they tell you all about them and they never ask about you. This is hard, that person isn't going to be blessed with, and that's a generalization as to a certain degree, however, I would feel that that person is less likely to be blessed with real love and real giving in life, right? Because the only way to receive is to give, you know, and, um, so yeah, I think that plays a lot in the face. And, and let's touch on that for, we're going to, we're going to exit pretty quick here, I promise. But you're one of the relatively few people that I've brought into rotary, yeah, rotary international. Yeah. Rotaries, and, uh, stupid pandemic, I miss rotary so much. It's hard to, you know, it's, and zoom, I was there, we've got a raffle. There's a 10k raffle. You can win $10,000, we'll put the link to that site here as soon as we have that page built. Sure. You put Mike LeBate in there. No. No, my podcast. Whatever, my podcast bear in there when it says who sent you to buy the ticket because it's a cred thing. Can you, can you rewind to like two minutes where Kurt said, it's, dude, it's all about you, man. It's your podcast. But anyway, like two hours, we'll, we'll, we'll play for ping pong over that and we'll let you know who won. Okay. So tell me about rotary. Like, tell people about rotary because most people think like rotary is like an old white guy club. No, our rotary has a lot of diversification in the world and, and, and rotary is all about service above self and helping, helping people in the world from, from your own community to across the world. And it's, it's really just, it's to empower you to do good things, right? And maybe make a bigger impact with a bunch of people than you could do even just by yourself. Correct. Right. How do I figure out how to put people and, I mean, the projects we've done from, from vision in Africa, I mean, polio, rotary does the whole polio world. Yeah, polio's almost gone from the world in large part because rotary started investing time and resources in 1981 to try to say, hey, we can get rid of this terrible disease. Right. In our club, personally, the people in our club have donated hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to third world nations in Africa to have clean water and, and real sewage. So we're not end of axors. Yeah, we're not end of axors just because we're, what are we going to do with the math? Right. Right. Yeah, I'm not a hoaxer, man. I believe it's real. Anyway, but yeah, so, so rotary is just a great organization and I would encourage anybody to visit. We, we do teacher of the, we recognize teacher of the month in our local school district. We recognize student of the month in our local school district. We volunteer at our local food bank. We volunteer at, for our local meals on wheels, which delivers seniors food. We volunteer in veterans organizations and we write grants to at least a dozen local organizations and at least a dozen international causes to build things. Yeah. And we, and we do service days and we run fundraiser and then by the ladies and people under 50 in our club, yeah, there's, yeah, it's diversity. There's women of, and there's all ages from the youngest might be 29 to the oldest of, and there's atheists and Christians. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And by the way, that whole group is like 67 people or something, right? Like we do all this stuff, you know, and, and so it's, it's super fun and it gives you the opportunity to feel on generous in the world and, and it gives you an avenue to give back and know that your dollars are well spent and rotary itself matches lots of the dollars that we spend because, yeah, um, it's, it's an amazing organization that has a foundation um, that is perpetual to a certain extent, right? Their foundation, they don't touch their, they don't really touch their core, um, chunk of money. I don't know exactly how it works, but when you donate, they, they run the whole thing off of like the first three years interest earnings off of your donation and then everything else is just stays there and makes money. Right. They're just smart people. And it's a smart system, smart administration. And it's an international organization, it's a worldwide organization, right? It's an international organization. So they do a lot of good things. And I think if I was going to characterize your faith to a certain extent, it's like God's real. He does some stuff and like faith in people, faith in people doing good things is part of what lets the world be a better place. What do you think? Should we, uh, I do need to wrap it up, um, super fun to be at local think tank headquarters in the orange room, wish that we could play some ping pong, but we'll do it another day. And, uh, yeah, just thanks for the opportunity. What do you think our, uh, what do you think our record is in lifetime ping pong? Uh, 51, 51 percent, you 49 percent me. Oh, perfect. Okay. Love you Michael Bay. All right, bro. Let's see you again. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to today's episode of the local experience podcast. This is Kurt Baer, founder of the local think tank and hosted the local experience. And I'm here with Rory Sharer, local business developer and hosted local shorts episodes. We hope you heard some new ideas and business perspectives in this episode. Our mission and all that we do, including this podcast is to share collaborative business ideas and solutions that uplift the business community. Subscribe and follow us for you listen to podcasts to get new episodes as they are released. Curious about local? You can learn more about us at localthinktakes.com where you'll find more information about our chapters, business resources and events for business owners and teachers. If you're looking for perspective, accountability and encouragement along your business journey, why not apply for a chapter near you today? Why not? Why not? Why not? We'll catch you next time on in-depth local experience podcast with me, Kurt. And with me, Rory, for Bite Size Business Lessons in the local shorts. Bye!