EXPERIENCE 258 | Keeping the Choice City AMAZING - A collaboration Podcast with Patrick Souku, Greg Roeder, and former Fort Collins Mayor Jeni Arndt

Welcome to another episode of the LOCO Experience Podcast. Today's episode is a collaboration conversation with the Living in Fort Collins podcast and the Selling Fort Collins podcast hosts namely Patrick Sukup and Greg Raider along with the very recently retired mayor of Fort Collins, Jenny Art. So Jenny Art joined us to talk about the future of Fort Collins. What makes it special? Why would you want to be here if you're from far away and what's going to make us want to stay here for the foreseeable future? So it's a great conversation with some of the most insightful residents of this community and so I welcome you to enjoy together. So I welcome you to enjoy together with me my conversation with Patrick Sukup, Greg Raider and Jenny Art. Let's have some fun. Welcome to the LOCO Experience Podcast. On this show you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond. Our guests share their stories, business stories, life stories, stories of triumph and of tragedy and through it all you'll be inspired and entertained. These conversations are real and raw and no topics are off limits. So pop in a breathman and get ready to meet our latest guest. Welcome to the first collaboration podcast between yours truly the host of the LOCO Experience. Maybe we'll go over here. Yeah. Patrick Sukup with living in Fort Collins the podcast. Greg Raider with the Selling Fort Collins podcast. And Jenny Art, I suppose former mayor of Fort Collins. Yeah. So what I think we should do when I'm Kurt Bear, I didn't say that but everybody knows Kurt Bear. Absolutely. Why don't we set the stage for people that don't know the all of us and do like a 90 second introduction of your place in the world and even your family a little bit so people do who's in the room here. Yeah. So yeah, Patrick Sukup again. This is a kind of one race here in Fort Collins. Been running a YouTube channel called Living in Fort Collins for the last five years. I used to say a small boat teak brokerage but we went underneath a larger brokerage house recently. So I run a team real estate team here in northern Colorado but ultimately you know family raising here in Fort Collins. You kind of learn to take it for granted how amazing of a place this is and then you kind of start to work with people that relocate to the area understand all the cool things that are happening here. And so we started this podcast YouTube channel and really dove deep about all things where Collins Northern Colorado investigating what makes it so awesome. Absolutely. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. I like it. Greg. Yeah, my name is Greg Rader. I have been a real estate agent in Fort Collins for the past over 20 years now. I have helped my entire family tree move here, my parents, my brother, my cousins, my aunts, my uncles. You did it all for the commission's probably, right? Realtors will do anything. It helped. Those early years. Those early years it helped a lot. We all live in a five minute radius of each other, the north side of town, all the little ones, all the adults. And it's been amazing. I'm also teaching at Colorado State University, teaching real estate principles, finance, investments. And yeah, I have the selling Fort Collins podcast. I've had that going on just trying to kind of keep people informed of the trends, the people, the stories that are happening here in Fort Collins. Love it. And Jenny James, outside of being the former mayor, how would you 90 second to us? Thank you for calling me that. I have replaymed my name, which is a very special thing. For 12 years, I had a title, and now I get to tell my name back. Well, I took it from your email. Yeah, I think it's a really cool name. Anyway, yeah. So I guess three weeks old, my parents moved me up here from Boulder where they had big grad students. And my dad was involved in President of the Chamber one year. My mom's been involved in the community a long time. And then had the honor of serving as the mayor from 21 to a few weeks ago. Thank you to the voters of Fort Collins for trusting me. And I'll be moving on to a new adventure. I have just a small LLC and I have a couple people, entities that have asked me to help them out with some, I'm going to be focusing on governance and community relations. I'm also the chair of something called courageous Colorado. You could be like an insider brokering bribes. Yeah, well, just keep doing what I used to. Exactly for the big ones. No, I don't be chair of courageous Colorado, which is basically an election reform group in Colorado, thinking about how we can have policies that really allow people to have their voices heard. Because 52% of Colorado have independence and people in Colorado are saying, maybe the parties aren't really doing it for me, but we certainly want to be able to. Are they going to get all the dead people off the voter rolls too? They are off. We have clean elections. Okay, good. Sorry, I just read the Twitter sometimes and stuff, you know, Kirby and Kurt. Well, today's podcast is really going to be an exploration, I think, of Fort Collins as it is today. Wait a second, who are you? Oh, Kerber. The host of the local experience podcast, also the founder of local think tank, which is a small business peer advisory organization. Patrick's a former member, Greg's a future member when he gets done with his college tour, perhaps Patrick may come back as well. I hope Jenny, we might have a spot for you with this new LLC. You can help us understand how to connect and navigate the, because business and government is a big deal in today's world. And so I'm sure there's a lot of people that could use that expertise. And yeah, so that's me. I've been doing the local experience podcast for just over five years. We must have started pretty similar time, huh, Patrick? Yeah, you're just so much better than I am, I guess. No, no, just better looking. So what we're here for today is really to just develop a conversation. We hope to make this maybe a twice a year check-in collaboration podcast between a couple of my favorite local real estate professionals. And part of the reason is, is clips, you guys know more than almost anybody what's happening, why people are moving here. I mean, I see some of the guests you've had on your both of your podcasts and you're like tuned in to the vibe of why the cool kids move here. Why did your parents live here, Jenny? Well, they have four kids in the youngest. So my dad graduated from grad school in Boulder and they were looking for a family-friendly place to live in Colorado and they decided between grandjunction and four Collins. And two nice towns, two college towns, a lot, a lot of like, but my mom thought that they made the right choice. Great. In 1964 was a little bit isolated for them. So they thought they could. And honestly, the entrepreneur of Spirit, I mean, Mark Sukov was, that's your uncle, my dad's tennis partner. So these sort of relationships and this entrepreneurial spirit that for call, these guys exhibit, I think, and that you all do, is really in our DNA here. It was a very attractive, yeah. When I moved here, it was like, wow, this place is so cool, it's so encouraging. We start a business or start an idea, yeah. We're going to round robbing this a little bit. And I think Patrick, if you don't mind being my first, could you pose a question and then we'll all kind of weigh in a little bit before moving on and maybe we'll explore an adjacent question as it turns up, but I want to have a little bit of time for each topic. No, I mean, I've been tracking and following City Council for last many years and I think it was interesting, you know, watching City Council go from like 30 plus priorities to 13 and it sounds like now they're going down all the way to five. Hey, and I'm a big believer of that, you know, like focus. You know, if you're focusing on too many things, you're focusing on nothing. And so I think the question to begin with is like, what are the two to three things that like Fort Collins does better than anybody else that the reality is is that's where maybe we should be investing like all of our dollars, not like trying to attract every type of business or specific or anything along those lines, but what are the two to three things that makes Fort Collins pretty unique amongst you talking about especially around industry? No, I'm talking industry. I'm talking flowers in Old Town Square, being a tourism destination, Colorado State University, you know, being a tier one research institution. I think what are the things that we should just be as a community focusing on? Like, it's an 80-20 rule, right? It's like 20% of what we invest in is going to bring back 80% of our return. So what is that 20% that we should be focusing on? Greg, that's an easy one. One of the things that comes to mind right away for me is parks and trails. You know, you meet some people, the people at the city that are behind the scenes that are like absolute legends, people that have been working on these things for decades. I mean, literally decades to make these trails perfect. These parks, Spring Canyon Park, City Park, Twin Silo Park. We have, I mean, some of the nation's best parks. The Puder River Trail System is a gem. People come here from all over the country, even other parts of the world, and they cannot believe it. They're riding their bike along the river. I mean, there's no traffic. They're looking out at the mountains. They're looking out over water. They're having this experience. They're having it quite frequently because we have 300 days of sunshine a year. Even when it's cold out, it's warm out. These. So don't pause that for all of that. And continue to triple down on that. And we'll talk more about old town too. That's our, you know, another gem. But parks and trails comes to mind immediately for me. To me, I always jump to economics kind of and like monetizing the ideas that come out of CSU, you know, using its position as, you know, longtime agri research kind of elements both in the animals and the plants. But also now we've got, you know, all kinds of more jobs moving here that are part of the government infrastructure. But leading into that sector a little bit more to me seems right. It's not just because I'm a farm kid. But, you know, as, as AI does more and more things, you know, one thing it can't do is make food for us, you know, and we all need food. And so to the extent that we can address kind of more efficient practices around making food, animal husbandry, all that stuff, that's going to keep even if even if there's a lot of disruption, which I expect there will be in the long run, we have to keep food affordable for the population to really thrive. I think for me to answer your question, I would double down on this innovation culture. And I think that leads to what you're talking about. And this idea that, you know, I always say every one of four calls has a side hustle and somebody goes, what are you talking about? And I was at the Silver Grill having breakfast with somebody and I said, what do you mean? I said, well, let's ask our server and she came up and I said, obviously you work at Silver Grill, what do you do anything on the side? She goes, yeah, I make organic pit food. And I said, see, that's the spirit, I think, of four calls, which grows the great jobs. The industry has been fantastically successful, see issue, the spin-offs. If you are the kind of city that draws an imaginative, creative, dynamic person who knows that they can try something and fail and be accepted, I think it creates that dynamism that I would be looking for to keep alive before Collins. How do we keep that alive here? What do you guys think? Because I couldn't agree more that innovation culture I've never heard of put quite that way. But I mean, you see that everywhere. I mean, I see that with Patrick. I see that with, you know, him, you know, doing his live reports there. There isn't anybody that's keeping on top of the city happening, what's happening with council. I mean, he can just rattle off these things. He's done that in the real estate space. Your server is doing that in the organic pit food space. And everything in between is happening in this city. And then we've had four different residents on the show Shark Tank since the show Shark Tank started. Is that right? And I'd be curious to see the stats, you know, per capita, what city has had the most contestants on Shark Tank. We have to be up there. Yeah. Well, and sorry, no, I still want you to answer your own question as well. No, because I I'm curious also, like as far as like what Greg said, that's how do we do that? So one of the things that we have is the brain drain, right? So it's like it's hard, it's hard to live here. It's it's not affordable. It's if you're working at silver grill and creating the organic pet food, it's like you still have to have a place to live and work. And so it's like and maybe like the high enough paying jobs in the meantime while you're having that innovative. So I think it's it's a challenge. It's something exciting because there is that young youthful energy that brings kind of that innovation and not just that too. I saw really interesting like Instagram of like today's influencer versus yesterday's influencer. And yesterday's influencer was like big muscle meathead or beautiful beautiful woman. But today's influencer is an 84 year old, you know, yeah, our homemaker that just truly knows their stuff. And so I think, you know, somebody who brings that innovative design and you know, to drive isn't necessarily a young person it can also be an older person. So I think it's really a question is like how do we like maintain well and cultivate that as the token libertarian in the room. I would say how do you know you're the token maintaining a I think you know, make her maintaining a very fiscal responsible city to me is a big part of that. Yes, love the parks, love the trails and things. And it's it's risky to get over your skis and how much government you spread on. And I wrote about this in my blog last month about the the downtown parking. You know, for me as a one time startup business founder, if I if I've just spent seven dollars to sit in a coffee shop and buy a nice coffee with a tip, that's nice. But if I have to spend six dollars to park also, I'm probably not doing it, you know, and so then do I lose that connection, you know, do I have to register for a kill and be a member here. And so whatever that cost of occupancy of of mixing of connecting with people, the lower that cost can be the better. I would agree. I you know, the on the parking thing, I'm curious for more information to come out. How much will it actually cost? I'll never forget an experience I had in the year 2010 Los Angeles. My first time there was excited to check it out, park my car in the parking garage, walk around. There wasn't much going on. I think their downtown has improved since then. Less actually just over an hour later. I went back to the parking garage, pulled out. It was $52 in 2010 to park. Was that for 24 hours and you just used a couple of hours? No, that was for an hour. That's crazy. They're downtown core urban areas. Well, I wonder why it was quiet down there. Well, right, right, maybe. And so I think it's, look, if it is, you know, six dollars to park for you to go in and buy a coffee, that's one thing. If it's in one dollar, two dollars, I think there's probably a way to make that make sense. And it seems to me that we're at least taking a measured approach to these types of things at the city level that I appreciate. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's better than, I mean, as long as it be kind of automated and stuff, but I want to get stuck on parking for too long. And Jenny, I do too. Yeah, well, when I was encouraging the city to do is plainly state the problem you're trying to solve and then approach the business community in old town and solve it together. So if we are having, because free parking is not free, we're all paying for that. So it's a question of how you share, you know, it's a classic economic, you know, you have a scarce resource, which is space in old town to put your car and how do we share that? So there's different ways to do it. There's charging for parking. There's a BID district you could have, a start down there. Uh, you could, you know, fundamentally, I was encouraging city to go back to the drawing board on partner harder with the downtown business district to see how they wanted to help solve. But first, the city had to present the actual problem. We're having a shortfall this much because of forcements this much and our maintenance is this much. This is these are the dollars we need to recover to be fair to the rest of the public who doesn't part there. Yeah, right? Who's subsidizing that and then go and say, how we solve it? That's more intuitively appealing for people to be part of solving. The first thing you need to know the problem and then they need to, because government is us, we need to be the one solving it. Well, I love it, honestly. Like in my grandma gets mad at me because I told her she's like, I can't believe they're going to be chartering. I'm like, I think it's great. We have options. You can park within that like six block radius and pay a buck or you can park outside and park for two hours. You can park even four blocks away and walk. There's options, which I'm a big believer of. But I also love the closed loop system, kind of like we have on the golf course here. It's it's self-funding. The golf doesn't charge the city anywhere. Whereas the parking is the same thing. It's like we have parking infrastructures, everything costs. So either they're going to charge the entirety of the city for cons. A tenth of a cent on every dollar spent to get the parking structures or they're going to charge those who are choosing to voluntarily spend their money downtown. A dollar to keep the infrastructure up. And then also they said they're going to have an over potential overage, which they were going to put money back into downtown for a call. And so if we're getting all the way back to my question as far as what should we be reinvesting in. It is this is funds that people are spending already to go downtown to reinvest in downtown. And if downtown is the jewel of for columns, like I am as big of a problem. So whatever it takes to keep that. Yeah, absolutely. Whatever it takes to keep that. I mean, when people come here from outside of the market, we talked about parks and trails. Yes, but the core reason they're coming here where they are starting is old town. It's the silver grill. It's little on mountain. It's, you know, fill in the blank. I mean, there's so many great options. Old town square. Old town square. So look, yes, I agree 100%. Let's do next question for you, Greg. Yeah, I'm curious. What are the three of you most excited about when you, and I'll answer my own question first. And then, you know, what are you most excited about over the next three to five years? And then what are you most concerned about? Are there any concerns? You know, what I'm most excited about is I see four columns right now is almost Austin, Texas, 25 years ago. You look at the tech sector, you look at the healthcare sector, you look at the public university and how that's grown. You look at the nature trails and all of these things, the downtown areas. It's different. It's a smaller footprint. It's never going to have the same population simply because we have the height zoning restrictions, etc. We will densify, we will not densify that much. But I look at what were that's going with, you know, things like public transit, even as amazing as the trails in the parks are now, like where that could go, the restaurants, the amenities, the coffee shops, the retail, just the family friendly atmosphere. I just, I kind of, I kind of see that. And it's not that, look, it's we're tracking towards any perfect other city. I think it's going to be four columns in this own unique way. But I see these things happening. And it's to me, that's the most exciting thing. And yeah, I think if there's, if there's anything I'm the most concerned about, it's probably just, you know, things like traffic. And, you know, how do we manage this process in a way where we're, you know, we're not having issues with traffic, issues with crime, issues with some of these other things that will inherently be challenges to confront with larger populations. Well, for me, it's always social, right? So what I'm excited about is I, people for columns are amazing, right? Stop and look around you. You find people bringing in their neighbor's trash, or he's like, just constantly, just slow down and watch. And you see it every day, right? So I guess next week is random act of kindness week, right? So you notice these things. So that's what I'm excited about, the continuation of that. I also feel like the voters of four columns choose very wisely. So they chose to reinvest in our city, and add more sales tax, reinvest, invest their money, and do the climate tax, the transportation tax, the wreck tax, right? So when they have this fundamental trust in each other, which I think is vital. So that's exciting. And then I always worry, on the other hand, about this, the larger national sort of bifurcation that frankly, I don't really see evidence of that much here. I see some, the more than I ever did. But I worry that, so I just worry that people, my biggest hope is, because I don't like to worry that much, my biggest hope is some of this AI and everything where we don't really know what's real and everything, especially in the news and AI, is that it drives us back to each other, and it really drives us back to local. Like we have a neighborhood dinner every month, we have all these things, right? Like you need to like go over and meet your neighbor. Like, so I think some of that, if I have a hope in sort of some of the things that I see that concern me, my biggest hope is that it drives us back to each other. I think that's a good hope. And I hope we see it that way. One of the things I've noticed lately is how much cultural change you can see, like over the last five years. And we had a gathering of our facilitators in January. And I think two of us were drinking alcohol out of eight or something like that in a four o'clock or six, I know it was an evening event. It was like six to eight pm evening event, and nobody's drinking booze. And I think that is good. I mean, see people certainly have a focus on health, but it shows how much cultural change. You know, I've got a glass at home in my cupboard that says, I'm from the Odell's IPA and it says, four Collins water. Like it's a substitute for water in that scene. So, so I think that's an interesting thing. And not by the same token, I think we could see a culture that evolves to become more community centric. And I think part of the opportunity for four Collins is to help leave that conversation. So that, you know, as somebody, you know, like I said, that kind of classic libertarian, but I, you know, there's a lot of context where I'm going to be in trouble if I, you know, if I wore my MAGA hat through the No Kings protests on the corner of college in Mulberry, I would not feel safe doing that. And I'm not saying I do have, actually, I have a visor, but I don't, but I don't, but I don't worry. But I mean, I do. So that's the biggest thing I'm concerned about also as somebody that has always brought diverse viewpoints into the conversation and I enjoyed that. I don't feel safe necessarily in every context, every platform, having some of the views that I hold. So that's a concern of yours in the city going forward. Yeah, no, very much is. I mean, it was a very purple town when I got here and people were all pretty happy about that. And now it's a pretty blue town that there are some, you know, corners of the social media and stuff where it's, you know, you've seen it. And the other way, I like, I always say that we kind of have a no-asshole policy here in Fort Collins. I feel like generally speaking, most people just play by that rule. But yeah, on the fringes, absolutely. You know, there's always going to be that. But like overall, you know, that's kind of a policy that I think we as a community play, play pretty well by, you know, mutual respect. At least the leadership in all the people in government and business and things like that. And I don't think it's a façade. I think it's the actual like character of those individuals that are like, we actually care about this community, care about each other, care about the success of one another. So I hope that that that that kind of game that we play of the no-asshole rule, like I think that I hope that continues. You know, as far as like the AI driving people together, everything like that, hopefully it drives community in bonds closer because we will have to rely on each other. But you know, to answer your question, what am I excited about in the next three or five years? Isn't that certainly for Collins? But I would say Northern Colorado is a region. There's just a ton of investment. I know, say for Collins, one of the things that they're trying to do is like, how do we keep our sales tax dollars here? Because John's town is growing, you know, Centera South with in Loveland, you know, Cascadia is coming along the way, $110 million at the ranch is getting invested, you know, the foothills mall is potentially going to have a $300 million investment. Oh, really? I mean, if it ever gets off the ground. Sure. But there's so much investment in this community. And it's like, yeah, for Collins is growing slowly, like much, much slower than it was. You know, we're expected to get to 250,000 people not by 2050, but maybe it's like 20, 60, 20, 70 and beyond. But I think as a region, the growth in the region is really bringing a lot of cool amenities and like, you know, the $80 million Southeast Community Center. I mean, that's awesome for those people on the South side. So I just am excited about the, especially being like, I talked to with a lot of people who have kids. I'm like, when I grew up, you know, there just wasn't a ton of like competitive sports here. Like the best we could do is like go like travel to Denver, but that with like a region of about a million people now. I mean, it's a it's a pretty like we kind of carry a heavy, you know, heavy punch these days as far as Northern Colorado goes. I just think side about the region in general. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just thinking about that and the worth of growth is heading out. I'm just I envision this world and I wonder if you envision it too in the U2C as well. But like we are, we're just going to this place. I think three to five years from now where, you know, more music venues, you know, you know, more restaurants, more coffee shops, like more comedy clubs, these types of things that are just in these fun, urban environments, but having this in this approachable place. And so where did the, where did people come from? Where does the growth come from? I have worked with so many people from outside of the state the past few years. And that's been well documented. I've talked about that on my podcast too. But here's an interesting stat for you. So six years ago, if you look at realtor.com analytics, and you look at where the clicks come from, you know, really going back to as long as I've been tracking this, which is almost 20 years, it's always been about half of the clicks are coming from inside of Fort Collins, which makes sense, right? People that want to move up and move somewhere else in Fort Collins. Well, the other half has been coming from other places. And the leader has traditionally been the Denver area. Going back six, seven years, Denver was the number one market outside of Fort Collins that was clicking out Fort Collins listings. And it was at about seven percent of all the clicks were coming from the Denver area. What's fascinating is you fast forward to today. And it's 27 percent of all the clicks. I mean, it has, it has spiked in this incredible way. Other areas of spiked to the Phoenix Scottsdale MSA has been bringing more people here. I mean, that's actually next to just over 12 percent of the clicks. But these people from these, these other areas, I mean, they're not just slowly moving here. They're quickly moving here and they're sort of accelerating these things that we're talking about. I have noticed that for sure that Fort Collins has a lot more creditability with the grew up in Denver demographic than it did five years ago, even five, 10 years ago. I think it's as parts of Denver's livability have decreased some with the Lamar Square or not being as vibrant as it was and things like that. Well, then why do I want to pay the extra premium to live down by here when I could live by Old Town Square and Fort Collins for half? So don't disagree. So it's a fair question. How do we make sure we don't mess this up? It's how they're of conversation. I think that's all in all of our minds. For years, though, I'd add the perspective, you know, just the longer perspective. They've been saying that since the 70s, which I love. And that's probably what's helped us maintain. Because it is kind of tricky. You want to keep the good parts while you're adding new parts, right? Yeah. But I love that. It's just pass it on. Yeah, I mean, like last time we spoke, Jenny, I remember you were telling me about how you spent so much time with that stodgy brewery. Just I think it's close to maybe close to where you live. I have been there once or twice. Yeah, I've seen you there at least four times. And you have your neighbors and your friends and you have the community to get together. It's like that's that's that's what this place is. And it's just it's more of that is where we're heading. And I think we all want to see that continue. I do too. And I think it's exciting too. I mean, I think, you know, from my former perspective on City Government, I'm like, I just never understand why we would do the zoning like residential. You live here, but you can't even walk to get a thing of milk. You know, my husband, I just took a trip all around the world. I mean, no other country in the world says you live here, but you work here and you shop here. Nobody ever except for Americans. Right. Which hopefully we're getting more into the mixed commercial residential. It's just a better way of living. It's more friendly. It's easier. It's less carcentric. You know, you can have your car, of course. I'm not saying that. But, you know, if you want to go get some milk and be real, it's great, you know, because I live near beavers like, and I don't know what the food co-op's going to call it, but. See their logo? No. You got a little beaver on it, but I think it's food co-op. Okay. But it's got a little beaver on it. Oh, it's their paint homage to it. Oh, that's right. I love that. I think they open tomorrow. Oh, is that right? Okay. We cannot wait. I'm excited for it to be real open again too. Yeah, it's really. Hey, you're right there too. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was at least a once a month stop for some great fresh bread. It's a month. Every night I'm over there. And you can see it, but all your neighbors are having for dinner. You're like, oh, that looks good. I'll maybe look at that. What's this set up there? So it's a membership, and then you get discounted food prices, or how does that, what's the food? I have a food co-op member. So I'll let Jenny talk about that. Yeah, so the food co-op, yeah, you join. And then, so it's going to be new, because, you know, where it was before. So I went down to join, so I could actually donate to help them get up and going, but then I wanted to join for my mom too. And they're like, no, she's been a member since 1972. I'm like, of course, she has a mom, you already remember, okay, fine. And I think, and we interested to see what they opened, because the food co-op were the sort of limited offerings. Sure. And that is a very public corner with the entire neighborhood shops. Well, it was really hard to shop at the food co-op, because you couldn't park for it close. And then, so you're lugging your food a long ways, whereas now they've got a great parking situation. Yeah. And we bike and walk over there. And really, it was, it's a daily sort of European-style shopping, right? You kind of go and get different, come back. Yeah. So we'll see what the how they've expanded their offerings, because I think they're going to maybe be surprised to how many customers they have. Have a butcher maybe there? Kind of like old beavers. Oh, that would be awesome. I doubt it though. It's complicated. Yeah. The increasing skill set in today's world. I don't know. Jenny, did I give you an opportunity to ask a question? Yeah. I don't think so. I don't think so. Oh, my question was just going to be about, so from my approach for the last 12 years, been in government. So how in the future to build the future that we keep kind of talking about, and I think we have a nice shared vision, not consensus, but a complimentary discussion point. How can government, how can people who aren't in government or the private sector or anybody really, because the government is just us, as I mentioned before, you know, really helped to get in and shape that that leg of the stool. And from the private sector viewpoint, how do you think it's going and how do you think that we as, I'm saying, we now, not as a government can be helpful enough. Yeah. What's that culture? Helping see that vision. Yeah. You know, I think with a nod to my producer, Ben, from this is Noco, he's got a sticker that says local supporting local. And I think if we can expand that messaging and keep that local business centric and even really, in my opinion, like outside of the coffee shop owners and stuff, they don't they don't get too much iron, but a lot of, you know, small business doesn't have as much reputation among the teenagers and the 20-somethings and the 30-somethings because they're kind of big bad businesses, even when they're kind of small. So I think having the culture be really warmly receptive to startups and local businesses and creative concepts and innovation and having that be not a business community trend, but everybody trend of intentionally spending local getting those dollars, research, leading in the local economy and avoiding, you know, there's been a huge absorption of like almost every veterinary practice is no longer a local business anymore. It's all private equity, half of the HVAC and plumbing companies in town are owned by big private equity now. And they're not really local. The owners are not local. They're not donating to the sports teams. They're not lugging their kids around. So really trying to be an intentional local supporting local is one of the things I would say can really, and then the city can help with that messaging too. It is true to like part some things that I, you know, some health care and everything. You can tell when it becomes bought up by private equity, all of a sudden your participation. What happened to associates and family medicine? It's really crazy. And then I promptly quit and seek out a local, but it's hard to have to kind of dig to make sure that that won't still happen. Yeah. No, thanks for your insights there. I'll jump in. I think they're working on it, but cutting a lot of the red tape, you know, for business that are making it easier. They were just listening. And there was like to start a restaurant, 40 steps for a restaurant to go through eight different fees, 12 different review cycles. It was insane as far as restaurant goes. And I think they have an intentionality now to reduce some of that and make it easier for business. It's not so daunting because I will say like, even right now I've got a warehouse that I'm just going for like, unitizing some of them for mailing purposes. And like some of the questions that I've got to go through and hoops I've got to jump through, I'm like, man, this just shouldn't be like that. So I think they're working towards that because you know, I think there's that whole government bloat type thing. It just you didn't mean to get to that point, but all of our son were there. So I think that's, you know, one of the kind of arms that the government could do to help small business, you know, kind of partners just make it a little bit easier, friendly, transparent, easy to understand what steps you have and not like have to backtrack and use 10 different, you know, entities within the government. And then I would also say, you know, we're a, whether it's a 900 million with 300 million dollar kickback or 600 million dollar, you know, budget. I think the government's got a, you know, a heavy, you know, financial arm that they can help small businesses in some form or fashion fees, you know, rebates. However, that might be where if you're truly local and you can show some sort of import export type deal like of staying local of as far as capital and, you know, goods that you're putting in or services putting in. I think that's where I think it could really supercharge some of these small businesses. I agree with all that. That's really good. I mean, what comes to mind for me is a growth mindset and a commitment to informed decision making, like a growth mindset, like I'm not going to make judgments about a business owner, how rich they are, how rich they aren't. Let's just take it down to like the old town levels talking about old town business owners and building owners. They have to kind of work together, right? They might be leasing space in a building. I think a lot of people think, well, that building owner is just a wealthy person. You know, there's kind of bad narrative. They spend a few months speaking. Yeah, yeah. There is that narrative out there. I kind of hear that in certain circles. And maybe in some cases, it's true. Maybe in some cases, it's not. But I think understanding that I think our biggest risk in the old town market right now is when you see property taxes spiking as much as they have the past several years, concurrently with property insurance rates spiking as much as they have the past couple of years. And then concurrently with things like, well, yeah, the cost of goods, if you're a restaurant going up. So now it's more expensive to operate, have a building. A lot of those expenses with triple net lease, if people know what those are, that's when the taxes, the insurance, the common area maintenance gets passed along to the tenant. So look, people think that they're taxing the business owners. They think that little do many of them know again, informed decision making and committing to a growth mindset to understand these things, that those expenses are getting passed along to the tenant. And look, I think just understanding the different sides of this equation, understanding that we want the same thing, a thriving downtown successful business owners, and maybe checking our judgment, checking our preconceived notions at the doors, at the door at certain topics, and sort of just proceeding to talk, have conversations, invitations. And I'm seeing that at CSU right now bringing a lot of people in the private sector into my classes to talk and to speak in my classrooms, to interact with other faculty. And it's just fascinating. Like we all think we know certain things, we have certain opinions, and we all have something to learn myself included every single day, and we need to keep doing that. Hi, this is Clint Jasperson, managing partner at Purpose Driven Wealth. We believe financial clarity leads to a life of contentment and purpose. Our mission is to guide clients through the complexities of wealth management, retirement planning, and legacy, using a values driven, stewardship based approach, focused on provision, contentment, and enjoyment. With more than a century of expertise through thriving, we offer tailored strategies to help individuals and families achieve their goals and embrace generosity, whether you're navigating a life or business transition, or planning for the future, we're here to partner with you every step of the way. To learn more about Purpose Driven Wealth, call 970-330-741. That's one thing that's really changed since my time. I started banking in 1999, really actively. And at that time, the principal and interest of a mortgage was three quarters to 85 percent of the overall. Now, if you own a building outright, you don't have a mortgage on it. The insurance and the property taxes is still a pretty big burden. You don't want to run that thing empty for very long because it costs a lot to have it be that way. That's an interesting thing. That's a tax on being here in Fort Collins in some ways that's different from the cost of the capital, the principal and interest of a mortgage, that those assessments being that high and the weighting of it, it's all complicated. Well, this year was exceptional, right, with property taxes. Property taxes is county. It's also important to know which letter to talk about. That, in my view, was not. My husband is an economist and we own a commercial building and he did the math six ways of Sunday. He said, this isn't a math. This math doesn't add up. This was an intentional decision. How's the county's stewardship? Is the county in good shape financially? Or is it trying to cover some gaps too? That's my guess. Too many firefighters. I think they're going to see some pull back from federal funding and the demands just won't stop, especially in the social services. I don't mean demands, I mean like the services here. My next question for you guys is, is anybody willing to share a taste of the Whizkel with me live on air here? Sure. I'll be. I'll love it. I'm not one of these. I have to pass. I'll pass as well. This one person said yes. The shadow to seed and spirit distilling. It's Whizkel and mezcal. Basic of hybrid cocktail. There you go. And if you didn't take a shot, then you have to try my hot sauce. I'll take a shot of hot sauce. Okay, a shot of hot sauce. So don't take a shot. It's too crazy for that. Yeah, no, we shouldn't have maybe committed to that. So, Krugler, who knows? Patrick, you're tasting notes. You know, I'm a big ol' wimp when it comes to liquor. I didn't have to, I took everything in meat and I go, so we're good. Okay. Not a great endorsement of the seed and spirit. I think it is. Yeah, absolutely. I think it is. So now. Does this sound good on air? Absolutely. It's crunchy. I make sure to do it like every actual thing. So this is by the Metador Mexican grill. This is our new hot sauce, the crazy ginger. That sounds great. And I'll pass this around. I'll ask the next question while you guys think about it. And it's really focused on that innovation space and CSU in particular. CSU has been a driver of innovation, but I wondered to myself, and maybe this goes into the concerns, what would happen if CSU stumbled if it wasn't such a pillar of our economy? And we didn't have innovation coming out of there. I think it's the pillar. Right. By fine. Like it is. By far. It is 35,000 students, 8,000 employed. It is. If it goes down, even, I don't know, 10, 20%, we will feel it throughout the entire city. And I think AI is a real threat there. I think the value proposition for CSU is strongly being challenged as is with all universities across the United States. So it's a matter of how can we reposition ourselves, but in the meantime, hopefully CSU stays strong. And I don't know the inner working at CSU nearly as well as I'm sure a couple of people here. So I'm just hoping they're being physically responsible. And they can kind of like, it's not a game of who can win. It's just how long can you stay in the game? And I'm open CSU can stay in it for a long time. Yeah. Same. CSU. You got kind of an insider's view to Greg. Would you start at just this fall on your CSU professorship? This past, last August. Yeah. So while back in my second semester now. And it is, you know, here's what I'll tell you from, you know, because my viewpoints have changed somewhat on it. Is that become more informed? Like, it is not going anywhere. I could not be more bullish on this place. I mean, like these kids, I'm so impressed by these kids. I am so impressed by the faculty. I'm seeing growth minds as some people who want to grow, who want to get better. I'm seeing kids who are hungry. I know with Evelyn this morning, if Evelyn's listening to this, she, she just got a job with Brandon Grebe at Outplift Development. Cool. Self-Storage members at local. And she, she just got an internship with them. I, you know, another student, Matthew, a little while back here, got a job with Waypoint. I mean, these kids are showing up. They're smart. They're focused. Like, this place, I'll bet all my chips to the center of the table. Like, it is, is amazing. Is CSU is already. I don't think people have any idea where it's going. And in terms of the value proposition, like just watch, like the real estate program, it will be a top five real estate program in the country for job placement within the next five years. Like, that's where we're at 2013. I went to go speak at the real estate school. I think there were 89 people in the program today. We have about 400. Wow. The sales program, you know, the Larry Kendall sales center for excellent. Larry just endowed that. So that's, I mean, that's taking off. We got the sales club together last week. We got the real estate club together with them. We had over 300 people in this ballroom. Larry came to speak. I'm telling you, the talent on display, the things that are happening there. What is coming? I think it's going to blow everybody away. Thank you. Love hearing that. Yeah. It takes some of the trepidation away. Talk about a beautiful marriage of public private, though, right there. You know, like real world experience and the private bringing it to a public institution. I think that's that's awesome. The private sector loves those loves those educated young kids that are motivated. Absolutely. Yeah. And look, and I'm a real estate agent with, you know, Liv Sotheby's International Realty in town. Like, that's what I do my day to day. I'm doing it right now, but I get so much joy and gratification from showing up to CSU campus because you feel the energy. You see the town. You almost feel like a responsibility to kind of like guide these kids. Like it's, it's, it's there. Like you can make an impact. And I'm, it's, and it's, people need to know, it's not just because it's me, someone from the private sector. I mean, these people who have committed their lives to teaching, to educating, like they deserve so much respect. So you really see CSU out competing. It's peers in that university system complex because the, the demographics are what the demographics are. Like there's fewer and fewer kids that are college, go to college age coming online soon. Yeah. The demographic cliff is real. Yeah. That is true. The largest intake this fall ever, right? And when I spoke to some leadership of them, they said, this might be the largest one ever, but the higher ed, and I'm so glad to hear your experience. And I'm so glad they're hiring people like you to bring in that real world experience because, and then Larry Kendall, that sort of community commitment and tie. And like you said, the private, they have to pivot. And it's hard for those big institutions to do this, but they have to pivot into sort of, you know, the future, not just talking about, do we use AI to teach or not? But it's about really preparing people for the future, which is what they've always done. But in a, in a very modern way, very probably workforce-based way, maybe not so much degree oriented, or the degrees could change, right? There's nothing written down that you have to have a bachelor's or a master's and we can't be whatever we call it. I mean, are you prepared to do the jobs that are required in the future? And when you start, I used to work in higher ed, so I think about these things a lot, like you, we need to kind of blow off the doors of like how it used to be so that we can create something new for the future. And I think if they come in with that mindset, you know, all the, then, you know, the sports thing is always interesting to me because it feels like there's two universities, you know, and you guys probably know a lot more about the sports deal and the packed well. They promised if we had a big new stadium, we were going to have a good football team. Yeah, I know they're going to deliver us. Okay, it's all right. I got a thought on that. More, I think more people in Fort Collins just want to ride their own mountain bike, so I don't know. But oh, I talked about that all the time, like why is our stadium empty on a Saturday and fall, it's because, well, we live in Fort Collins. Like you can go mountain bike riding up on the park and it's gorgeous. Yeah, I won't name the other communities, but I can think of somewhere really you would go to the game because I don't know what else you're going to do. But here, like, I don't know, people are like, well, what about this? I'm like, I don't know. And that can be built, that can be bent with, with culture too, right? Like if it becomes a cool thing to do to go and see your friends and stuff, but yeah, it's the product on the field. It's the product on the field too. And I think, you know, that it just hasn't, it hasn't been there in the fall stadium. That helps. Look, we've seen what happens when the product is on the field, right? You remember, it wasn't that long ago. I mean, maybe it was. Garrett Grayson was the quarterback and, you know, we're packing out huge stadium. Look, we can pack out that stadium that's off campus. Yeah. We can pack out the one that's on campus, the on field product. It needs to be better, and it is going to be better. They just made the perfect tire. Jim Mora. I like it. I knew you guys would talk about this. I love it. I just listen. I'm like, I have no idea. This episode is sponsored by Loco Think Tank. Loco Think Tank provides pre-collaboration for business owners. We build smart, safe places to help business leaders navigate every stage of the business journey. And we love what we do and who we do it with. Our model features gift back-minded business veterans and the role of Loco facilitators. We're always looking for abundance-minded individuals to add to our membership, facilitator team, local community, or to feature on this podcast. Listeners of this podcast who go on to become members of Loco Think Tank get their sixth month of membership for free. Just mention the Loco Experience Podcast on your application. To learn more, visit our website at locothink Tank.com. That's l-o-c-o-bink-tank.com. I think we should toast with our tips here and the first person that's able cheers. Thanks for. Okay. We'll really close to the microphone later. And you make this. Matador made it for me. Matador made it for me. This is like V. I love that. V5. Where do they have a building? Yeah, Matador Mexican Grill down in harmony right by the cold stone in the movie theater. Oh, okay. Yeah. They've been there forever. Used to be roughly twice twice as hot as I thought it was going to be. Maybe I'll take a shot of that stuff. I really like that. I'm pouring. It's really good. It was interesting you talked about CSU and like kind of like sports and the product, all that kind of stuff. But it kind of led me to think about, you know, the Bohemian Foundation and how lucky we are to have like kind of a billionaire benefactor to Fort Collins and kind of the impact that she's had on arts, culture, music, you know, throughout Fort Collins and you know, invested into CSU. And I think that's in the Larry Kendall endowment that just happened. All these individuals that are like, hey, pouring back into community. I think that's just something that's like not undervalued because I think people evaluate here. But I think not talked about enough. And it's like how lucky we are to have some of those individuals that like truly care and are investing back in the community at a level that is making a significant difference. Yes. And I think that culture shift is, you know, something the community foundation is already leading of that kind of if the fates allow you to be generous than do so, you know, Larry didn't have to donate whatever it takes to endow the selling center there. The Everett family didn't have to endow the real estate center. They did it because they love this region. And the more we build cool things, the more people like that we can create. And you see generosity coming through not just financial generosity. Sure. But, you know, I already mentioned reference to your uncle, but he's a big mentor of mine in terms of, you know, being mayor of Timnett, and you know, we had a meeting at horse tooth with county electives or something, you know, he didn't have to go. I look up and he's there, like a 630 on Wednesday night. That's also a real form of commitment and generosity and upspirit to a community, um, Northern Colorado, not perfect boards, all those kind of things. All of you, sometimes I just think really great, sorry, but like lawn care, the way people take care of their homes, there's all sorts of ways to be generous and community focused. And I feel like I just see it all the time. And it's, it's really, you know, if you're, if you have the financial wear with all people, aren't there are kicking in, but they're also kicking in in so many other ways. Yeah, I was, I was just thinking one of the ways I'm kind, what was, what's the thing next week? It's random act of kindness day or something, but I almost always shovel my neighbors to each side sidewalk, what it snows, and I've only done it like once or twice this year. That was out of town for one of the three snows we've had. So that opportunity to be randomly kind. You can look for them everywhere. Yeah. I find a lot. Well, let's, I think we're probably approaching an hour on the clock and we can do a little editing, but I feel like one kind of an encouraging note or especially people that are listening to this podcast from outside of for Collins, that know nothing about this region. I'd love to just give them a window into the perspective and the angle that you see it from. And maybe Greg, I'll start with you this time. Two special things about for Collins. Just, just kind of popped into my mind. One were, you know, Valentine's Day was recently here and he's just going back to this community field. People doing nice things. I think there should be a t-shirt that says for Collins nice. And we did this, the other friends have done this two F kids. You know, we have a seven-year-old and eight-year-old and our seven-year-old daughter. She loves art. And on our street, there are a lot of older people. Some of those older people have lost their partner recently as it happens. Ada, our daughter, delivered a Valentine to each person who had lost a partner. In the moment, the magic that created, I can't even tell you. I mean, just you see tears, you see, it's special. It's these little things that happen in this community that I don't take for granted. I don't think anyone here takes for granted and they don't happen everywhere. And let's also talk about just this innovation culture. I want to send a shout-out to Cynthia Eichler. She is the CEO of visit for Collins. Visit for Collins isn't just this little storefront where people can stop in and get a map and find a way around Old Townsburg. She's a banger now. She is absolutely just moving mountains. She is bringing people here to experience our city. You know, a lot of the names she can't even mention. She's putting on these amazing like ram talks. They're kind of like TEDx type talks. And everything from there's such a wide spectrum. You know, once someone was an expert was coming and talking about how elephants communicate in the wild, super fascinating talk. The other one was that the star of the movie, American Pie, that late 90s. He was directing now and he brought his son in and was talking about his artistic journey through directing and bringing his son with him and on that journey. So these ram talks, recruiting these really amazing talented people to experience our city, to then, you know, write about our city, whether it's a journalist for men's health, which that was another one that she brought in to these thought leaders and influencers. That's a really special thing that's happening here. You know, they stay at the Elizabeth, they experience Old Town, they go out to dinner and visit for Collins finances that. You know, through the different avenues where they collect revenue. So those two things that come to mind. Can I chime in on that? Yes, please. Cynthia Eichler, she invited me to go to a board governance conference for the tourism industry last year. So I had the honor of joining her as some of her staff at a national conference. And I give a little talk with a couple of other members, but that's not the story. The story is, do you know exactly what you said, but amongst her peers, she is a national rock star. I mean, you can feel it, but to know it, people kept coming out to me, do you know what you have there? Do you know what she did? Her white paper that she wrote on how to change the whole vision of what a visitor center is, became a national model. So she is one of these maker, creator, and the way that you describe like what she's actually doing the nuts and bolts, it's borne out by her national reputation, respect by her peer. So I'm just smiling the whole time. We're lucky. We're lucky to have her here. Unbelievably lucky. And she's as humble and kindhearted as anybody in the world. Jenny, would you like to chip in for that forecon stranger that's listening? Oh, the forecon, you know, I just, I think forecon is, you know, it's a place where you can be yourself, right? And I was sad to hear that you didn't feel like you could wear your manga visor, not have a visor wherever you wanted, because I think it should be a place of freedom of thought, tolerance, open, open mindedness, and kindness, right? And I think for the most part it is. I think we have a laissez-faire half libertarian attitude here. You know, the richest person in the room is usually the person in carhards or overalls, hanging out, doing their stuff and not talking about it. So I just hope that it's a place where you can move here and be who you want to be and do what you want to do and feel supported and not judged, and you're welcome. I think that. I think that's great. I, you know, I talk with my wife about, you know, one of my maybe biggest regrets or potential like things that I may have missed out on life is I've, you know, born here in forecones. Never lived in New Orleans, or? Oh, and loved one for nine months, you know, north-west love that that. So, you know, I really spread my wings. But then, you know, we work with all these people that relocate here and understand kind of like what's special about forecones, and it's like we went to Urban Egg today and then walked around Old Town for an hour, and it's just clean, well kept, you know, feel very safe, and then it's on a weekend, and it's beautiful 65 in February, which is maybe not amazing, like we should just know here every now and again, but 65 in sunny in February, and we're walking around some of the parks and trail systems that we have here, just out our back door, and our kids go into, you know, Werner Elementary, that's an extremely solid school of teachers that have been there for 20, 30 plus years that just love the school system schooling, and so then I kind of take a step back and be like, I know, I think I've had enough people move away for college, move back when they're raising their family, and people have relocated here, and they're like, no, this is a pretty special place. So I'll just take their word at it for the next, at least my youngest is four, so the next 14 years, and when he graduates college, you know, maybe we'll get a second house here there, and go explore some places. I think for then, that's what, you know, I'm, I'm going to tuck up with the water, well twofold, one, the water that you drink out of the tap here in Fort Collins is amazing, like people that come to visit, and it's like our exchange students, my wife and I host a lot of exchange, and it's like your water is so good. But also more importantly, to the experience is the Puder River Corridor, the trail, the Puder Canyon with, I don't know, a dozen campgrounds and taillouse areas in a 30-mile stretch, Red Feather Lakes, a chain of finger lakes that's kind of been the mountain retreat for Fort Collins, residents for a hundred years, the horse tooth reservoir, hopefully someday the Glade reservoir will be a recreation mecca as well as a, you know, a water supplier for many local communities, and in a state and a region where water is so precious, like having that experience, when I moved here that was one of the coolest things, I thought horse tooth was amazing and got some time in the lakes and it was like that's so cool, and then I tube the river and just about killed my wife when we got off the tube, anyway, longer story, not for this venue, but the water, there's something in the water, and you'll like it. Ben, you get that, I think that's a good t-shirt for you, there's something in the water. Something in the water. Well, I think you guys are awesome, each and every one of you at this table, and thanks to the Killin' Fort Collins for hosting us here and there. Very small and stuffy podcast studio, the Crazy Ginger Hot Sauce, thanks you guys, I'm glad you liked it, Greg, even despite it being a little space here. I was actually, I liked, I liked even better because it was spicier, it was a little bit unexpected, but in a good way. Well, with a name like Crazy Ginger, you got to have delicious. Good, well, we'll be selling that stuff here pretty soon. Thanks for the invitation. Thanks for you guys, appreciate you. Thanks Greg. Bye for now. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Logo Experience Podcast, proudly produced and sponsored by Logo Think Tank, Colorado's premier peer advisory organization. This is your producer, Ava Menus. To find all of our episodes or nominate a future guest, check out our website at thelogoexperience.com. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, x.com, and LinkedIn at the Logo Experience. To support the show, be sure to follow, subscribe, and share. Until next time, stay Logo. This episode is sponsored by Logo Think Tank. Logo Think Tank provides peer collaboration for business owners. We build smart, safe places to help business leaders navigate every stage of the business journey, and we love what we do and who we do it with. Our model features gift back minded business veterans and the role of Logo facilitators. We're always looking for abundance, minded individuals to add to our membership, facilitator team, local community, or to feature on this podcast. Listeners of this podcast who go on to become members of Logo Think Tank get their sixth month of membership for free. Just mention the Logo Experience Podcast on your application. To learn more, visit our website at logothinktank.com. That's l-o-c-o-thinktank.com.