Sept. 20, 2025

EXPERIENCE 238 | Voluntary Suffering for Personal Growth, Trust, Neuroplasticity, and Tasting the Infinity Bottle with Clint Jasperson, Founder of Purpose Driven Wealth

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Season 5

In this episode of The Loco Experience podcast, I reconnected with Clint Jasperson, the Founder of Purpose Driven Wealth with Thrivent Financial.  Clint was my guest on Episode 67 of The LoCo Experience - way back in June of 2022 - and it was great to have him back in the studio!  When I left the financial planning industry back in 2017, it was Clint and his team to whom I trusted my small book of business, he’s a natural at the craft and has worked through some very complex cases.  

We started by enjoying some Noah's Mill Bourbon and delved into tasting notes, appreciating its rich and traditional flavor.  Clint shared some recent reflections on the importance of voluntary (and involuntary) suffering for personal growth and how cultivating integrity and compassion can set humans apart from AI.  We also touched on Clint's use of therapeutic psychedelics like ketamine to enhance neuroplasticity and aid in trauma healing, and what is the good life that everyone is seeking - emphasizing the balance between provision, contentment, and enjoyment.

We also explored the general topic of trust, and especially the growing societal distrust of wealth - and the need for visionary leaders who can instill hope and integrity, especially in business, but also media, education, and government institutions.  In the latter portions of our conversation, Clint became the first to sample our Infinity bottle, a mix of all the distilled spirits that have been tasted on the show in recent months - roughly 2 parts tequila, 2 parts bourbon, and 1 part rye whisky!  Yum!  

Finally, Clint looks forward to future podcast appearances to dive deeper into specific topics, and we put in a shout-out - what do you want to know more about?  Clint is a philosopher and a futurist, and one of the smartest cats I know, so please enjoy, as I did, my most recent conversation with Clint Jasperson.

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Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.359 --> 00:00:07.440
In this episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, I reconnected with Clint Jesperson, the founder of Purpose-Driven Wealth with Thrivent Financial.

00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:15.179
Clint was my guest on episode 67 of the Loco Experience way back in June of 2022, and it was great to have him back in the studio.

00:00:16.469 --> 00:00:23.190
When I left the financial planning industry back in 2017, it was Clint and his team, to whom I trusted my small book of business.

00:00:23.219 --> 00:00:26.309
He's a natural author craft and has worked through some very complex cases.

00:00:26.655 --> 00:00:26.684
Okay.

00:00:27.524 --> 00:00:33.704
We started by enjoying some Noah's Mill bourbon and delved into tasting notes, appreciating its rich and traditional flavor.

00:00:34.604 --> 00:00:44.804
Clint shared some recent reflections on the importance of voluntary and involuntary suffering for personal growth and how cultivating integrity and compassion can set humans apart from ai.

00:00:45.884 --> 00:00:58.545
We also touched on Clint's use of therapeutic psychedelics like ketamine to enhance neuroplasticity and aid and trauma healing, and what is the good life that everyone is seeking, emphasizing the balance between provision, contentment, and enjoyment.

00:00:59.865 --> 00:01:11.775
We also explored the general topic of trust, and especially the growing societal distrust of wealth and the need for visionary leaders who can instill hope and integrity, especially in business, but also media education and government.

00:01:12.870 --> 00:01:25.349
In the latter portions of the conversation, Clint became the first to sample our infinity bottle, a mix of all the distilled spirits that have been tasted on the show in recent months, roughly two parts tequila, two parts bourbon, and one part rye whiskey.

00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:26.189
Yum.

00:01:27.329 --> 00:01:33.599
Finally, Clint looks forward to potential future podcast appearances to dive deeper into specific topics, and we put in a shot out.

00:01:33.780 --> 00:01:34.890
What do you wanna know more about?

00:01:35.594 --> 00:01:39.075
Clint is a philosopher and a futurist, and one of the smartest cats I know.

00:01:39.165 --> 00:01:43.245
So please enjoy as I did my most recent conversation with Clint Jesperson.

00:02:20.955 --> 00:02:23.686
Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast.

00:02:23.686 --> 00:02:25.586
I'm here with my friend Clint Jasperson.

00:02:26.205 --> 00:02:36.735
He is the founder of Purpose Driven Wealth with Thrivent Financial and also, um, the person to whom I transferred my clients to when I left the industry.

00:02:36.825 --> 00:02:37.425
Thank you Clint.

00:02:37.575 --> 00:02:37.725
Mm-hmm.

00:02:38.445 --> 00:02:44.415
Um, and we were drinking, uh, Noah's Mill Bourbon.

00:02:44.806 --> 00:02:45.586
It's delicious.

00:02:45.645 --> 00:02:46.575
It is delicious.

00:02:46.695 --> 00:02:50.746
Um, would you like to, uh, like share any, you can, you can just swing that thingy out.

00:02:50.806 --> 00:02:51.316
I told you.

00:02:51.436 --> 00:02:51.915
Oh, swing.

00:02:52.036 --> 00:02:53.116
Oh, when I'm, when I move.

00:02:53.145 --> 00:02:53.506
Okay.

00:02:53.506 --> 00:02:53.836
Got it.

00:02:53.836 --> 00:02:54.705
Yeah, you can just swing it out then.

00:02:54.705 --> 00:02:55.306
Just bring it back.

00:02:55.336 --> 00:02:55.725
Okay.

00:02:55.816 --> 00:02:56.205
Nice.

00:02:56.686 --> 00:02:57.496
I mean, I get it.

00:02:57.496 --> 00:03:00.406
I lot more been here a lot more than have Yeah, you're a little

00:03:00.406 --> 00:03:01.545
bit, uh, more experienced.

00:03:01.545 --> 00:03:02.445
So we're gonna, we're gonna

00:03:02.445 --> 00:03:07.096
do, so this, we learned recently a weed ram, uh, from Ryan Wallace.

00:03:07.096 --> 00:03:08.866
I was having time with him, actually.

00:03:08.866 --> 00:03:10.216
We were talking about weed rams.

00:03:10.786 --> 00:03:18.735
Um, and, uh, so like when you just do a little taster, just enough to get your tongue wet a few times, that's a, a weed ram of bourbon.

00:03:19.006 --> 00:03:21.645
I've got a little bit more than a weed ram, but it's still just you do, I I

00:03:21.645 --> 00:03:22.996
over pour you a tiny bit, but Yeah.

00:03:22.996 --> 00:03:25.366
Just we'll say that was an accident on Kurt's behalf.

00:03:25.366 --> 00:03:25.515
Yeah.

00:03:25.515 --> 00:03:26.536
Even though it might have been, uh,

00:03:26.985 --> 00:03:28.096
a little bit more intentional.

00:03:28.156 --> 00:03:28.216
Yeah.

00:03:28.246 --> 00:03:29.145
You know, loosened the tongue.

00:03:29.566 --> 00:03:31.846
Oh, and I was going to, oh, so tasting notes.

00:03:31.846 --> 00:03:32.445
Let's start with that.

00:03:32.866 --> 00:03:34.425
Tasting notes on the Noah's Mill.

00:03:34.695 --> 00:03:37.876
Thank you Ben Holtz, uh, for the birthday gift.

00:03:37.876 --> 00:03:39.466
This was a gift from Ben.

00:03:39.526 --> 00:03:39.855
Yeah.

00:03:39.855 --> 00:03:40.306
Thank you Ben.

00:03:40.306 --> 00:03:41.116
So look, really nice guy.

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I got to meet him.

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Local Tank didn't even buy this bottle.

00:03:43.820 --> 00:03:49.455
Usually local think tank buys the bottles, or some of our guests bring bottles for future guest reference.

00:03:49.545 --> 00:03:50.056
Hmm.

00:03:50.265 --> 00:03:50.686
Okay.

00:03:50.686 --> 00:03:51.151
Good to know you.

00:03:51.151 --> 00:03:51.841
You could've done that.

00:03:51.841 --> 00:03:53.355
I'll, I'll send you my thank you gift in the mail.

00:03:53.475 --> 00:03:53.985
Okay.

00:03:54.915 --> 00:03:55.515
Smells good.

00:03:55.575 --> 00:03:56.686
So what's it remind you of?

00:03:56.686 --> 00:04:04.096
Uh, I know you're not an avid bourbon drinker, but you said warming the first sip.

00:04:04.366 --> 00:04:05.205
Yeah, I was warming.

00:04:05.265 --> 00:04:06.735
Um, there's something sweeter there.

00:04:06.735 --> 00:04:08.566
Maybe caramel, vanilla, I don't know.

00:04:08.746 --> 00:04:11.866
Something sweeter like those types of flavors.

00:04:11.925 --> 00:04:12.165
Yeah.

00:04:12.225 --> 00:04:13.395
I'm not great at this kind of thing.

00:04:13.395 --> 00:04:13.515
This

00:04:13.515 --> 00:04:23.355
would be, I would say a very traditional bourbon, like, just kinda like the Odell IPA is like the classic IPA that everybody has'cause it tastes just like an IPAI spoke to.

00:04:24.225 --> 00:04:24.915
Same with this.

00:04:25.125 --> 00:04:25.846
It's delicious.

00:04:25.935 --> 00:04:26.415
I like it.

00:04:26.925 --> 00:04:27.105
I'm a fan.

00:04:27.105 --> 00:04:29.206
So before we get going, um, good job, Ben.

00:04:29.596 --> 00:04:36.105
Part of the reason why I'm no longer with private financial is this disclaimer as I understand from you staff.

00:04:36.105 --> 00:04:37.065
Welcome, welcome to the industry.

00:04:37.065 --> 00:04:37.605
Folks.

00:04:37.696 --> 00:04:40.755
I need to read three paragraphs of legalese before we in, I got this outline of

00:04:40.755 --> 00:04:46.815
our conversation that will be loosely followed, uh, but um, followed Peyton, if you're watching.

00:04:46.906 --> 00:04:47.206
Yeah.

00:04:47.266 --> 00:04:51.586
Certified financial Planner, board of Standards Center for Financial Planning Inc.

00:04:51.675 --> 00:05:06.286
Owns and licenses the certification Mark CCFP, certified Financial Planner and CFP that look like the same, uh, with clock design in the United States to Certified Financial Board of Standards, Inc.

00:05:06.286 --> 00:05:14.266
With which authorizes individuals who successfully complete the organization's initial and ongoing certifications requirements to use the certification.

00:05:14.266 --> 00:05:21.031
Marks Thrivent and its financial advisors and professionals do not provide legal, accounting or tax advice.

00:05:21.975 --> 00:05:28.485
Consult your attorney or tax professional, even though you're pretty smart about most of those things.

00:05:28.516 --> 00:05:30.165
Provide good tax education.

00:05:30.675 --> 00:05:37.935
Thrivent provides advice and guidance through its financial planning framework that generally includes a review and analysis of a client's financial situation.

00:05:38.386 --> 00:05:47.745
A client may choose to further their planning engagement with Thrivent through its dedicated planning services and investment advisory service that results in written recommendations for a fee.

00:05:48.735 --> 00:05:56.446
Thrivent is the marketing name for Thrivent Financial for Lutherans Insurance products listed by Thrivent, not available in all states.

00:05:56.745 --> 00:06:02.235
Securities and investment advisory services operate offered through Thrivent Investment Management, Inc.

00:06:02.565 --> 00:06:06.136
A registered investment advisor member FINRA Efan.

00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:14.130
Yeah, FINRA and SIPC and a subsidiary of thrivent thrivent.com/disclosures for more information.

00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:16.380
Thank you Kurt, for doing that.

00:06:16.380 --> 00:06:19.471
You're lovely for, uh, allowing me to, yeah.

00:06:19.471 --> 00:06:19.951
That's awesome.

00:06:20.521 --> 00:06:20.911
Awesome.

00:06:21.211 --> 00:06:27.271
So why don't you, you were on this podcast probably season two or so, right?

00:06:27.271 --> 00:06:27.901
Like it was

00:06:27.990 --> 00:06:29.221
a ways in early-ish

00:06:29.221 --> 00:06:29.730
days.

00:06:29.761 --> 00:06:29.911
Yeah.

00:06:29.911 --> 00:06:34.531
Not the first You had a more formal setup, like you were excited'cause you had headphones, I think.

00:06:34.771 --> 00:06:35.161
Yeah.

00:06:35.161 --> 00:06:35.670
It was awesome.

00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:37.050
It was awesome.

00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:43.350
And you and I could wax on for like four hours, so we actually kind of put an outline together and I, I don't even remember all the things we talked about.

00:06:43.350 --> 00:06:44.310
We went like three hours.

00:06:44.401 --> 00:06:44.461
Yeah.

00:06:44.461 --> 00:06:44.880
I can't see you.

00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:46.201
Very good with my reading glasses on.

00:06:46.350 --> 00:06:46.500
Yeah.

00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:47.161
I took mine off.

00:06:47.161 --> 00:06:48.031
You can take yours off.

00:06:48.211 --> 00:06:48.391
Yep.

00:06:49.531 --> 00:06:55.141
Um, and um, so for people that didn't listen to that one mm-hmm.

00:06:55.440 --> 00:06:59.730
Purpose Driven Wealth, why don't you give us a, uh, encapsulation of.

00:07:00.555 --> 00:07:05.266
What you're doing, who your team is, um, where you're who, where you're serving.

00:07:05.505 --> 00:07:05.776
Mm.

00:07:05.776 --> 00:07:05.956
Okay.

00:07:06.016 --> 00:07:09.165
Yeah, we'll start with that just'cause people don't know you yet.

00:07:09.406 --> 00:07:12.045
'cause most people that listened back then don't listen anymore.

00:07:12.076 --> 00:07:12.766
Yeah, sure, sure.

00:07:12.766 --> 00:07:14.865
We've got new listeners and the old ones are gone.

00:07:14.865 --> 00:07:15.346
Sorry.

00:07:15.435 --> 00:07:18.495
No, it's hopefully we still have so many ones I listen.

00:07:18.946 --> 00:07:22.545
Um, thanks for listening for those that are, um, okay.

00:07:22.545 --> 00:07:23.805
So Purpose-Driven Wealth.

00:07:24.286 --> 00:07:28.995
Uh, more than a decade ago, I left the benefits consulting business.

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I worked for a company called Cigna to start a financial services firm, uh, affiliated with Thrive Now named Purpose-Driven Wealth.

00:07:35.745 --> 00:07:41.596
We have two physical locations in, uh, one in Northern Colorado, one in Wyoming.

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Uh, and then we have a.

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Uh, sort of side arm of our organization where investment advisors affiliated with Thrivent, uh, pay us for various services, et cetera, where their clients get to experience some of the products, ander some of the resources that we've cultivated for a freight a fee.

00:07:58.365 --> 00:07:59.925
So that's like a little bit about our core business.

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So kinda

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more sophisticated clients from some other less sophisticated and people like I was Yeah.

00:08:05.451 --> 00:08:05.511
Yeah.

00:08:05.516 --> 00:08:08.865
I would can send their, their clients to you.

00:08:08.896 --> 00:08:09.016
Yeah.

00:08:09.016 --> 00:08:09.255
Maybe.

00:08:09.255 --> 00:08:10.216
And share the share in the dough.

00:08:10.305 --> 00:08:10.545
Yeah.

00:08:10.545 --> 00:08:13.696
I'd say what I'd say by that is like, um, sorry.

00:08:13.725 --> 00:08:14.266
No, it's okay.

00:08:14.716 --> 00:08:15.255
Thank you.

00:08:15.315 --> 00:08:15.646
Uh,

00:08:15.855 --> 00:08:17.685
you're like thinking about how compliance can

00:08:17.685 --> 00:08:17.836
make

00:08:17.836 --> 00:08:19.276
sure they prove your response.

00:08:19.276 --> 00:08:19.786
Of course.

00:08:19.786 --> 00:08:20.026
No.

00:08:20.461 --> 00:08:23.281
Uh, no, I mean, it's, uh, rather than sophistication.

00:08:23.341 --> 00:08:28.591
Um, I think sometimes people that are really good at earning trust aren't as skilled at maintaining trust.

00:08:28.591 --> 00:08:42.150
And what I mean by that is, um, they're really good at explaining things and earning that initial trust, but developing systems or, you know, processes, procedures, et cetera, and, or they might have lack of expertise in working with certain clientele so we can step in and, and help there.

00:08:42.510 --> 00:08:46.980
You've kind of systematized enough to be beyond what a solopreneur.

00:08:47.716 --> 00:08:48.676
Yeah, that would be, yep.

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Representative can do.

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Yep.

00:08:49.995 --> 00:08:50.745
Exactly.

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And so our team here, uh, you know, the, the core business is us serving clients, uh, trying to create clarity and confidence in their finances.

00:09:00.255 --> 00:09:07.216
And we've got a team of, you know, call it roughly 10 people, uh, and in various roles.

00:09:07.216 --> 00:09:15.556
But essentially we're just walking, we're trying to steward our client's trust, uh, in the context of finances, but that bleeds over to many aspects of their life.

00:09:15.556 --> 00:09:17.566
And we do it through a stewardship framework.

00:09:17.625 --> 00:09:27.436
So, you know, assuming that we're competent and other folks out there that do what we do are competent, one of the things that differentiates us is this framework of stewardship that we try to cultivate.

00:09:27.466 --> 00:09:27.586
Okay.

00:09:28.096 --> 00:09:29.895
So I think, you know, we get that.

00:09:30.610 --> 00:09:43.240
Personally, I get that theologically, but I think it's a universal principle and the lens that we tend to view money with and really anything we've been blessed with, including our time and our talent, is that we should look at that as through a stewardship framework.

00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:43.301
Yeah.

00:09:43.655 --> 00:09:43.946
Yeah.

00:09:43.951 --> 00:09:45.610
So, you know, well, and I've always used

00:09:45.610 --> 00:09:47.171
that exactly in business.

00:09:47.230 --> 00:09:51.551
Like first and foremost as a business owner, you're a steward for your business.

00:09:51.556 --> 00:09:51.785
Mm-hmm.

00:09:51.865 --> 00:09:59.500
Whether you're coming from a faith background or not, you, you might wanna pay your people the most in the industry, but if you're not mm-hmm.

00:10:00.191 --> 00:10:03.880
Efficiently delivering your services to your clients enough yet mm-hmm.

00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:08.471
You might not be able to and still have a business, you know, you don't have to be a steward over that business.

00:10:08.620 --> 00:10:09.160
Yeah.

00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:09.730
Yep.

00:10:09.880 --> 00:10:10.541
Absolutely.

00:10:10.541 --> 00:10:14.650
And I mean, I think, um, there's, there's layers to that, onion.

00:10:14.650 --> 00:10:20.530
So I think most people, if they work with a financial advisor or someone in the wealth management industry.

00:10:20.956 --> 00:10:24.735
They're used to having the context, the conversation around financial provision.

00:10:24.796 --> 00:10:26.296
You know, Hey, how much is enough?

00:10:26.716 --> 00:10:28.816
Run money, car analysis, whatever that is.

00:10:28.816 --> 00:10:28.936
Right.

00:10:28.995 --> 00:10:31.696
Well, and plus the, the life insurance side.

00:10:31.696 --> 00:10:32.985
The disability side, right.

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That's all that stuff.

00:10:33.586 --> 00:10:33.645
Yeah.

00:10:33.645 --> 00:10:34.755
Thrivent's roots are there.

00:10:34.785 --> 00:10:34.966
Yeah.

00:10:34.966 --> 00:10:39.375
Well, and even, even that, even those products are in some way framed around that context, right?

00:10:39.375 --> 00:10:43.966
Like one of the benefits of insurance in theory is that it's self completing.

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So if you take a high severity, low probability event, like a 30-year-old who's healthy passing away before 65, they might purchase something like term life insurance to offset that risk where there's a certain amount of money provided for them paying a, a insurance premium in the event that that happens.

00:11:01.306 --> 00:11:11.355
So that's a very common lens for anyone in our industry to talk through, and that's, that's, you should expect competency in that area and demand it, frankly, with the way the marketplace is.

00:11:11.355 --> 00:11:13.485
But then there's other layers to that, which is.

00:11:13.846 --> 00:11:17.025
We all know someone that's got more than enough money but isn't happy.

00:11:17.086 --> 00:11:18.946
So there's a contentment lens to this.

00:11:19.245 --> 00:11:21.615
And you could apply that even outside of money, right?

00:11:21.615 --> 00:11:21.676
Yeah.

00:11:21.706 --> 00:11:23.535
I mean it's, um, it's a, me Rogan talks

00:11:23.535 --> 00:11:26.686
about that, like how billionaires are like the most miserable people he knows.

00:11:26.716 --> 00:11:27.076
Yeah.

00:11:27.076 --> 00:11:52.755
I think you can have these, uh, subconscious or even conscious scripts that run in our head that work really well as software within a certain context to achieve a certain amount of, we'll call it chips on the table if, you know, money is that, and I don't mean to downplay for folks that don't have enough money, whatever that means for them, but there, there is the reality that in our human experience, most people, if you ask them how much is enough, the answer is always a little bit more.

00:11:53.416 --> 00:11:53.775
Yeah.

00:11:54.015 --> 00:11:55.155
No matter who you are, right?

00:11:55.155 --> 00:11:55.166
Yeah.

00:11:55.166 --> 00:11:55.216
Yeah.

00:11:55.216 --> 00:12:05.265
And so our clients who we work with, um, a lot of them are wise enough to know that that exists or they wanna work with someone that understands that that tension on the heart mass side.

00:12:05.535 --> 00:12:07.275
And we balance that by per, you know.

00:12:07.650 --> 00:12:16.260
Yes, considering provision, but contentment and also enjoyment and trying to blend that conversation together in a way that creates clarity and confidence on the decisions they need to make financially.

00:12:16.530 --> 00:12:22.230
And then we partner with them to implement that where it makes sense and help them work with other professionals where they need to as well.

00:12:23.071 --> 00:12:28.260
And a lot of business owners candidly, in this community, which is how we cross paths frequently aside.

00:12:28.260 --> 00:12:28.471
Yeah, for sure.

00:12:28.471 --> 00:12:29.791
From our personal relationship,

00:12:29.821 --> 00:12:30.301
of course.

00:12:30.301 --> 00:12:30.660
Yeah.

00:12:30.750 --> 00:12:39.571
Well, and you've been through quite a number now, really a fairly complex sale and investing kind of transactions.

00:12:39.660 --> 00:12:39.811
Mm-hmm.

00:12:40.171 --> 00:12:47.370
Um, what, I guess are there some common denominators and why people choose you in those kind of situations?

00:12:47.701 --> 00:12:52.535
'cause the crazy thing is, compared to other financial services people, like mm-hmm.

00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:59.551
You may be directing 20, 30, 40% of their wealth into not investments with me.

00:12:59.610 --> 00:13:00.000
Mm-hmm.

00:13:00.006 --> 00:13:00.096
Mm-hmm.

00:13:00.451 --> 00:13:02.341
As part of the overall package.

00:13:02.341 --> 00:13:02.431
Mm-hmm.

00:13:02.671 --> 00:13:02.681
Which.

00:13:03.735 --> 00:13:07.066
Most, I mean, this is kind of weird to say, but most financial planners don't do that.

00:13:07.066 --> 00:13:07.755
They're like, blah, blah.

00:13:07.875 --> 00:13:08.321
You know what I mean?

00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:08.600
Yeah.

00:13:08.711 --> 00:13:09.000
They

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.360
wanna, yeah.

00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:10.125
I don't get paid on that.

00:13:10.130 --> 00:13:10.600
How would I do that?

00:13:10.605 --> 00:13:10.785
Right.

00:13:11.025 --> 00:13:12.015
Yeah, a little bit.

00:13:12.436 --> 00:13:26.355
Well, I, I do think that there's a certain element of trust that is established with that, where, you know, um, in the disclosures earlier that the term, you know, dedicated planning, really what that means is someone's paying us a fee just for our advice.

00:13:26.355 --> 00:13:34.186
So when we work with clients in that capacity, it's really helpful for us to essentially design someone's, you know, be their financial architect.

00:13:34.605 --> 00:13:40.520
And like with business owners, you know, walking through that transaction, it's, it's common for a lot of business owners to own their own real estate.

00:13:41.056 --> 00:13:43.546
You know, there can be tax benefits associated with that.

00:13:43.546 --> 00:13:44.056
They've got a.

00:13:44.475 --> 00:13:46.245
They've gotta rent it anyways.

00:13:46.245 --> 00:13:50.716
You know, if you're a steel manufacturer or whatever, you've gotta have some amount of industrial space, right?

00:13:50.956 --> 00:14:00.076
And so between that and some of the, you know, tax advantages with that, you know, being able to finance it, use it to secure the business, et cetera, um, it's, it's quite app.

00:14:00.255 --> 00:14:04.216
It's very appealing to them to own, even just for the control sake if the numbers weren't appealing.

00:14:04.216 --> 00:14:05.176
And so that's helpful.

00:14:05.475 --> 00:14:18.735
But also, if they are in the process of transitioning outta the business and they're selling the business to a buyer that intends to, you know, continue to rent that, they'll oftentimes build that into the transaction itself where they say, Hey, you know, we're gonna sign a five year lease.

00:14:18.735 --> 00:14:20.235
And that's really great.

00:14:20.235 --> 00:14:24.105
At a lot of times it's very mathematically compelling.

00:14:24.166 --> 00:14:27.316
Uh, it's, it just makes sense to do that.

00:14:27.316 --> 00:14:30.765
And that generates a really healthy amount of income for the business owner.

00:14:30.765 --> 00:14:41.086
And so I think just by default and working with clientele that have, you know, more wealth than the average person, you're gonna, you're gonna come across things that are maybe nontraditional and, you know, some.

00:14:41.640 --> 00:14:52.890
There, there are plenty of times, um, especially in Northern Colorado where we'll run, you know, we will look at someone, say resident their re their rental, you know, and they'll be like, oh, okay, this is, this is printing off, you know, great money.

00:14:52.890 --> 00:14:56.760
It's such a good investment and they can't even tell you what the investment rate or return is on, right?

00:14:57.390 --> 00:15:05.370
And so sometimes it actually doesn't make sense, but we're willing to look at it and we have a reputation of being honest with people and even helping them understand how we came to the conclusion.

00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:17.850
'cause coming back to that, you know, principle of stewardship, I, I believe that it's really a moral obligation for people to be responsible for what they've been blessed with and, and try to, you know, time, talent and, you know, financial resource.

00:15:17.850 --> 00:15:19.441
And so, um.

00:15:19.816 --> 00:15:27.225
You know, they, I, I really want to empower them, you know, if they don't come to the same conclusion as we do with the, the appropriate understanding the facts.

00:15:27.225 --> 00:15:29.895
Either we misunderstood something or I haven't done a good enough job.

00:15:29.895 --> 00:15:29.985
Right.

00:15:29.985 --> 00:15:32.385
Our team hasn't good enough job giving'em the space to understand it.

00:15:32.686 --> 00:15:34.245
So we just take the time to do that.

00:15:34.245 --> 00:15:43.456
And, and the clients we work with have enough capacity where, you know, they are paying for that, but they, it just, the opportunity cost of not doing that is significant enough to warrant the time and, and the expertise.

00:15:43.666 --> 00:15:43.936
So

00:15:44.355 --> 00:15:47.025
were you like a psychology major or something?

00:15:47.176 --> 00:15:48.360
Yeah, so, I thought so.

00:15:48.586 --> 00:15:48.765
Yeah.

00:15:48.765 --> 00:15:49.801
Well, because like mm-hmm.

00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:58.936
And, and the reason I asked that question is I partly, I remembered it, but also more than that, I, it's like you can do whatever you wanna do in life.

00:15:59.176 --> 00:15:59.265
Mm-hmm.

00:15:59.566 --> 00:16:03.316
Or in retirement or in legacy or whatever.

00:16:03.316 --> 00:16:04.275
What do you wanna do?

00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:04.530
Mm-hmm.

00:16:04.610 --> 00:16:06.586
Like that question is the harder question.

00:16:06.586 --> 00:16:07.576
And so some.

00:16:08.296 --> 00:16:14.566
That has to be a big part of your upfront process with people is like, what are the outcomes kind of that you're trying to achieve?

00:16:14.566 --> 00:16:17.176
What are your driving motivations, your principles, values?

00:16:17.176 --> 00:16:18.615
It's not just all about the math.

00:16:18.676 --> 00:16:19.155
Yeah.

00:16:19.155 --> 00:16:38.385
I I, there's an element of this where it, it does, I think there's a certain, so one of our favorite clients to work with, we had a charity event a couple weeks ago and it was so funny'cause, um, the way he, the way he introduced me to a friend of his, and he is like, oh, you got, you really gotta sit down with Clint was, you know, yeah.

00:16:38.385 --> 00:16:41.265
Most financial advisors, all they do is talk to you about how much money they can make.

00:16:41.265 --> 00:16:44.235
And here's Clint, like trying to help me understand the purpose of what we're doing.

00:16:44.265 --> 00:16:49.336
And, you know, and this client's very faithful, you know, he is like, you know, what's God's purpose for the money and the HeartMath?

00:16:49.336 --> 00:16:50.265
You know, he used HeartMath.

00:16:50.265 --> 00:16:55.696
And on one hand I was like, I think it's, it's, I I was like, man, I I, we, I know we do a good job.

00:16:55.701 --> 00:16:55.740
Flat.

00:16:55.745 --> 00:16:55.816
Flat.

00:16:55.816 --> 00:16:55.995
Flattered.

00:16:56.056 --> 00:16:57.076
I'm flattered, but it's like.

00:16:57.586 --> 00:16:59.686
And, and this, this client, and I'm really good at the regular vest.

00:16:59.895 --> 00:17:04.036
This client is the, is the type of client where their profile, they could literally work with anyone.

00:17:04.096 --> 00:17:08.895
I mean, they, uh, and we've competed with the vest to earn their trust and maintain it.

00:17:09.226 --> 00:17:15.526
And the differentiator is still the fact that we're really to walk side by side with them and the responsibility they have for stewardship.

00:17:15.526 --> 00:17:18.645
And I just thought it was great that he was literally using the term heart mass.

00:17:18.645 --> 00:17:20.925
So anyway, it's, it's that stuff.

00:17:20.986 --> 00:17:39.796
And, um, you know, we, I, there's just an element of that that's super important because when you go through these major, what I've come to realize is that part of the value on top of all the competence and the products and the techniques and also other stuff, people like to spend, they like to call us in their best and their worst moments.

00:17:40.096 --> 00:17:40.246
Hmm.

00:17:41.280 --> 00:17:50.371
You know, there's just something about that, meaning I think if you've ever been in a situation where you've realized some of your goals and you've called people and they've not been happy for you, that hurts.

00:17:50.611 --> 00:17:50.760
Hmm.

00:17:51.211 --> 00:17:59.131
And I think, you know, you've heard, you've heard people talk about, you know, if you really want the test of a friendship, it isn't just there in your worst moment, but like, how do they support you your best?

00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:03.990
And I don't, I don't think people, and banking, we used to say, uh, everybody's honest when times are good.

00:18:04.441 --> 00:18:06.181
Right, exactly.

00:18:06.181 --> 00:18:07.411
You know, and pays their loans back.

00:18:07.441 --> 00:18:07.891
Yeah.

00:18:07.891 --> 00:18:10.921
And so, you know, but it takes the real character to make it

00:18:10.921 --> 00:18:12.840
work and figure out Yeah, absolutely.

00:18:12.840 --> 00:18:19.800
You know, and, um, there's a, a little different, but, well, I mean, it's, the principle's the same, which is like, that is really the core of relationship.

00:18:19.800 --> 00:18:27.931
And, and money's one of those things that, you know, um, like let's just say, let's just say you're 45 years old.

00:18:27.931 --> 00:18:30.240
You sell your company, you get a large check, right?

00:18:30.691 --> 00:18:33.871
Well, for just ease of example, you get a hundred million dollar check, right?

00:18:33.871 --> 00:18:34.891
So the mass easy, right.

00:18:35.236 --> 00:18:38.296
You objectively do not need to work anymore.

00:18:38.385 --> 00:18:38.566
Sure.

00:18:38.566 --> 00:18:39.586
For most people anyway.

00:18:39.615 --> 00:18:39.705
Sure.

00:18:39.705 --> 00:18:40.066
Right.

00:18:40.546 --> 00:18:41.806
Uh, and although you could

00:18:41.806 --> 00:18:43.155
be a facilitator for Loco things

00:18:43.155 --> 00:18:43.306
Yeah.

00:18:43.306 --> 00:18:43.605
You would.

00:18:43.635 --> 00:18:44.026
We would.

00:18:44.086 --> 00:18:45.586
I would love, I would love that.

00:18:45.590 --> 00:18:46.066
We could talk about it.

00:18:46.096 --> 00:18:46.395
Yeah.

00:18:46.395 --> 00:18:46.665
Yeah.

00:18:46.665 --> 00:18:49.695
We love our, our next level and Loco community.

00:18:50.056 --> 00:18:50.415
Keep going.

00:18:50.536 --> 00:18:56.056
Um, but with that, you know, like if you think about like you still have all this time.

00:18:56.461 --> 00:18:58.560
And all this talent that you've been blessed with, hopefully.

00:18:58.560 --> 00:18:58.681
Mm-hmm.

00:18:58.800 --> 00:18:59.191
Right?

00:18:59.611 --> 00:19:01.050
There's no like terminal illness.

00:19:01.050 --> 00:19:02.250
And so what are you gonna do with that?

00:19:02.250 --> 00:19:02.310
Yeah.

00:19:02.310 --> 00:19:05.881
Well, how do I like to spend my time and enjoy it most?

00:19:05.881 --> 00:19:09.510
Well, because I am the dad of two girls, you know, I like to be a father.

00:19:09.510 --> 00:19:10.861
There's that element, right?

00:19:11.191 --> 00:19:13.651
I have friendships, I have my, you know, my wife or family.

00:19:13.651 --> 00:19:14.006
Maybe I could be a

00:19:14.006 --> 00:19:15.631
soccer coach even for one of those girls.

00:19:15.631 --> 00:19:16.711
'cause I'm not terrible at it.

00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:17.040
Yeah,

00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:17.310
right.

00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:17.941
Exactly.

00:19:17.941 --> 00:19:19.621
All those things, right?

00:19:19.681 --> 00:19:25.441
And none of that necessarily changes in the way that you'd expect when you get a hundred million dollars paycheck.

00:19:25.441 --> 00:19:25.770
Right?

00:19:26.131 --> 00:19:28.711
But what's weird is like, okay, so now you don't have to work.

00:19:28.891 --> 00:19:30.480
So what are you gonna do if you don't want to?

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:35.806
So now you've got 40 hours a week, but all your closest friends, your kids are in school during that period of time, right?

00:19:35.806 --> 00:19:36.780
So we have two girlfriends at

00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:37.320
least, right?

00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:37.770
Yeah.

00:19:38.340 --> 00:19:45.090
Despite the fact of having a wife, actually, you know, it's pretty, I'm sorry, I'm teasing a little bit, but like that's what, like the Devil Idle hands.

00:19:45.090 --> 00:19:46.351
Oh, the devil's playground.

00:19:46.351 --> 00:19:46.740
There's.

00:19:47.115 --> 00:19:49.681
You know, um, especially when you got a hundred mil at the bank.

00:19:50.056 --> 00:19:51.375
I think, I think, sorry.

00:19:51.645 --> 00:19:52.161
Well, this, it's a little

00:19:52.161 --> 00:19:52.635
rude, but

00:19:52.726 --> 00:19:53.086
No, no.

00:19:53.086 --> 00:20:02.385
I mean, I think, and this is, um, you know, I was actually talking with a team member of ours today about this because one of the things that I'm, so, I love working with our clients.

00:20:02.415 --> 00:20:12.016
I mean, you, um, many of them have, have been blessed with just a lot, a lot of financial resource, and they're still really great people.

00:20:12.076 --> 00:20:12.165
Yeah.

00:20:12.556 --> 00:20:19.935
And that's not to say that if you don't make mistakes in life, like you were just alluding to, you know, I'd call girlfriends if you're married, mistake, you know, at a minimum.

00:20:20.326 --> 00:20:20.566
Yes.

00:20:20.596 --> 00:20:27.256
Um, but I, I just, they usually have the humility to, to.

00:20:28.036 --> 00:20:33.651
Lean on people that can be coaches and stewards their trust to help them avoid the opportunity costs of those stake.

00:20:33.651 --> 00:20:34.181
That's part of how

00:20:34.181 --> 00:20:37.365
they're finding you and an elsewise network

00:20:37.726 --> 00:20:38.175
somehow.

00:20:38.266 --> 00:20:51.855
Yeah, and it like when you work with me, like, yes, you got our team and stuff, but because like brings like, like there's a lot of other people that we can resource you wanna appropriately or introduce you to et cetera, where there's just, in addition to all this stuff, technical competency, there's good character.

00:20:51.855 --> 00:21:01.756
So you end up, when you go through these life transitions, you just have a community of people around you all within the financial context and beyond that really just helps, helps manifest that.

00:21:01.756 --> 00:21:07.996
And I, as much as I'd love to say, you know, hey, you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, I don't think anyone does anything alone.

00:21:08.086 --> 00:21:14.506
Um, you know, even when you feel like you're completely in isolation, in my opinion, you're standing on God shoulders even if you don't realize it.

00:21:14.955 --> 00:21:20.596
So, um, anyway, I, I just, I feel super grateful that we're in a position to do that and I love our clients.

00:21:21.556 --> 00:21:21.675
Yeah.

00:21:21.675 --> 00:21:23.625
And you serve a, a whole bunch of kind of.

00:21:24.361 --> 00:21:26.401
Regular people like me.

00:21:26.550 --> 00:21:26.790
I do.

00:21:26.790 --> 00:21:26.881
Yeah.

00:21:27.121 --> 00:21:34.141
That, uh, you know, uh, yeah, you haven't made your a hundred million dollars yet, but when you scale this loco think tank thing, we'll see.

00:21:34.141 --> 00:21:34.621
We'll see.

00:21:34.621 --> 00:21:34.770
I'm

00:21:34.770 --> 00:21:36.121
not, uh, yeah.

00:21:36.421 --> 00:21:38.070
When Ben scales it, maybe I'll Right.

00:21:38.671 --> 00:21:40.020
Transfer to him and let him grow it.

00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:40.681
I, yeah.

00:21:40.711 --> 00:21:46.861
Um, no, no, we should, but I enjoy what we do and I think we're, and we'll scale some, but I'm never gonna have a hundred million at the pace I'm going.

00:21:47.131 --> 00:21:51.780
Yeah, no, I didn't, I didn't mean to imply that we just work with people like that or et cetera, so.

00:21:51.901 --> 00:21:52.201
Yeah.

00:21:52.441 --> 00:21:52.681
Yeah.

00:21:53.070 --> 00:22:00.451
Well, um, I wanna talk to a little bit about like, what moved you into this industry?

00:22:01.201 --> 00:22:05.851
Um, you, you said you were with a health program, Cigna.

00:22:06.090 --> 00:22:06.181
Mm-hmm.

00:22:06.421 --> 00:22:17.490
Like selling wholesale health and then like, did you leave kind of a guaranteed income job situation to become a minimally guaranteed income situation?

00:22:17.490 --> 00:22:18.240
Investment, dude.

00:22:18.391 --> 00:22:18.451
Yeah.

00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:19.891
Well, it's, oh man.

00:22:20.296 --> 00:22:21.766
You, you ask great questions.

00:22:21.766 --> 00:22:27.675
And then what I love about our conversations is I can take it like 10 layers deep and like you'll ride with me.

00:22:27.675 --> 00:22:34.576
So, um, you know, I, I turned, you know, I, I, I'm in a new decade in my life.

00:22:34.635 --> 00:22:43.155
I turned 40 last year, and, um, there was a lot of life catalyst that was thrown at me, uh, some of which we've talked about at least high level.

00:22:43.155 --> 00:23:00.526
And what I've come to conclude is that some of the deepest challenges or deepest suffering, galvanize, like if you, if, if, if you're willing to partner with God in that process, or people around you or some combination thereof, there's just some incredible transformation that can occur.

00:23:00.586 --> 00:23:10.726
And oftentimes, you know, I'm fortunate that at least for arcs of my life, I've been able to see in hindsight the path that God put before me, the suffering that I experienced.

00:23:11.266 --> 00:23:13.155
You know, some voluntary, some involuntary.

00:23:13.155 --> 00:23:13.215
Yeah.

00:23:13.215 --> 00:23:19.695
You find the silver lining and the way that, that suffering has been able to be transformed in a way that helps other people.

00:23:19.695 --> 00:23:22.875
So the question you asked was, why do I do what I do?

00:23:22.875 --> 00:23:25.726
Or how did I get there when my, when I was young?

00:23:27.135 --> 00:23:28.036
Still young or young?

00:23:28.036 --> 00:23:28.155
Yeah.

00:23:28.365 --> 00:23:29.895
It depends on perspective.

00:23:29.925 --> 00:23:30.105
Young.

00:23:30.105 --> 00:23:30.226
Yeah.

00:23:30.226 --> 00:23:30.645
Actually

00:23:30.645 --> 00:23:30.915
young.

00:23:31.066 --> 00:23:31.635
I still feel

00:23:31.635 --> 00:23:31.905
young,

00:23:31.905 --> 00:23:32.715
but I'm 51

00:23:32.715 --> 00:23:32.806
young.

00:23:32.810 --> 00:23:33.121
Right,

00:23:33.375 --> 00:23:34.215
right, exactly.

00:23:34.215 --> 00:23:35.385
Congrats for only being 40.

00:23:35.385 --> 00:23:35.625
Yeah,

00:23:35.625 --> 00:23:36.346
thanks brother.

00:23:36.435 --> 00:23:39.675
Um, you know, my dad passed away when, as a teenager.

00:23:39.976 --> 00:23:45.945
And you know, at the time, that was just the deepest loss I could have ever imagined.

00:23:46.006 --> 00:23:56.806
And, you know, on top of that, there was, you know, my parents had recently gotten a divorce and I, you know, there's the high school angst and sort of this parental rebellion that occurs and all this layer on top of that.

00:23:57.016 --> 00:24:07.516
But one of the things that I experienced as part of that, which was, which, uh, deep in the suffering we were going through is, you know, I come from very humble beginnings in the sense that I grew up in rural America.

00:24:07.516 --> 00:24:09.675
You know, I grew up in Wyoming, literally in a log cabin.

00:24:10.036 --> 00:24:12.766
You know, not far from here about, you know, 45 Happy Jack

00:24:12.945 --> 00:24:13.336
resident.

00:24:13.516 --> 00:24:13.875
Yeah.

00:24:13.875 --> 00:24:15.195
Off Happy Jack Road.

00:24:15.226 --> 00:24:21.195
And uh, you know, in that, in those communities your neighbors become your family, right?

00:24:21.195 --> 00:24:22.875
We didn't have any extended family nearby.

00:24:22.875 --> 00:24:35.445
Both my parents had extended family elsewhere and when my dad passed away, I remember, um, I wasn't sure that we ended up having to sell the house that he was living in'cause there wasn't enough financial resource to make it around.

00:24:35.445 --> 00:24:38.986
There wasn't life insurance or there was there Tiny, there was two times his.

00:24:39.330 --> 00:24:41.010
Teacher's salary and life insurance.

00:24:41.010 --> 00:24:42.361
Oh, so there's a little bit.

00:24:42.421 --> 00:24:42.721
Yeah.

00:24:42.871 --> 00:24:43.471
Um, but it

00:24:43.471 --> 00:24:44.070
wasn't, but it didn't

00:24:44.070 --> 00:24:45.421
replace the absence of his income.

00:24:45.421 --> 00:24:45.510
Oh no.

00:24:45.510 --> 00:24:45.661
Yeah.

00:24:45.661 --> 00:24:48.451
And he just had like his teacher's pension, which also wasn't a lot.

00:24:48.451 --> 00:24:50.580
And my mom at the time was an office.

00:24:50.641 --> 00:24:52.980
She had been an office manager at a dental practice.

00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:56.191
So there just, it was a very financially hard time.

00:24:56.191 --> 00:25:03.901
But before we realized that we were gonna have to go through this really, this, you know, financial challenge and, you know, kudos to my mom and God bless her.

00:25:03.931 --> 00:25:10.830
'cause I can only imagine what that would feel like now as a parent, I remember my neighbors being like, Hey, you know, your dad was a really smart guy, blah, blah, blah.

00:25:10.830 --> 00:25:14.101
He, there's this type of insurance that pays off your bills when you pass away.

00:25:14.101 --> 00:25:15.601
I'm sure he had that really smart guy.

00:25:16.080 --> 00:25:18.000
He, and, you know, he didn't have enough life insurance.

00:25:18.181 --> 00:25:18.540
Right.

00:25:18.721 --> 00:25:18.810
Sure.

00:25:18.961 --> 00:25:21.671
And, um, it's amazing the amount of people.

00:25:21.776 --> 00:25:22.105
It's funny

00:25:22.105 --> 00:25:22.800
how you remember that

00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:24.546
particular line almost.

00:25:24.846 --> 00:25:25.066
Yes.

00:25:25.066 --> 00:25:30.840
And I remember the day I realized it when I was sitting on the couch in our living room, in the house that I knew we were gonna have to sell.

00:25:30.871 --> 00:25:32.161
And this is, you know, at a teenager.

00:25:33.270 --> 00:25:34.770
15 plus or minus 15.

00:25:34.770 --> 00:25:34.800
Okay.

00:25:34.800 --> 00:25:34.861
Yeah.

00:25:34.861 --> 00:25:35.101
Alright.

00:25:35.131 --> 00:25:37.740
So smart enough to know shit's going down.

00:25:37.800 --> 00:25:41.490
And I remember, I remember one of my early money memories, this is one of them.

00:25:41.580 --> 00:25:43.530
I will never be in this situation.

00:25:43.560 --> 00:25:46.711
Like, I don't care how hard I have to work, I will never be in this situation.

00:25:46.770 --> 00:25:54.810
And if you ask my mom why they didn't do some of these things that, you know, a, a person in my understanding be like, Hey, this is kind of basic stuff.

00:25:55.111 --> 00:25:57.810
What she will tell you is, Hey, no one ever talked to us about her.

00:25:57.810 --> 00:25:59.611
No one they, no, no one that we trusted.

00:26:00.090 --> 00:26:03.961
So, you know, my dad was a teacher, tried to operate with the heart of a teacher on or him that way.

00:26:03.961 --> 00:26:05.941
But that's a core reason as to why.

00:26:05.941 --> 00:26:08.040
And I think in the last episode can go back and reference that.

00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:12.990
I think we talked about this, but, you know, I thought I was gonna work with a lot of people like my dad and my mom growing up.

00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:14.580
Like that's kind of who I started off to serve.

00:26:15.060 --> 00:26:20.580
And one of the challenges with that was those people with no-show appointments and all those other kind of things and just didn't respect my time.

00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:22.800
You know, here I'm wanting to have deep on conversations and yet.

00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:27.931
I, you know, in my first year in the industry, I drove down to Denver, bought a piece of furniture off Craigslist.

00:26:27.931 --> 00:26:33.060
Didn't realize that the furniture I was buying was some, someone in the Cherry Creek neighborhood, which is a pretty wealthy neighborhood in Denver.

00:26:33.121 --> 00:26:33.361
Right.

00:26:33.451 --> 00:26:36.631
And before I leave this guy's like handing me my card being like, Hey, we gotta get together.

00:26:36.631 --> 00:26:37.621
I really wanna talk with you.

00:26:38.131 --> 00:26:39.391
It was just the weirdest thing.

00:26:39.451 --> 00:26:40.141
Interesting.

00:26:40.230 --> 00:26:40.560
Yeah.

00:26:40.560 --> 00:26:44.461
And so in a lot of ways, the, the depth of Catalyst, I don't think

00:26:44.461 --> 00:26:45.601
we talked about that story.

00:26:45.601 --> 00:26:47.101
Uh, do you wanna talk about that story?

00:26:47.105 --> 00:26:47.215
Yeah.

00:26:47.215 --> 00:26:47.935
I mean it while we're here.

00:26:48.090 --> 00:26:48.540
Yeah, sure.

00:26:48.540 --> 00:26:50.520
Because that seems like a God moment'cause Absolutely.

00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:50.611
Yes.

00:26:50.611 --> 00:26:54.840
I remember joining Thrivent, you know, I've been a successful banker and this and that.

00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:54.931
Mm-hmm.

00:26:55.770 --> 00:26:58.651
Uh, tried my hand, the food trucking thing and whatever.

00:26:58.651 --> 00:27:09.215
And like I did okay the first year, not, but I didn't have like, just oopsies fell into a big investment account mm-hmm.

00:27:09.296 --> 00:27:09.736
Opportunity.

00:27:09.736 --> 00:27:09.746
Mm-hmm.

00:27:10.201 --> 00:27:13.111
Um, and this is how many months into your, mm,

00:27:13.921 --> 00:27:14.701
let me think about this.

00:27:14.701 --> 00:27:15.510
When I met them.

00:27:16.336 --> 00:27:18.496
Uh, like maybe nine months in.

00:27:18.615 --> 00:27:18.855
Okay.

00:27:19.006 --> 00:27:19.425
So,

00:27:20.056 --> 00:27:24.151
yeah,'cause well I was in it for about 24 months and I didn't have anything like that still happen, so Yeah.

00:27:24.151 --> 00:27:26.030
I mean it let's in the story it, well, so let's end the story.

00:27:26.086 --> 00:27:26.326
Yeah.

00:27:26.326 --> 00:27:31.096
I, um, it was like my one time of golfing per year.

00:27:31.096 --> 00:27:32.355
I'd golf that morning.

00:27:32.355 --> 00:27:33.645
I was like covered in sweat.

00:27:33.645 --> 00:27:35.145
I was like, you know, and I let them know.

00:27:35.655 --> 00:27:38.506
Uh, at the time I really liked mid-century modern furniture.

00:27:38.506 --> 00:27:40.786
Still do, but like, I would scour Craigslist.

00:27:40.786 --> 00:27:44.925
I think now people hang out in Facebook marketplace, but I'm like, oh, here's this.

00:27:44.986 --> 00:27:46.455
I can, I still even know the chase.

00:27:46.455 --> 00:27:51.556
It was a lake, I think it's Lake Colby say how you pronounce it, but it was this mid-century modern furniture piece.

00:27:52.471 --> 00:27:58.770
Uh, that I'd really liked and I was like, oh, I'm gonna drive down and pick it up, you know, relatively inexpensively compared to what'd be new.

00:27:58.891 --> 00:27:59.221
Sure.

00:27:59.340 --> 00:28:01.441
And so I drove down there and picked it up and I'm like, Dr.

00:28:01.441 --> 00:28:03.780
I'm like, oh man, I, I feel kind of disheveled.

00:28:03.780 --> 00:28:07.800
I was like, like I said, I was covered in sunscreen and grass and that kind of stuff.

00:28:07.800 --> 00:28:22.980
And what ended up happening was the reason why this chase was being sold was because this gentleman's mom had just lost her, uh, husband, um, his, uh, not his father by blood, but you know, for all intents and purposes.

00:28:23.040 --> 00:28:23.191
Yeah.

00:28:23.191 --> 00:28:23.820
His father.

00:28:23.941 --> 00:28:24.181
Yeah.

00:28:24.421 --> 00:28:38.131
And he, we talked for like 45 minutes about a number of things, but he was really upset that when his mom's, there was just a lot of things to demonstrate that he didn't think his mom was being taken care of the right way.

00:28:39.165 --> 00:28:46.875
So, uh, by this person, they, his mom was actually like, close to relationally, but he's just like, you know, I don't feel like they're doing a good enough job.

00:28:47.266 --> 00:28:49.665
And to be honest, I think they did an okay job.

00:28:49.665 --> 00:28:57.615
Like, it wasn't like there's any unethical things or whatever, but just relationally, they really sucked at listening and they weren't doing what she wanted or what she needed.

00:28:57.885 --> 00:29:09.645
They were letting the math proceed That, you know, so a hypothetical example without disclosing any of her detail is, let's just say you have a conservative investor that even though they've got the mathematical capacity to be aggressive Sure.

00:29:09.826 --> 00:29:12.766
Like there's a balance of that where it's like, it's really their choice.

00:29:12.766 --> 00:29:17.145
Choice and, and if there's no downside to them being more conservative, okay, great.

00:29:17.205 --> 00:29:17.566
Right.

00:29:17.655 --> 00:29:19.780
Um, you know, and, and just making sure, you know Right.

00:29:19.786 --> 00:29:19.905
If I

00:29:19.905 --> 00:29:23.625
want to have 3 million NCDs that you don't earn any commission on Sure.

00:29:23.625 --> 00:29:27.766
And I've got a million in an investment account that you get commission on, you kind of be satisfied with that.

00:29:27.796 --> 00:29:28.096
Yeah.

00:29:28.096 --> 00:29:28.756
And so what was

00:29:28.756 --> 00:29:30.855
happening was you had this advisor that.

00:29:31.125 --> 00:29:37.635
Had, you know, decent investment strategy and whatever, um, you know, basically pushing, pushing, pushing his risk tolerance onto her.

00:29:37.665 --> 00:29:37.965
Yeah.

00:29:38.115 --> 00:29:42.226
And, um, all we did was, to be honest, all I did was listen.

00:29:42.496 --> 00:29:53.895
And then I helped them feel, listened to, and then I was like, well, I'm hearing what you guys have or these goals and you want to accomplish it with this framework, so maybe it would make sense for us to spend time understanding that.

00:29:53.895 --> 00:29:57.405
And he's like, begging me for a meeting and I'm like, this is the strangest thing ever.

00:29:57.526 --> 00:30:02.506
Like, I'm trying to call some of these people that look like me growing up and they like, don't have the time of day.

00:30:02.506 --> 00:30:05.836
They're overwhelmed, they're stressed, they don't wanna talk about their finances, right.

00:30:05.836 --> 00:30:07.395
They no show with you guy, me for a meeting.

00:30:07.730 --> 00:30:12.346
And he, and, and he's got the best assets, like, well, and here, and, well, here's the funny thing about this.

00:30:12.375 --> 00:30:18.945
So, at the time I didn't have like an electronic calendar to reference my calendar, otherwise I would've booked it right there and then, right.

00:30:19.215 --> 00:30:24.286
But instead I was like, Hey, you know, I don't have my calendar with me, but I'm probably booked two or three weeks out.

00:30:24.286 --> 00:30:25.215
And I said that because.

00:30:25.816 --> 00:30:28.601
I didn't want him, I didn't want to commit to an appointment to think work in demand.

00:30:28.726 --> 00:30:28.846
Yeah.

00:30:28.846 --> 00:30:30.076
Well, no, I, not even that.

00:30:30.076 --> 00:30:31.786
I wish I was smart enough to do that Instead.

00:30:31.786 --> 00:30:31.935
What?

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:37.965
I, I said that,'cause I'm like, well, I know I don't have anything booked two to three weeks out because I didn't want accept a meeting.

00:30:38.236 --> 00:30:38.385
Right.

00:30:38.476 --> 00:30:39.766
And then have to rechange it.

00:30:39.766 --> 00:30:42.615
So I was like, yeah, I think this will work, but let me call you tomorrow to confirm.

00:30:43.096 --> 00:30:47.955
And he was, he, he was just like, no, you know, and he, he was like, we've got, you know,$7 million, all these kind of things.

00:30:47.955 --> 00:30:53.685
And I'm like, and I, I won't even say the person's name, but I was like, hypothetically, I just say his name was John.

00:30:53.685 --> 00:30:55.605
I was like, Hey John, I really do wanna help you.

00:30:55.605 --> 00:30:56.986
I'm not trying to like blow you off.

00:30:56.986 --> 00:30:58.996
I just, I genuinely wanna look on my calendar.

00:30:58.996 --> 00:31:00.496
Like, I promise you I'll call you back.

00:31:00.496 --> 00:31:01.455
Called him the next day.

00:31:02.086 --> 00:31:10.881
And it, it was the, it was the first of several signposts got along the way that maybe what he had intended me to do is slightly different from what I'd intended to do.

00:31:11.056 --> 00:31:11.746
To still bless.

00:31:11.986 --> 00:31:16.006
I think what happened is because of the, the wi, what I've since come to understand is.

00:31:16.351 --> 00:31:26.641
The suffering and life experience I had before that and this sort of deep emotional faith wisdom to the extent that there is, that I, I can somewhat bring that out in clients and help them.

00:31:26.760 --> 00:31:29.911
And I think there's a resonance there that people are attracted to.

00:31:30.300 --> 00:31:30.361
Yeah.

00:31:30.361 --> 00:31:34.111
And that would, that was only cultivated by some of the experience they've had with, you know.

00:31:34.441 --> 00:31:42.601
Well, and honestly, a lot of the most successful people that I've met, uh, got that way because they had to march through some stuff.

00:31:42.631 --> 00:31:42.750
Mm-hmm.

00:31:43.050 --> 00:31:48.871
You know, it's, uh, there's, there's a few folks that do get their wealth the old fashioned way.

00:31:48.871 --> 00:31:49.621
They inherit it.

00:31:49.711 --> 00:31:49.980
Mm-hmm.

00:31:50.310 --> 00:31:51.540
Not everybody can do that.

00:31:51.540 --> 00:31:52.411
Mm-hmm.

00:31:52.412 --> 00:31:56.461
But more of it's created than it is inherited still, thank God in our country.

00:31:56.760 --> 00:31:57.181
Amen.

00:31:57.211 --> 00:31:57.601
Yeah.

00:31:57.601 --> 00:32:09.000
And I think, um, God, I, there's so much on this topic because, you know, and I don't, I don't know if you want to go here yet or all during the podcast, but I, um, I've been thinking a lot about.

00:32:09.375 --> 00:32:12.796
What people want versus what they need in the arc of where we're at.

00:32:12.796 --> 00:32:12.826
Oh.

00:32:12.826 --> 00:32:13.036
Dump me

00:32:13.036 --> 00:32:13.786
some of your bourbon.

00:32:13.846 --> 00:32:15.915
I want to get onto this next, next one here.

00:32:16.185 --> 00:32:16.455
No.

00:32:16.455 --> 00:32:17.115
Oh, dump in.

00:32:17.115 --> 00:32:17.145
Okay.

00:32:17.175 --> 00:32:17.625
Dump in.

00:32:17.625 --> 00:32:17.836
Yeah.

00:32:17.865 --> 00:32:19.036
'cause I, I over poured you.

00:32:19.125 --> 00:32:19.486
Okay.

00:32:19.546 --> 00:32:19.996
Thank you.

00:32:20.086 --> 00:32:21.766
And you can pour that seed in the spirit here.

00:32:22.246 --> 00:32:22.605
Okay.

00:32:22.905 --> 00:32:23.205
Oh yeah.

00:32:23.205 --> 00:32:23.986
I'm, you're more it out.

00:32:24.060 --> 00:32:24.351
Okay.

00:32:24.435 --> 00:32:24.976
Swing it out.

00:32:24.976 --> 00:32:25.726
Swing it it out.

00:32:25.726 --> 00:32:26.115
All it out.

00:32:26.115 --> 00:32:27.945
We can keep talking while you're doing to everything.

00:32:27.976 --> 00:32:28.306
Okay.

00:32:28.365 --> 00:32:28.816
Check it out.

00:32:28.816 --> 00:32:29.536
It's, so, we're good.

00:32:29.655 --> 00:32:29.895
Alright.

00:32:29.895 --> 00:32:34.756
This video part will be, people will be rewinding this to see us, just to see the movement successfully doing this.

00:32:34.756 --> 00:32:34.875
Yes.

00:32:34.875 --> 00:32:35.236
Okay.

00:32:35.415 --> 00:32:36.256
Um, um,

00:32:36.375 --> 00:32:37.905
so I, I've been thinking about this a

00:32:37.905 --> 00:32:38.895
lot because.

00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:44.250
Um, and the reason I'm doing this,'cause Clint's going for margaritas after this.

00:32:44.371 --> 00:32:44.641
Yeah.

00:32:44.641 --> 00:32:46.441
And, uh, I'm doing fam Yeah, we,

00:32:46.441 --> 00:32:46.681
we do.

00:32:46.681 --> 00:32:48.691
I'm just a family dinner night on Friday nights.

00:32:48.691 --> 00:32:55.530
And so, um, usually that's having, you know, margarita happy hour chips and salsa'cause that's my wife's favorite kids, et cetera.

00:32:56.040 --> 00:32:59.881
Um, so I've been thinking a lot about, um.

00:32:59.976 --> 00:33:02.435
I'm taking it to the faith perspective.

00:33:02.465 --> 00:33:07.026
'cause my, my faith's been deep in over the last two years in ways that I just, it's hard to describe, but, Hmm.

00:33:07.776 --> 00:33:08.076
Whether

00:33:08.076 --> 00:33:09.185
you're, go ahead.

00:33:09.276 --> 00:33:15.695
I was gonna say we didn't really, we haven't really caught up on things because frankly, the last time we had a long conversation mm-hmm.

00:33:15.935 --> 00:33:17.705
Your faith was in a little wily spot.

00:33:17.736 --> 00:33:18.066
Yeah.

00:33:18.066 --> 00:33:18.246
Yeah.

00:33:18.246 --> 00:33:25.266
I mean, I was just, I was in the depths of a lot of pain and suffering and I wouldn't say it was so much like wiggly, it was just like, what is going on?

00:33:25.266 --> 00:33:25.566
Yeah.

00:33:25.776 --> 00:33:26.016
Not

00:33:26.016 --> 00:33:26.796
less wiggly, but

00:33:26.796 --> 00:33:27.546
less stable for

00:33:27.546 --> 00:33:27.816
sure.

00:33:27.846 --> 00:33:28.145
Yeah.

00:33:28.145 --> 00:33:28.326
Yeah.

00:33:28.326 --> 00:33:28.596
Yeah.

00:33:28.601 --> 00:33:29.705
I didn't, I was, I was not

00:33:29.705 --> 00:33:30.036
stable.

00:33:30.096 --> 00:33:30.185
Yes.

00:33:30.215 --> 00:33:33.246
Like I was, I was emotionally in a lot of, a lot of things, which why

00:33:33.306 --> 00:33:34.685
didn't wanna reschedule our podcast.

00:33:35.226 --> 00:33:35.796
Yes, sir.

00:33:36.215 --> 00:33:36.365
Got it.

00:33:36.371 --> 00:33:36.816
Which is okay.

00:33:36.996 --> 00:33:40.326
No, it's, yeah, I needed, I hunkered down, which there's another topic.

00:33:40.326 --> 00:33:49.776
It's like how when, when you go through a business crisis or a life crisis, like, man, it is so difficult to make friends when you need them.

00:33:50.105 --> 00:33:58.776
If I could give one piece of advice to the business owners out there, like a comment, not always, but a lot of times I see them pour all this time and energy into.

00:34:00.076 --> 00:34:08.565
People overvalue the amount that like financial resources will help you when they undervalue the power of relational resources when you go through a crisis.

00:34:08.925 --> 00:34:11.085
And I would say that's true with spiritual capital as well.

00:34:11.085 --> 00:34:11.476
Yeah.

00:34:11.686 --> 00:34:12.735
Like I just, yeah.

00:34:12.826 --> 00:34:13.215
Yeah.

00:34:13.275 --> 00:34:22.545
I'm so thankful that, like, I had high, especially during CID it got highlighted to me just, I was like, man, I really want to be more intentional about this.

00:34:22.545 --> 00:34:23.956
The same, the same.

00:34:24.106 --> 00:34:25.786
And so I'm just super thankful for that.

00:34:25.786 --> 00:34:38.326
But, um, this idea of who Jesus was and, um, what is so captivating even to people that are not believers, just the story of Jesus, let's pretend it didn't happen.

00:34:38.985 --> 00:34:40.516
Why is that so compelling?

00:34:40.695 --> 00:34:46.876
And I think the first thing that people are attracted to by the idea of God is this feeling of being unconditionally loved, right?

00:34:46.876 --> 00:34:46.965
Mm-hmm.

00:34:47.326 --> 00:34:52.965
And I think that that is a, is a deep kind of human need and searching, and people want that.

00:34:53.025 --> 00:34:56.295
And I, I think we all do want that to some level.

00:34:57.135 --> 00:34:59.536
Hopefully we get a glimpse of that from our parents, though.

00:34:59.536 --> 00:35:02.326
They'd be fallible if you have, but you know, you might not.

00:35:02.326 --> 00:35:02.596
Right?

00:35:02.596 --> 00:35:05.175
Like people have mixed family experiences.

00:35:05.175 --> 00:35:08.835
I have some family of origin stuff that's makes that more complex.

00:35:08.835 --> 00:35:11.025
But you know, the reality is hopefully you can glimpse that.

00:35:11.596 --> 00:35:16.936
Uh, but god, even if you're completely alone and have no healthy framework, does offer that in theory or in practice.

00:35:17.476 --> 00:35:21.945
And I think what people are most missing today isn't that feeling of unconditional love.

00:35:22.096 --> 00:35:23.056
I, I think that is.

00:35:23.505 --> 00:35:34.065
But what I think is so powerful about Jesus is that he was willing to maintain upward aim irrespective of his circumstances.

00:35:34.396 --> 00:35:34.635
Hmm.

00:35:35.175 --> 00:35:36.525
And he did so voluntarily.

00:35:37.641 --> 00:35:37.760
Hmm.

00:35:39.041 --> 00:35:39.331
Yeah.

00:35:39.331 --> 00:35:42.465
Like, and, and here's the, here's the thing that I think people are drawn to.

00:35:43.306 --> 00:35:49.846
They want to feel what it's like to feel so compelled about something that they'd be willing to do that.

00:35:49.876 --> 00:35:50.266
Yeah.

00:35:51.240 --> 00:35:51.420
Yeah.

00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:51.780
Yeah.

00:35:52.056 --> 00:35:56.371
Well that's why the hero story is like the story in a way, right?

00:35:56.820 --> 00:35:57.181
Yeah.

00:35:57.240 --> 00:35:57.871
Um,

00:35:58.050 --> 00:36:10.800
and I, and I think that as technology unfolds over the next decade, uh, in a world where things become, you know, more convenient, hopefully we have, you know, more abundance, right?

00:36:11.041 --> 00:36:11.340
Sure.

00:36:11.701 --> 00:36:18.451
Um, suffering, voluntary suffering, working out, you know, those kind of things.

00:36:18.451 --> 00:36:19.170
Hopefully they're good for you.

00:36:19.170 --> 00:36:19.981
Yeah, that's great.

00:36:20.371 --> 00:36:25.710
But like involuntary suffering through the catalyst of a relationship with a higher power.

00:36:26.101 --> 00:36:28.411
And or relationships with your fellow human beings.

00:36:28.411 --> 00:36:34.621
It's just, it is one of the best that I believe that it's, it's what we're all actually wanting more of.

00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:40.831
And I know that that seems maybe like a sadistic thing to state, but I think people really do that and they don't even know it.

00:36:40.891 --> 00:36:44.896
All good art comes out of that and all good music just about and stuff.

00:36:44.896 --> 00:36:45.175
Mm-hmm.

00:36:45.181 --> 00:36:49.530
And so if AI can fix all of our problems, then we're well and truly screwed.

00:36:49.951 --> 00:36:52.201
Well, it it, it's gonna magnify

00:36:52.201 --> 00:36:52.530
them.

00:36:52.771 --> 00:36:55.561
And so perhaps Well, I, I, yes and no.

00:36:55.561 --> 00:36:56.610
I think it's a catalyst.

00:36:56.610 --> 00:37:05.911
So, um, like the lack of problems will be a problem if we get, there's one of the things I was talking about a year ago is I was like, what happens when people start to like, fall in love with ais?

00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:06.300
Yeah.

00:37:06.481 --> 00:37:07.710
Like, they do what's happening?

00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:09.856
It is, it's, it's become more ladies especially.

00:37:10.681 --> 00:37:12.150
Well, so here's the thing, right?

00:37:12.150 --> 00:37:23.130
Like social media kind of highlighted this tendency, but I can basically go to the internet and, and get my opinion or my beliefs affirmed whether or not that's necessarily true, right?

00:37:23.251 --> 00:37:23.550
Yeah.

00:37:23.731 --> 00:37:25.621
And yet at the same time, like.

00:37:26.565 --> 00:37:27.916
Oh man, we're getting deep here.

00:37:27.916 --> 00:37:34.936
So if we think about the context of re let's talk romantic relationship, there's desire and then there's intimacy.

00:37:35.235 --> 00:37:35.626
Okay.

00:37:35.626 --> 00:37:35.715
Right.

00:37:36.315 --> 00:37:40.005
Desire is like projection based, persona based.

00:37:40.005 --> 00:37:42.646
It's it's surface level and it's, we all crave that.

00:37:43.215 --> 00:37:43.396
Right?

00:37:43.396 --> 00:37:55.275
And it's, and it's, we'll call it, uh, stable, meaning you kind of don't want to rock the boat, but intimacy, unconditional love is to share your woundedness, your fault, your fractures, and be loved anyways.

00:37:55.306 --> 00:37:55.695
Mm-hmm.

00:37:56.025 --> 00:37:58.425
And I think the paradox, the human experiences, we want both.

00:37:58.635 --> 00:37:58.996
Yeah.

00:37:59.056 --> 00:38:00.795
Now what do we see missing more in society?

00:38:00.795 --> 00:38:03.195
People feeling their desires or experiencing intimacy.

00:38:04.005 --> 00:38:04.516
Yeah.

00:38:05.025 --> 00:38:15.195
Everybody feels their desires and, and I think that's not to shift it back to, yeah, our shared experience with loco think tank, but that's an intimate place.

00:38:15.916 --> 00:38:16.606
Very much so.

00:38:16.876 --> 00:38:17.056
Oh my gosh.

00:38:17.056 --> 00:38:26.596
Whether it's with your whole chapter in that setting or whether it's even just with a close friend or two that you're sharing your heart with because you've been trained a little bit how to do that.

00:38:26.775 --> 00:38:27.135
Yeah.

00:38:27.135 --> 00:38:32.056
Well, and I am so thankful to you, Andrew, uh, shout out to Drew.

00:38:32.056 --> 00:38:37.425
He is not here, so our facilitator, super thankful to you because I didn't know.

00:38:39.601 --> 00:38:47.251
I've been a part of peer groups before, but I didn't, like, I knew how lonely it could feel to be a business owner in the successes and the failures.

00:38:47.251 --> 00:38:54.001
But the reality is, when you, this is why we also prefer to work in a team in our practice, but the, the wins feel sweeter and the failures suck less.

00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:59.010
And I, for a while, you were like, Hey, you should consider next level.

00:38:59.010 --> 00:38:59.971
Hey, you should consider next level.

00:38:59.971 --> 00:39:02.851
And I was like, I don't wanna let, I'm qualified, you know, imposter syndrome, whatever.

00:39:03.391 --> 00:39:15.150
And man, I just, uh, the, we do life together with these people and like some of them I've cultivated very deep friendships with and I'm super thankful for that.

00:39:15.425 --> 00:39:16.005
So thank you.

00:39:16.005 --> 00:39:16.710
That's awesome.

00:39:16.891 --> 00:39:17.311
Yeah.

00:39:17.311 --> 00:39:17.320
Yeah.

00:39:17.731 --> 00:39:18.181
Thank you.

00:39:18.481 --> 00:39:24.570
Well, and, and I, and I hope that even the notion of being a vulnerable being, yeah.

00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:27.601
It has been cultivated by that, right?

00:39:27.601 --> 00:39:27.871
Oh, a hundred

00:39:27.871 --> 00:39:28.320
percent.

00:39:28.351 --> 00:39:37.981
I mean, I, last year when I was going through some of the pain I was talking about, like, I didn't go in all the details, but there was a chapter update where I was like, Hey, this, this is a high level overview of what I'm going through.

00:39:37.981 --> 00:39:43.471
And I teared up, you know, and, and some of the people in the group that I was really close to teared up as well.

00:39:43.471 --> 00:39:47.221
And like, you know, it's not like these are these therapy groups, but the reality is.

00:39:47.655 --> 00:39:49.996
Here's what's strange about today's business owner environment.

00:39:50.476 --> 00:40:03.916
Um, you know, in the, in the last month, we, we were at a, a next, we were at a summit that you put together and a couple of the facilitators put together and one of the speakers talked about the Coldplay ceo, EO that was on Instagram around infidelity.

00:40:03.916 --> 00:40:05.085
HR gal too, right?

00:40:05.085 --> 00:40:05.896
And the HR gal.

00:40:05.896 --> 00:40:06.436
Yeah, exactly.

00:40:06.436 --> 00:40:07.576
Which, no, it's funny.

00:40:07.576 --> 00:40:08.565
No one really talks about her.

00:40:08.565 --> 00:40:08.835
Right.

00:40:08.835 --> 00:40:09.465
That's another thing.

00:40:09.465 --> 00:40:10.065
It's interesting.

00:40:10.065 --> 00:40:17.565
But, um, with the CEO, he's like, Hey, you know, the real reason why people were upset about this wasn't the infidelity, although I wish it was, you know, et cetera.

00:40:17.565 --> 00:40:20.056
He's like, but people don't seem to have much problem with, I think we should.

00:40:20.445 --> 00:40:25.096
It's actually the fact that they perceived that this business owner and sort of executive, and they were sort of breaking the rules.

00:40:25.246 --> 00:40:25.485
Yeah.

00:40:25.666 --> 00:40:27.030
And I think what's crazy about that.

00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:29.715
Well, for the, not for me, right, exactly.

00:40:29.715 --> 00:40:30.585
And is that true?

00:40:30.585 --> 00:40:31.365
Absolutely.

00:40:31.425 --> 00:40:35.985
You know, generationally, there's a lot of people our age and younger that have seen a lot of that.

00:40:36.190 --> 00:40:36.271
Hmm.

00:40:36.846 --> 00:40:41.826
I think in some ways we're seeing the end of that now, irrespective of politics.

00:40:41.826 --> 00:40:43.206
You've seen a lot of that brought to light.

00:40:43.686 --> 00:40:48.996
Um, and hopefully that's the sign of the potential to, to redo things or do things better.

00:40:49.416 --> 00:40:58.085
But there's a, there's a sentiment out there where, um, even if business owners are doing the right thing and they want to do their best, et cetera, they're making the right decision by their employees.

00:40:58.085 --> 00:40:59.585
They're still like this, Hey, they're there.

00:40:59.585 --> 00:41:00.365
There's reception.

00:41:00.365 --> 00:41:01.295
It's unhealthy and inaccurate.

00:41:01.385 --> 00:41:01.505
Oh dude,

00:41:01.565 --> 00:41:02.766
did you read my blog today?

00:41:02.885 --> 00:41:03.215
I did not.

00:41:03.215 --> 00:41:04.025
That came up this morning.

00:41:04.085 --> 00:41:04.385
Mm.

00:41:04.445 --> 00:41:16.536
So in the Edelman Trust Index, oh, um, 65%, uh, say that the wealthy selfishness is the source of a lot of society's problems.

00:41:16.565 --> 00:41:16.715
Mm-hmm.

00:41:17.045 --> 00:41:17.585
Globally.

00:41:17.646 --> 00:41:17.735
Mm-hmm.

00:41:18.306 --> 00:41:26.315
And 40% agree that violent activism is necessary to change the way our society is structured.

00:41:26.315 --> 00:41:30.215
And of those 53% of 18 to 35 year olds.

00:41:30.496 --> 00:41:30.826
Yep.

00:41:31.425 --> 00:41:33.496
So we gotta eat the rich dude.

00:41:33.556 --> 00:41:34.485
It's time.

00:41:34.815 --> 00:41:35.175
Yeah.

00:41:35.536 --> 00:41:36.826
So this is, even though they create all the

00:41:36.826 --> 00:41:40.186
jobs and stuff, well it's, I mean, some do, some don't.

00:41:40.186 --> 00:41:40.396
Right.

00:41:40.396 --> 00:41:40.635
Right.

00:41:40.641 --> 00:41:41.686
But, but here's the thing.

00:41:42.315 --> 00:41:46.036
Um, what I see that, and I really peel, peel the onion back.

00:41:46.065 --> 00:41:47.416
There's a lot of deep hurt there.

00:41:47.596 --> 00:41:49.186
There's a lot of broken trust there.

00:41:49.545 --> 00:41:50.746
And when you've experienced, well'cause they've been

00:41:50.746 --> 00:42:01.396
stealing from these kids to fund wars mostly there's, you know, robbing their money of its purchasing power to, so we can screw around in Afghanistan and Iraq.

00:42:02.806 --> 00:42:07.695
There's a lot of hurt and broken trust that's been experienced in so many contexts.

00:42:07.815 --> 00:42:20.565
And you know, another reason why I think that whether you have a faith belief or not an issue in our culture right now is people are defining themselves based off of their ideas and their ideology versus what virtues they aspire to reach for.

00:42:20.775 --> 00:42:20.956
Mm.

00:42:21.556 --> 00:42:25.335
And the problem with that is what happens when a better idea is proposed?

00:42:25.936 --> 00:42:26.356
Yeah.

00:42:26.806 --> 00:42:27.376
Okay.

00:42:27.376 --> 00:42:29.775
Then therefore I am wrong because I am my idea.

00:42:30.871 --> 00:42:33.001
My gosh, didn't we see this play out in the elections?

00:42:33.001 --> 00:42:36.690
Well, can't we just declare what things are actually virtues?

00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:37.320
Right.

00:42:37.351 --> 00:42:37.681
Well, and

00:42:37.681 --> 00:42:39.030
gather around them a little bit.

00:42:39.240 --> 00:42:39.570
Yeah.

00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:41.190
So absolutely.

00:42:41.311 --> 00:42:41.670
It

00:42:41.670 --> 00:42:42.811
seems like most of the

00:42:42.811 --> 00:42:57.871
things that are known as virtues are Well, and so it's one thing for me to state a virtue, but I, you know, going back to our conversation around suffering earlier, um, what are people willing to sacrifice for?

00:42:57.871 --> 00:43:10.471
Because the truth in what that pulse suggests is that there are some people that have had the rules bent for them, and I don't think it's the vast majority, but they've had the rules bent for them and they have broken the social contract.

00:43:11.041 --> 00:43:11.460
Yeah.

00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:12.030
Right.

00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:13.351
So that's an issue.

00:43:13.351 --> 00:43:13.800
Yeah.

00:43:13.951 --> 00:43:14.280
Right.

00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:19.666
Well, and I mean, to some extent, and I don't wanna say it this way, but the, the social contract.

00:43:21.045 --> 00:43:23.235
Was invited to be broken for sure.

00:43:23.326 --> 00:43:23.985
Um, yeah.

00:43:24.076 --> 00:43:29.775
Like we just had another big time church shoot'em up by a trans person.

00:43:29.775 --> 00:43:29.865
Mm-hmm.

00:43:30.195 --> 00:43:33.436
Probably on a bunch of drugs that Pfizer makes a bunch of money on.

00:43:33.436 --> 00:43:40.335
It also coincidentally turns people into violent, angry people that shoot churches.

00:43:40.516 --> 00:43:40.815
Yep.

00:43:41.025 --> 00:43:42.166
Church schools, sorry.

00:43:42.465 --> 00:43:43.606
Well, and, and the reality,

00:43:43.666 --> 00:43:45.706
so when we have,

00:43:46.306 --> 00:43:50.356
um, but there, that's the person that's disengaged, right?

00:43:50.356 --> 00:43:53.115
They're like, I don't care what the cost to me is.

00:43:53.115 --> 00:43:56.565
This society is effed and it's time to go.

00:43:56.865 --> 00:44:10.635
When people are scared and they're afraid and their hurt and trust has been broken, they, they adapt very simple algorithms to make information easier to discern because it's, it feels safer than applying nuance.

00:44:10.905 --> 00:44:11.085
Mm-hmm.

00:44:11.596 --> 00:44:17.925
And that is, as much as I'd love to pretend that I don't operate that way, every human being is wired that way.

00:44:18.541 --> 00:44:29.190
So we have to make a conscious choice, whether through our faith, through how we study things, to know, through our philosophy, through the ideas we generate to fight that temptation.

00:44:29.251 --> 00:44:44.101
And like, this is not a opinion, this, like scientifically, if I'm thrown into flight or flight or fight response, I, I literally don't have the emotional, intellectual, or spiritual capacity to relate to you as a human being.

00:44:44.161 --> 00:44:44.460
Hmm.

00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:53.880
And I think that with AI and all those other kind of things, the differentiator by default is if fas are able to do more, your primary value proposition is being a human being.

00:44:54.150 --> 00:44:54.451
Hmm.

00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:57.811
Which means warts and all, by the way.

00:44:57.871 --> 00:44:58.260
Well, yeah.

00:44:58.650 --> 00:45:00.150
Really though, I mean, yeah.

00:45:00.150 --> 00:45:01.951
Even the, the fight or flight part or

00:45:01.951 --> 00:45:02.490
whatever.

00:45:02.550 --> 00:45:02.911
Yes.

00:45:02.911 --> 00:45:06.751
That seems to me like putting our biggest vulnerability in front almost.

00:45:07.231 --> 00:45:09.661
I mean, meditation, it's a of it's been trying to, it's a part of it.

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:13.260
I don't think we could turn that off away maybe at some point, but here's what I'm saying.

00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:14.400
Um.

00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:15.121
Okay.

00:45:15.181 --> 00:45:15.240
Yeah.

00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:24.811
When you're like, as a parent, it was a privilege to hold my kids when they're crying, when they can't do their best and choose to love them anyway.

00:45:25.621 --> 00:45:29.641
And that's maybe a glimpse of what it's like to be in relationship with my neighbor and feel that way.

00:45:29.641 --> 00:45:30.001
Right?

00:45:30.061 --> 00:45:30.240
Hmm.

00:45:30.601 --> 00:45:34.141
It's a gift to send it and it's a gift to receive it.

00:45:34.621 --> 00:45:37.141
And that is what people want more of.

00:45:37.141 --> 00:45:44.940
And the only way to get there is by cultivating your own capacity for suffering because it gives you the opportunity to empathize with people going through it and to see them for who they really are.

00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:48.811
And do you do that in part through voluntary suffering too?

00:45:49.110 --> 00:45:52.050
I think voluntary suffering can be a part of it.

00:45:52.231 --> 00:45:58.440
Um, I think the challenge with that is sometimes we can get on these like dopamine hits on sort of celebrating my voluntary suffering.

00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:59.371
Right, right.

00:45:59.371 --> 00:46:01.320
Hey, check out many CrossFit workouts I did.

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:02.701
Or I'm grinding seven hours a week

00:46:03.570 --> 00:46:03.731
for the hospital.

00:46:03.731 --> 00:46:04.141
Did you're looking trim by the way?

00:46:04.231 --> 00:46:06.331
Uh, not as thick as you were.

00:46:06.331 --> 00:46:07.440
You've kind of like you were.

00:46:08.101 --> 00:46:10.740
Getting tough for a while now you're more like getting skinny.

00:46:10.740 --> 00:46:13.920
That like long life kind of style thing or I, you know,

00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:18.121
some of that, um, I, I had not intentional all of it.

00:46:18.181 --> 00:46:24.271
Well some of, um, I I, I'll give a business a free plug here'cause it's kind of funny.

00:46:24.271 --> 00:46:27.661
They were, I told'em they could use my photos and I found out the other day they were.

00:46:28.065 --> 00:46:32.715
Um, so I got my, I got some orthodontia work done with Invisalign through Owens Dental.

00:46:32.715 --> 00:46:33.135
Oh, okay.

00:46:33.135 --> 00:46:35.235
You know, um, I always thought you had nice teeth, or not.

00:46:35.235 --> 00:46:37.905
Owens Dental, Tim Timac orthodontics.

00:46:37.905 --> 00:46:38.835
Oh gosh, I'm so sorry.

00:46:38.835 --> 00:46:40.210
But Owens Dental ortho, do you guys, do you wanna

00:46:40.335 --> 00:46:42.045
get me hooked up with Exactly, yeah,

00:46:42.076 --> 00:46:44.596
you should throw, you should throw a sponsorship This.

00:46:44.951 --> 00:46:45.280
Show right.

00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:45.940
All the time.

00:46:45.971 --> 00:46:46.931
Yeah, exactly.

00:46:47.231 --> 00:46:48.400
You should see Kurt smile.

00:46:49.001 --> 00:46:49.900
It's not that good.

00:46:49.931 --> 00:46:55.451
What ended up happening is I got invis, I chipped my teeth a couple times'cause my teeth started to get crowded, got on Invisalign.

00:46:55.510 --> 00:47:01.061
And when you're on Invisalign, I got really hyper disciplined around brushing, not brush, you know, brushing and then wearing'em.

00:47:01.061 --> 00:47:02.471
And by the default, this is all related

00:47:02.471 --> 00:47:03.880
to your brake muscles and stuff.

00:47:04.090 --> 00:47:07.931
Well, I mean, I had built some of that base during COVID when I got into power lifting.

00:47:08.021 --> 00:47:08.351
Oh, right.

00:47:08.351 --> 00:47:11.231
And so then as you shed some of that, it makes it easier to show.

00:47:11.411 --> 00:47:11.800
Okay.

00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:13.871
And then once you have it, it's easier to maintain this.

00:47:13.871 --> 00:47:14.141
You know?

00:47:14.141 --> 00:47:18.070
And by the way, I, I used to be very overweight a long time ago.

00:47:18.070 --> 00:47:18.221
Yeah, yeah.

00:47:18.221 --> 00:47:20.110
Like 250 pounds, soft and fluffy.

00:47:20.110 --> 00:47:21.731
Shallow how fat suit style.

00:47:22.481 --> 00:47:27.010
So I got, this is not like I, well, and I'm saying this only because

00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:28.570
whoever's listening, what a crazy thing though.

00:47:28.570 --> 00:47:28.780
Your,

00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:30.130
your body's been through.

00:47:30.190 --> 00:47:32.951
Like, I've been pretty much like I was a little guy, if you remember.

00:47:32.951 --> 00:47:33.041
Mm-hmm.

00:47:33.311 --> 00:47:35.081
Maybe from our podcast, maybe not, but mm-hmm.

00:47:35.380 --> 00:47:35.740
Yeah.

00:47:35.740 --> 00:47:35.751
Yeah.

00:47:35.751 --> 00:47:42.025
I, and remember then, basically since like second year of college, I've been somewhere between 1 65 and 200.

00:47:42.885 --> 00:47:46.365
Sometimes up to 2 0 2, 2 0 4, but we don't talk about that.

00:47:46.485 --> 00:47:46.936
Mm-hmm.

00:47:46.942 --> 00:47:47.150
Mm-hmm.

00:47:47.295 --> 00:47:49.215
Which is a, such a different journey.

00:47:49.396 --> 00:47:49.606
Yeah.

00:47:49.635 --> 00:47:50.715
And basically this build.

00:47:50.925 --> 00:47:51.016
Mm-hmm.

00:47:51.525 --> 00:47:54.135
Like I've had some bigger full background at times,

00:47:54.135 --> 00:47:55.846
you know, and stuff, but nothing major.

00:47:55.846 --> 00:48:00.195
But you've been like buff King now you're like skinny butt guy.

00:48:00.286 --> 00:48:05.175
And, uh, you, you used to be like the donut king back in college days.

00:48:05.356 --> 00:48:05.715
Oh yeah.

00:48:05.715 --> 00:48:10.576
I was the guy, candidly, that knew I prided myself on how good of a time I could have.

00:48:10.606 --> 00:48:12.496
And I had the, I had the picture to prove it.

00:48:13.036 --> 00:48:16.545
I had gotten a perm just for the fun of it, with my hair down to my shoulders.

00:48:16.545 --> 00:48:21.405
And I, I literally looked, if anyone's seen the movie, shallow Howl, I looked like I was wearing the fat suit.

00:48:21.465 --> 00:48:23.416
I had like perm curls going on.

00:48:23.536 --> 00:48:26.056
Looked like a cherub, but an unattractive version of it.

00:48:26.085 --> 00:48:26.806
Where did we jump

00:48:26.806 --> 00:48:27.135
off?

00:48:27.135 --> 00:48:29.626
I don't wanna lose, I don't know the track that we were just on.

00:48:29.626 --> 00:48:31.005
Um, oh, but I, let's jump

00:48:31.005 --> 00:48:31.606
into this

00:48:31.786 --> 00:48:34.306
because I've already taken a sip of this seed and spirit.

00:48:34.306 --> 00:48:35.356
High rye whiskey.

00:48:35.655 --> 00:48:36.615
Yeah, it's delicious.

00:48:37.065 --> 00:48:39.346
And you've got the conversation flowing, my friend.

00:48:39.346 --> 00:48:41.115
I can see why you encourage me to have a bourbon.

00:48:41.115 --> 00:48:41.565
It's a lot

00:48:41.565 --> 00:48:42.195
hotter.

00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:43.021
Oh yeah.

00:48:43.021 --> 00:48:45.061
Obviously it is actually than the Noah Mill.

00:48:45.240 --> 00:48:54.300
Um, but also like on the nose, you know, it, it's a probably a three year or a five year, maybe more than a five year.

00:48:54.326 --> 00:48:55.920
But it's a younger whiskey, you can tell.

00:48:56.005 --> 00:48:56.246
Mm-hmm.

00:48:56.326 --> 00:48:56.565
Yeah.

00:48:56.826 --> 00:48:57.451
But it's good.

00:48:57.451 --> 00:48:57.960
What, how

00:48:57.960 --> 00:48:58.831
do you know it's younger?

00:48:58.831 --> 00:49:01.471
'cause I can sense that intuitively, but I don't know why.

00:49:01.650 --> 00:49:01.891
To me

00:49:01.891 --> 00:49:03.601
it's the volatility usually.

00:49:03.690 --> 00:49:04.351
Ah, okay.

00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:04.710
Right.

00:49:04.710 --> 00:49:11.880
You can, it's like smelling gasoline when it's freshly poured or when it's been sitting in a bucket for a little while.

00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:13.501
It's a whole different experience.

00:49:14.161 --> 00:49:15.090
And to me that's,

00:49:15.181 --> 00:49:17.880
yeah, like it's hotter off the nose with the alcohol stuff.

00:49:18.030 --> 00:49:21.271
Oh, that's, man, that's such a, I don't know.

00:49:21.271 --> 00:49:21.661
That's great.

00:49:21.661 --> 00:49:22.860
You're teaching me how to drink bread.

00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:23.581
Have training.

00:49:23.581 --> 00:49:23.880
I have training in this.

00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:24.451
Right.

00:49:24.481 --> 00:49:25.201
Uh, I just

00:49:25.201 --> 00:49:28.530
know when I taste young whiskeys and local whiskeys and well, and it's

00:49:28.530 --> 00:49:29.400
not as integrated.

00:49:29.431 --> 00:49:32.101
So, so now that you're saying that as I smell it, it's easier for me to.

00:49:32.490 --> 00:49:36.121
To experience it in the nose, but you're, it's like I smell alcohol.

00:49:36.181 --> 00:49:37.440
Then there's a layer of flavor.

00:49:37.710 --> 00:49:37.831
Mm-hmm.

00:49:37.971 --> 00:49:39.840
Like, whereas in the other one it was more integrated.

00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:39.900
Yeah.

00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:41.010
It was all kind of together.

00:49:41.206 --> 00:49:41.731
A hundred percent a stitch

00:49:41.731 --> 00:49:43.501
fabric versus a piece of fabric one time.

00:49:43.501 --> 00:49:43.561
Yeah.

00:49:43.806 --> 00:49:46.081
And it's just that time of mellowing kind of thing.

00:49:46.170 --> 00:49:46.411
Nice.

00:49:46.471 --> 00:49:53.340
And like, I suspect that this is probably a better product or real close.

00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:53.431
Mm-hmm.

00:49:53.431 --> 00:49:55.351
Like it is got a real nice mm-hmm.

00:49:55.621 --> 00:49:59.490
Vibe to be for a, i I, I think it's for like a$45 bottle.

00:49:59.490 --> 00:49:59.581
Good.

00:49:59.581 --> 00:50:01.681
I don't know how much Ben spent on the Noah's mill.

00:50:01.771 --> 00:50:01.951
Mm-hmm.

00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:04.411
But it's young and not too expensive.

00:50:04.471 --> 00:50:04.831
Mm-hmm.

00:50:05.251 --> 00:50:11.940
Uh, seed and Spirit will be on the local experience podcast here in, I think October, mid, mid to late October.

00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:12.601
So, awesome.

00:50:12.871 --> 00:50:16.201
Um, I'm expecting, I told him actually, uh, that I expect.

00:50:16.695 --> 00:50:21.195
Them to arrange for transportation and us for, for us to kind of get drunk.

00:50:21.195 --> 00:50:23.326
I haven't been like proper drunk.

00:50:23.565 --> 00:50:24.016
Fair enough.

00:50:24.016 --> 00:50:25.911
During the podcast for like, a couple years, man.

00:50:25.911 --> 00:50:26.710
That's gonna be entertaining.

00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:27.710
Hopefully it's

00:50:27.710 --> 00:50:29.356
entertaining for the audience out there.

00:50:29.476 --> 00:50:29.990
Well, we'll try.

00:50:30.101 --> 00:50:34.701
Yeah, let's get back to what you were talking about, um, because it was kind of important.

00:50:34.701 --> 00:50:35.240
It was.

00:50:36.681 --> 00:50:37.521
You don't remember either.

00:50:37.641 --> 00:50:41.690
Well, so, um, there's a number of things we've talked about.

00:50:41.690 --> 00:50:51.740
I know, but I think that there's a couple things that I, I emphasized on the most recent one was I think that being a human being is gonna be the voluntary suffering

00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:53.391
and involuntary suffering.

00:50:53.420 --> 00:50:53.601
Mm-hmm.

00:50:54.021 --> 00:51:05.420
More so, like, when I think about the notion, so I was having a conversation with this, was it in my podcast?

00:51:05.420 --> 00:51:05.931
It might've been.

00:51:06.021 --> 00:51:06.170
Mm-hmm.

00:51:07.070 --> 00:51:08.630
Somebody that got like.

00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:11.900
Injured and had a big struggle and stuff.

00:51:12.021 --> 00:51:16.791
And I was like, you know, most of the bad things that have happened to me, I've basically done to myself.

00:51:16.940 --> 00:51:17.751
Mm.

00:51:18.201 --> 00:51:28.041
Um, and then she was like, well, no, actually, the whole staph infection thing and stuff was caused because I skied again like three weeks before the doctor told me I should.

00:51:28.070 --> 00:51:29.846
And that's what caused the mm-hmm.

00:51:30.501 --> 00:51:31.431
And I was like, oh, damn.

00:51:31.431 --> 00:51:31.731
You know?

00:51:31.911 --> 00:51:32.240
Mm-hmm.

00:51:32.990 --> 00:51:37.460
And sometimes pe things actually happen to you that you didn't.

00:51:38.315 --> 00:51:39.425
Due to yourself.

00:51:39.576 --> 00:51:39.846
Yeah.

00:51:40.085 --> 00:51:40.326
Yeah.

00:51:40.385 --> 00:51:43.326
Um, and that's the, in, to me, that's the involuntary suffering.

00:51:43.326 --> 00:51:44.525
Well, and sometimes in some ways.

00:51:44.525 --> 00:51:47.286
And so, but, but you can't go looking for involuntary suffering.

00:51:47.286 --> 00:51:49.025
That's just being dumb, isn't it?

00:51:49.025 --> 00:51:49.326
A little bit.

00:51:49.416 --> 00:51:50.255
Well, well, so,

00:51:50.255 --> 00:51:51.036
so, okay.

00:51:51.096 --> 00:51:54.606
So I guess it depends on what your definition of suffering is, but Yeah.

00:51:54.786 --> 00:52:00.425
You know, let's, let's just say that most people think it, I think I'm picking up what if I'm very broad here.

00:52:00.456 --> 00:52:04.266
Like you could say that, like a very intense workout's, a form of suffering.

00:52:04.266 --> 00:52:06.275
I don't, I don't mean to underplay people that's voluntary.

00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:08.795
Voluntary come through, like intense trauma, but it is voluntary, right?

00:52:09.215 --> 00:52:10.536
And so I think that that's great.

00:52:10.536 --> 00:52:17.556
You know, I think that helps cultivate, you know, it can, it can help cultivate this, this internal sort of integrity.

00:52:17.976 --> 00:52:30.155
Um, but involuntary suffering, I mean, let's take an example where someone makes a decision that wrecks their life, but they do so in a way that kind of builds up over time, unconsciously, like taking addiction, um.

00:52:30.545 --> 00:52:37.085
You know, uh, it's easy maybe in hindsight to be like, oh, you know, this decision led to this decision.

00:52:37.085 --> 00:52:41.045
But when that person's living it in the moment, it's not how it feels that way.

00:52:41.045 --> 00:52:45.306
Sometimes it feels like they're making a decision that they don't know that they're making, or shame takes over.

00:52:45.306 --> 00:52:49.056
And I don't mean to negate the responsibility or the empowerment that comes with that.

00:52:49.896 --> 00:53:01.115
And at the same time, human relationship reminds us that, uh, like the most powerful relationship we have is remind us of our best versions of ourselves during the worst moments of our life.

00:53:01.146 --> 00:53:01.175
Okay?

00:53:03.065 --> 00:53:17.405
You know, and so that's why I think this human relationship element's so important because, you know, if, if I make a decision that wrecks my life or you know, someone makes a decision that wrecks my life, you know, a drunk driver that's driving that hits me and I know I'm paralyzed, right?

00:53:18.036 --> 00:53:21.516
Um, really challenging experience for both people.

00:53:22.445 --> 00:53:28.025
Um, both of them are going through to some, you know, the drunk driver, did they consciously make the choice to drive?

00:53:28.835 --> 00:53:32.675
You know, they still bear responsibility, but it wasn't, it wasn't real.

00:53:32.885 --> 00:53:34.715
There's an element of them that it was, it wasn't

00:53:34.715 --> 00:53:35.856
pre hit of murder.

00:53:35.885 --> 00:53:36.096
Yeah.

00:53:36.096 --> 00:53:37.115
It wasn't premeditated.

00:53:37.626 --> 00:53:43.626
I'm on this path and due to poor decisions in the past, et finally have to deal with the consequences of my decision.

00:53:43.630 --> 00:53:43.985
Yeah, yeah.

00:53:44.045 --> 00:53:45.485
In one of the worst possible ways.

00:53:45.726 --> 00:53:46.925
So how do you cope with that?

00:53:46.925 --> 00:53:55.115
And as human beings, the reality is that, like, that example there is, there's, there's no way to make that fair.

00:53:55.806 --> 00:53:56.766
There's no way to make it.

00:53:56.766 --> 00:53:57.215
Right.

00:53:57.306 --> 00:53:57.516
Yeah.

00:53:57.516 --> 00:53:57.936
Yeah.

00:53:58.146 --> 00:53:59.525
No, I think like in, in a way,

00:53:59.675 --> 00:54:05.346
you have to march through whatever happens, no matter what.

00:54:05.465 --> 00:54:05.675
Mm-hmm.

00:54:07.025 --> 00:54:08.376
Kind of, so yeah.

00:54:08.376 --> 00:54:11.856
I, I mean like, like, well, I think about job obviously, right?

00:54:12.126 --> 00:54:12.215
Mm-hmm.

00:54:12.456 --> 00:54:14.106
Or even worse.

00:54:14.106 --> 00:54:15.170
What's the, oh, Hosea.

00:54:15.311 --> 00:54:15.731
Mm-hmm.

00:54:16.175 --> 00:54:16.385
Right?

00:54:16.385 --> 00:54:18.755
God's like, Hey, I'm going to.

00:54:20.016 --> 00:54:22.835
Allow you to endure this suffering.

00:54:22.925 --> 00:54:23.045
Mm-hmm.

00:54:23.346 --> 00:54:23.856
You know?

00:54:24.695 --> 00:54:25.206
Yeah.

00:54:25.235 --> 00:54:27.425
And hopefully, like, I mean, and now you know how

00:54:27.425 --> 00:54:28.416
I feel, bitch.

00:54:28.626 --> 00:54:28.806
Yeah.

00:54:29.135 --> 00:54:30.606
Basically, that's the way I summarize Jose.

00:54:30.905 --> 00:54:31.146
Yeah.

00:54:31.215 --> 00:54:37.635
What I'm, what I am, uh, what I'm trying to say about this is like in an experience where someone.

00:54:38.356 --> 00:54:42.465
Harms another when there's deep hurt and mistrust and there's no way to sort of make it Right.

00:54:42.525 --> 00:54:48.405
In a, the only way to spiritually transcend that is to, is to forgive.

00:54:48.465 --> 00:54:48.766
Yeah.

00:54:49.246 --> 00:54:53.025
And to move past it and like that is not a rational choice always.

00:54:53.056 --> 00:54:53.445
Right.

00:54:53.445 --> 00:54:53.806
Because

00:54:53.835 --> 00:54:55.425
it's the willing endurant Yeah.

00:54:55.425 --> 00:54:58.811
Like, it's kind of like, I mean, you were, you were bragging on Jesus earlier mm-hmm.

00:54:58.911 --> 00:55:00.731
And the willing and dormant mm-hmm.

00:55:00.916 --> 00:55:06.706
Of something that didn't seem rational for him to take on.

00:55:07.065 --> 00:55:07.516
Sure.

00:55:07.786 --> 00:55:08.956
Having had no sin.

00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:09.411
Well, yeah.

00:55:09.710 --> 00:55:14.385
You know, well, it's, it's, I mean, I, um, not to compare anybody to Jesus, but, um, no, sure.

00:55:14.391 --> 00:55:17.806
But we, but, but he understands our journey in some ways.

00:55:17.806 --> 00:55:18.255
I think that's, yeah.

00:55:18.650 --> 00:55:18.891
I think,

00:55:18.896 --> 00:55:19.036
I

00:55:19.036 --> 00:55:19.306
think

00:55:19.306 --> 00:55:19.846
when you have why that

00:55:19.846 --> 00:55:20.356
story is

00:55:20.356 --> 00:55:20.476
so

00:55:20.476 --> 00:55:20.985
powerful,

00:55:21.045 --> 00:55:22.365
it's an ideal, right?

00:55:22.365 --> 00:55:25.126
Like by default, I don't think we can fully understand it.

00:55:25.126 --> 00:55:27.315
But if I try to glimpse at that, right?

00:55:27.315 --> 00:55:35.956
Like I think we, um, we have the potential as human beings to develop the capacity to transcend.

00:55:36.871 --> 00:55:38.880
What you identified in that poll.

00:55:39.601 --> 00:55:45.451
And that's a symptom of an underlying problem, which is there's a lot of hurt, pain and mistrust out there.

00:55:45.990 --> 00:55:56.880
And no amount of pain, no amount of, no amount of like reparations are gonna make that Right if we don't have some sort of spiritual transcendence associated with it.

00:55:56.885 --> 00:55:57.036
Mm-hmm.

00:55:57.121 --> 00:56:04.380
And that requires in order for trust, if trust per the, the workshop or, you know, the business thing we did earlier this week Yeah, yeah.

00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:09.541
Is a combination of integrity, uh, competence and compassion.

00:56:09.811 --> 00:56:12.751
You can have someone that's, I think we've got a lot of competence out there Yeah.

00:56:12.751 --> 00:56:17.010
Is gonna help with that, but like the integrity piece and the compassion piece.

00:56:17.041 --> 00:56:17.490
Totally.

00:56:18.001 --> 00:56:20.130
Those are the muscles and suffering helps cultivate that.

00:56:20.130 --> 00:56:20.460
Yeah.

00:56:20.476 --> 00:56:20.596
Yeah.

00:56:20.971 --> 00:56:22.740
Well, and this was a global survey.

00:56:22.951 --> 00:56:23.041
Mm-hmm.

00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:23.791
Right?

00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:25.291
And so mm-hmm.

00:56:25.981 --> 00:56:28.471
Like, you know, make America great again.

00:56:29.251 --> 00:56:32.490
Can't really happen if we make everybody else broke.

00:56:33.331 --> 00:56:33.840
Um.

00:56:34.411 --> 00:56:44.460
And I don't totally disagree with some of Trump stuff, and I don't really like the, uh, national Guard in not Washington, DC cities.

00:56:45.931 --> 00:56:48.510
Um, but we could drift to those questions later.

00:56:48.570 --> 00:56:49.050
Sure.

00:56:49.260 --> 00:57:03.391
Um, and all that to say like, we need a visionary, a set of visionary leaders for the world that say, this is what we're trying to put together a little bit.

00:57:03.541 --> 00:57:03.661
Mm-hmm.

00:57:04.291 --> 00:57:07.471
You know, where, where we can have mm-hmm.

00:57:07.710 --> 00:57:11.371
A place of trade, a place of peace, a place of betterment for all.

00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:15.630
It's gonna take a while because all the youth of these super poor nations are like.

00:57:16.201 --> 00:57:17.221
That's fucking Americans.

00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:17.670
Mm-hmm.

00:57:17.911 --> 00:57:18.210
Right.

00:57:18.210 --> 00:57:20.280
Or, and or let's go get some of theirs.

00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.081
And the Brits are struggling.

00:57:22.081 --> 00:57:27.661
The Scots are struggling, the Swedes are struggling, and like, why would you wanna stay in Syria anyway?

00:57:27.811 --> 00:57:28.170
Yeah.

00:57:28.231 --> 00:57:29.731
Um, here, here's why.

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:31.471
Here's why I know where to ripe time.

00:57:31.471 --> 00:57:42.090
And I, I, I tend to take an optimistic view on this because there's, there's times in history where we have technology converge with social strife, converge with like a spiritual potential for awakening.

00:57:42.121 --> 00:57:42.331
Hmm.

00:57:42.871 --> 00:57:50.521
And, um, what people loved about Obama, parts of him, whether he put in practice or not, just take his aeration.

00:57:50.521 --> 00:57:50.581
Yeah.

00:57:50.581 --> 00:57:59.161
And what people love about Trump put into practice or not, is they give them something to believe in and they cultivate hope.

00:57:59.161 --> 00:57:59.400
Yeah.

00:58:00.621 --> 00:58:00.871
Yeah.

00:58:01.141 --> 00:58:06.815
And no, no, I didn't personally experience that with Biden, but I did personally experience that with, with Obama.

00:58:06.865 --> 00:58:07.226
Obama, Obama.

00:58:07.226 --> 00:58:07.291
And.

00:58:08.266 --> 00:58:09.735
No, I personally, I don't think

00:58:09.735 --> 00:58:10.876
anybody experienced it with Biden.

00:58:11.565 --> 00:58:11.985
Right.

00:58:12.076 --> 00:58:13.965
Well, I mean, and I, that's okay.

00:58:13.965 --> 00:58:15.615
I mean, I'm just, I'm just saying that like, I'm the

00:58:15.615 --> 00:58:16.335
podcast host.

00:58:16.335 --> 00:58:16.846
I'm not even,

00:58:16.846 --> 00:58:21.166
even, I'm not even like claim, like talking, not policy, but like, there's a hunger for that, right?

00:58:21.166 --> 00:58:28.635
So what's crazy is like, like a real, someone that's looking at this objectively, it's like, well, what was, like, Obama's great at that, right?

00:58:28.635 --> 00:58:30.286
He's his classy statesman, et cetera.

00:58:30.286 --> 00:58:34.335
Different tactics than Trump, but like, he gave people something to believe in.

00:58:34.335 --> 00:58:34.396
Yeah.

00:58:34.666 --> 00:58:40.275
You know, uh, make America Great again represents this idea or this hope in something, right?

00:58:41.206 --> 00:58:44.115
You, you could argue all day long whether he's doing a good job or not.

00:58:44.115 --> 00:58:45.916
Like, I'm not even gonna get into that.

00:58:46.036 --> 00:58:52.846
But it's like there's this desire to reach for something greater than ourselves that makes me optimistic.

00:58:53.356 --> 00:58:57.916
If we can continue to strive towards having more integrity and more compassion for one another.

00:58:58.275 --> 00:59:05.505
And I think the only way to do that is to realize that there's some amount of suffering that's gonna be voluntary and involuntary that's necessary to cultivate that.

00:59:05.715 --> 00:59:16.576
And so to come back to the social strife we talked about earlier in this Edelman stuff, it's like the reality is like you could have people out there that have done the right things their whole life and there's more sacrifice ahead of them.

00:59:17.626 --> 00:59:18.885
That's just the reality.

00:59:19.365 --> 00:59:22.335
Um, and that's, that's like what being a human being is, right?

00:59:22.425 --> 00:59:28.425
Um, but there's also, you know, and you know, in the business owner context, you know, if you've got vast amounts of wealth, all that kind of stuff.

00:59:28.846 --> 00:59:42.525
And, um, there's also, you know, folks in our, I mean, man, people that are underage 30, I'm really concerned about just as a, as a group of people in our culture, relationship formation is down.

00:59:42.525 --> 00:59:49.606
Like all these things that we would say are signs of a healthy community cohort or a healthy cohort, well,

00:59:49.606 --> 00:59:51.315
we need have babies at least.

00:59:51.346 --> 00:59:51.496
Mm-hmm.

00:59:51.916 --> 00:59:53.985
You know, and they don't even know how to talk to each other.

00:59:54.661 --> 00:59:57.690
Yeah, well, the boys are all whacking off with the girls.

00:59:58.050 --> 00:59:58.951
I don't know what they're getting.

00:59:58.951 --> 01:00:02.070
Robot boyfriends, basically emotional support vehicles.

01:00:02.070 --> 01:00:07.081
But man, I, I'm super concerned for that group because, um, our team's very young.

01:00:07.110 --> 01:00:40.951
I'm the oldest person on our team, and what my experience in working with, you know, sort of the best and brightest in this age cohort is like, man, when, when there is a, when you are equally yoked with those folks, like you can accomplish some incredible things and they've really not been, their character has not been stewarded well to cultivate wisdom and discernment, which is also, ironically enough, whether it's right or wrong, that group is showing up in droves at religious institutions that want a black and white interpretation.

01:00:41.251 --> 01:00:41.280
Mm.

01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:42.570
Of what is truth.

01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:43.081
Yeah.

01:00:43.110 --> 01:00:45.061
Like they actually want truth, which is great.

01:00:45.061 --> 01:00:46.860
Right now you can argue all day long what that is.

01:00:47.070 --> 01:00:50.101
But the fact that we have an age cohort that's, that's, it's crazy.

01:00:50.101 --> 01:00:50.221
Right?

01:00:50.221 --> 01:00:53.101
Objectively struggling as much as they are, and there's honor for truth there.

01:00:53.476 --> 01:00:55.005
That's incredible.

01:00:55.036 --> 01:00:55.695
What that means is

01:00:55.695 --> 01:01:00.856
they want to teach her in a, in an untruth world, why wouldn't people strive?

01:01:00.916 --> 01:01:01.036
Mm-hmm.

01:01:01.275 --> 01:01:02.266
To try to figure out what's true.

01:01:02.385 --> 01:01:02.536
Mm-hmm.

01:01:02.925 --> 01:01:03.255
Yeah.

01:01:03.286 --> 01:01:09.286
I mean, obviously, uh, even my blog that's, I've just been wrapping up about trust is partly about truth.

01:01:09.376 --> 01:01:09.465
Mm-hmm.

01:01:09.766 --> 01:01:10.965
What is true, what is not.

01:01:11.146 --> 01:01:11.385
Mm-hmm.

01:01:11.775 --> 01:01:12.436
Time to take a break.

01:01:12.706 --> 01:01:13.065
Sure.

01:01:13.335 --> 01:01:13.695
Let's do it.

01:02:06.376 --> 01:02:06.916
We're back.

01:02:07.606 --> 01:02:20.385
And I wanna start with, um, like what's the world becoming a little bit, because you're a farsighted guy, a little bit like I am, you're I think, a white type pa, but also more avidly red and stuff.

01:02:20.385 --> 01:02:30.226
And you were talking about kind of this, the thing that sets humans apart from AI is our humanness and stuff.

01:02:30.405 --> 01:02:33.135
And so, okay.

01:02:33.525 --> 01:02:33.646
Mm-hmm.

01:02:33.945 --> 01:02:37.425
And so what does the average person do with that?

01:02:37.726 --> 01:02:38.115
Yeah.

01:02:38.746 --> 01:02:38.896
You

01:02:38.896 --> 01:02:47.505
know, well, I, I, I wish I knew, and I, I do have some thoughts on that.

01:02:47.626 --> 01:02:54.945
Uh, what I alluded to earlier was, I think one of the things that sets us apart is our fallibility.

01:02:56.626 --> 01:03:00.106
And that might not be the answer that people want, but it's true.

01:03:00.585 --> 01:03:03.496
And it's what's unique.

01:03:04.141 --> 01:03:05.490
How do we transcend that?

01:03:05.490 --> 01:03:09.780
And I don't mean we transcend in the sense that I never make mistakes and I function as a robot.

01:03:09.811 --> 01:03:14.880
'cause that's what the I, the AI is or has the potential to do.

01:03:14.911 --> 01:03:24.900
It's how do, how do we transcend that beyond the competency, but in our own, how do we, how do I refine my virtue in many contexts?

01:03:24.900 --> 01:03:28.650
You know, by, i, I cultivate integrity through suffering or through joy.

01:03:28.681 --> 01:03:32.596
Like, it doesn't just have to be suffering, but like, um, yeah.

01:03:32.601 --> 01:03:33.001
Yeah.

01:03:33.150 --> 01:03:34.201
I think that's, that's an interesting thing.

01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:36.780
Well, so, and, and you know, there's, so it's a values driven thing.

01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:38.820
'cause AI doesn't have any values.

01:03:38.911 --> 01:03:39.521
Well, it, it

01:03:39.521 --> 01:03:40.050
will though.

01:03:40.110 --> 01:03:45.090
I mean, so Isaac, uh, man, I, you know, I grab a glass of Yes.

01:03:45.570 --> 01:03:52.110
Um, you know, so he taught, uh, there's literature that he's written that kind of teases out some of these concepts.

01:03:52.110 --> 01:03:57.630
And I think it will, I think we'll have to decide, you know, sort of fundamentally what are, what are, what's the bedrock

01:03:57.871 --> 01:04:01.920
of what are our fundamental human values so we can program that into.

01:04:02.746 --> 01:04:03.436
The AI kind of.

01:04:03.585 --> 01:04:04.065
Yeah.

01:04:04.096 --> 01:04:06.976
And, and that's gonna be important.

01:04:07.275 --> 01:04:18.045
And I also think, like I don't, I don't, I don't know the technology well enough to know it's gonna come around the bend in like three years.

01:04:18.045 --> 01:04:21.525
What I do think is gonna happen is I can pay attention to like social fabrics.

01:04:21.556 --> 01:04:24.405
So, uh, so get connected.

01:04:24.856 --> 01:04:25.275
Yeah.

01:04:25.275 --> 01:04:35.686
Well, and, and just, uh, like people are falling in love with these technologies that are designed to tell them exactly what they think.

01:04:35.806 --> 01:04:36.016
Yes.

01:04:36.016 --> 01:04:36.556
Why wouldn't

01:04:36.556 --> 01:04:40.306
I fall in love with somebody that thinks I'm awesome all the time?

01:04:40.425 --> 01:04:40.666
Yeah.

01:04:40.666 --> 01:04:45.135
But, but just like how you don't want to, like always, but that's not real.

01:04:45.465 --> 01:04:46.275
No, I'm teasing.

01:04:46.365 --> 01:04:51.916
Well, no, but see that, so then it's like, well, okay, you know the Jordan Peterson, oh, what do you mean by real?

01:04:51.916 --> 01:04:53.175
Let's define by real.

01:04:53.175 --> 01:04:54.376
That's a meme out there night.

01:04:54.376 --> 01:04:58.516
Which kudos to that man for being so famous that he now has people making memes about him.

01:04:58.516 --> 01:04:59.925
But I think that.

01:05:00.465 --> 01:05:07.905
Like there's the temptation of that, like that dopamine rollercoaster, and at the same time you're like, but the dopamine doesn't have meaning.

01:05:07.905 --> 01:05:12.766
If I don't know how to transcend that with, you know, cultivating serotonin and oxytocin.

01:05:12.766 --> 01:05:26.266
Well, oxytocin, you experience more with intimacy and volatility and that, and the decision to know that, that, that you're choosing and that someone else is choosing you or that we're choosing our situation despite the circumstances.

01:05:26.266 --> 01:05:26.505
I'm thinking

01:05:26.505 --> 01:05:28.036
about Romeo and Juliet right now.

01:05:28.275 --> 01:05:28.936
No, gosh.

01:05:28.936 --> 01:05:31.246
Like they do the scene when they fell in love.

01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:32.240
Right.

01:05:32.271 --> 01:05:32.601
Well see.

01:05:32.601 --> 01:05:35.360
Even that, that's not a logical course.

01:05:35.570 --> 01:05:42.081
Well, I don't Why would ai, ai would never write that story because it's such a, like a, unless it was prompted, I guess, properly.

01:05:42.110 --> 01:05:42.411
Okay.

01:05:42.411 --> 01:05:47.630
So that's a great, so, okay, so a lot of people think that that is love.

01:05:48.110 --> 01:05:58.041
I would say that's romanticism and that could even, you know, if I'm exaggerating it, it's a limerence and there's a deep human need to, to pursue, I don't know what limerence is.

01:05:58.221 --> 01:06:00.291
Well, uh, infatuation.

01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:00.530
Yeah.

01:06:00.530 --> 01:06:00.740
Okay.

01:06:00.740 --> 01:06:02.690
In the most extreme, uh, lu.

01:06:03.050 --> 01:06:03.440
Sure.

01:06:03.831 --> 01:06:04.641
All those things.

01:06:04.670 --> 01:06:05.030
Right.

01:06:05.061 --> 01:06:07.371
So here's, here's the reality of our human experience.

01:06:07.581 --> 01:06:10.130
We have all those things, all those desires, et cetera.

01:06:10.670 --> 01:06:13.610
And we want to feel deeper than that, right?

01:06:13.610 --> 01:06:20.391
So it's like, well, it might feel good in the moment, just like, you know, me pounding a bot, like an entire bag of Oreos might feel really good in the moment.

01:06:20.871 --> 01:06:23.690
I also want to feel the long, the long term.

01:06:24.286 --> 01:06:26.565
Uh, goodness of eating a well-balanced meal.

01:06:26.686 --> 01:06:26.925
Yeah.

01:06:27.016 --> 01:06:27.376
Right.

01:06:27.735 --> 01:06:34.246
So there's times where like if you, if it's truly like the best expression of you, you're like, yeah, I wanna pound that box of Oreos.

01:06:34.666 --> 01:06:36.856
I don't think that's gonna be best for both people.

01:06:37.126 --> 01:06:43.096
But maybe the more, the more, um, the more reflect, are you calling Julietta box of Oreos?

01:06:44.686 --> 01:06:45.076
Yeah.

01:06:45.166 --> 01:06:45.286
Sorry.

01:06:46.036 --> 01:06:47.416
I think that dynamic.

01:06:47.416 --> 01:06:47.775
Yeah.

01:06:48.195 --> 01:06:55.396
And, and, and yet when people look through the lens of social media and these other things, these other social fabrics, they're perceiving that that's real.

01:06:55.936 --> 01:07:00.226
So there's gonna have to be this sort of suffering or sort of coping with what truth is.

01:07:00.286 --> 01:07:03.346
And you have to choose, here's the reality.

01:07:03.615 --> 01:07:10.726
You're gonna have to choose that because, so suffering is, it's the decision to choose to love anyway.

01:07:10.726 --> 01:07:12.496
It's the decision to choose sacrifice.

01:07:12.496 --> 01:07:14.565
And the only way you do that is by choosing it.

01:07:14.985 --> 01:07:16.936
Like you actually have to choose that.

01:07:16.965 --> 01:07:18.646
And you find beauty in the choice.

01:07:18.735 --> 01:07:18.976
Mm.

01:07:19.456 --> 01:07:20.985
That's what, and we, the choice of sacrifice.

01:07:21.815 --> 01:07:22.235
Mm-hmm.

01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:22.681
Yeah.

01:07:22.681 --> 01:07:24.451
What was my blog title a while back?

01:07:24.451 --> 01:07:27.931
It was, uh, it was the Halloween blog a few years ago.

01:07:27.931 --> 01:07:31.201
It was, uh, trick or treat or sacrifice.

01:07:31.291 --> 01:07:31.471
Mm-hmm.

01:07:31.981 --> 01:07:33.481
You know, do you want just the treats?

01:07:33.570 --> 01:07:33.661
Mm-hmm.

01:07:34.141 --> 01:07:40.411
Do you want to just be the trick player or is there some sacrifice involved in building a healthy society?

01:07:40.416 --> 01:07:40.505
Mm-hmm.

01:07:40.981 --> 01:07:44.101
And ultimately that's the foundation of a healthy society.

01:07:44.161 --> 01:07:44.641
Well, yeah.

01:07:44.641 --> 01:07:54.121
And I think that, like Jordan Peterson's on a tour right now describing this, he's got a book that's like pages and pages of this if you want to, you know, which one?

01:07:54.690 --> 01:07:55.860
Uh, his most recent one.

01:07:55.860 --> 01:07:56.666
I forget the title.

01:07:56.905 --> 01:07:57.420
Whatever the name is.

01:07:57.661 --> 01:07:58.201
Yeah.

01:07:58.291 --> 01:07:59.431
He'll tell you if you look him up.

01:07:59.550 --> 01:08:05.940
But here, here's kind of the simple, I'll try to give the overview and I'm not gonna do it full justice'cause I'm know Jordan Peterson.

01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:06.780
But essentially.

01:08:07.965 --> 01:08:13.635
If we start from the understanding that everything is a sacrifice, like every choice is a sacrifice.

01:08:13.666 --> 01:08:19.756
'cause by default, take this podcast, you know, you're choosing to listen to this versus choosing to listen to something else or do something else.

01:08:19.756 --> 01:08:21.855
Therefore, you're, you're choosing not to do that.

01:08:21.855 --> 01:08:22.756
That's a sacrifice.

01:08:22.756 --> 01:08:23.716
You're making a choice.

01:08:24.645 --> 01:08:25.036
Great.

01:08:25.426 --> 01:08:35.086
So if we understand that premise, then how do we cultivate, how do we cultivate better decision making or better sacrifices?

01:08:35.145 --> 01:08:56.565
And so the story of Canin enable highlights this, where we're gonna go through a phase where, so for those unfamiliar with Canin enable, essentially you have these two brothers, uh, one brother, um, named Kane is he ends up cultivating the spirit of resentment and he ends up murdering his own brother in the field.

01:08:56.956 --> 01:09:02.751
And just generations upon generations later, his, his, his lineage is responsible for creating.

01:09:03.511 --> 01:09:05.251
W weapons that are used for war.

01:09:05.310 --> 01:09:07.171
Not a great legacy, right?

01:09:07.770 --> 01:09:17.190
But the premise of how that started, the origin of that story is these are two brothers, and what's happening is Abel's experiencing providence in terms of his harvest.

01:09:17.190 --> 01:09:18.841
And Cain is not.

01:09:19.171 --> 01:09:22.020
And so Cain prays about it and he's like, God, you know what's going on?

01:09:22.020 --> 01:09:23.701
I'm doing all this, yada, yada, yada.

01:09:24.030 --> 01:09:25.860
Why aren't you blessing me, essentially?

01:09:26.461 --> 01:09:29.791
And God gives him a message that's unpalatable.

01:09:29.791 --> 01:09:31.650
He says, Hey, you're not given your best.

01:09:33.480 --> 01:09:36.780
You know, and you're not given your best, irrespective of knowing the outcome.

01:09:36.990 --> 01:09:38.581
So really it's a testament of faith.

01:09:38.671 --> 01:09:48.301
And like the reality is that the most meaningful parts in your life is where you choose to do your best anyway, despite not knowing what the result's gonna be.

01:09:48.511 --> 01:09:50.011
And that relates to entrepreneurship.

01:09:50.011 --> 01:09:54.541
There are these and, and there's, there's room for genuine doubt in faith.

01:09:54.541 --> 01:09:58.650
That's the truest expression of faith is choosing to believe, to choosing to do anyway.

01:09:59.461 --> 01:10:05.041
And I think a lot of people don't even fully understand that, but you've got this gentleman named Cain and the story in the Bible that does that.

01:10:05.761 --> 01:10:10.411
And the way he responds to that truth is he says, eh, you're not right.

01:10:10.470 --> 01:10:11.100
I'm gonna go.

01:10:11.100 --> 01:10:14.371
And he invites his brother into the field, he could have chosen to learn from him, and he murders him.

01:10:14.430 --> 01:10:15.270
And then here we go.

01:10:15.541 --> 01:10:26.640
And the reality is, instead of dealing with the reality that he actually wasn't, that spirit of resentment, festered, and then he betrayed everybody else around him and there was a legacy that wasn't great.

01:10:27.060 --> 01:10:30.961
Meanwhile, when Abel's telling us, you know, he's given the best cuts of meat, et cetera.

01:10:30.961 --> 01:10:40.650
Essentially what that highlights is, I'm willing to do my best regardless of the, of the outcome and, and my what.

01:10:40.650 --> 01:10:54.900
What we want to cultivate is an understanding that truth is like that is the only choice if we wanna live a life that's more like Abel's in the sense where it's like, I wanna finish my story, uh, and know that I didn't finish, just say out of self-interest like.

01:10:55.501 --> 01:11:01.770
Not resentful to have a light heart, to have a, a place of gratitude, which is really difficult to experience if I'm feeling resentment.

01:11:02.310 --> 01:11:10.860
Therefore, the only rational outcome is to choose to do my best, to sacrifice my best in the spirit of my virtue, irrespective of knowing the result.

01:11:11.461 --> 01:11:15.810
And when I can choose that voluntarily, like Jesus did, that's a life well lived.

01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:19.530
Now it's easy to say that on paper, hard to cultivate internally.

01:11:20.100 --> 01:11:21.810
I think that's gonna be brought to the forefront.

01:11:21.961 --> 01:11:26.131
Did that come back to the answer of why you left a comfortable existence at Cigna?

01:11:27.030 --> 01:11:27.511
Exactly.

01:11:27.511 --> 01:11:28.831
It feels like it kind of does.

01:11:28.860 --> 01:11:29.161
Yeah.

01:11:29.161 --> 01:11:33.030
I mean, I, I think in why, yeah, that's, we started the podcast that way.

01:11:33.030 --> 01:11:35.461
Maybe, we'll you didn't quite answer that question, but I didn't.

01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:35.761
No.

01:11:35.761 --> 01:11:36.780
Thanks for bringing me back.

01:11:36.780 --> 01:11:41.161
But, um, what happened was I was, I was essentially doing three people's jobs.

01:11:41.461 --> 01:11:44.041
I was achieving a decent amount of success there.

01:11:44.626 --> 01:11:50.926
And I, I what kind of was, I ended up getting put into a sales role and I landed a really large sales.

01:11:51.405 --> 01:11:54.046
I closed a big deal and at the time it was one of the bigger deals

01:11:57.916 --> 01:11:58.815
with the wrong pipe.

01:11:58.876 --> 01:11:59.626
Oh, wrong pipe.

01:11:59.956 --> 01:12:00.466
Wrong pipe.

01:12:00.706 --> 01:12:01.246
Um,

01:12:02.865 --> 01:12:03.555
let's just pause it.

01:12:03.735 --> 01:12:04.006
Yep.

01:12:04.185 --> 01:12:06.376
Let's just, uh, sorry.

01:12:06.405 --> 01:12:06.765
I was That's

01:12:06.765 --> 01:12:07.065
okay.

01:12:07.065 --> 01:12:07.725
Take your time.

01:12:07.905 --> 01:12:08.416
I got awkward

01:12:08.416 --> 01:12:09.645
podcast host moment.

01:12:09.735 --> 01:12:11.025
No, it's all good, man.

01:12:13.666 --> 01:12:14.536
Do you need some water?

01:12:14.536 --> 01:12:15.291
Do you want some of my water?

01:12:15.291 --> 01:12:15.826
It was water.

01:12:16.030 --> 01:12:16.251
Oh.

01:12:16.256 --> 01:12:16.546
Oh.

01:12:16.546 --> 01:12:17.865
It was the wrong po water.

01:12:17.865 --> 01:12:19.546
It was just, yeah, it was just, it was just water.

01:12:19.666 --> 01:12:20.115
Okay.

01:12:20.416 --> 01:12:20.626
Yeah.

01:12:20.631 --> 01:12:22.065
I was just like wrong.

01:12:22.065 --> 01:12:24.076
I, I'll just squash this last bit down.

01:12:24.076 --> 01:12:24.796
I just could have missed.

01:12:28.305 --> 01:12:29.506
That's the worst, man.

01:12:32.926 --> 01:12:33.136
Hmm.

01:12:35.775 --> 01:12:36.405
Excuse me.

01:12:37.666 --> 01:12:38.536
I think I'm almost ready.

01:12:38.805 --> 01:12:39.315
All good.

01:12:39.496 --> 01:12:40.456
Take your time man.

01:12:40.456 --> 01:12:40.605
Amen.

01:12:46.530 --> 01:13:07.921
And it was, it was a line before that, almost, that was the like a little bit before the, uh, Cigna, um, or before the, uh, going through things that was kind of the call to like, to be drawn toward this thing or something.

01:13:07.921 --> 01:13:17.131
That's where I want to almost interrupt you and drag you into the signal thing, but it sounds like it was not actually that because it was much more of a you scrutiny screw you guys, well, here's what happened.

01:13:17.131 --> 01:13:20.341
Uh, but maybe you want to, it actually shift the way that it is relatable.

01:13:20.430 --> 01:13:21.240
It is relatable.

01:13:21.240 --> 01:13:23.430
So, well, I'm, we're not going again yet.

01:13:23.881 --> 01:13:24.360
Oh, okay.

01:13:24.451 --> 01:13:30.240
Um, so I'm gonna probably,'cause I broke off basically right at the start of the Cigna story.

01:13:30.240 --> 01:13:31.770
I started having struggles.

01:13:31.890 --> 01:13:32.131
Okay.

01:13:32.161 --> 01:13:33.751
So I'm just gonna bring us back there real quick.

01:13:33.810 --> 01:13:33.841
Okay.

01:13:33.841 --> 01:13:36.360
And then I'm gonna shift us before too long Okay.

01:13:36.360 --> 01:13:37.980
Because we got not too much time.

01:13:38.070 --> 01:13:38.581
That's fine.

01:13:38.820 --> 01:13:39.631
Whatever you wanna do.

01:13:47.610 --> 01:13:48.211
Okay, here we go.

01:13:49.711 --> 01:13:49.980
Alright.

01:13:49.980 --> 01:13:56.490
And it seems like that, uh, kind of place in time situation is, is what ultimately brings us back to that.

01:13:57.150 --> 01:14:00.961
Why'd you leave a good job and secure job at Cigna and become part of Thrivent?

01:14:01.411 --> 01:14:16.201
Yeah, so I, I think, um, if the spirit of the whole can enable thing is to, like, you want to be able to give your best, and that means you, you want, you want to give your absolute best, irrespective of knowing what the outcome is.

01:14:16.230 --> 01:14:30.180
What was happening in that environment is, there was a transition where I kind of got moved around with a corporate restructure and I really didn't like who I was working for as a leader to the extent where I was having panic attacks.

01:14:30.180 --> 01:14:31.831
And there's lots of reasons behind that.

01:14:32.671 --> 01:14:35.820
Um, but I just wasn't feeling good and I didn't even know that at the time.

01:14:35.850 --> 01:14:40.081
I was just so focused on doing whatever's necessary to hit the mark.

01:14:40.081 --> 01:14:41.041
But, um.

01:14:42.301 --> 01:14:56.100
One of my, the crux of why I left and, and'cause I was agonizing over it and whether I should do it or not, was if I look back, I will always regret not knowing if I could have made it.

01:14:56.430 --> 01:14:56.610
Hmm.

01:14:57.720 --> 01:14:59.070
You know, I'll always regret that.

01:14:59.161 --> 01:14:59.430
Were they

01:14:59.430 --> 01:15:00.150
calling on you?

01:15:00.155 --> 01:15:00.275
Other

01:15:01.676 --> 01:15:04.315
opportunities and, I mean, I had other, I had other, I had other opportunities.

01:15:04.315 --> 01:15:04.685
So you were kind of

01:15:04.685 --> 01:15:06.661
annoyed with your boss ever since he started there?

01:15:06.666 --> 01:15:06.716
Kind.

01:15:06.935 --> 01:15:07.711
It was, I'll say

01:15:07.711 --> 01:15:09.631
this, it was more than annoyance.

01:15:10.020 --> 01:15:11.461
I, I think, yeah.

01:15:11.490 --> 01:15:13.740
In, in, in the clinical sense.

01:15:14.161 --> 01:15:15.480
He did not have a conscience.

01:15:15.511 --> 01:15:15.871
Oh boy.

01:15:15.871 --> 01:15:20.076
Meaning, like, there was some, like I, and I mean this legit, you know, there's lots of stuff like integrity

01:15:20.095 --> 01:15:21.451
wasn't one of his high marks, like

01:15:21.451 --> 01:15:22.411
Machiavellian.

01:15:22.530 --> 01:15:22.831
Oh damn.

01:15:22.831 --> 01:15:25.650
Like I, I mean, and, and he, he's, he was fired like two years.

01:15:25.860 --> 01:15:26.640
Like this would come like just,

01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:29.280
not just ethically unaware, but like almost cruel.

01:15:29.341 --> 01:15:36.756
Like I, I mean this in the clinical sense that I don't believe he had a conscience and he would use people like legit narcissistic personality disorder.

01:15:36.855 --> 01:15:39.150
And I say this like we all narcissistic traits.

01:15:39.541 --> 01:15:40.501
He had an issue.

01:15:41.011 --> 01:15:56.070
Um, everybody else, I think fondly of there, despite their faults, um, and we all have them that said, so, so what, what ultimately kind of was the thing that tipped me over was if I try this and I fail, at least I'll know.

01:15:56.970 --> 01:15:58.591
Like I can always come back to this.

01:15:58.591 --> 01:15:59.051
Yeah, yeah.

01:15:59.190 --> 01:16:07.501
And so I, I, because you knew you were gonna go into some suffering there, there's a little bit, there's voluntary suffering a little bit because every first suffering happens regardless.

01:16:07.501 --> 01:16:12.001
But it's like you want to, you want to try to reach for the highest expression of what you're, you know.

01:16:12.001 --> 01:16:16.440
And in this instance I was like, man, there was a lot of stuff going on that I didn't like, I thought was unethical.

01:16:16.440 --> 01:16:17.520
Just with this one Perth.

01:16:17.640 --> 01:16:27.511
I was like, man, I've always believed that it was possible to serve other people, do business, et cetera, and do it within a framework that I will say better exemplified my virtues.

01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:30.060
And like, I was being told that that wasn't the case.

01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:34.890
And I was like, man, I feel like I'm gonna, if I stay here, I'm gonna have to compromise.

01:16:35.701 --> 01:16:36.631
I don't want to do that.

01:16:36.631 --> 01:16:40.381
I would rather not compromise, go and fail, and then know actually I was wrong.

01:16:40.501 --> 01:16:40.831
Yeah.

01:16:40.890 --> 01:16:47.341
And then I can come back to this and that was a, like, that was a key decision point for me.

01:16:47.341 --> 01:16:52.140
And so I was like, you know, I'd, I'd rather go and try and see if it's possible to do business a certain way.

01:16:53.025 --> 01:16:54.855
And if I fail, no problem.

01:16:55.305 --> 01:16:56.926
Um, but I'll always regret not trying.

01:16:57.076 --> 01:16:57.886
Yeah, I dig it.

01:16:58.485 --> 01:17:10.275
Um, so for listeners out there that are digging this conversation, by the way, uh, Clint is gonna come on about once a quarter ish and we're gonna try to do some more topical focus instead of just a rambling reintroduction of

01:17:10.456 --> 01:17:12.060
this is relationship development right here.

01:17:12.060 --> 01:17:15.586
This here we're trying to see like, hey, uh, you get to know us, et cetera.

01:17:15.826 --> 01:17:17.115
That's why we drank so much bourbon.

01:17:17.115 --> 01:17:17.985
Oh, I guess, yeah.

01:17:17.985 --> 01:17:18.225
And,

01:17:18.466 --> 01:17:24.945
uh, part of that relationship development is you're gonna be the first guest to, uh, taste the Infinity bottle.

01:17:25.095 --> 01:17:25.845
Oh gosh.

01:17:25.876 --> 01:17:33.555
Uh, I offered it to Roxy Tins, uh, yester a couple days ago and she politely declined me.

01:17:33.855 --> 01:17:37.065
And, uh, it wasn't going yet before the other one.

01:17:37.065 --> 01:17:39.586
So you can just set that bottle or that glass right there.

01:17:39.735 --> 01:17:42.376
It'll be a, not a half a wee Dr.

01:17:42.916 --> 01:17:43.815
A half a, a half a weed.

01:17:43.815 --> 01:17:43.876
Okay.

01:17:43.876 --> 01:17:44.836
Half a weed Dr.

01:17:45.796 --> 01:17:46.666
In this case.

01:17:47.655 --> 01:17:57.166
So I, I, this is like two parts bourbon, one part high rye whiskey, maybe some Irish whiskey and some tequila.

01:17:57.765 --> 01:17:58.305
Oh my gosh.

01:17:58.305 --> 01:18:10.155
Um, so everything that goes through the podcast, uh, studio, we're just gonna pour like one shot into the infinity bottle and yeah, I think it probably will stay full enough.

01:18:10.155 --> 01:18:15.225
I don't know if I need to go two shots, we'll increase the measure, but I preloaded it here.

01:18:15.975 --> 01:18:19.905
So now tasting notes on the Infinity bourbon.

01:18:22.216 --> 01:18:23.386
Ooh, it's a little hot.

01:18:30.405 --> 01:18:31.515
I mean, that's not terrible.

01:18:31.515 --> 01:18:31.860
It's surpris of the good.

01:18:32.506 --> 01:18:32.956
That's weird.

01:18:34.095 --> 01:18:36.376
God, I was, I was prepared for the worst here.

01:18:36.466 --> 01:18:38.355
Um, it does smell hot, that's for sure.

01:18:38.355 --> 01:18:39.286
I was like, oh boy.

01:18:40.365 --> 01:18:41.206
Um, and it's hard to.

01:18:41.775 --> 01:18:45.046
Like, it's clearly not bourbon and clearly not tequila.

01:18:45.315 --> 01:18:45.435
Mm-hmm.

01:18:45.735 --> 01:18:47.176
It's, it's ambiguous.

01:18:47.416 --> 01:18:48.076
It's pat.

01:18:50.475 --> 01:18:50.775
Sorry.

01:18:50.775 --> 01:18:52.275
That's probably not funny anymore.

01:18:52.275 --> 01:18:52.386
Well, there's that,

01:18:53.326 --> 01:18:58.966
there's, there is, there's that like, like subtle anejo flavor, like towards the end.

01:18:58.966 --> 01:18:59.305
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:59.326 --> 01:19:01.966
Um, ah, that's interesting.

01:19:02.685 --> 01:19:02.865
Hmm.

01:19:04.485 --> 01:19:07.876
If I was to chart that out, it would be like all over the place.

01:19:08.805 --> 01:19:12.435
There's, there's, there's vol, there's integrated volatility with this one.

01:19:12.496 --> 01:19:12.796
Yeah.

01:19:12.826 --> 01:19:13.546
It's interesting.

01:19:13.546 --> 01:19:14.115
I'll say that.

01:19:14.206 --> 01:19:14.536
Yeah.

01:19:15.105 --> 01:19:22.065
So something we've added to the podcast since last time you were on is the random ask question, ping pong ball challenge.

01:19:22.095 --> 01:19:22.246
Mm-hmm.

01:19:25.036 --> 01:19:25.636
Oh, cool.

01:19:26.296 --> 01:19:26.536
So you're

01:19:26.536 --> 01:19:31.725
gonna draw three of these, by the way, for the listeners listening, I, I'm excited for your hot ones

01:19:31.966 --> 01:19:32.416
version.

01:19:32.416 --> 01:19:33.911
Oh yeah, it's gonna, I'm pumping up about that coming up.

01:19:33.911 --> 01:19:34.876
I should do a commercial about that.

01:19:34.876 --> 01:19:35.055
Yeah.

01:19:35.055 --> 01:19:35.926
So we're.

01:19:36.525 --> 01:19:49.395
All seven of the Fort Collins mayoral candidates are going to be coming into the studio for bonus episodes, uh, and in partnership with, uh, old Town Spice Shop and Matador.

01:19:50.115 --> 01:19:51.826
Um, and I love Matador, by the way.

01:19:51.826 --> 01:19:52.515
Story path.

01:19:52.935 --> 01:19:59.326
Uh, we're going to do a series of hot one style hot Saucey chicken nugs.

01:19:59.326 --> 01:20:03.945
We're not, we're gonna, we're doing hot nugs, uh, is what we're doing instead of hot ones.

01:20:03.945 --> 01:20:04.036
Nice.

01:20:04.036 --> 01:20:05.956
Just so we avoid copyright infringement.

01:20:06.015 --> 01:20:06.225
Oh gosh.

01:20:06.225 --> 01:20:06.826
Stuff like that.

01:20:06.826 --> 01:20:07.845
Lawsuits, all that.

01:20:07.966 --> 01:20:08.265
Sure.

01:20:08.506 --> 01:20:12.166
Uh, so hot Nugs plus Paul's already got chicken and nugget form.

01:20:12.225 --> 01:20:12.615
Nice.

01:20:12.645 --> 01:20:14.626
And we don't have to deal with wings and screwing around.

01:20:14.805 --> 01:20:15.376
This is an

01:20:15.376 --> 01:20:15.855
aside.

01:20:16.006 --> 01:20:17.055
Do you have a relationship with him?

01:20:17.055 --> 01:20:17.775
With Matador?

01:20:18.376 --> 01:20:19.216
Yeah, a little bit.

01:20:19.275 --> 01:20:19.636
Okay.

01:20:19.695 --> 01:20:22.725
Yeah, I've been, not much, their, their burritos are great.

01:20:22.725 --> 01:20:28.065
I don't, I don't have like a relationship with the owner or whatever, but like I've gotten to know some of their staff when I'm in there.

01:20:28.065 --> 01:20:28.095
Okay.

01:20:28.126 --> 01:20:29.086
Semi regularly.

01:20:29.145 --> 01:20:29.475
Yeah.

01:20:29.475 --> 01:20:29.485
Yeah.

01:20:29.746 --> 01:20:32.865
The character of the staff, people that are on the front line.

01:20:32.865 --> 01:20:34.036
There's some of the stories I've heard.

01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:37.411
S not like normal service professionals.

01:20:37.470 --> 01:20:37.680
Okay.

01:20:37.801 --> 01:20:41.041
Uh, there's, I, I just gotta say, shout out to Matador.

01:20:41.041 --> 01:20:48.930
The food's great and like the people that I've interacted with there, especially in those morning shifts, are like very unique and character based human beings.

01:20:48.930 --> 01:20:51.326
Like I've heard some really incredible things there, so that's cool.

01:20:51.326 --> 01:20:52.171
So I'm grateful for that.

01:20:52.261 --> 01:20:55.171
I used to work across the street, kitty corner.

01:20:55.350 --> 01:20:55.650
Mm.

01:20:55.650 --> 01:20:58.650
And we'd go there every Wednesday and regularly beyond that.

01:20:58.711 --> 01:20:58.740
Mm.

01:20:58.740 --> 01:20:59.490
Just about.

01:20:59.551 --> 01:21:02.610
Um, and so it's been 11 years.

01:21:02.610 --> 01:21:03.301
Sorry Paul.

01:21:03.301 --> 01:21:05.881
You're just too far away now.

01:21:06.150 --> 01:21:06.480
Sure.

01:21:06.511 --> 01:21:07.980
Uh, but that doesn't surprise me at all.

01:21:08.070 --> 01:21:11.251
'cause he's a character and a, a great business leader.

01:21:11.400 --> 01:21:11.701
Mm.

01:21:11.911 --> 01:21:18.060
So, um, the thing here now is, and, uh, Clint's going to, um.

01:21:18.751 --> 01:21:18.961
What?

01:21:18.961 --> 01:21:22.621
He's gonna give you a$25 gift card to your favorite restaurant.

01:21:22.626 --> 01:21:22.916
Sure.

01:21:22.916 --> 01:21:25.155
If you, uh, uh, whatever.

01:21:25.155 --> 01:21:25.395
Sure.

01:21:25.466 --> 01:21:26.461
Yeah, sure.

01:21:27.091 --> 01:21:27.421
Why not?

01:21:27.810 --> 01:21:29.041
He'll buy you lunch actually.

01:21:29.070 --> 01:21:29.251
Yeah.

01:21:29.251 --> 01:21:29.676
I'll buy you lunch.

01:21:29.685 --> 01:21:33.961
He'll give you a free, like, uh, 30 minute financial consult.

01:21:34.110 --> 01:21:35.341
If you, uh, we can

01:21:35.341 --> 01:21:36.570
sit down and have a cup of coffee.

01:21:36.690 --> 01:21:37.261
I'll try to help you out.

01:21:37.261 --> 01:21:38.011
He's available to you?

01:21:38.131 --> 01:21:38.400
Yeah.

01:21:39.301 --> 01:21:39.751
Pick three.

01:21:42.211 --> 01:21:42.600
Okay.

01:21:42.780 --> 01:21:43.381
I got three.

01:21:44.490 --> 01:21:44.730
Whoop.

01:21:44.820 --> 01:21:45.091
Okay.

01:21:45.301 --> 01:21:46.740
Oh, I got, can you find it?

01:21:48.661 --> 01:21:48.930
Okay.

01:21:48.930 --> 01:21:49.470
It didn't get away.

01:21:50.371 --> 01:21:52.230
You can give those to me in any order.

01:21:52.350 --> 01:21:58.291
And then the, the, what I decide is that answer that somebody's gotta listen to the podcast is what's gonna win them.

01:21:58.291 --> 01:22:00.570
The, uh, lunch on Clint.

01:22:01.171 --> 01:22:01.650
Perfect.

01:22:01.650 --> 01:22:02.371
And wisdom.

01:22:02.881 --> 01:22:04.621
Let's do a cup of coffee at Harbinger.

01:22:04.621 --> 01:22:04.650
Okay.

01:22:04.711 --> 01:22:05.070
I'm there

01:22:05.070 --> 01:22:06.720
most days between seven and eight.

01:22:06.900 --> 01:22:07.621
Um, I like

01:22:07.621 --> 01:22:09.331
it on South side, I guess.

01:22:09.421 --> 01:22:10.980
Uh, near Council Tree.

01:22:11.041 --> 01:22:11.461
Yeah.

01:22:11.581 --> 01:22:13.230
Uh, 10, 11 and seven.

01:22:13.350 --> 01:22:13.560
10.

01:22:13.560 --> 01:22:14.371
11 and seven.

01:22:17.131 --> 01:22:17.610
10.

01:22:17.640 --> 01:22:22.110
What's a hobby or skill you've always wanted to pick up but haven't yet?

01:22:22.621 --> 01:22:24.961
Uh, I admire it.

01:22:24.961 --> 01:22:34.411
I don't know that I, if I wanted to pick it up, I would probably dedicate more time right now, but, uh, my wife's got a green thumb and I really admire her ability to grow plants.

01:22:34.411 --> 01:22:47.280
Like, it's just not like she maintains them consistently, not perfectly, et cetera, but I think that like people that can do that and sort of cultivate and nourish something that way, grow a garden, et cetera, I admire it.

01:22:47.400 --> 01:22:48.421
I think it's fantastic.

01:22:48.451 --> 01:22:48.570
Well,

01:22:48.570 --> 01:22:48.930
thank you.

01:22:49.051 --> 01:22:49.140
Mm-hmm.

01:22:49.740 --> 01:22:50.820
I grew a tomato this year.

01:22:50.820 --> 01:22:52.680
That was like 20 ounces, I'm pretty sure.

01:22:52.711 --> 01:22:53.251
Nice.

01:22:53.280 --> 01:22:53.701
Yeah.

01:22:53.850 --> 01:22:56.070
Uh, although my tomato garden is kind of a mess.

01:22:56.070 --> 01:22:58.081
I, my pumpkins got all into it.

01:22:58.081 --> 01:22:58.921
It's, it, yeah.

01:22:58.921 --> 01:22:59.251
Anyway.

01:22:59.371 --> 01:22:59.820
Awesome.

01:22:59.850 --> 01:23:00.511
It's a long story.

01:23:00.661 --> 01:23:00.751
Mm-hmm.

01:23:01.051 --> 01:23:02.310
That was 10, 11.

01:23:03.631 --> 01:23:03.961
Yeah.

01:23:03.961 --> 01:23:04.411
11.

01:23:04.411 --> 01:23:04.650
Yep.

01:23:04.650 --> 01:23:05.251
10, 11.

01:23:05.251 --> 01:23:06.180
Mm-hmm.

01:23:06.211 --> 01:23:06.841
11.

01:23:07.591 --> 01:23:12.360
If you could time travel, would you visit the past or future?

01:23:12.900 --> 01:23:14.490
What period and why,

01:23:19.951 --> 01:23:20.820
and you can never come back.

01:23:20.820 --> 01:23:22.801
Well, I'm just, oh, I can't come back.

01:23:23.400 --> 01:23:25.320
Oh, that changes my answer.

01:23:25.530 --> 01:23:27.145
We didn't say that before, but, okay.

01:23:27.150 --> 01:23:27.421
Okay.

01:23:27.421 --> 01:23:30.270
Well, here's my initial answer.

01:23:30.270 --> 01:23:31.411
I'm just gonna go with what I thought.

01:23:31.411 --> 01:23:31.501
Sure.

01:23:31.951 --> 01:23:40.591
So my first thought was, I'd love to see my girls 20 years from now and, and thank them for being my kids and say, are, invest

01:23:40.591 --> 01:23:41.220
in this?

01:23:41.220 --> 01:23:41.490
Nope.

01:23:41.761 --> 01:23:42.060
Nope.

01:23:42.065 --> 01:23:42.265
Just kidding.

01:23:42.331 --> 01:23:42.631
Nope.

01:23:42.631 --> 01:23:43.506
Honestly, it would,

01:23:43.511 --> 01:23:48.541
it would be, are there any places where you think I could have been a better father that you remember?

01:23:48.631 --> 01:23:49.680
And I would love

01:23:49.770 --> 01:23:51.661
Oh, and then you're gonna come back and like, and do

01:23:51.661 --> 01:23:51.810
that.

01:23:51.810 --> 01:23:52.291
Fix that.

01:23:52.350 --> 01:23:52.650
Yep.

01:23:52.890 --> 01:23:53.581
That feels like, would

01:23:53.581 --> 01:23:55.350
they know though?

01:23:55.440 --> 01:23:55.831
I don't know.

01:23:56.280 --> 01:23:56.701
I don't know.

01:23:57.150 --> 01:23:59.581
But I would love, I would love to know them in the future, first of all.

01:23:59.581 --> 01:23:59.791
Yeah.

01:24:00.001 --> 01:24:11.190
Like, like, like let's say take at age 50 or whatever, like after I'm gone, the ability to visit them after I'm gone and be like, Hey, what I, I would just love to know them in the future.

01:24:11.565 --> 01:24:15.676
After I like, that would be a really neat gift for them and it would be a neat gift for me.

01:24:16.006 --> 01:24:16.336
Yeah.

01:24:16.546 --> 01:24:20.416
Like imagine me knowing them at like 70, what if it created mental illness in them?

01:24:20.416 --> 01:24:20.805
They're like,

01:24:20.865 --> 01:24:21.405
oh shit.

01:24:21.405 --> 01:24:23.626
I've forbid dad was a time traveler after all.

01:24:23.626 --> 01:24:23.775
Okay.

01:24:23.775 --> 01:24:24.136
So with,

01:24:24.945 --> 01:24:30.975
with the asterisk that assuming that it wouldn't harm them, but if I could do that in a way that would nourish them, I would do that.

01:24:31.485 --> 01:24:34.935
I, uh, we've got this new exchange student, Sarah mm-hmm.

01:24:35.176 --> 01:24:36.405
Who's 16.

01:24:36.405 --> 01:24:36.735
Right.

01:24:36.735 --> 01:24:39.676
So very communicative, very grown up for a young lady.

01:24:39.765 --> 01:24:39.855
Mm-hmm.

01:24:40.365 --> 01:24:43.395
And me and Jill are like, what do you need more?

01:24:43.395 --> 01:24:44.235
What are we doing wrong?

01:24:44.235 --> 01:24:46.065
And, and she doesn't really know.

01:24:46.216 --> 01:24:46.515
Sure.

01:24:46.515 --> 01:24:46.786
Right.

01:24:46.786 --> 01:24:47.895
It's her first time here.

01:24:47.895 --> 01:24:49.216
And kind of same for your girls.

01:24:49.216 --> 01:24:49.485
So.

01:24:49.485 --> 01:24:49.935
Sure.

01:24:50.265 --> 01:24:52.876
I guess I would say that's great and just do the best you can now.

01:24:52.966 --> 01:24:53.206
Yeah.

01:24:53.206 --> 01:24:54.105
It, it would be neat.

01:24:54.105 --> 01:25:00.855
It would be neat to, to see them and enjoy them after I had already gone as a gift for them, but also a gift for me.

01:25:01.006 --> 01:25:01.246
Yeah.

01:25:01.246 --> 01:25:01.490
So we'll say that.

01:25:01.490 --> 01:25:01.770
Okay.

01:25:01.770 --> 01:25:01.890
Alright.

01:25:02.716 --> 01:25:03.195
I take that?

01:25:03.345 --> 01:25:03.676
Yeah.

01:25:04.155 --> 01:25:06.706
You have two, two names.

01:25:06.886 --> 01:25:07.515
Carna and

01:25:07.515 --> 01:25:08.025
Freya.

01:25:08.296 --> 01:25:09.405
Which one do you love more?

01:25:09.826 --> 01:25:10.515
I love'em both.

01:25:10.515 --> 01:25:11.296
They're so different.

01:25:12.320 --> 01:25:14.416
I, I tell them Who loves you more?

01:25:14.685 --> 01:25:15.076
Mm.

01:25:15.076 --> 01:25:17.086
They both love me in their, in their own way.

01:25:17.086 --> 01:25:20.206
But what I would say is, I, I've had this conversation with them actually.

01:25:20.206 --> 01:25:23.685
'cause my oldest one's very verbally expressive and more emotionally expressive.

01:25:24.105 --> 01:25:27.225
And sometimes she'll be like, oh, you know, you're not, not fair.

01:25:27.225 --> 01:25:28.246
You know, it's the thing right now.

01:25:28.246 --> 01:25:29.655
And I'm like, you're right.

01:25:29.716 --> 01:25:31.275
Like, I love you both differently.

01:25:31.966 --> 01:25:36.916
I, it's impossible for me to love you equally, but I will do my best to love you in the ways that you need to be loved.

01:25:37.305 --> 01:25:41.115
'cause I think that's like the hardest thing is a parent they each need loved in different ways.

01:25:41.145 --> 01:25:41.326
Right?

01:25:41.326 --> 01:25:41.475
Like

01:25:41.475 --> 01:25:43.636
that's the, the love languages thing Right.

01:25:43.666 --> 01:25:44.445
From way back.

01:25:44.445 --> 01:25:48.280
And it applies in every kind of type of relationship in some ways.

01:25:48.280 --> 01:25:48.520
Yeah.

01:25:48.586 --> 01:25:50.685
I mean, one of the things that I've had conversation, yeah.

01:25:50.716 --> 01:25:53.836
'cause she's we're able to have deep conversations with both of'em.

01:25:53.895 --> 01:25:55.996
Uh, for, you know, five and seven.

01:25:55.996 --> 01:26:00.855
But, you know, one of the things I've thanked her for is like, she was our first born, right?

01:26:00.855 --> 01:26:05.326
So that means every mistake that I make as a parent, I'm usually gonna make on her first.

01:26:06.046 --> 01:26:07.305
Thanks for the grace.

01:26:07.456 --> 01:26:07.546
Mm-hmm.

01:26:07.786 --> 01:26:08.865
And the ability to learn with you.

01:26:08.865 --> 01:26:13.815
And I've told her that and I was like, you know,'cause we'll talk about that sometimes to the extent we can at seven.

01:26:13.905 --> 01:26:16.456
So I think, but I, I, my five year old's great too.

01:26:16.456 --> 01:26:17.296
She's just different.

01:26:17.296 --> 01:26:19.246
Like, she's just different.

01:26:19.246 --> 01:26:22.065
She's like all, all gas, no breaks.

01:26:22.216 --> 01:26:26.086
So, uh, which is more my style, so that

01:26:26.145 --> 01:26:27.916
my wife would say that about me for sure too.

01:26:27.916 --> 01:26:28.216
Yeah.

01:26:28.426 --> 01:26:28.725
Yep.

01:26:29.176 --> 01:26:30.706
Um, what was that third question?

01:26:31.155 --> 01:26:33.676
Uh, I said 7, 10, 11.

01:26:33.680 --> 01:26:34.180
So seven.

01:26:34.456 --> 01:26:36.286
So I missed the seven the first time around.

01:26:36.286 --> 01:26:36.345
Yeah.

01:26:38.326 --> 01:26:39.195
Hmm.

01:26:39.345 --> 01:26:43.275
I'm not sure if I want to ask you that one because we've kind of brushed against that already.

01:26:43.395 --> 01:26:43.695
All right.

01:26:43.695 --> 01:26:44.355
You pick one.

01:26:44.565 --> 01:26:46.336
I'm gonna go up to six.

01:26:47.176 --> 01:26:47.595
Okay.

01:26:48.286 --> 01:26:52.155
If you could only eat one color of food for the rest of your life.

01:26:52.770 --> 01:26:53.671
What color would it be?

01:26:53.820 --> 01:26:55.171
One color of food.

01:26:55.171 --> 01:26:56.070
One color.

01:26:57.720 --> 01:26:59.400
Red and green are fairly popular.

01:26:59.400 --> 01:27:00.030
Brown.

01:27:00.211 --> 01:27:04.440
Yeah, I was gonna say red, but only because that includes, you go carnivore.

01:27:04.440 --> 01:27:06.060
Diet includes Jordan Peterson's, you're here.

01:27:06.270 --> 01:27:06.451
Include?

01:27:06.451 --> 01:27:07.350
Well, that, well no, no.

01:27:07.680 --> 01:27:13.291
Um, I mean that includes strawberries, includes apples, it includes potatoes, it includes steak.

01:27:13.291 --> 01:27:13.980
It includes.

01:27:14.400 --> 01:27:14.911
Fish.

01:27:14.970 --> 01:27:17.041
So there's a lot of Yeah, that's where

01:27:17.041 --> 01:27:17.190
my

01:27:17.190 --> 01:27:17.490
mind

01:27:17.490 --> 01:27:17.791
went.

01:27:18.091 --> 01:27:18.631
All right.

01:27:18.645 --> 01:27:19.086
I dig it.

01:27:19.086 --> 01:27:19.275
Yeah, I dig it.

01:27:20.280 --> 01:27:23.911
Um, do you want to tell a crazy story that you didn't tell last time?

01:27:23.911 --> 01:27:26.461
Because we normally have a crazy story at the end of the show.

01:28:09.856 --> 01:28:12.167
You know, my life's, I, I'm pretty forthright.

01:28:12.167 --> 01:28:14.327
I think I told some fairly crazy ones.

01:28:14.386 --> 01:28:17.806
Um, I guess I just wanna say if you've made it this far, thank you.

01:28:18.407 --> 01:28:23.537
Um, and please, if there's things that you'd like to hear us talk more, explore more, just let us know.

01:28:23.596 --> 01:28:30.976
Like, I, I'm, I, I wish there was someone in, I always imagine the audience or listener being the third person be like, what do you think?

01:28:31.006 --> 01:28:32.296
What do you want to learn more about?

01:28:32.537 --> 01:28:33.346
No crazy story.

01:28:33.346 --> 01:28:34.037
Unless you want to hear one.

01:28:34.277 --> 01:28:34.712
I'm happy to tell.

01:28:34.712 --> 01:28:36.976
Do you have any, well, do you have any near death experiences?

01:28:37.546 --> 01:28:38.417
Uh, no.

01:28:38.837 --> 01:28:40.426
Don't, but okay.

01:28:40.516 --> 01:28:47.926
Here, here's a fun, here's, here's, I don't know this, this is the most random thing, and I've had a few random conversations about this lately.

01:28:47.926 --> 01:28:51.646
So, um, I, uh.

01:28:52.726 --> 01:29:05.296
Last year, and you know, over the last decade of my life, I've been fortunate enough to use different medicines to enhance neuroplasticity, ketamine being one of them, and it's legal, et cetera, in Northern Colorado or in Colorado.

01:29:05.386 --> 01:29:09.737
Um, and, you know, you were joking earlier, like, hey, Colorado mushrooms, et cetera.

01:29:10.216 --> 01:29:13.306
Um, but I I, for anybody out there that's to enhance

01:29:13.306 --> 01:29:15.077
neuroplasticity, I didn't really

01:29:15.346 --> 01:29:15.707
Yeah.

01:29:15.766 --> 01:29:16.516
Recognize that.

01:29:16.516 --> 01:29:24.497
So, so for, for, um, I'm not a scientist in this regard, but what I would say is, um, I'll give an example.

01:29:24.497 --> 01:29:39.886
So like, ketamine's been shown to be a very effective medicine for people that are coping with, like, let's say you come back from war, um, or you've, you've served our country in that way and you have PTSD, um, when trauma's formed it, it literally imprints on your brain differently.

01:29:39.886 --> 01:29:44.782
It rewires your neural connection, hence the term trauma at a subconscious level, which means you can't just like.

01:29:46.021 --> 01:29:47.072
Think your way through it.

01:29:47.612 --> 01:29:55.082
Uh, like again, you get shifted into your animal, part of your brain, uh, and you can gradually like, heal that over time with traditional therapy modalities.

01:29:55.082 --> 01:29:55.652
That's great.

01:29:55.712 --> 01:29:59.192
And an accelerant for that process can be different types of medicines.

01:29:59.671 --> 01:30:03.662
Um, I've personally experienced the potency of using ketamine that way.

01:30:03.752 --> 01:30:06.721
Um, and, and there's other medicines like that.

01:30:06.721 --> 01:30:07.381
But I, yeah.

01:30:07.801 --> 01:30:14.492
Like when my dad passed away, I can't remember if we talked about this, but like, I, I used hallucinogenic mushrooms, not licensed, not therapeutic.

01:30:14.492 --> 01:30:21.511
And it was one of the more potent medicines to help me transform that as a catalyst to, to make meaning out of that experience.

01:30:21.511 --> 01:30:21.931
Oh, wow.

01:30:21.962 --> 01:30:22.652
As a, as a

01:30:22.652 --> 01:30:23.612
16-year-old.

01:30:23.942 --> 01:30:27.931
Have you, have you heard Rick Perry talking about ketamine?

01:30:28.021 --> 01:30:28.471
Mm-hmm.

01:30:28.681 --> 01:30:29.042
No.

01:30:29.101 --> 01:30:32.402
Um, he like former Texas governor, Rick Perry.

01:30:32.612 --> 01:30:33.002
Oh, wow.

01:30:33.002 --> 01:30:34.021
Like Bible Rick Perry.

01:30:34.021 --> 01:30:34.202
Yeah.

01:30:34.231 --> 01:30:34.261
Okay.

01:30:34.261 --> 01:30:37.591
Is a huge, I think he came on either Rogan or Lex Friedman.

01:30:37.622 --> 01:30:37.952
Wow.

01:30:38.731 --> 01:30:39.511
Or Tucker.

01:30:39.601 --> 01:30:39.931
Wow.

01:30:39.992 --> 01:30:41.822
At one of those, probably not Tucker.

01:30:41.881 --> 01:30:42.002
Yeah.

01:30:42.002 --> 01:30:43.681
There's a but to talk about That's great.

01:30:43.681 --> 01:30:43.742
Yeah.

01:30:43.742 --> 01:30:45.931
Ketamine with this other dude that's a big student of it.

01:30:45.931 --> 01:30:48.421
And mostly for, for Yeah.

01:30:48.421 --> 01:30:49.832
Healing from trauma purposes.

01:30:49.862 --> 01:30:51.271
Well, here and here's what I would say.

01:30:51.271 --> 01:30:54.992
So, um, anything can be abused.

01:30:55.577 --> 01:31:04.277
I do know that the, like there's, there's in my psychology background and some of this, like there's addictive reward mechanisms and the potency of that and stuff.

01:31:04.277 --> 01:31:15.856
Like if fentanyl and oxycodone are on one side where there's like high addictive potential and high high reward mechanisms to encourage that with withdrawal symptoms whose syn inject mushrooms are like the opposite.

01:31:16.042 --> 01:31:16.942
Of that curve.

01:31:17.452 --> 01:31:21.231
Uh, however, ketamine in certain forms can be very addictive.

01:31:21.442 --> 01:31:21.862
Is that right?

01:31:22.162 --> 01:31:23.242
Well, so here's what I was, it is,

01:31:23.332 --> 01:31:25.101
it's not a recreational experience, though.

01:31:25.131 --> 01:31:29.542
Some people, well, some people can choose to because like, it's so, oh,

01:31:29.542 --> 01:31:32.752
like if you hit it hard, then it's kind of taking you to a different place.

01:31:32.752 --> 01:31:32.962
So, so I'll

01:31:32.962 --> 01:31:36.921
caveat this with, I'm speaking way beyond my depth and not a medical practitioner.

01:31:36.981 --> 01:31:37.192
Okay.

01:31:37.252 --> 01:31:41.362
Speaking from personal experiences and places where it was prescribed under medical use.

01:31:41.362 --> 01:31:43.612
But, uh, and just my anecdotal experience.

01:31:43.612 --> 01:31:46.792
So I'm a person on the internet, you know, pretend I know nothing.

01:31:46.792 --> 01:31:56.931
But what I remember about this is that it was originally used through, uh, as like anesthesiology where it's like this for surgery and those kind of things, because it can numb pain.

01:31:57.231 --> 01:31:58.431
So I think if you have.

01:31:58.822 --> 01:31:59.811
Addictive potential.

01:31:59.811 --> 01:32:02.032
It helps you dissociate all these other kind of things.

01:32:02.032 --> 01:32:02.362
Right.

01:32:02.631 --> 01:32:07.072
But the benefit of that when you experience trauma is it lets you kinda look at it more objectively.

01:32:07.101 --> 01:32:07.162
Yeah.

01:32:07.671 --> 01:32:10.582
And like go up from the balcony, almost get away from the lizard brain.

01:32:10.971 --> 01:32:11.301
Yeah.

01:32:11.301 --> 01:32:13.131
And, and like both literally and figuratively.

01:32:13.131 --> 01:32:13.192
Yeah.

01:32:13.912 --> 01:32:24.981
And my personal experience with this is that, um, I mean I had three different experiences where I was guided by a therapist, um, in this process.

01:32:24.981 --> 01:32:26.332
It was different every time.

01:32:26.692 --> 01:32:34.372
And sometimes it was, I was completely conversational, like, just like this to the extent where I was like, am I even under the influence of this?

01:32:34.372 --> 01:32:34.381
Right.

01:32:34.381 --> 01:32:37.851
And like, I was like, and like even she was, wow, you're super conversation.

01:32:37.851 --> 01:32:39.292
It was actually she in this example.

01:32:39.322 --> 01:32:39.351
Okay.

01:32:39.351 --> 01:32:40.582
But, um.

01:32:41.596 --> 01:32:48.796
It's just, I, I would encourage people to, if they go down this path, work with a therapist first to guide you.

01:32:48.827 --> 01:32:55.186
'cause the neuroplastic, what that means essentially is that your brain is flexible to rewire patterns and learning processes.

01:32:55.186 --> 01:32:55.516
And if you're

01:32:55.516 --> 01:32:57.497
already doing, don't put a bunch of other crap in there.

01:32:57.497 --> 01:32:59.867
If you're already, let's call performance enhancement.

01:32:59.867 --> 01:33:00.527
Like if you're already,

01:33:00.527 --> 01:33:05.596
if you've already cultivated practices to guide performance enhancement, this can be an accelerant of that.

01:33:05.596 --> 01:33:07.247
Especially where there are hurdles that

01:33:07.247 --> 01:33:07.997
you mm-hmm.

01:33:08.237 --> 01:33:08.327
Are

01:33:08.327 --> 01:33:10.426
struggling to get over, want to get over faster,

01:33:10.457 --> 01:33:11.686
take a roadblock away.

01:33:11.716 --> 01:33:12.016
Yeah.

01:33:12.046 --> 01:33:16.457
But you don't want to jump over the roadblock and into a pit because you haven't really prepared the foundation.

01:33:16.546 --> 01:33:16.846
Yep.

01:33:16.846 --> 01:33:21.947
And in that environment, ketamine in this community is known as like the grandmother because it's very gentle.

01:33:22.006 --> 01:33:25.846
And what I'll say is my personal, I had very deeply personal experiences.

01:33:25.846 --> 01:33:27.886
Like it was crazy.

01:33:27.947 --> 01:33:31.096
Um, in the first time I went through, I, I feel like I got to.

01:33:31.487 --> 01:33:35.987
Connect with my grandfather, my dad, all this like really healthy masculine energy.

01:33:36.077 --> 01:33:36.407
Okay.

01:33:36.466 --> 01:33:46.426
And my personal background, I don't really have, you know, outside of an older, some older brothers I have, I don't really have like a patriarch to rely on when I go through like deep life journey experiences.

01:33:46.457 --> 01:33:46.546
Sure.

01:33:46.546 --> 01:33:46.667
Yeah.

01:33:46.817 --> 01:33:49.817
And I feel like I've got to tap some of that source, which is a neat thing.

01:33:49.817 --> 01:34:05.117
But my encouragement would be, um, if you go down this route, connect with like a therapist or someone that's licensed with, they'll guide you and like, don't let the perception of these things or like the social stigma get away from you evaluating these if the path that you're on.

01:34:05.537 --> 01:34:07.396
You end up getting connected and going out.

01:34:07.396 --> 01:34:08.356
Resource yourself.

01:34:08.356 --> 01:34:09.976
Investigate these resources.

01:34:10.006 --> 01:34:10.127
Yep.

01:34:10.277 --> 01:34:14.327
Don't let societies', uh, judgment Yeah.

01:34:14.327 --> 01:34:14.777
Or anybody

01:34:14.777 --> 01:34:15.917
else's judgment of you.

01:34:15.976 --> 01:34:18.377
Like, I mean, especially if you're in an environment where it's legal.

01:34:18.377 --> 01:34:18.436
Yeah.

01:34:18.466 --> 01:34:21.197
Like there is in Colorado and a prescribed environment.

01:34:21.197 --> 01:34:22.817
Like there's a lot of resources out there.

01:34:23.087 --> 01:34:28.216
Here's a little, and John Hopkins actually has a approved protocol for this, so it's not like it's this woowoo thing.

01:34:28.216 --> 01:34:28.306
Right.

01:34:28.306 --> 01:34:30.497
There's, there's protocols and science behind it.

01:34:30.676 --> 01:34:30.976
So,

01:34:31.367 --> 01:34:31.606
cool.

01:34:31.756 --> 01:34:32.027
Yep.

01:34:33.271 --> 01:34:34.112
Purpose driven wealth.

01:34:34.231 --> 01:34:34.832
Clinton, Jasper.

01:34:35.881 --> 01:34:38.551
Really interesting young man with a sharp looking suit.

01:34:38.551 --> 01:34:39.481
Can you button that suit?

01:34:39.692 --> 01:34:41.282
Uh, I can, that spark coat.

01:34:41.282 --> 01:34:43.351
It looks like it's kind of designed to hang open.

01:34:43.412 --> 01:34:44.761
I think I can button it.

01:34:44.761 --> 01:34:46.742
Let me see if I can button it while sitting down.

01:34:46.891 --> 01:34:47.282
Yeah, I can.

01:34:47.282 --> 01:34:47.822
Oh yeah.

01:34:47.881 --> 01:34:48.362
Look at that.

01:34:48.362 --> 01:34:48.886
Yeah, look at that.

01:34:49.171 --> 01:34:49.981
That Taylor did it

01:34:49.981 --> 01:34:50.372
right?

01:34:50.372 --> 01:34:50.551
You

01:34:50.551 --> 01:34:50.822
did.

01:34:50.881 --> 01:34:50.942
Yeah.

01:34:50.942 --> 01:34:51.421
Good job.

01:34:51.421 --> 01:34:52.771
You would n it right too in the diet.

01:34:52.891 --> 01:34:53.101
Yeah.

01:34:53.372 --> 01:34:54.061
Yeah, exactly.

01:34:54.122 --> 01:34:55.591
Also a local business person.

01:34:55.591 --> 01:34:59.726
I won't mention them as a free prop, so you can ask them for a sponsor next time and we can mention that this person

01:34:59.837 --> 01:35:00.511
that made this.

01:35:00.572 --> 01:35:00.872
Yep.

01:35:00.962 --> 01:35:02.462
What, why don't you give him a shout out?

01:35:02.521 --> 01:35:03.152
Uh, I will.

01:35:03.152 --> 01:35:03.362
Okay.

01:35:03.362 --> 01:35:04.112
I wasn't sure.

01:35:04.442 --> 01:35:07.171
Bespoke Edge, uh, Ron, who owns this business?

01:35:07.171 --> 01:35:09.242
He, I think they had a, yeah, yeah.

01:35:09.271 --> 01:35:12.181
He's Ron with, so he should be part of like, I Thinker chapter probably.

01:35:12.181 --> 01:35:12.782
Tell me more about it.

01:35:13.261 --> 01:35:13.981
Uh, it was just great.

01:35:13.981 --> 01:35:19.141
Like, I mean, I met with him, um, I as through losing some of the weight and those kind of things.

01:35:19.171 --> 01:35:20.311
Um, yeah, all your shit didn't fit.

01:35:20.356 --> 01:35:21.587
Yeah, very true.

01:35:21.617 --> 01:35:29.056
And after like 12 months of consistency there, I was like, you know, I should probably get some new clothes and decided to get a couple of sport coats made.

01:35:29.056 --> 01:35:30.407
So I got a sport coat made.

01:35:30.466 --> 01:35:33.287
He actually made this shirt too, but I only bought this one shirt from him.

01:35:33.976 --> 01:35:34.186
Cool.

01:35:34.216 --> 01:35:38.237
The rest of the time I'm wearing like golf polos or performance polos, just'cause they're more comfortable.

01:35:38.596 --> 01:35:40.006
I tried to dress up for you, Kurt.

01:35:40.067 --> 01:35:42.317
I figured we were professionally dating on the podcast.

01:35:42.317 --> 01:35:44.056
Hide my tummy here a little bit better.

01:35:44.056 --> 01:35:45.317
So there, yeah, exactly.

01:35:45.322 --> 01:35:45.442
Hide it.

01:35:45.886 --> 01:35:49.817
He can make, he can make you feel like a million bucks and, and look really good.

01:35:49.817 --> 01:35:50.476
So Can he fix my keys?

01:35:50.476 --> 01:35:51.766
Actually fell next level.

01:35:51.766 --> 01:35:52.127
I really did.

01:35:52.652 --> 01:35:53.327
So, so funny.

01:35:53.356 --> 01:35:55.006
Sorry, as an aside, keep, we'll wrap this up.

01:35:55.006 --> 01:35:55.216
We're good.

01:35:55.216 --> 01:36:00.646
So,'cause I know your, your colleague here has to get out, but she does have a, a registra or what do they call it?

01:36:00.737 --> 01:36:01.966
And was it a reservation?

01:36:01.966 --> 01:36:02.237
Anna?

01:36:02.296 --> 01:36:02.657
Ava.

01:36:02.716 --> 01:36:03.136
Ava.

01:36:03.317 --> 01:36:03.646
Ava.

01:36:03.646 --> 01:36:04.006
Sorry.

01:36:04.006 --> 01:36:05.957
Ava, uh, thank you by the way, for helping us.

01:36:06.016 --> 01:36:08.237
Um, so funny story about this sport coat.

01:36:08.296 --> 01:36:13.337
I was having a conversation with Mark Torres a couple weeks ago, a fellow next level member.

01:36:13.601 --> 01:36:15.162
Business owner in the community, et cetera.

01:36:15.162 --> 01:36:15.942
Really neat guy.

01:36:16.212 --> 01:36:17.681
And he was like, Hey, nice sport coat.

01:36:17.712 --> 01:36:20.981
Do you know Ron now Ron Wagner, who's the owner of the, the spoke edge.

01:36:20.981 --> 01:36:22.511
And I was like, I did a double take.

01:36:22.511 --> 01:36:24.702
'cause I just thought it was like completely outta context.

01:36:24.702 --> 01:36:25.931
And I was like, wait, where do I know that name?

01:36:25.931 --> 01:36:26.351
He is like, I

01:36:26.351 --> 01:36:27.921
could tell that that's not a name brand.

01:36:27.921 --> 01:36:28.032
Well, he is.

01:36:28.481 --> 01:36:28.721
Hey.

01:36:28.721 --> 01:36:28.902
He's

01:36:28.902 --> 01:36:31.212
like, Ron just sold me the same sport coat.

01:36:31.271 --> 01:36:33.252
And I'm like, oh, that's so funny.

01:36:33.311 --> 01:36:39.971
And what's interesting is like, I I, I don't know, it, it was just kind of a funny, serendipitous thing, but Ron does a great job, so

01:36:39.976 --> 01:36:43.752
well shout out to Mark Torres for, um, being a Man of Culture.

01:36:43.931 --> 01:36:44.442
Amen.

01:36:44.442 --> 01:36:55.152
He, uh, the, the painting that I had commissioned for Drew, uh, was Mark's idea, not the artist, but he was like, how about some kind of a commission painting or something?

01:36:55.157 --> 01:36:55.436
Yeah.

01:36:55.511 --> 01:36:55.752
Yeah.

01:36:55.902 --> 01:36:57.162
So shout out to that.

01:36:57.162 --> 01:36:58.091
Shout out to Mark.

01:36:58.181 --> 01:36:58.692
Good man.

01:36:58.872 --> 01:36:59.561
Cheers.

01:36:59.622 --> 01:37:00.702
And thanks for being here.

01:37:00.942 --> 01:37:01.452
Thanks, man.

01:37:01.452 --> 01:37:02.141
Thanks for having me.