EXPERIENCE #222 | Focus, Innovation, and Customization with Murph McIver, Founder and Software Architect at Xeo Software

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In this episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, I welcome Murph MacGyver into the studio.

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Murph is the founder and software architect at ZEO Software and moved his family from Honolulu to Fort Collins in 2021.

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We discussed what brought them here, the unique attributes of Fort Collins and the vibrant business culture.

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Murph shares insights into his company's founding story and mission to help businesses automate and scale, especially those that have unique needs that off the shelf software cannot address.

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We delve into the complexities in the future of AI and software development emphasizing its potential, the level of playing field for custom software applications.

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The conversation transitions to personal reflections where MPH highlights his focus on lifestyle changes influenced by Dan Dani's book, the Power of Unwavering Focus, and his personal commitment to making significant life enhancements through the Power of concentrated thought I'm sure you'll enjoy as I did my conversation with Merck MacGyver.

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Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast.

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I'm here today with Murph Mc Iver, and Murph is the founder and software architect at.

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ZEO software.

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You got a nice hat too.

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I like that brand.

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Oh, thank you Kirk.

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Yeah.

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Um, thanks for being here.

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Thanks for sharing time.

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It's a pleasure to be here.

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So, um, we met each other, what about a year ago now?

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A year and a half, I forget.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Probably about that.

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Yeah.

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You, you, you offered to take me, show me around, uh, downtown.

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Yeah.

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Old town.

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We a nice walk.

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Yeah.

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And you were relatively new to town from Where did Yeah, so we moved from Honolulu.

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Oh, that's right.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, my wife retired from the military.

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I followed her around, uh, through her military career.

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So she retired.

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Yeah.

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And we could've lived anywhere in the world.

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I was like, New Zealand sounds neat to me, but she wanted to be closer to la.

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Okay.

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And, uh.

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We picked Fort Collins and I'm so glad we did.

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I love the, uh, the bike trails here.

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I feel like it's well governed.

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Yeah.

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Um, and the schools are just phenomenal.

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Why would, did she want to be close to LA for family reasons or?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Her family's there.

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Okay.

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Gotcha.

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Don't actually wanna live in la but she, she wanted to one short flight away, but I, I told her I'll leave anywhere you want baby, but not la I told her, you'll see your family more often if you live here in Fort Collins.

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'cause when you fly there, they'll be guar, they'll be guaranteed to see you.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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If you live there, you can go a whole year before you see it.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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That's the way life is sometimes.

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Well, that's cool.

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Well, welcome to Fort Collins.

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Glad for, it's always nice when interesting people move here and, and choose it from all the places, you know, that's where it gets that choice city kind of, it, I I, I felt tremendously welcome here.

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Yeah.

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And, and, uh, I, it's like a jerk free zone.

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I, I, you know, I've lived here for, for two and a half years, almost coming up on three years, and, and everybody's just so nice here.

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And I, I love the networking culture.

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Um, it, it, it.

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I, I wish networking was like this everywhere.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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People wanna uplift each other.

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Yeah.

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It's like when you get here, people're like, oh, how are you doing?

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Who are you doing?

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What are you up to?

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How can I help you?

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Exactly.

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Who can I introduce you to?

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So who, who can, who can I introduce you to?

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Like who do, who, what does ZE software do for who?

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So, um, ZEO software, we build custom business applications and we help businesses automate and scale.

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And so the, the, the key kind of businesses we're looking for are, uh, innovative businesses, businesses that are doing things a little differently.

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Okay.

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Uh, because when they're doing things differently, the Offthe Shelf software, uh, is not a great fit and we can, uh, build.

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Given that a hundred percent solution that where the software works, just like the business works.

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Mm.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then they're better able to scale the company.

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And that's where you see the huge ROI is when they're able to grow the company because they don't need to hire more people.

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Mm.

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Now is this like a ERP kind of solution or it depends, so they use normal QuickBooks and things like that, or?

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Yeah, so I think in, in the business world today, there's so much great off the shelf software from accounting to CRMs and, and all these other things.

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So we, but we can do custom software and so when I get a client, the first thing I do is sit down with them and understand what data is it they're working with.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then architect, uh, make sure I, I can architect the data and that enables me to, uh, deliver software that works just the way.

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Uh, the business works and, you know, it's funny, uh, but one of the things that we start off with, it seems so low tech, it's just a glossary.

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I can't tell you how many times I've come into a business, especially, you know, business has got a few people.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And different people in the business will use different words to talk about the exact same thing.

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Right.

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And so by starting off with the glossary, uh, and using that to build the database around the vocabulary and the language that the people already use, uh, when you get to the point where they see the software, they don't have any questions because it works the way they would expect it to work.

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Yeah.

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It is already used in the vocabulary.

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Interesting.

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Are these physical businesses a lot of times, like, um, you know, building things or selling widgets or services, or is it online clients more?

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Oh, it, uh, typically, yeah.

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Larger companies or generally service companies are, we, we find there's a lot more variability with service companies than with like manufacturing.

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Sure.

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So we, we tend to.

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We, we find a lot of our clients are, are in, you know, providing a service.

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Um, so like for, like, for example, one of our biggest clients is providing automotive service.

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They deliver, uh, automotive service to fleets.

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Okay.

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And they, they dispatch their trucks to the fleet parking lot at night when the fleet's not in use.

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Okay.

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So that the drivers can just focus on what they're doing when they, when they show up in the morning.

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Okay.

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And, uh, the software we wrote tracks all the vehicles, all the maintenance schedules.

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Okay.

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Um, uh, all the invoices that are being generated, we push those invoices into QuickBooks.

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Sure.

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Um, we tie into, uh, some off the shelf timecard software.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, um, because our system knows the, the, uh, cost of the parts that are going in the vehicle, we know the labor rates.

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Oh wow.

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And, uh, we can generate reports immediately after the shift to show exactly what the margin was on that shift.

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Oh, wow.

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And, and that's really where you get the big ROI.

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With these systems is the dashboard, right?

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Is having those real time performance metrics available to the managers Yep.

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So that they can react in real time to what's happening in their business.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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And if, if Joe's killing it out there, you can have Ask Joe, well how, how he's killing it so good.

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Right, exactly.

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And try to find more Joes or help Joe be a trainer or whatever.

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Interesting.

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So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

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Like there just isn't like a necessarily a process, you know, like it's a manufacturing company, then there's, you know, the raw materials comes in.

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We do this stuff to it, we sell it, but it's, it's a little more probably.

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Industry niche.

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And so there's softwares that are made for the manufacturing industry Exactly.

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That really fit.

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And we were talking about ai.

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I mean, I think, I think, uh, really AI is gonna have such a huge impact on the software industry.

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Sure.

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And what it's doing is it's driving the cost of developing software down.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because now coders are going to, uh, be seeing 10 and 20 times x productivity as they learn to implement these AI tools in mm-hmm.

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In their processes.

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And I'm really excited being a custom software developer because, well, I gotta tell you, for, for years, Kurt, I've always felt like I've been playing second fiddle to the SaaS companies because they're, you know, larger and it's a higher risk, higher reward.

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They just monthly subscription deal going right.

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And stuff.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Um, and, and, but now I think with custom software.

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Is gonna be in the ascendancy because the reason people go to SaaS is because the cost is lower.

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Yeah.

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Not because it's better.

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'cause they're selling so many copies.

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They're selling so many copies.

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Right.

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And it takes, it costs them pennies to, to start up a new client on the software that already exists.

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Yeah.

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But when you can rapidly develop custom software at a lower price point, right.

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You get a much better fit.

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Oh, I bet.

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In the app world and stuff too, like it used to be, if you wanted somebody to build you an app for your business, whatever that is, it would be a couple hundred thousand dollars.

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Exactly.

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Or maybe a million.

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Just depends how things go.

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Right.

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How many things you wanted to do.

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But now that could be.

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30 grand or something like that.

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Exactly.

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Right.

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For exactly right.

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Huh.

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And that, that's what I'm really excited towards is, is I'm really pushing my company towards, uh, uh, the concept of mass customization, which I first heard from Bill Gates back in like 95 mm.

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His book The Road Ahead.

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He talked about how, um, the ability to, he was using the example, I think in, in, in terms of jeans or something like that, right?

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Where you could like, take the measurement, send it off to a factory, right?

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And if they're automated enough, you could get, uh, you know, a pair of jeans doesn't cost any more than any other pair of jeans, but they're made just for you in terms of the color.

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And, and maybe, you know, other aspects makes my butt look what I bend over.

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So, um, but now I think we have the opportunity to really, uh, complete mass customization, uh, with custom software.

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Hmm.

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Because the, because the cost of the software is going down, we can really, uh, basically set up a factory that is gonna enable us to rapidly deliver custom software.

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So how do you, you have a mostly overseas team, is that Yeah, a hundred percent.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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All my employees are, and I'm the bot India.

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Okay.

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Oh, all in one place.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so these are long-term employees, most of'em and stuff.

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Are they, how do you equip them to use these AI tools to, you know, it, it's a, it's a challenge to deliver value.

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Yeah.

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It's a challenge.

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The, uh, the culture over there is not as innovative as, as the us.

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Okay.

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And, and, um, in a way I think that really helps me because I'm an American manager managing these Indian employees.

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So, um, I feel like we get the best of both worlds.

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But, um, but, but basically we're, uh.

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Buying training materials.

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Right.

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And a matter of fact, just yesterday, boot, you have time, right?

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Just yesterday I told my employees the last two hours of the day, I want you guys just focusing a hundred percent on ai.

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Don't do any, don't do any work for our customers for the last two hours.

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Wow.

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Um, because we, we have got to complete this transition to AI coding, and there's, we have no choice.

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We have no choice.

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Can you trust it?

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The, um, no.

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Like, because sometimes GR and Chad, GPT just lie to you, you know, they're like, oh yeah, bill Clinton was president in 2017 or whatever.

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You're like, no, sure.

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That wasn't true.

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Um, no.

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You can't trust it.

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Um, yeah.

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But what you can do do is, but you can debug it.

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You can, you can learn it.

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Well, the, the, the, uh, what, what you're talking about is, is a little different.

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The, when we talk about writing software, there's just a lot less variability.

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And, and it's, it's something to see how good Chachi PT is with the English language and how much variability is in an English language.

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But when you look at computer code, there's just a lot less variability.

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Sure.

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And that enables, like when the language models kick out computer code, it always compiles it.

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There's never any syntax errors.

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Hmm.

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Right.

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So, um, so, so that's, that's nice right off the bat.

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Right.

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Right.

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But that could give you a false sense of security.

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Um, but I really think that the new unit of knowledge that's really important is the prompt, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm.

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How do you prompt the AI to, to consistently get you the results that you want?

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Yep.

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And you know, we have, uh, there's a number of different stages that software goes through as we go from the architecture to the finished product.

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Yeah.

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And the key thing that we need to do is figure out precisely how to prompt it at each step.

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So that we get, uh, consistent results and when we find a prompt that works, we're gonna keep it right.

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And then the question is, can we use an ai, like, so using AI to come up with the prompt, right?

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Right, right, right.

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Um, and, uh, so, uh, so, so anyway, that's, that, that's where we're, that's where the industry is headed.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And there's a bunch of software companies out there.

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All the big companies are looking to, to completely automate this.

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Right.

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Um, and, and that is just hugely threatening to my company.

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And so that's why I feel like we have, you know, we either surf this wave or get crushed by investing 20% of your guys' time in it.

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Exactly.

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Huh.

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Yeah.

00:12:35.991 --> 00:12:39.711
That's an amazing, but, but maybe the, the agility of.

00:12:40.432 --> 00:12:43.611
And the innovation of a smaller company can rule win out.

00:12:43.611 --> 00:12:44.032
I don't know.

00:12:44.302 --> 00:12:45.951
Well, I, I, I'm counting on it.

00:12:46.971 --> 00:12:47.241
Yeah.

00:12:47.246 --> 00:12:48.231
What choice, I dunno what else to do.

00:12:48.711 --> 00:13:00.861
I mean, we can live not nearly as exciting on my wife's military retirement, but, uh, um, yeah, there's, um, yeah, we, we, we, we gotta push forward on this.

00:13:00.861 --> 00:13:01.672
Yeah, I like it.

00:13:02.032 --> 00:13:06.172
Um, let's talk about your, uh, experience in Fort Collins so far.

00:13:06.172 --> 00:13:08.631
You said you have been a bike rider pretty consistently?

00:13:09.052 --> 00:13:09.892
Uh, yeah.

00:13:09.951 --> 00:13:10.282
Yeah.

00:13:10.282 --> 00:13:12.022
You know, um, yeah.

00:13:12.022 --> 00:13:15.442
I, I've gotten out here on this blue sky trail, so I do mountain biking and the road biking.

00:13:15.501 --> 00:13:15.831
Okay.

00:13:15.892 --> 00:13:19.402
And, um, I love these, uh, I love these trails.

00:13:19.491 --> 00:13:21.322
You know, I love riding on the bike trails.

00:13:21.322 --> 00:13:22.701
I'm a little scared to get on the road.

00:13:22.792 --> 00:13:22.881
Right.

00:13:22.881 --> 00:13:24.682
Just'cause I, you know, yeah.

00:13:24.892 --> 00:13:26.782
Most of us have been damn near hit a few times.

00:13:26.871 --> 00:13:27.381
Yeah.

00:13:27.802 --> 00:13:30.621
But, uh, the bike trails are phenomenal and I'm just so.

00:13:31.027 --> 00:13:34.447
Proud to live in a city that spends money on the bridges and the tunnels.

00:13:34.476 --> 00:13:38.527
So the, the, the, the bike trails don't intersect with the, with the big roadways.

00:13:38.527 --> 00:13:38.616
Yep.

00:13:38.652 --> 00:13:38.871
Yep.

00:13:39.307 --> 00:13:40.447
Uh, it's phenomenal.

00:13:40.447 --> 00:13:43.866
And then with the mountain biking, I mean, we got Lori State Park.

00:13:43.866 --> 00:13:49.147
I mean, I, I'm, I'm just getting into that in terms of really exploring these, these bike trails and stuff.

00:13:49.147 --> 00:13:50.376
But it's phenomenal.

00:13:50.376 --> 00:13:57.486
We'll have to have another walk and talk because I, uh, I was a lot more into mountain biking a few years ago, but, uh, it's a, it's, there's a lot of great trails around.

00:13:57.817 --> 00:13:58.267
Yeah.

00:13:58.326 --> 00:13:58.567
Yeah.

00:13:58.567 --> 00:14:00.576
Have you been up to, what are the trails?

00:14:00.576 --> 00:14:02.256
Up to putter that are off leash?

00:14:02.586 --> 00:14:03.277
Do you guys have a dog?

00:14:03.517 --> 00:14:04.147
Uh, no.

00:14:04.626 --> 00:14:06.697
Um, and no, I have not been up on those trails.

00:14:06.937 --> 00:14:13.596
Um, anyway, I forget the, the, anyway, there's two trails that are legally off leash dog Okay.

00:14:13.596 --> 00:14:14.017
Trails.

00:14:14.047 --> 00:14:14.437
Okay.

00:14:14.527 --> 00:14:17.256
Uh, that are also really excellent mountain biking trails.

00:14:17.466 --> 00:14:17.917
Okay.

00:14:18.006 --> 00:14:23.976
Uh, and so if you've got like a dog that's got wheels, it's a great way to run your dog, uh, legally.

00:14:24.067 --> 00:14:24.547
Okay.

00:14:24.876 --> 00:14:25.177
Alright.

00:14:25.177 --> 00:14:25.746
Sounds good.

00:14:25.746 --> 00:14:26.287
Sounds good.

00:14:26.287 --> 00:14:28.506
Well, you, you've had almost three years in Colorado Now.

00:14:28.506 --> 00:14:29.346
You don't have a dog yet.

00:14:29.856 --> 00:14:31.236
Uh, we had one, but, uh, sorry.

00:14:31.506 --> 00:14:33.126
It drove my, my wife a little nuts.

00:14:33.726 --> 00:14:38.767
She was, she was a, um, a golden retriever and she was the sweetest golden retriever you'd ever want to have.

00:14:38.767 --> 00:14:43.177
But just the hair was just, you need a golden, you need a doodle.

00:14:44.047 --> 00:14:46.687
That's what you need is a doodle, a non shedding golden retriever.

00:14:47.256 --> 00:14:47.917
Yeah, that's it.

00:14:47.917 --> 00:14:48.817
That would be a better bet.

00:14:48.817 --> 00:14:54.187
But yeah, the dog was driving my wife nuts and my wife was driving me nuts, so I'm like, the dog's gotta, yeah.

00:14:54.216 --> 00:14:56.616
So how did you get into custom software?

00:14:56.647 --> 00:14:58.057
Like, what was your journey?

00:14:58.476 --> 00:15:03.246
Um, did you work in industry for a while and then started your own thing or what's that look like?

00:15:03.366 --> 00:15:08.677
Yeah, so when I was, uh, when I was going to college, I, I read, um, uh.

00:15:09.246 --> 00:15:10.777
The road Less traveled by Scott Peck.

00:15:10.777 --> 00:15:12.277
And it had such a powerful impact on me.

00:15:12.277 --> 00:15:15.037
And I thought I wanted to be a, a psychiatrist, well, a psychologist.

00:15:15.517 --> 00:15:21.126
Um, and so I, I started down the road to become, um, a psychotherapist and, and psychologist.

00:15:21.126 --> 00:15:21.157
Okay.

00:15:21.427 --> 00:15:21.576
Yeah.

00:15:21.606 --> 00:15:31.147
And, uh, and then when I was in grad school, I got a chance to work in a group home with people with serious mental illness, including like major depression, bipolar disorder, yeah, yeah.

00:15:31.147 --> 00:15:31.986
Schizophrenia.

00:15:31.991 --> 00:15:32.172
Yeah.

00:15:33.067 --> 00:15:33.126
Yeah.

00:15:33.126 --> 00:15:45.876
And then I just decided that I did not wanna be a psychologist, but I had already, uh, kind of signed up with the military and they'd had, based on my desire to be a psychologist, they'd already put me in this Medical Service Corps and I, which I had no, you know.

00:15:45.876 --> 00:15:50.677
And so they said, well, now you're a healthcare administrator'cause you're not getting your PhD, you're gonna be a healthcare administrator.

00:15:50.677 --> 00:15:52.356
I'm like, what is, what is that?

00:15:52.447 --> 00:15:52.866
Right.

00:15:52.866 --> 00:15:53.647
I had no idea.

00:15:53.736 --> 00:15:55.897
Which is basically like a, a, a manager.

00:15:55.897 --> 00:15:56.371
Right, right.

00:15:56.376 --> 00:15:56.706
Exactly.

00:15:56.706 --> 00:15:56.976
Yeah.

00:15:56.976 --> 00:16:00.397
Just in organizer, the whole healthcare, keeping track of data Right.

00:16:00.402 --> 00:16:00.971
Was a big part of it.

00:16:00.971 --> 00:16:01.172
Right.

00:16:01.267 --> 00:16:01.657
Okay.

00:16:01.716 --> 00:16:08.317
So, um, so in 98, um, I was stationed at Triple Army Medical Center in uh.

00:16:08.647 --> 00:16:09.456
In, in Hawaii.

00:16:09.547 --> 00:16:09.846
Okay.

00:16:09.937 --> 00:16:25.506
And, uh, there I was, we had 1100 nurses in the hospital and I was in the nursing department, and I needed a, they needed a database to track all these nurses and, and who, who reports to who, when does their, uh, you know, basic life support certification expire.

00:16:25.511 --> 00:16:26.466
Right, right, right.

00:16:26.466 --> 00:16:27.456
And, uh, where are they working?

00:16:27.456 --> 00:16:31.177
How many, you know, how, how many people, how many patients are on that ward?

00:16:31.177 --> 00:16:31.897
How many nurses?

00:16:31.897 --> 00:16:32.797
What are the ratios?

00:16:33.216 --> 00:16:36.096
It was just, uh, so that, so that's where I cut my teeth.

00:16:36.096 --> 00:16:40.116
And, and, but it was really fortunate because there was a reorganization in the hospital.

00:16:40.121 --> 00:16:40.272
Mm.

00:16:40.506 --> 00:16:44.586
And about 60% of my workload just disappeared off my desk.

00:16:44.736 --> 00:16:45.277
Okay.

00:16:45.277 --> 00:16:51.067
And, and there was only one other guy who knew it in the hospital that my workload had, had, had plummeted, but he wasn't my boss.

00:16:52.971 --> 00:17:03.246
So, so I, you know, it was like a Tuesday afternoon and I'm like, I, you know, my email box is clear and I got like nothing to do and I, you know, I had this book on Microsoft Access.

00:17:03.251 --> 00:17:03.351
Okay.

00:17:03.697 --> 00:17:05.767
And I'm like, I'm just gonna plow through this book.

00:17:06.041 --> 00:17:06.332
Yeah.

00:17:06.672 --> 00:17:10.747
And I had the time Oh,'cause you were, you were doing this data handling, but old school style.

00:17:10.747 --> 00:17:10.807
Yeah.

00:17:11.346 --> 00:17:12.396
Well, yeah.

00:17:12.396 --> 00:17:13.626
You know, the, the key thing?

00:17:13.626 --> 00:17:13.807
Yeah.

00:17:13.866 --> 00:17:15.727
So we, we, we were using Microsoft Access.

00:17:15.727 --> 00:17:15.936
Yeah.

00:17:15.936 --> 00:17:18.247
I mean, that was a tool that I had readily available.

00:17:18.247 --> 00:17:21.936
Now, the IT department for the hospital, of course they wouldn't touch access, right?

00:17:21.936 --> 00:17:26.376
Because it's a desktop application and people kind of, it, people could look down on it, right?

00:17:26.406 --> 00:17:30.126
But the cool thing about Access it is it does allow for rapid application development.

00:17:30.126 --> 00:17:32.257
You can, you can build applications very quickly with it.

00:17:32.257 --> 00:17:32.376
Okay.

00:17:32.886 --> 00:17:34.116
And, um, but.

00:17:34.416 --> 00:17:36.217
But that's where I, I basically trained myself.

00:17:36.247 --> 00:17:38.737
I mean, I, I did have a few week long courses.

00:17:38.751 --> 00:17:44.257
I, I, I, I took, uh, well, I took a, uh, one college class in Excel and Okay.

00:17:44.257 --> 00:17:51.426
And access, and when we got to the access part, as soon as we got into it, I, I was like, I, I just knew that this stuff was for me.

00:17:51.426 --> 00:17:52.748
I, it just, it just clicked with me.

00:17:52.781 --> 00:17:53.071
Yeah.

00:17:53.436 --> 00:17:55.717
And the teacher, I'm like, he's going so slow.

00:17:55.717 --> 00:18:00.487
I just went through the course and, you know, I was like, teaching the other guys, right.

00:18:00.517 --> 00:18:01.416
This stuff should work.

00:18:01.777 --> 00:18:07.416
So that, that was my first introduction to, to databases and then we, you know, and you're like a 23-year-old guy or something.

00:18:07.747 --> 00:18:08.646
I was a little older than that.

00:18:08.652 --> 00:18:08.672
Yeah.

00:18:09.366 --> 00:18:09.606
Yeah.

00:18:09.606 --> 00:18:10.392
Probably my late twenties.

00:18:10.396 --> 00:18:10.777
Okay.

00:18:10.987 --> 00:18:11.436
Yeah.

00:18:11.767 --> 00:18:13.086
Um, almost 30.

00:18:13.086 --> 00:18:16.836
And, uh, and, and so I just, I just developed this expertise and access.

00:18:16.896 --> 00:18:16.987
Sure.

00:18:16.987 --> 00:18:26.166
And, um, after three years of that and, and you know, going through the books, teaching myself how to code when I got out of the Army, I'm like, I'm just gonna be a freelance database consultant.

00:18:26.196 --> 00:18:26.467
Huh.

00:18:27.037 --> 00:18:28.866
And, uh, so that was fun.

00:18:28.866 --> 00:18:30.261
And then, uh, I had a buddy of mine.

00:18:30.261 --> 00:18:33.142
Was it a decision to leave the Army, or, um, oh yeah, definitely.

00:18:33.142 --> 00:18:34.027
It was always a short term.

00:18:34.027 --> 00:18:34.116
Yeah.

00:18:34.146 --> 00:18:36.261
No, it was, I'd never intended to retire from it.

00:18:36.261 --> 00:18:36.422
Yeah.

00:18:36.426 --> 00:18:42.757
It was always, uh, well, I enlisted back in, in 90, uh, back in 1990, like a few weeks before Saddam invaded Kuwait.

00:18:43.326 --> 00:18:43.356
Okay.

00:18:43.356 --> 00:18:47.287
And that's a, that's a fun story, but, um, but yeah.

00:18:47.946 --> 00:18:49.267
Um, you wanna go there?

00:18:49.747 --> 00:18:50.646
Oh, sure, sure.

00:18:51.277 --> 00:18:51.757
Why not?

00:18:51.757 --> 00:18:52.386
Why not set the stage?

00:18:52.477 --> 00:18:58.326
Oh, so, um, so, you know, when I, when I was, uh, when I was going through high school, I thought I would go into the Army.

00:18:58.326 --> 00:19:01.416
'cause I had three older brothers all went right into the army as soon as they graduated high school.

00:19:01.446 --> 00:19:01.656
Okay.

00:19:01.656 --> 00:19:04.626
I, I'm like, I thought that's, it was just an assumption everybody does that.

00:19:04.836 --> 00:19:05.287
Yeah.

00:19:05.646 --> 00:19:08.527
And so I, I was gonna join the Army and my dad said, no.

00:19:08.946 --> 00:19:14.106
Uh, I want you to go to college and you're smarter than your brothers guess.

00:19:14.106 --> 00:19:16.957
Well, they'll probably listen to this and they'll be like, yeah, he kind of is.

00:19:18.156 --> 00:19:21.787
Well, the, uh, so, so I went to college, but I didn't have the discipline.

00:19:21.997 --> 00:19:23.616
Oh, I, I was really undisciplined.

00:19:23.676 --> 00:19:26.707
And so I ended up dropping a class and flunking out of class.

00:19:26.767 --> 00:19:27.606
And your dad's like the army?

00:19:29.346 --> 00:19:33.156
No, that, so anyway, so that didn't work out.

00:19:33.156 --> 00:19:34.567
Then I got a job at a restaurant.

00:19:34.567 --> 00:19:34.866
Right.

00:19:34.896 --> 00:19:35.106
Okay.

00:19:35.112 --> 00:19:39.336
And so I was like, partying, having a good time, you know, I was like 19, 20 years old.

00:19:39.666 --> 00:19:39.757
Sure.

00:19:39.906 --> 00:19:41.317
And so I did that for a while.

00:19:41.676 --> 00:19:47.527
And then, um, and then I, I, I was working in this restaurant and I, I was bartending and, and waiting tables.

00:19:47.527 --> 00:19:49.507
And then the manager comes up to me and she says.

00:19:50.301 --> 00:19:53.392
She says, you know, I think, I think you could be a manager, a restaurant manager.

00:19:53.842 --> 00:19:58.866
And it just scared, it, scared the crap outta me because I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not going.

00:19:58.866 --> 00:20:01.071
That means be this is a temporary thing, right?

00:20:02.122 --> 00:20:08.481
So, uh, a week later I decided to join the Army, and then it was like, boom, I was, I was outta there and this is right before.

00:20:08.942 --> 00:20:11.882
Like the sad saying exactly the first one, right?

00:20:11.882 --> 00:20:13.172
July, 1990.

00:20:13.291 --> 00:20:13.892
Yeah.

00:20:13.951 --> 00:20:14.971
When I, when I joined.

00:20:14.971 --> 00:20:21.001
So after, so when you join, so when I was in basic training, I mean, you have no access to media, you had no access to newspapers or anything.

00:20:21.301 --> 00:20:21.481
Right.

00:20:21.692 --> 00:20:30.902
And so the drill sergeant's coming in and like, oh yeah, Saddam just invaded Kuwait and you know, there's chemical weapons there and so you need to take this chemical weapon training very seriously.

00:20:30.932 --> 00:20:31.352
Oh gosh.

00:20:31.382 --> 00:20:34.412
'cause you get one little drop of this stuff on your skin and it's gonna kill you.

00:20:34.412 --> 00:20:36.122
And you might be heading off there as soon as you finish here.

00:20:36.511 --> 00:20:37.172
Exactly.

00:20:37.172 --> 00:20:41.583
And some of my, some of my classmates, some of the people I went through basic did go right off to Yeah.

00:20:41.583 --> 00:20:43.201
Uh, go right off to war afterwards.

00:20:43.231 --> 00:20:46.412
Um, so yeah, that was a, that was a real wake up call.

00:20:46.412 --> 00:20:51.632
So, um, what I tell young people is that, hey, if you wanna think about joining the military, just make sure you're willing to go to war.

00:20:51.662 --> 00:20:54.031
'cause that had, that thought had never come into my mind.

00:20:55.261 --> 00:20:56.701
Like, this was for college, right?

00:20:56.701 --> 00:20:56.761
Yeah.

00:20:56.761 --> 00:21:00.571
Vietnam was the last real thing that our military had been involved with.

00:21:00.602 --> 00:21:01.382
Exactly.

00:21:01.382 --> 00:21:02.011
Exactly.

00:21:02.011 --> 00:21:02.612
Interesting.

00:21:02.672 --> 00:21:03.932
So, um.

00:21:04.537 --> 00:21:04.896
Yeah.

00:21:04.896 --> 00:21:05.676
So, so yeah.

00:21:05.676 --> 00:21:07.717
Don't join the military unless you're ready to read it.

00:21:07.717 --> 00:21:08.136
Ready to go warm.

00:21:08.382 --> 00:21:08.461
Yeah.

00:21:08.461 --> 00:21:09.142
Did you see live action?

00:21:09.442 --> 00:21:10.086
No, I didn't.

00:21:10.176 --> 00:21:10.267
No.

00:21:10.267 --> 00:21:10.866
Thank goodness.

00:21:10.926 --> 00:21:11.166
Yeah.

00:21:11.172 --> 00:21:11.422
Yeah.

00:21:11.646 --> 00:21:19.987
Uh, I, I was ready to, I, I, I remember, have a very distinct memory sitting under a tree and be like, you know, they, I could, they could, they could send me over there and I could die over there.

00:21:19.987 --> 00:21:23.317
And I'm like, and um, I made the decision and I said, that's what happens.

00:21:23.317 --> 00:21:23.886
That's what happened.

00:21:23.886 --> 00:21:27.067
But, um, fortunately I got sent to California instead of Kuwait.

00:21:27.426 --> 00:21:27.606
Right.

00:21:27.606 --> 00:21:30.666
Which I was like really, really, really glad for.

00:21:31.297 --> 00:21:31.747
Yeah.

00:21:32.136 --> 00:21:36.037
So then you take this kind of found skill with access.

00:21:36.247 --> 00:21:36.666
Yeah.

00:21:36.666 --> 00:21:38.527
And, and, and then like.

00:21:39.231 --> 00:21:43.102
Well just become kind of a freelance software consultant at that point.

00:21:43.102 --> 00:21:43.342
Almost.

00:21:43.342 --> 00:21:43.912
Exactly.

00:21:43.912 --> 00:21:44.422
Exactly.

00:21:44.422 --> 00:21:47.902
And this was back before Google and Yahoo was the search engine.

00:21:47.902 --> 00:21:48.112
Then Yahoo.

00:21:50.541 --> 00:21:57.291
And my buddy, he had studied their, their, their algorithm and he told me exactly how to submit my, um, business to Yahoo.

00:21:57.741 --> 00:22:05.481
And when I followed his advice, when you put in like Microsoft Access help into Yahoo, my website was the only website that showed.

00:22:05.656 --> 00:22:06.136
Oh my gosh.

00:22:06.916 --> 00:22:09.096
So my, you know, it was just like, wow.

00:22:09.356 --> 00:22:11.271
It was, it was, it's like you're dominating Google search.

00:22:11.332 --> 00:22:12.892
Exactly, exactly.

00:22:12.892 --> 00:22:14.422
Crazy with that, with that one submission.

00:22:14.422 --> 00:22:16.372
So that was really fortunate.

00:22:16.402 --> 00:22:20.362
'cause it, it, it, you know, I got a lot of clients got, got a chance to kind of learn, learn business.

00:22:20.362 --> 00:22:21.741
Did you hire people right away?

00:22:21.797 --> 00:22:22.461
Not, not right?

00:22:22.491 --> 00:22:22.731
No.

00:22:22.731 --> 00:22:24.711
It took a, it took a year, like a year or two later.

00:22:24.711 --> 00:22:27.862
That same fella, uh, his name's good buddy of mine.

00:22:27.922 --> 00:22:29.632
He just moved to Fort Collins in September.

00:22:29.632 --> 00:22:29.991
Oh, fun.

00:22:30.142 --> 00:22:30.531
Um.

00:22:31.432 --> 00:22:36.142
But, uh, he, he had a contact in Omni Bond India who was doing the employee leasing.

00:22:36.321 --> 00:22:36.682
Okay.

00:22:36.682 --> 00:22:38.571
And, and he's like, you gotta check this out.

00:22:38.571 --> 00:22:41.362
It's only$200 a month per person full time.

00:22:41.902 --> 00:22:43.402
And I was like, I'll take two.

00:22:43.852 --> 00:22:44.031
Right?

00:22:44.422 --> 00:22:44.751
You know?

00:22:45.352 --> 00:22:50.632
And that was, that was, uh, that was back in 2002 or 2003, I'm not sure which, but right around there.

00:22:50.811 --> 00:22:53.991
But it was before you could talk to people.

00:22:54.051 --> 00:22:55.761
It definitely before video, right?

00:22:55.791 --> 00:22:56.781
Oh, over the internet.

00:22:56.781 --> 00:22:57.201
Right?

00:22:57.231 --> 00:23:01.071
So the, the only real time communication you had was instant message chat.

00:23:01.071 --> 00:23:07.102
So we would use like Yahoo Messenger and we would like type back and forth and these guys were not expert typists, right?

00:23:07.642 --> 00:23:09.652
I could type like 60 words a minute or whatever.

00:23:09.922 --> 00:23:13.221
I'd type my sentence and I'd be like waiting for them to type back.

00:23:13.221 --> 00:23:15.321
And, um, but.

00:23:15.787 --> 00:23:24.727
It was really valuable, uh, really valuable to be able to learn how to work with people in India without paying a, a, a, a big salary, right?

00:23:24.727 --> 00:23:24.728
Yeah.

00:23:24.732 --> 00:23:24.821
Yeah.

00:23:24.826 --> 00:23:26.856
And they would be like, Hey, this is, we're, we're behind schedule.

00:23:26.856 --> 00:23:27.906
I'd just keep going.

00:23:28.356 --> 00:23:30.696
Like, this is gonna take twice as long we thought, I'm just keep going.

00:23:31.057 --> 00:23:31.237
Right.

00:23:31.237 --> 00:23:32.136
Just don't stop.

00:23:32.136 --> 00:23:32.557
Right.

00:23:32.561 --> 00:23:33.061
And, um.

00:23:34.071 --> 00:23:41.001
But really the, the, the key thing I learned over a process of years was how to communicate software to requirements to them.

00:23:41.301 --> 00:23:41.422
Yeah.

00:23:41.422 --> 00:23:43.882
In a way where they don't have any questions, right?

00:23:43.886 --> 00:23:43.987
Yeah.

00:23:43.991 --> 00:23:48.622
They know exactly what to do when they follow the instructions, they deliver software.

00:23:48.622 --> 00:23:50.301
That's exactly what my customer needs.

00:23:50.307 --> 00:23:50.317
Yeah.

00:23:50.336 --> 00:23:55.791
Well, and exploring what your customer exactly needs then becomes the crux of the climb.

00:23:55.791 --> 00:23:56.152
Right?

00:23:56.632 --> 00:24:00.652
Like if you can learn really well what your customer really needs and explain it really well.

00:24:00.862 --> 00:24:03.442
Well, the, the, I would say it's almost easier to know.

00:24:03.442 --> 00:24:05.662
Well, it's easier to know what they tell you they want.

00:24:05.961 --> 00:24:07.521
That's, that's one thing, right?

00:24:07.642 --> 00:24:10.672
Because what they, what they actually need might be different.

00:24:10.731 --> 00:24:11.182
Oh yeah.

00:24:11.182 --> 00:24:19.791
That's a big part of the job is identifying that these conflicting requirements, they tell you they want this and they want that, and you're like, they don't, they don't match.

00:24:19.971 --> 00:24:20.422
Right.

00:24:20.422 --> 00:24:20.842
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:20.902 --> 00:24:23.061
Um, but, uh, but that's a separate issue.

00:24:23.061 --> 00:24:28.162
But, but once you figure out what you want the software to do, being able to communicate that to the programmers.

00:24:28.521 --> 00:24:29.932
Is is is really valuable.

00:24:29.932 --> 00:24:29.991
Yeah.

00:24:29.997 --> 00:24:36.832
And that's, uh, I think that that's probably one of my core skill sets is being able to communicate software requirements in an unambiguous way.

00:24:37.102 --> 00:24:37.432
Yeah.

00:24:37.731 --> 00:24:38.876
Yeah, that's really interesting.

00:24:39.257 --> 00:24:39.596
And then.

00:24:41.166 --> 00:24:47.856
Kind of just continued the, the journey from there without too much change was, was Access a cornerstone for a long time?

00:24:48.156 --> 00:24:49.926
Um, it sounds like it no longer is No, no.

00:24:49.926 --> 00:24:51.936
I don't touch it these days, but years since I've touched it.

00:24:51.997 --> 00:24:52.926
Um, no.

00:24:52.926 --> 00:25:04.267
So yeah, so we transitioned away from, from access to SQL Server and, and because SQL Servers also a Microsoft product and um, and then we transitioned away from desktop applications'cause they're a pain to support Right.

00:25:04.267 --> 00:25:05.527
Especially if you're working remotely.

00:25:05.551 --> 00:25:05.842
Okay.

00:25:05.842 --> 00:25:06.082
Right.

00:25:06.186 --> 00:25:10.297
'cause people are like, I'm having this issue on my computer and I'm like, oh my, I'm like, this is crazy.

00:25:10.297 --> 00:25:13.957
We go to web, then all I have to do is make sure that it's working on the web server.

00:25:13.957 --> 00:25:17.616
If they can't pull up a, if they can't pull up CNN, then it's not my problem.

00:25:17.646 --> 00:25:18.008
Right, right.

00:25:18.186 --> 00:25:19.747
So it was very clear delineation.

00:25:19.747 --> 00:25:20.646
So yeah.

00:25:20.646 --> 00:25:23.196
So we, we, we, we transitioned from Yeah.

00:25:23.287 --> 00:25:26.047
Um, my guys basically never did access.

00:25:27.156 --> 00:25:27.217
Oh, okay.

00:25:27.217 --> 00:25:29.497
We pretty much, yeah, we, we transitioned to Secret Server.

00:25:29.501 --> 00:25:30.037
Server very quickly.

00:25:30.396 --> 00:25:31.176
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:31.176 --> 00:25:31.178
Yeah.

00:25:31.777 --> 00:25:33.037
Yeah, I would, I, I could do that.

00:25:33.037 --> 00:25:33.967
I was so fast.

00:25:33.967 --> 00:25:35.047
It would just, it was crazy.

00:25:35.047 --> 00:25:38.767
I'd get these applications, I could knock it out in like six hours and the whole application would be done.

00:25:39.606 --> 00:25:47.497
Um,'cause access, access, when you, when you become an expert in it, you can develop applications like incredibly fast.

00:25:47.527 --> 00:25:47.676
Hmm.

00:25:48.126 --> 00:25:48.487
Yeah.

00:25:50.136 --> 00:25:54.936
Like when you say develop an application, that's like a, a, a case model, like pulling the data out of these.

00:25:55.686 --> 00:26:00.307
Places and, and giving that kind of dashboard effect kind of thing that you're looking for or what?

00:26:00.906 --> 00:26:03.247
Um, or the searchable It's searchable more.

00:26:03.336 --> 00:26:03.967
Oh yeah.

00:26:03.971 --> 00:26:06.787
Well, so, so Access is a, you know, a relational database tool, right?

00:26:06.791 --> 00:26:06.811
Yeah.

00:26:06.832 --> 00:26:11.017
So, so you can, uh, you, you can structure the data the way you want, right?

00:26:11.017 --> 00:26:15.336
You can say, look, we want to track people, we want to track, uh, you know, these vehicles.

00:26:15.336 --> 00:26:16.692
Well, those, those nurses is what I was thinking about.

00:26:16.692 --> 00:26:17.731
1100 nurses.

00:26:17.767 --> 00:26:18.787
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:26:18.787 --> 00:26:19.267
Exactly.

00:26:19.777 --> 00:26:24.967
Um, so yeah, the, the, uh, and that's where the software architecture comes in, right?

00:26:24.967 --> 00:26:25.057
Mm-hmm.

00:26:25.297 --> 00:26:28.027
Is understanding how do you set up the tables, right?

00:26:28.027 --> 00:26:32.826
What, what's the nature of the data that is, that's the software architect.

00:26:32.826 --> 00:26:43.491
That, that, I mean, is, is really my, my core skill and probably the, the thing that I'm, I'm, I'm best at, I'm thinking about like the, the Colorado Secretary of State Business Search database and stuff, right?

00:26:43.491 --> 00:26:43.652
Oh yeah.

00:26:43.652 --> 00:26:43.771
Uhhuh.

00:26:43.771 --> 00:26:43.772
Yeah.

00:26:43.778 --> 00:26:50.886
It's got all these different data points and it's searchable by different keywords and, you know, different cities and regions and all that.

00:26:50.916 --> 00:26:51.576
Exactly.

00:26:51.576 --> 00:26:51.846
Yeah.

00:26:51.846 --> 00:26:52.477
Exactly.

00:26:52.987 --> 00:26:53.257
Yeah.

00:26:53.257 --> 00:26:55.537
So that's, that's, that's structured data right there.

00:26:55.537 --> 00:26:57.396
And relational databases run the world.

00:26:57.672 --> 00:26:57.751
Hmm.

00:26:57.817 --> 00:27:01.446
I mean, everybody loves to talk about, you know, the new cool stuff.

00:27:01.446 --> 00:27:07.836
And if you were to go talk to a bunch of computer science, uh, college students, relational databases would not be on the top of their list.

00:27:07.836 --> 00:27:07.957
Right.

00:27:07.957 --> 00:27:09.366
Sexy things to learn new stuff.

00:27:09.366 --> 00:27:10.836
But they, but they run the world.

00:27:10.836 --> 00:27:11.017
Hmm.

00:27:11.106 --> 00:27:12.096
They really run the world.

00:27:12.096 --> 00:27:16.537
I mean, every time you go to check out at the grocery store, it, it's, that's all relational database stuff.

00:27:16.692 --> 00:27:17.112
Mm-hmm.

00:27:17.196 --> 00:27:23.406
You know, the SKU number, the price, the, you're gonna generate the ticket and calculating the sales tax, all that stuff.

00:27:23.406 --> 00:27:23.797
Oh yeah.

00:27:23.797 --> 00:27:25.477
And we just expect it all to just kind of work.

00:27:25.507 --> 00:27:27.817
And it does, I mean, it's, it's reliable technology.

00:27:27.817 --> 00:27:28.386
Yeah.

00:27:28.386 --> 00:27:28.387
Yeah.

00:27:28.777 --> 00:27:29.287
Interesting.

00:27:29.737 --> 00:27:33.396
Um, so like from your perspective.

00:27:34.866 --> 00:27:36.156
Things are changing rapidly.

00:27:36.156 --> 00:27:43.567
AI is bringing down development costs and making customization of software a more approachable thing for more companies.

00:27:43.926 --> 00:27:50.076
It's, it's going to reduce the cost of developing software across the industry for every software company out there.

00:27:50.076 --> 00:27:50.196
Yeah.

00:27:50.196 --> 00:27:51.846
For SaaS companies or for custom.

00:27:51.906 --> 00:27:52.086
Yeah.

00:27:52.086 --> 00:27:53.281
It's, it's any, yeah.

00:27:53.281 --> 00:28:00.457
The, the, uh, the, except for the people who, for the poor people out there that don't know that they need to learn this stuff yesterday.

00:28:00.461 --> 00:28:00.481
Yeah.

00:28:00.576 --> 00:28:00.727
Yeah.

00:28:00.727 --> 00:28:01.057
Right.

00:28:01.386 --> 00:28:11.376
Um, no, it, it's, to me, I think this ai, uh, revolution is equivalent to the industrial revolution in terms of the impact it's gonna have on society.

00:28:11.376 --> 00:28:15.936
I, I personally feel that AI is a more important invention, if you will.

00:28:15.936 --> 00:28:18.426
Even if it requires the internet, it's more important than the internet.

00:28:18.487 --> 00:28:18.727
Hmm.

00:28:18.876 --> 00:28:21.696
To me, it's, um, it, it's an absolute game changer.

00:28:21.696 --> 00:28:25.747
It's gonna change our society in ways that we cannot foresee right now.

00:28:26.737 --> 00:28:27.426
So.

00:28:27.442 --> 00:28:35.872
Yeah, one of the, I was just thinking about like West Virginia coal miners being laid off and people saying, well, I guess they should learn how to code.

00:28:36.652 --> 00:28:46.041
Um, and, uh, but, and'cause that was a really safe career choice for a long time to be a software coder.

00:28:46.311 --> 00:28:46.731
Yeah.

00:28:46.761 --> 00:28:47.241
Right.

00:28:47.241 --> 00:28:52.672
And you can make, you know, 80, a hundred,$200,000 a year being a coder or whatever.

00:28:52.672 --> 00:29:04.551
And now that's probably unsafe, you know, it's, or only, but only for, probably for fewer, there'll be one, one fifth as many coders, but they'll be using AI tools.

00:29:04.672 --> 00:29:05.271
Uh, much.

00:29:05.277 --> 00:29:05.527
Yeah.

00:29:05.721 --> 00:29:06.442
It's really hard.

00:29:06.442 --> 00:29:07.366
It's really hard to predict.

00:29:07.416 --> 00:29:07.767
Right.

00:29:07.771 --> 00:29:08.662
It's really hard to predict.

00:29:08.662 --> 00:29:11.092
But the key thing is, is that the cost is gonna go down.

00:29:11.271 --> 00:29:11.571
Right.

00:29:11.571 --> 00:29:13.821
And so as software gets cheaper.

00:29:14.271 --> 00:29:15.741
There's gonna be more of it, right?

00:29:15.741 --> 00:29:16.491
Supply and demand.

00:29:16.491 --> 00:29:17.392
I would think so, yeah.

00:29:17.422 --> 00:29:17.751
Right.

00:29:17.751 --> 00:29:22.102
So there'll be, you know, the software's just gonna get embedded into more and more areas of our life, I think.

00:29:22.102 --> 00:29:22.491
Huh?

00:29:23.332 --> 00:29:24.592
But where else can you put it?

00:29:24.592 --> 00:29:27.291
Like this microphone stand, doesn't need software.

00:29:27.592 --> 00:29:32.392
Well, like my, my buddy man, when he goes to the gym now, he, he takes chat g PT with them.

00:29:32.511 --> 00:29:35.781
He's like, Hey, I just did, you know, three reps at 50 pounds.

00:29:35.872 --> 00:29:35.961
Mm-hmm.

00:29:36.201 --> 00:29:37.821
Uh, what, what, what should I do next?

00:29:37.852 --> 00:29:38.061
Right.

00:29:38.067 --> 00:29:38.186
Mm-hmm.

00:29:38.571 --> 00:29:41.481
And, which I don't think is a, is a great use of ai, but Right.

00:29:41.571 --> 00:29:46.102
Um, but it will be, and, and as Theis gets smarter Right.

00:29:46.102 --> 00:29:49.882
You know, they're, they're gonna have more and more context to, to answer those questions.

00:29:49.882 --> 00:29:52.942
One of my friends was just telling me how he uses it for cooking.

00:29:53.271 --> 00:29:53.422
Yeah.

00:29:53.422 --> 00:29:54.082
Recipes.

00:29:54.082 --> 00:29:55.521
Hey, Chad, GBT I've got.

00:29:56.211 --> 00:30:01.731
Broccoli, asparagus, you know, carrots, chicken thighs and mozzarella cheese.

00:30:01.731 --> 00:30:02.932
Can you pull me up a quick recipe?

00:30:03.471 --> 00:30:05.392
And that, that's, it's a great idea.

00:30:05.392 --> 00:30:11.271
And, and personally, I would tell anybody that to use it as much as you can because using AI as a skill.

00:30:11.541 --> 00:30:11.751
Hmm.

00:30:11.902 --> 00:30:16.221
It's, it, don't think of it as, as just, uh, something that it, it's not magic.

00:30:16.461 --> 00:30:16.821
Right?

00:30:16.826 --> 00:30:16.977
Yeah.

00:30:16.981 --> 00:30:17.241
Yeah.

00:30:17.241 --> 00:30:24.471
When you, when you understand what, uh, how it's built, what an, some questions it can answer really, really well.

00:30:24.477 --> 00:30:24.576
Yeah.

00:30:24.582 --> 00:30:24.741
Yeah.

00:30:24.741 --> 00:30:25.372
Other questions?

00:30:25.372 --> 00:30:32.211
It can't, and the more you use ai, the more you'll understand where it can, what, what questions it can answer.

00:30:32.211 --> 00:30:32.662
Really ask value.

00:30:32.721 --> 00:30:33.261
Exactly.

00:30:33.261 --> 00:30:33.741
Yeah.

00:30:33.741 --> 00:30:33.742
Yeah.

00:30:34.551 --> 00:30:36.051
Well, and will that change over time?

00:30:36.051 --> 00:30:36.922
I think probably too.

00:30:37.461 --> 00:30:38.842
Well, as the AI gets better.

00:30:38.842 --> 00:30:39.291
Yeah.

00:30:39.412 --> 00:30:40.491
Um, but.

00:30:41.932 --> 00:30:48.261
Well, for, for where we are right now, I think I, I, I, you know, people, I mean, you take bookkeepers, right?

00:30:48.652 --> 00:30:52.761
Uh, you could look at bookkeepers, you could look at, uh, legal assistance, right?

00:30:53.152 --> 00:30:55.731
Um, AI is gonna impact all you look at.

00:30:55.912 --> 00:31:01.192
I mean, the poor people who work in call centers, they're like, they're on the chopping block, right?

00:31:01.192 --> 00:31:01.582
For sure.

00:31:01.672 --> 00:31:01.761
Yeah.

00:31:01.761 --> 00:31:04.852
And so when you, when you put a call center out of business Yeah.

00:31:04.852 --> 00:31:07.192
AI knows all the instructions for that device.

00:31:07.251 --> 00:31:08.481
Exactly, exactly.

00:31:08.481 --> 00:31:12.832
I mean, it can do the voice, it, it has, it's gonna have libraries of how to answer all these questions.

00:31:13.192 --> 00:31:15.082
These call centers are going away now.

00:31:15.082 --> 00:31:16.672
I don't know what those people are gonna do.

00:31:17.001 --> 00:31:17.301
Yeah.

00:31:17.632 --> 00:31:25.467
Um, that, that's, that's my concern is, is I really see AI as having a big impact in terms of impacting the labor needs.

00:31:25.467 --> 00:31:26.662
The, the, the, the labor force.

00:31:26.662 --> 00:31:27.082
And, and yeah.

00:31:27.442 --> 00:31:31.192
And it, the, the advancements are coming so rapidly.

00:31:31.311 --> 00:31:35.422
They're coming so rapidly that, um, we don't have much time to react.

00:31:35.422 --> 00:31:38.122
Like take that person to the call center, like, you know.

00:31:38.632 --> 00:31:40.582
Um, maybe they still have a job today.

00:31:41.031 --> 00:31:42.682
They need to go back to school right now.

00:31:42.741 --> 00:31:42.951
Yeah.

00:31:42.951 --> 00:31:44.662
And figure out where they're gonna retool.

00:31:45.382 --> 00:31:46.942
My buddy of mine's a massage therapist.

00:31:46.942 --> 00:31:48.592
I told him You're in good shape, right?

00:31:49.011 --> 00:31:49.342
Yeah.

00:31:49.402 --> 00:31:53.301
Um, you know, the nurses have more job security than the, than the physicians.

00:31:53.301 --> 00:31:53.451
Now.

00:31:53.451 --> 00:32:04.132
The physicians, when you look at what, what parts of their jobs are gonna be automated, it's gonna be reading the akg, EKGs, um, uh, and, and, and other, you know, reading x-rays and things like that.

00:32:04.491 --> 00:32:06.771
Those, those are applications where AI can really excel.

00:32:06.862 --> 00:32:07.192
Yeah.

00:32:07.251 --> 00:32:11.211
Whereas the nurse, you know, doing that injection, you know, she has much more job security.

00:32:11.211 --> 00:32:19.521
So I think it's important for everybody to think about, uh, how, what, what role AI is gonna play in their field.

00:32:19.761 --> 00:32:20.122
Right.

00:32:20.122 --> 00:32:22.882
And if you're a bookkeeper, for instance, I love, I love this example bookkeeper.

00:32:22.882 --> 00:32:22.942
Yeah.

00:32:22.942 --> 00:32:23.061
Please.

00:32:23.481 --> 00:32:24.021
Um.

00:32:25.071 --> 00:32:32.872
I mean, a, a lot of, you know what, what if, if bookkeepers are looking at transactions and learning how, you know, they understand how to put that transaction into accounting system.

00:32:32.961 --> 00:32:33.142
Yeah.

00:32:33.412 --> 00:32:34.251
That's informa.

00:32:34.251 --> 00:32:39.231
You know, that type of knowledge can, is, is readily, uh, doable by ai.

00:32:39.382 --> 00:32:39.682
Right.

00:32:40.011 --> 00:32:44.241
Um, and so my message to bookkeepers is learn how to use ai.

00:32:44.541 --> 00:32:44.811
Right.

00:32:44.811 --> 00:32:47.511
That's how you prevent AI from crushing you.

00:32:47.602 --> 00:32:47.902
Yeah.

00:32:48.082 --> 00:32:58.162
Is learning how to use it and being the guy who, who goes to your boss and says, Hey, I can, I can do more bookkeeping because now I understand how to use AI to do it.

00:32:58.402 --> 00:32:59.092
I don't wanna raise.

00:32:59.271 --> 00:33:00.652
Yeah, exactly.

00:33:00.801 --> 00:33:02.602
Right, because your productivity is going up.

00:33:02.626 --> 00:33:02.916
Yeah.

00:33:03.051 --> 00:33:03.412
Yeah.

00:33:03.531 --> 00:33:10.071
If you use it effectively, but then, I don't know, it's a, it seems like a potential trap for humanity of.

00:33:11.196 --> 00:33:15.457
And I guess not because, we'll, probably just like the writing of those prompts, right?

00:33:15.457 --> 00:33:22.567
Getting more creative of writing really good prompts means that humanities should continue to expand itself.

00:33:23.376 --> 00:33:27.727
I just worry that if we don't have to think anymore for ourselves, we just will stop thinking.

00:33:28.086 --> 00:33:29.826
Well, um, yeah.

00:33:29.826 --> 00:33:31.686
So let me, let me, let me tell you this story, right?

00:33:31.686 --> 00:33:34.146
So, uh, we had this road work on harmony, right?

00:33:34.146 --> 00:33:34.207
Yeah.

00:33:34.207 --> 00:33:36.067
Just a, just a, a week or two ago.

00:33:36.396 --> 00:33:36.936
Um.

00:33:37.402 --> 00:33:38.182
Google Maps.

00:33:38.182 --> 00:33:38.362
Alright.

00:33:38.362 --> 00:33:40.041
I'm taking my son to his, his lesson.

00:33:40.041 --> 00:33:41.092
My wife's in the car.

00:33:41.241 --> 00:33:41.392
Yeah.

00:33:41.451 --> 00:33:43.041
The Google Maps telling me to take harmony.

00:33:43.071 --> 00:33:43.311
Right.

00:33:43.372 --> 00:33:45.082
I'm like, I'm not taking harmony.

00:33:45.231 --> 00:33:46.041
You can't trick me.

00:33:46.217 --> 00:33:46.707
Dumbass.

00:33:46.852 --> 00:33:47.152
Right?

00:33:47.332 --> 00:33:52.882
So I get on Trivi, sure enough, man, I hit a roadblock and we get up, end up getting there even later.

00:33:52.882 --> 00:33:55.672
And my wife is like, you shut, have listen to Google Maps, right?

00:33:56.182 --> 00:34:01.432
When you, when we have systems that are smarter than we are, we're gonna, you have no choice really.

00:34:01.432 --> 00:34:02.152
But to listen.

00:34:02.301 --> 00:34:05.451
I mean, if you don't listen, you're making a poor choice.

00:34:05.541 --> 00:34:05.811
Yeah.

00:34:05.842 --> 00:34:11.302
And so you basically lose your agency just by having access to a system that is smarter than you are.

00:34:11.931 --> 00:34:17.902
And as that continues, um, the, when, when we're, when we're.

00:34:18.396 --> 00:34:21.396
Not the ones that we're not, when we're not the smartest people in the room.

00:34:21.516 --> 00:34:21.606
Right.

00:34:21.612 --> 00:34:22.476
You lose your power.

00:34:22.626 --> 00:34:23.047
Right.

00:34:23.047 --> 00:34:23.431
Right, right, right.

00:34:23.436 --> 00:34:28.777
And, uh, you fast forward 10 years and people are gonna be asking ai who to vote for?

00:34:28.777 --> 00:34:30.067
Well, who controls the ai?

00:34:30.097 --> 00:34:30.577
Right.

00:34:30.757 --> 00:34:33.847
You know, that's what policy decisions should we make if we don't think.

00:34:33.907 --> 00:34:34.447
Yeah.

00:34:34.507 --> 00:34:38.586
And so, um, so I'm really concerned that, that we lose our agency.

00:34:39.336 --> 00:34:41.646
Um, so you're, you're, you're a little scared too.

00:34:42.007 --> 00:34:46.806
Oh, and it's, well, you know, with a Chinese curse, may you live in interesting times.

00:34:46.806 --> 00:34:47.077
Right?

00:34:47.351 --> 00:34:47.592
Right.

00:34:47.677 --> 00:34:52.507
We live in very interesting times and, uh, no, I, I mean, I'm grateful for, for every day.

00:34:52.507 --> 00:35:01.686
And, and, and to, to be able to see this unfold before me, I is, is just a, it, it's such a, uh, I don't know, I don't know the right word, um, right.

00:35:01.717 --> 00:35:02.436
Calamity.

00:35:02.586 --> 00:35:07.206
It would probably not be the right one, but it, it is very, very interesting times that we live in.

00:35:07.206 --> 00:35:15.126
And, uh, now, uh, one would think that we could thrive as a, as a species because of this.

00:35:15.681 --> 00:35:17.242
Huge amount of applied leverage.

00:35:18.322 --> 00:35:18.742
Right.

00:35:18.742 --> 00:35:21.052
Like even the internet one would think.

00:35:21.561 --> 00:35:30.711
And it has, I would say that humanity is thriving a lot better than it was before the internet came along some, right.

00:35:30.771 --> 00:35:31.402
I don't know.

00:35:31.702 --> 00:35:32.331
Ish.

00:35:32.481 --> 00:35:35.572
Well, I, I've thought there's less people starving on a gross basis.

00:35:35.842 --> 00:35:36.291
Yeah.

00:35:36.351 --> 00:35:36.771
Yeah.

00:35:37.072 --> 00:35:38.931
No, I mean, no doubt a percentage wise.

00:35:38.931 --> 00:35:40.371
'cause we've got a little more people now too.

00:35:40.672 --> 00:35:41.211
For sure.

00:35:41.242 --> 00:35:41.751
For sure.

00:35:42.322 --> 00:35:51.891
No, I mean, uh, to, to me, you know, an analogy that, that I, I think, I think the homo sapiens, I mean, we're, we're approaching the end of our species actually.

00:35:51.891 --> 00:35:52.282
You do.

00:35:52.402 --> 00:35:52.731
I do.

00:35:52.822 --> 00:35:52.972
Yeah.

00:35:53.061 --> 00:35:55.456
And, and the analogy analogy, like, we're here to create this AI thing almost.

00:35:55.606 --> 00:35:57.592
Well it's, it's, it's gonna be smarter than us.

00:35:57.742 --> 00:35:58.012
Right.

00:35:58.012 --> 00:35:59.001
If it's not already right.

00:35:59.007 --> 00:35:59.056
Yeah.

00:35:59.061 --> 00:36:01.702
It's not, it's not as smarter than us right now, but it will be.

00:36:02.211 --> 00:36:06.891
And because the list of things that computers do better than people is only getting bigger.

00:36:07.192 --> 00:36:07.641
Right.

00:36:07.641 --> 00:36:07.976
Right, right.

00:36:08.211 --> 00:36:11.331
Um, and, and, and to me, I see an analogy.

00:36:11.766 --> 00:36:17.902
I, I was fascinated to learn this theory that, uh, homoerectus uh, a precursor species to humanity.

00:36:17.931 --> 00:36:17.961
Okay.

00:36:17.961 --> 00:36:18.112
Yeah.

00:36:18.411 --> 00:36:19.911
Um, domesticated fire.

00:36:20.331 --> 00:36:27.442
And when they, once they domesticated fire, that, when, when they learned how to cook, they were able to get more calories from their food.

00:36:27.472 --> 00:36:27.652
Yeah.

00:36:27.652 --> 00:36:27.652
Yeah.

00:36:27.952 --> 00:36:30.501
And that, uh, prompted a larger brain.

00:36:30.507 --> 00:36:30.766
Right.

00:36:30.766 --> 00:36:32.391
That basically turned'em into homo sapiens.

00:36:32.391 --> 00:36:33.802
It turned'em into homo sapiens.

00:36:33.802 --> 00:36:33.952
Yeah.

00:36:33.952 --> 00:36:35.512
And that was the end of Homoerectus.

00:36:35.512 --> 00:36:37.731
And they, they lived on this planet for 2 million years.

00:36:37.791 --> 00:36:38.302
Interesting.

00:36:38.391 --> 00:36:39.891
Um, yeah.

00:36:39.891 --> 00:36:46.342
So, um, so I, I, you know, I'm, I'm con I I, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen again.

00:36:46.402 --> 00:36:46.731
Yeah.

00:36:46.737 --> 00:36:46.847
Yeah.

00:36:48.291 --> 00:36:54.592
And what that new species is like, is probably what it takes a village to decipher, I suppose.

00:36:55.342 --> 00:36:55.702
Yeah.

00:36:55.702 --> 00:36:58.072
And whether it's biological or, I mean, I, I don't know.

00:36:58.882 --> 00:36:58.942
Yeah.

00:36:58.942 --> 00:37:06.532
I, I mean, uh, you get all these, well, the same thing about homo sapiens though is even if, like, I guess that they would just change or die out Right.

00:37:06.532 --> 00:37:08.811
Or whatever, because like we can just.

00:37:08.827 --> 00:37:23.916
It's like I got YouTube videos right now where people just go live in Alaska and they can like hunt moose in the wintertime and smoke some of it and they, you know, they don't really even need all this technology stuff to have a fulfilling life.

00:37:23.976 --> 00:37:24.427
Sure.

00:37:24.697 --> 00:37:24.936
No.

00:37:24.936 --> 00:37:25.237
Right.

00:37:25.237 --> 00:37:32.077
Or, you know, living in a beach house on the shore at, in Costa Rica, I catch one fish a day.

00:37:32.077 --> 00:37:32.976
I'm a pretty happy guy.

00:37:33.007 --> 00:37:33.427
I'm good.

00:37:33.606 --> 00:37:34.416
Right, right.

00:37:34.657 --> 00:37:35.286
No, I love that.

00:37:35.376 --> 00:37:35.916
I love that.

00:37:35.976 --> 00:37:39.067
So it's an interesting, and that doesn't power the stock market.

00:37:39.456 --> 00:37:40.266
Right, right.

00:37:40.266 --> 00:37:42.697
Or, or, or buy jet liners.

00:37:42.757 --> 00:37:43.117
Yeah.

00:37:43.117 --> 00:37:45.547
Or put on, you know, Taytay concerts.

00:37:47.347 --> 00:37:47.646
Yeah.

00:37:47.646 --> 00:37:48.036
I don't know.

00:37:48.036 --> 00:37:51.427
It is an interesting thing, like, I suppose you do move into something else.

00:37:52.206 --> 00:37:54.697
Um, but it'll be a few, few generations.

00:37:54.967 --> 00:37:55.447
Yeah.

00:37:55.536 --> 00:37:55.956
Yeah.

00:37:55.987 --> 00:37:56.166
Yeah.

00:37:56.166 --> 00:37:56.947
Definitely, definitely.

00:37:56.947 --> 00:37:59.467
Uh, quite a few unless, probably, unless, unless AI just killed us all.

00:38:00.726 --> 00:38:01.237
Thanks.

00:38:02.317 --> 00:38:03.217
Thanks for making me.

00:38:04.117 --> 00:38:04.686
Bye.

00:38:05.916 --> 00:38:07.266
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting.

00:38:08.047 --> 00:38:11.706
Um, I'm feeling like, uh, we could take a short potty break Okay.

00:38:11.706 --> 00:38:13.237
And then come into the later segments.

00:39:02.757 --> 00:39:03.237
And we're back.

00:39:03.777 --> 00:39:16.947
Um, so what I was thinking about just now was that, you know, if you look at like, the history of buildings and people and stuff, like in China, tell who the bosses of the.

00:39:18.538 --> 00:39:22.168
Seasons were based on who had the biggest buildings and stuff like Google, right.

00:39:22.708 --> 00:39:26.427
SpaceX has got a pretty big place these days and stuff, right?

00:39:26.427 --> 00:39:26.429
Sure.

00:39:26.847 --> 00:39:37.378
And, uh, and in the past it's been churches, you know, when they built those huge cathedrals and stuff like that, but that was like 8% of a nation's resources for Right.

00:39:37.438 --> 00:39:38.338
A hundred years.

00:39:39.358 --> 00:39:39.507
Right.

00:39:39.958 --> 00:39:46.677
And so there was, those were the bosses of the world, the hospitals that we've been building, the university buildings we've been building lately.

00:39:46.677 --> 00:39:54.538
Although it seems like it's gonna take some trickery to be the bosses of the world for the universities for the next a hundred years.

00:39:54.628 --> 00:40:00.297
I don't know, like with that super smart ai, like what do universities really do?

00:40:01.137 --> 00:40:06.838
It's, it, it's, uh, well, I tell you on that, on that point, I, I, I love, uh, learning from from GPT.

00:40:07.182 --> 00:40:07.902
I don't know.

00:40:07.902 --> 00:40:09.733
Have you ever had a conversation with it?

00:40:09.733 --> 00:40:12.043
Like, yeah, I use Rockmore personally, but, okay.

00:40:12.043 --> 00:40:12.043
Okay.

00:40:12.222 --> 00:40:12.822
Yeah.

00:40:12.913 --> 00:40:14.382
Um, but it's super fun.

00:40:14.557 --> 00:40:15.193
It it is.

00:40:15.552 --> 00:40:18.132
Exploring even deep topics and whatever else.

00:40:18.432 --> 00:40:19.333
Exactly, exactly.

00:40:19.333 --> 00:40:27.643
So I love going out for a walk and just having a, and, and asking it, you know, what I need to be doing, how this technology works, what I need to be studying, what these different words mean.

00:40:27.643 --> 00:40:28.063
Interesting.

00:40:28.063 --> 00:40:34.242
And, and, and just diving in, um, yeah, I mean, it is just such a wealth of knowledge.

00:40:34.242 --> 00:40:37.782
I mean, it feels like everything that's ever been learned is in these tools, right?

00:40:37.782 --> 00:40:38.023
Yeah.

00:40:38.023 --> 00:40:51.043
And you ask the questions, it, it, it, it if, again, so are those the next bosses of the world is like the AI companies, whether it be open AI or whatever, it, it, because that battle's not settled yet either, right?

00:40:51.043 --> 00:40:52.663
Like, who's the boss of the bosses?

00:40:52.693 --> 00:40:53.083
Right.

00:40:53.233 --> 00:40:53.592
Right.

00:40:54.193 --> 00:40:55.932
No, it, it, it, that's a good question.

00:40:55.932 --> 00:40:56.802
I don't know the answer.

00:40:56.952 --> 00:40:58.632
I don't know the answer, but, so do you use chat a lot?

00:40:58.632 --> 00:40:59.682
Is that your primary go-to?

00:40:59.682 --> 00:40:59.773
I do.

00:40:59.777 --> 00:40:59.898
Yeah.

00:41:00.072 --> 00:41:00.733
Yeah, it is.

00:41:01.032 --> 00:41:03.943
Um, it seems like what my team favors the most as well.

00:41:04.092 --> 00:41:04.572
Yeah.

00:41:05.398 --> 00:41:05.728
Yeah.

00:41:05.757 --> 00:41:08.788
Um, no, I appreciate it and I appreciate the different models that they have.

00:41:08.818 --> 00:41:11.277
Um, yeah, the different tunings kind of.

00:41:11.282 --> 00:41:11.293
Yeah.

00:41:11.432 --> 00:41:11.722
Yeah.

00:41:11.728 --> 00:41:11.788
Yeah.

00:41:11.818 --> 00:41:17.338
But to be honest with you, I still feel like a beginner and, and, and I imagine everybody listening to us feels like a beginner.

00:41:17.367 --> 00:41:19.378
I mean,'cause this stuff is just changing so fast, right?

00:41:19.443 --> 00:41:20.128
I mean Right.

00:41:20.577 --> 00:41:26.547
Uh, there's, there's new models coming out all the time, new co I mean, the, the applications are increasing.

00:41:26.757 --> 00:41:27.208
Yeah.

00:41:27.268 --> 00:41:30.268
Um, everything is just changing so quickly.

00:41:30.358 --> 00:41:30.807
Right.

00:41:30.807 --> 00:41:32.398
Well, and it's all free.

00:41:33.148 --> 00:41:38.367
Uh, they're not free 20 bucks a month or something for Chad GD Pro free for a hundred bucks a month or something.

00:41:38.367 --> 00:41:38.697
Right.

00:41:38.697 --> 00:41:49.407
Like, it's compared to Comcast trying to charge you a hundred bucks, 150 bucks a month for their selection of TV shows that you gotta just sit there and slog through, you know?

00:41:49.413 --> 00:41:50.307
Yeah, yeah.

00:41:50.518 --> 00:41:55.347
No, and, and in terms of the value, I mean, I don't, for me, I can't afford not to spend that money.

00:41:55.378 --> 00:41:56.367
Sure, sure.

00:41:56.427 --> 00:41:57.958
Um, makes sense.

00:41:58.347 --> 00:42:00.717
Um, what would you do if you were a kid these days?

00:42:00.748 --> 00:42:01.708
Like if you were that.

00:42:02.143 --> 00:42:06.163
An 18-year-old kid that your dad was telling to go to college in those days?

00:42:06.163 --> 00:42:06.612
Like what?

00:42:06.972 --> 00:42:09.583
Like, well, my, my, I've got, my, my older son is 17 years old.

00:42:09.583 --> 00:42:10.032
Okay.

00:42:10.032 --> 00:42:10.362
Yeah.

00:42:10.362 --> 00:42:19.123
And, and I've been telling him, uh, I, I've mentioned him a few times that look, you know, uh, he really needs to study this ai, but he's not, I maybe he, maybe he feels a little overwhelmed.

00:42:19.393 --> 00:42:19.572
Yeah.

00:42:19.663 --> 00:42:23.833
Um, but, uh, but he's not, he's not jumping on the bandwagon.

00:42:24.313 --> 00:42:24.313
Yeah.

00:42:24.612 --> 00:42:24.672
Yeah.

00:42:24.672 --> 00:42:28.813
He wants to do his own thing, so I gotta, I gotta give him that space and let him do his own thing.

00:42:28.813 --> 00:42:30.342
The royalty comic book authors too.

00:42:31.483 --> 00:42:34.603
Well, and my other son is playing bassoon, you know, and, and saxophone.

00:42:34.603 --> 00:42:36.523
I'm like, oh, that, that, you know, great.

00:42:36.523 --> 00:42:36.972
Go for it.

00:42:36.972 --> 00:42:36.974
Yeah.

00:42:36.978 --> 00:42:37.268
They can't do that.

00:42:37.663 --> 00:42:38.023
Yeah.

00:42:38.023 --> 00:42:38.202
Yeah.

00:42:38.233 --> 00:42:38.893
Exactly.

00:42:38.893 --> 00:42:39.432
Exactly.

00:42:39.943 --> 00:42:42.672
And, and people, people wanna have that human connection, right?

00:42:42.702 --> 00:42:42.882
Yeah.

00:42:42.913 --> 00:42:45.103
You see somebody playing the music up on stage.

00:42:45.132 --> 00:42:46.063
I mean, that's, yeah.

00:42:46.063 --> 00:42:48.043
That's different than just having to come over your headphones.

00:42:48.103 --> 00:42:49.063
Totally, totally.

00:42:49.152 --> 00:42:49.393
Yeah.

00:42:49.393 --> 00:42:51.972
It could be the most amazing music ever over your headphones, but.

00:42:52.797 --> 00:42:54.807
If you've actually been to a concert Yeah.

00:42:54.807 --> 00:42:56.967
By that musician, it sounds all the better.

00:42:57.027 --> 00:42:57.688
Exactly.

00:42:57.748 --> 00:42:58.137
Yeah.

00:42:58.213 --> 00:42:58.793
It really does.

00:42:58.862 --> 00:42:59.152
Yeah.

00:42:59.157 --> 00:43:00.568
Let's talk about your family a little bit.

00:43:00.628 --> 00:43:01.018
Sure.

00:43:01.077 --> 00:43:03.987
Um, where did you find your wife along the way?

00:43:04.047 --> 00:43:07.737
Yeah, so, uh, it was after I got outta the military in 2001.

00:43:07.827 --> 00:43:16.827
Uh, it was a few months later, um, that, that I met her and, and she was at Tripler at the same hospital that, that I had exited, exited from, but I was still living on Oahu.

00:43:16.887 --> 00:43:17.429
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:17.532 --> 00:43:26.577
And, uh, so we met online and, uh, and yeah, she's, uh, she was just so beautiful and a physician and, and, uh, you know, we started from that.

00:43:26.697 --> 00:43:27.913
We fair.

00:43:28.052 --> 00:43:30.927
Um, and, uh, yeah, we just hit it off.

00:43:30.927 --> 00:43:32.547
She's, she's, uh, Punjabi.

00:43:32.547 --> 00:43:32.577
Oh.

00:43:33.088 --> 00:43:37.592
And, uh, so she was, she was, uh, uh Oh, so's part of the Indian Connect too.

00:43:37.597 --> 00:43:38.547
Exactly, exactly.

00:43:38.547 --> 00:43:38.788
Yeah.

00:43:38.788 --> 00:43:43.137
My, it was so funny'cause, uh, one of the, one of the thought leaders I follow, he's, he's, uh.

00:43:43.648 --> 00:43:44.818
He believes in reincarnation.

00:43:44.818 --> 00:43:47.188
He's like, you were an Indian in a prior life.

00:43:48.208 --> 00:43:48.418
Right.

00:43:48.987 --> 00:43:49.918
Of all these you don't have a residence.

00:43:49.918 --> 00:43:50.577
Exactly.

00:43:50.577 --> 00:43:51.088
Exactly.

00:43:51.088 --> 00:43:51.507
That's cool.

00:43:51.717 --> 00:43:52.018
Yeah.

00:43:52.018 --> 00:43:58.887
So we were actually, um, married in, uh, in Chunga, in, in India, in, uh, Northern India.

00:43:58.918 --> 00:43:59.367
Oh wow.

00:43:59.458 --> 00:44:02.757
And then we did our, our honeymoon up in Shimmin, the Himalayas.

00:44:02.788 --> 00:44:03.268
Okay.

00:44:03.327 --> 00:44:05.103
And, uh, so that was, that was good.

00:44:05.103 --> 00:44:07.498
Pretty neat that back in 2004 we got married.

00:44:07.978 --> 00:44:09.268
Um, yeah.

00:44:09.268 --> 00:44:14.307
What a different experience as far as, uh, being able to be there, you know?

00:44:14.367 --> 00:44:14.757
Oh, yeah.

00:44:14.757 --> 00:44:16.228
Like, and, and be connected to there.

00:44:16.498 --> 00:44:16.887
Yeah.

00:44:16.947 --> 00:44:17.398
As well.

00:44:17.398 --> 00:44:17.757
Kind of.

00:44:18.117 --> 00:44:20.217
Now I've always been fascinated by India.

00:44:20.307 --> 00:44:25.108
Um, they're both their, what do I say?

00:44:25.108 --> 00:44:30.387
You know,'cause they had I guess the blessing of British colonization.

00:44:31.047 --> 00:44:31.168
Yeah.

00:44:31.168 --> 00:44:34.137
Even though it was probably felt kind of yucky for a long time or whatever.

00:44:34.137 --> 00:44:34.228
Right.

00:44:34.228 --> 00:44:38.907
But nowadays, like it, without that, they would be a much different place.

00:44:39.373 --> 00:44:39.583
Yeah.

00:44:39.583 --> 00:44:41.233
I probably wouldn't have employees there.

00:44:41.262 --> 00:44:41.668
Right, right, right.

00:44:41.682 --> 00:44:43.483
Because they wouldn't know English.

00:44:43.512 --> 00:44:43.963
Right, right.

00:44:43.969 --> 00:44:48.762
Which I've never learned, and they wouldn't have entered the modern world nearly so fully as a, as a nation kind of.

00:44:48.768 --> 00:44:49.057
Yeah.

00:44:49.213 --> 00:44:49.722
Yeah.

00:44:49.992 --> 00:44:53.382
'cause they modern modernized probably even faster than China in some ways.

00:44:53.382 --> 00:44:54.583
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:54.853 --> 00:45:04.302
Although not really because they, they had that foundation of industry and of kind of organization that the British brought there.

00:45:04.333 --> 00:45:07.063
Uh, it's such a, it's such a blessing and a curse.

00:45:07.063 --> 00:45:10.063
Kind of a, a element of, of history.

00:45:10.092 --> 00:45:11.172
Yeah, for sure.

00:45:11.742 --> 00:45:14.262
So, um, then you have two kids.

00:45:14.503 --> 00:45:15.012
Yeah, exactly.

00:45:15.012 --> 00:45:15.402
Yeah.

00:45:15.463 --> 00:45:15.702
Okay.

00:45:15.733 --> 00:45:22.992
So, uh, so yeah, the, uh, Benjamin and Julius, so the older one is 17, Ben and Julius is, uh, 14.

00:45:22.992 --> 00:45:27.402
They're going into, uh, ninth grade and their senior year at Fossil Ridge.

00:45:27.552 --> 00:45:33.882
So you guys had a few years of being married before the kids came along and you were traveling elsewhere, places from Hawaii too?

00:45:33.972 --> 00:45:38.083
Yeah, well, we, we had decided to have kids and um, and then my buddy, uh.

00:45:38.652 --> 00:45:41.503
His wife had just delivered and he said, you gotta come over to the hospital.

00:45:41.503 --> 00:45:43.543
So I went over to the hospital.

00:45:43.543 --> 00:45:46.242
He let me hold his, you know, brand new infant child.

00:45:46.302 --> 00:45:46.452
Okay.

00:45:46.452 --> 00:45:48.822
And when I got home, I'm like, honey, you gotta get back on the pill.

00:45:50.382 --> 00:45:50.503
No way.

00:45:51.793 --> 00:45:54.373
I have not ready, I'm not ready for this.

00:45:54.373 --> 00:45:58.032
It was really, it was a huge reality, reality check there.

00:45:58.362 --> 00:46:03.552
And that was a really good decision because after we left Hawaii, we went to Germany and we lived in Germany for two years.

00:46:03.583 --> 00:46:03.943
Okay.

00:46:04.213 --> 00:46:04.782
And.

00:46:05.188 --> 00:46:10.197
If we had had a child there, it just would've been really difficult because we had no family in there.

00:46:10.708 --> 00:46:12.867
Um, but without the kids, it was great.

00:46:12.867 --> 00:46:16.288
I bought the BMW on the Audubon.

00:46:16.288 --> 00:46:17.577
Yeah, exactly, man.

00:46:17.577 --> 00:46:18.507
Going out to nice dinners.

00:46:18.507 --> 00:46:20.248
You're married to a doctor, right?

00:46:20.338 --> 00:46:27.208
Oh, we, we drove, we drove all over, all over Western Europe to, you know, from Amsterdam when you traveled London, Paris Oh, cool.

00:46:27.208 --> 00:46:29.217
And Italy and, and Austria.

00:46:29.277 --> 00:46:32.998
And, uh, and, and it's tough to do that when you have a child in tow.

00:46:33.148 --> 00:46:33.418
Yeah.

00:46:33.532 --> 00:46:35.518
So, so that was a good two years right there.

00:46:35.547 --> 00:46:35.938
Nice.

00:46:36.387 --> 00:46:38.518
And then when did you actually start your family?

00:46:38.577 --> 00:46:42.927
Um, yeah, so she, she got pregnant in, in Europe and then we moved to Maryland where Ben was born.

00:46:42.932 --> 00:46:43.088
Oh, okay.

00:46:43.438 --> 00:46:48.807
And, uh, yeah, he was born at Bethesda, uh, Naval, uh, medical center where the president is treated.

00:46:49.018 --> 00:46:49.257
Sure, yep.

00:46:49.257 --> 00:46:49.347
Yep.

00:46:49.347 --> 00:46:53.907
And uh, and then we moved to San Antonio, and that's where Julius was born.

00:46:53.913 --> 00:46:53.992
Okay.

00:46:53.992 --> 00:46:55.858
So we lived in San Antonio for five years.

00:46:56.038 --> 00:46:56.188
Yeah.

00:46:56.188 --> 00:46:56.188
Yeah.

00:46:56.547 --> 00:46:59.592
And, uh, what an international and multiregional.

00:47:00.583 --> 00:47:01.182
Family.

00:47:01.213 --> 00:47:01.753
Yeah.

00:47:01.757 --> 00:47:01.797
Yeah.

00:47:01.813 --> 00:47:08.503
You know, you've had splashes in the east coast, kind of right in the heart of where all the things happened, right?

00:47:08.503 --> 00:47:08.563
Yeah.

00:47:08.563 --> 00:47:11.202
And then checked out, were you in Oahu the whole time?

00:47:11.202 --> 00:47:12.163
In Hawaii, I guess?

00:47:12.193 --> 00:47:20.233
Um, yeah, so, so I, I, I, I first got into Hawaii in 90 98 and I lived there till 2005 when we went to Germany.

00:47:20.382 --> 00:47:20.652
Yeah.

00:47:20.682 --> 00:47:25.632
And then, um, and then, and then her career ended up taking her back there in 2015.

00:47:25.693 --> 00:47:26.052
Okay.

00:47:26.532 --> 00:47:30.913
Um, and then we thought it would only be for three years, but, uh, it ended up being another seven years.

00:47:30.943 --> 00:47:31.393
Oh, wow.

00:47:31.932 --> 00:47:35.983
So that's, uh, that's kind of where all the stuff is happening in Hawaii though.

00:47:35.983 --> 00:47:38.052
Did you guys sneak off to the quiet islands?

00:47:38.472 --> 00:47:39.282
Not a whole bunch.

00:47:39.282 --> 00:47:40.483
Not with, with the kids.

00:47:40.483 --> 00:47:42.523
It's just, uh, you know, it's a little different.

00:47:42.523 --> 00:47:45.282
I mean, it's, it's probably more like a regular life like.

00:47:46.483 --> 00:47:51.253
Americans think about you got skid and cool and school and baseball games and Yeah.

00:47:51.253 --> 00:47:58.333
You know, there's still beaches and snorkeling or whatever if you want to, but it's a different Hawaii than most of us think about.

00:47:58.693 --> 00:48:08.592
Well, Hawaii is, there's a dynamic there that, um, and I don't fault anybody for this, but the locals, you know, so much of the population of Oahu in particular, and that's where I spent all my time.

00:48:08.592 --> 00:48:12.163
So much of the population there, maybe 20% is, is affiliated with the military.

00:48:12.222 --> 00:48:12.552
Right.

00:48:12.943 --> 00:48:15.643
And these are people who come for two or three years and then they leave.

00:48:15.672 --> 00:48:15.943
Right.

00:48:16.003 --> 00:48:16.873
Totally transitory.

00:48:17.023 --> 00:48:17.833
Exactly.

00:48:17.833 --> 00:48:21.882
And so the locals, I think outta self-preservation kind of wall them off.

00:48:21.943 --> 00:48:22.242
Yeah.

00:48:22.273 --> 00:48:25.003
You know, it'd be like, you know, you do your thing, we'll do our thing.

00:48:25.063 --> 00:48:25.543
Right.

00:48:25.632 --> 00:48:26.833
And, um, yeah.

00:48:27.432 --> 00:48:29.322
So, so that's the dynamic there.

00:48:29.682 --> 00:48:36.222
Um, the, the, I think the thing I found most difficult about living there is just the fact that you have to get on a plane to go anywhere.

00:48:36.492 --> 00:48:36.672
Yeah.

00:48:36.943 --> 00:48:37.873
Even to the next island.

00:48:37.963 --> 00:48:39.012
Even to the next island.

00:48:39.012 --> 00:48:42.822
And there was a ferry service that was running in Hawaii for a while, but that got shut down.

00:48:43.393 --> 00:48:47.143
Um, the rental car companies, the airlines didn't like the ferry service.

00:48:47.233 --> 00:48:47.922
Oh, right.

00:48:47.952 --> 00:48:49.753
So they all ganged up against it.

00:48:49.782 --> 00:48:56.443
We took a ferry from, uh, Maui to Le Lena.

00:48:56.532 --> 00:48:57.342
And what year was that?

00:48:57.583 --> 00:49:00.432
Uh, 2023.

00:49:00.733 --> 00:49:01.242
Oh really?

00:49:01.302 --> 00:49:02.802
Yeah, we were there for our 20th anniversary.

00:49:02.802 --> 00:49:02.833
Oh.

00:49:02.833 --> 00:49:02.922
Huh.

00:49:03.972 --> 00:49:05.532
So we just flew in and out of awa.

00:49:05.532 --> 00:49:05.742
Oh.

00:49:05.742 --> 00:49:06.043
I had it.

00:49:06.043 --> 00:49:07.108
But otherwise Okay, okay.

00:49:07.362 --> 00:49:08.143
Oh, so pretty recent.

00:49:08.382 --> 00:49:08.773
Okay.

00:49:08.893 --> 00:49:10.992
But yeah, there was a, it was a nice little short ferry, you know.

00:49:11.382 --> 00:49:11.413
Okay.

00:49:11.773 --> 00:49:17.382
But yeah, it was, well in Laa is itself kind of a, some sort of a monopoly.

00:49:17.382 --> 00:49:22.273
The whole place kind of, I forget who has it, but yeah.

00:49:22.543 --> 00:49:24.492
Only a few people kind of control that whole island.

00:49:24.807 --> 00:49:25.527
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:25.527 --> 00:49:33.838
No, the, the, the politics there, the leadership is not, well, I, I all, lemme just say this is that being here in Fort Collins, I feel like the city's really well run.

00:49:34.168 --> 00:49:35.547
And I, and I appreciate that.

00:49:35.577 --> 00:49:35.847
Yeah.

00:49:36.088 --> 00:49:36.927
And where did you grow up?

00:49:36.927 --> 00:49:37.407
Grow up?

00:49:37.432 --> 00:49:38.398
I, I grew up in Maryland.

00:49:38.402 --> 00:49:38.713
Oh, you did?

00:49:38.728 --> 00:49:38.818
Yeah.

00:49:38.818 --> 00:49:39.807
In West, yeah.

00:49:39.867 --> 00:49:42.807
Uh, town called Westminster, Northwest of Baltimore, Maryland.

00:49:42.838 --> 00:49:43.197
Okay.

00:49:43.827 --> 00:49:44.277
Interesting.

00:49:44.338 --> 00:49:48.208
That's a, uh, for some reason it feels like you got a bit of a southern twang.

00:49:48.208 --> 00:49:50.547
Maybe that's the time in Texas there or something.

00:49:50.757 --> 00:49:51.568
No, that's Maryland.

00:49:53.188 --> 00:49:53.547
Really.

00:49:53.788 --> 00:49:54.237
It's different.

00:49:54.777 --> 00:49:56.967
Few people pick it up, but you got a good ear.

00:49:58.318 --> 00:49:59.697
Um, that's interesting.

00:49:59.757 --> 00:50:01.018
How is Maryland like?

00:50:01.438 --> 00:50:05.038
Um, well, yeah, yeah.

00:50:05.038 --> 00:50:07.168
Growing up there, I mean, I, I had a great childhood.

00:50:07.197 --> 00:50:07.737
Um.

00:50:08.652 --> 00:50:14.713
And, uh, you know, I, I don't know, it, it's kind of tough for me to answer that'cause I, I, I pretty much spent my whole childhood there.

00:50:14.713 --> 00:50:19.992
So, like, in terms of how it compares to other places, I'm not, I'm not sure, you know, in terms of, of growing up.

00:50:19.992 --> 00:50:24.853
But, um, but, uh, no, I have fond, fond memories of know I had a good childhood.

00:50:24.972 --> 00:50:25.242
Okay.

00:50:25.572 --> 00:50:25.753
Yeah.

00:50:25.753 --> 00:50:25.842
Cool.

00:50:26.143 --> 00:50:27.163
Tell me about your kids a little bit.

00:50:27.413 --> 00:50:28.043
What were there.

00:50:28.103 --> 00:50:28.463
Yeah.

00:50:28.552 --> 00:50:35.063
Um, yeah, so, so, uh, so Julius, he, he, uh, he, he, he's definitely into the music and, um, okay.

00:50:35.063 --> 00:50:39.922
And it was a, it was a few years ago when, when I offered to take him to get his hair cut, and he's like, no, thank you.

00:50:42.143 --> 00:50:44.092
And it's been the same answer ever since.

00:50:45.112 --> 00:50:46.972
So he is got, he's got long hair.

00:50:46.972 --> 00:50:48.532
It comes down to his shoulders now.

00:50:48.592 --> 00:50:49.027
Gotcha, gotcha.

00:50:49.168 --> 00:50:51.202
And, and me, I've always had a tight military cut.

00:50:51.202 --> 00:50:55.552
And is he a, like bass guitar or He is drums or just, just bassoon or The bassoon.

00:50:55.552 --> 00:50:56.032
Bassoon, yes.

00:50:56.032 --> 00:50:56.213
I'm sorry.

00:50:56.213 --> 00:50:58.762
And now he's, he's switching over to a saxophone.

00:50:58.822 --> 00:50:59.063
Okay.

00:50:59.063 --> 00:51:06.293
So he's, he's gonna be, um, he, he, he's gonna be participating with the Fossil Ridge Marching band and he's putting the time in for that.

00:51:06.293 --> 00:51:06.684
That's pretty cool.

00:51:06.684 --> 00:51:06.684
Yeah.

00:51:06.690 --> 00:51:06.907
Yeah.

00:51:07.318 --> 00:51:08.487
And, uh, yeah.

00:51:08.487 --> 00:51:11.547
And, and he, he makes his own res on the b with the bassoon.

00:51:11.547 --> 00:51:12.268
Oh, you have the double res.

00:51:12.382 --> 00:51:14.637
And, and, and it, it's interesting.

00:51:14.668 --> 00:51:18.297
Um, but there's not a good supply of those in the marketplace, so.

00:51:18.302 --> 00:51:18.503
Huh.

00:51:18.777 --> 00:51:27.057
So he has to like, make his own res and he, he, we got him the tools and stuff, and, and his bassoon instructor actually taught him how to make, um, make the reads.

00:51:27.117 --> 00:51:27.777
That's fascinating.

00:51:27.777 --> 00:51:29.398
He might be a craftsman of some sort.

00:51:29.398 --> 00:51:32.668
Maybe he'll, uh, make violins or bassoons or something someday.

00:51:32.668 --> 00:51:32.788
Yeah.

00:51:33.057 --> 00:51:36.327
Well, he also enjoys computer games and, and he was actually interested in learning how to code.

00:51:36.418 --> 00:51:40.708
So, um, I started getting him into teach him how to, to write some C sharp code.

00:51:40.978 --> 00:51:41.367
There you go.

00:51:41.367 --> 00:51:42.447
So, so that's good.

00:51:42.958 --> 00:51:45.777
And then, um, Benjamin, uh, yeah, he's 17 now.

00:51:45.777 --> 00:51:47.097
He's, he's smart.

00:51:47.338 --> 00:51:48.987
And, uh, I got him into chess.

00:51:49.257 --> 00:51:51.268
So he's got a, he's got a chess instructor now.

00:51:51.297 --> 00:51:51.623
Oh, okay.

00:51:51.777 --> 00:51:53.907
And, uh, he plays, plays a pretty good game of chess.

00:51:53.998 --> 00:51:54.237
Oh.

00:51:54.297 --> 00:51:57.748
And, uh, it's funny, like I did too, like when I was 10.

00:51:57.867 --> 00:51:58.407
Oh, okay.

00:51:58.407 --> 00:52:01.197
And now when I play anybody that plays it all, it's like, it's.

00:52:02.123 --> 00:52:03.922
Just me crying, you know, quickly.

00:52:03.922 --> 00:52:04.282
Really?

00:52:05.273 --> 00:52:05.543
Yeah.

00:52:05.543 --> 00:52:19.432
Because people like learn all these different approaches and if you do that, like, I don't know, it's, it's cool how kids can play and learn and it isn't just kind of the, the logic of it.

00:52:19.432 --> 00:52:21.922
Like, it seemed like it was when I was learning.

00:52:22.253 --> 00:52:22.882
Yeah.

00:52:22.972 --> 00:52:26.512
Well there's, uh, well, I, I could talk about chess quite a bit.

00:52:26.568 --> 00:52:31.463
I, I, I, I had, um, an objective to be, become a chess master Oh, really?

00:52:31.467 --> 00:52:31.943
For, for years.

00:52:31.972 --> 00:52:32.393
Okay.

00:52:32.543 --> 00:52:35.422
And, uh, I just actually just gave up the game in September.

00:52:35.483 --> 00:52:35.963
Oh, really?

00:52:35.992 --> 00:52:36.503
Yeah.

00:52:36.592 --> 00:52:40.163
Um, I, I, I gave it up to put more time towards my business.

00:52:40.193 --> 00:52:40.523
Okay.

00:52:40.583 --> 00:52:40.943
And.

00:52:41.248 --> 00:52:45.927
Well, really the, probably the bigger reason is I felt like I was giving it more than it was giving me Mm.

00:52:45.927 --> 00:52:47.577
Because I was studying for hours every day.

00:52:47.668 --> 00:52:48.117
Wow.

00:52:48.177 --> 00:52:51.713
And, uh, well, that are, or that are just playing games and too many of Right.

00:52:51.713 --> 00:52:52.318
Right, right, right.

00:52:52.407 --> 00:52:56.757
But, um, but yeah, there's, uh, and I guess you didn't become a master.

00:52:56.762 --> 00:52:58.498
No, no, no.

00:52:58.768 --> 00:52:59.878
I, you might come back to it.

00:52:59.878 --> 00:53:05.097
You never know, but, well, it, it's the, the, the, the knowledge and being able to see the patterns.

00:53:05.097 --> 00:53:08.788
It's not like riding a bike when you take time away from the game, you get rusty.

00:53:08.847 --> 00:53:09.297
Oh, really?

00:53:09.387 --> 00:53:09.717
Oh, yeah.

00:53:09.717 --> 00:53:11.637
You gotta, you gotta keep that edge sharp, huh.

00:53:11.668 --> 00:53:12.688
With constant study.

00:53:12.688 --> 00:53:12.987
Interesting.

00:53:12.987 --> 00:53:13.467
Yeah.

00:53:13.467 --> 00:53:13.677
Yeah.

00:53:13.677 --> 00:53:13.918
Yeah.

00:53:13.922 --> 00:53:14.072
Huh.

00:53:14.307 --> 00:53:18.297
I wouldn't have thought that, I would've thought that it was like ingrained almost.

00:53:18.297 --> 00:53:19.467
And those patterns.

00:53:19.617 --> 00:53:20.367
Yeah.

00:53:20.367 --> 00:53:22.557
I mean, so it's not like I'm a beginner.

00:53:22.557 --> 00:53:22.887
Right.

00:53:22.887 --> 00:53:23.579
Right, right, right, right.

00:53:23.583 --> 00:53:26.128
But, but if you wanna like, keep that edge, stay at the sharp edge.

00:53:26.132 --> 00:53:26.152
Yeah.

00:53:26.152 --> 00:53:28.873
If you, if you gotta, if you wanna keep a sharp edge, you gotta study every day.

00:53:28.878 --> 00:53:29.277
Interesting.

00:53:29.277 --> 00:53:29.637
Yeah.

00:53:29.637 --> 00:53:29.907
You got it.

00:53:29.907 --> 00:53:35.547
I've enjoyed podcasts with like, grandma, chess players and stuff like that, of them talking about.

00:53:36.148 --> 00:53:40.018
How they think and stuff, but it doesn't really compute for me.

00:53:40.018 --> 00:53:40.288
Right?

00:53:40.318 --> 00:53:43.407
'cause I don't think that way, at least not in chess.

00:53:43.617 --> 00:53:46.648
Well, it just, it just takes, it just takes hours of practice every day.

00:53:46.648 --> 00:53:53.818
I mean, to get to the level where these grand Masters are playing, you need to be studying six hours a day at least, you know, to be able to play at that level.

00:53:53.847 --> 00:53:57.898
And it just, every day for the rest of you, I mean, for as long as you're playing competitively, right?

00:53:58.103 --> 00:54:02.543
That seems like more of a retirement activity, but probably you're a little slower when you're older too.

00:54:02.603 --> 00:54:03.202
Exactly.

00:54:03.262 --> 00:54:04.072
Yeah, exactly.

00:54:04.072 --> 00:54:05.842
No, it's, it's, uh, easier to play.

00:54:05.842 --> 00:54:10.463
Well, when you're a little younger, did your kids get good enough to beat you and that's why you quit?

00:54:10.523 --> 00:54:11.753
Um, no.

00:54:11.757 --> 00:54:11.898
No.

00:54:12.382 --> 00:54:13.253
I can, I can still beat'em.

00:54:13.257 --> 00:54:13.418
Okay.

00:54:13.478 --> 00:54:13.978
That's good.

00:54:14.393 --> 00:54:14.813
That's good.

00:54:15.172 --> 00:54:15.682
On a good day.

00:54:16.913 --> 00:54:20.693
But, uh, I don't know how much longer that's gonna, I have to, I have to work at it, right?

00:54:20.693 --> 00:54:20.693
Yeah.

00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:20.753
Yeah.

00:54:20.753 --> 00:54:21.742
Because I'm not studying.

00:54:21.742 --> 00:54:22.523
He, he is.

00:54:22.523 --> 00:54:22.853
Right.

00:54:22.853 --> 00:54:27.052
So he's getting better and I'm not, so, so, you know what he's gonna do as his next step?

00:54:27.052 --> 00:54:28.402
He's, he's not graduating.

00:54:28.402 --> 00:54:29.543
He's gonna One more year left.

00:54:29.543 --> 00:54:29.632
Yeah.

00:54:29.637 --> 00:54:29.858
Yeah.

00:54:29.858 --> 00:54:30.952
He's got one more year left.

00:54:30.983 --> 00:54:31.043
Yeah.

00:54:31.043 --> 00:54:32.842
And, um, I don't know.

00:54:32.992 --> 00:54:33.472
I don't know.

00:54:33.532 --> 00:54:34.643
He doesn't know what he's gonna do.

00:54:34.643 --> 00:54:35.722
I don't know what he's gonna do.

00:54:35.722 --> 00:54:35.932
And.

00:54:36.463 --> 00:54:44.893
Um, but you know, when I look at the route that I took from dropping outta college, enlisting in the village, bartender, restaurant manager, wannabe.

00:54:45.643 --> 00:54:46.003
Yeah.

00:54:46.003 --> 00:54:48.313
And then going to school and then Yeah.

00:54:48.313 --> 00:54:50.382
Coming back into the army and then figuring out what I want.

00:54:50.382 --> 00:54:53.818
I like, I was like 29 years old before I figured out I wanted to do databases.

00:54:53.818 --> 00:54:54.057
Yeah.

00:54:54.057 --> 00:54:57.702
So, I mean, my wife is, my wife was the complete opposite.

00:54:57.972 --> 00:55:04.213
'cause she went from high school straight into college, straight into medical school, like didn't miss a beat.

00:55:04.273 --> 00:55:04.722
Yes.

00:55:04.992 --> 00:55:12.492
Um, and so we're, we're very much opposites in that way, which is a very traditional pathway for some really smart Indian kids.

00:55:12.492 --> 00:55:13.063
Yeah.

00:55:13.152 --> 00:55:18.972
We're a little bit like, I, I hate to be a stereotype, but that's a, you know, a common trajectory.

00:55:18.972 --> 00:55:21.463
There's a lot of amazing doctors that have Yeah.

00:55:21.552 --> 00:55:23.563
Gone for the education path, you know.

00:55:23.568 --> 00:55:23.862
Well, well, yeah.

00:55:23.862 --> 00:55:27.972
She just, she just has tremendous discipline and, and so I just admire the hell at her for that.

00:55:27.978 --> 00:55:28.137
Yeah.

00:55:28.143 --> 00:55:28.483
Yeah.

00:55:28.543 --> 00:55:29.922
Um, more so than me.

00:55:30.282 --> 00:55:31.182
Do you wanna play the game?

00:55:31.753 --> 00:55:31.932
Sure.

00:55:32.293 --> 00:55:32.983
Pong ball game?

00:55:33.103 --> 00:55:33.463
Sure.

00:55:36.853 --> 00:55:41.768
So your job is to, oh, sometimes there's a prize you didn't bring a prize to today, did you?

00:55:42.467 --> 00:55:43.003
Did not.

00:55:43.003 --> 00:55:46.572
We'll make the prize be a$25 gift card to Silver Grill.

00:55:46.782 --> 00:55:47.293
Alright.

00:55:47.382 --> 00:55:48.402
Uh, that works.

00:55:48.463 --> 00:55:51.672
Uh, because I think that's, is that, did we meet at Silver Grill?

00:55:51.702 --> 00:55:52.688
No, we just had copy that now.

00:55:52.693 --> 00:55:52.992
Yeah.

00:55:53.052 --> 00:55:55.608
Well, and you can buy me lunch at some too for covering here.

00:55:55.608 --> 00:55:55.768
Okay.

00:55:55.768 --> 00:55:55.768
Alright.

00:55:56.083 --> 00:55:57.072
So pick three balls.

00:55:57.432 --> 00:55:57.612
Okay.

00:55:58.603 --> 00:56:06.552
And then one, uh, one of the answers to one of these questions is going to win somebody that, oh, you have to actually keep the numbers.

00:56:06.552 --> 00:56:07.302
I'll let you hold'em.

00:56:07.422 --> 00:56:07.753
Okay.

00:56:08.112 --> 00:56:10.092
Um, gimme your first number, please.

00:56:10.182 --> 00:56:10.333
All right.

00:56:10.333 --> 00:56:11.233
First number is three.

00:56:14.503 --> 00:56:16.842
How do you approach work life balance?

00:56:17.262 --> 00:56:20.503
Well, it sounds like giving up chess is part of it lately for you.

00:56:21.432 --> 00:56:27.913
Um, yeah, for me, work life balance is never, um, I I I've probably balanced more towards life than work.

00:56:27.972 --> 00:56:28.063
Yeah.

00:56:28.092 --> 00:56:28.782
For the most part.

00:56:28.842 --> 00:56:29.623
Uh, um.

00:56:32.338 --> 00:56:39.748
So, um, try to stay sharp and you communicate with your clients and with your team and Yeah.

00:56:39.777 --> 00:56:40.677
They write the stuff.

00:56:40.947 --> 00:56:44.932
So, so I, you know, I'm, I'm a believer in, in systems theory, constraint theory.

00:56:44.992 --> 00:56:45.413
Mm-hmm.

00:56:45.498 --> 00:56:51.507
And, and any system, there's gonna be one component that has the least throughput in that system.

00:56:51.657 --> 00:56:52.018
Okay.

00:56:52.887 --> 00:56:54.538
And my goal is to never be that component.

00:56:55.288 --> 00:56:55.318
Okay.

00:56:55.318 --> 00:56:55.737
I like it.

00:56:56.123 --> 00:56:56.818
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:57.027 --> 00:57:00.418
Um, because when, yeah, so, so, um, I don't avoid responsibility Yeah.

00:57:00.418 --> 00:57:03.208
But I apply it directly when needed.

00:57:03.447 --> 00:57:03.958
Yeah.

00:57:04.108 --> 00:57:04.378
Yeah.

00:57:04.407 --> 00:57:10.617
So, um, making sure I got enough people in India that can do the work and, and, um, uh, yeah.

00:57:10.648 --> 00:57:13.137
Keeping myself out that not being the constraint.

00:57:13.197 --> 00:57:13.257
Yeah.

00:57:13.257 --> 00:57:17.878
And, and, and being able to delegate and, and, and trust people and I, that, that's been huge.

00:57:17.907 --> 00:57:19.228
Um, yeah.

00:57:19.257 --> 00:57:25.047
So I've, I've got the, the team I have in India, I, I, uh, uh, I'm just so blessed to have them.

00:57:25.047 --> 00:57:27.333
I've, I've got like, right, you've got like a super, super power over there.

00:57:27.333 --> 00:57:28.378
11 people over there.

00:57:28.407 --> 00:57:28.677
Okay.

00:57:28.677 --> 00:57:30.148
And, um.

00:57:31.288 --> 00:57:33.898
Uh, eight of them have been with me for more than 10 years.

00:57:33.898 --> 00:57:33.958
Wow.

00:57:34.467 --> 00:57:37.797
And most of the rest of are, uh, have been with me for like more than 15 years.

00:57:37.853 --> 00:57:38.074
Oh, wow.

00:57:38.458 --> 00:57:43.197
So, uh, so we had to, we just have a deep, long lasting relationship and everybody knows their job.

00:57:43.617 --> 00:57:48.688
And, uh, a lot of times the emails come to me and they go to India and I'm, I'm just like, my guys got that.

00:57:48.688 --> 00:57:52.347
And I don't even have to, I just, I, I just un uncheck it and, and move on.

00:57:52.353 --> 00:57:52.432
Yeah.

00:57:52.438 --> 00:57:52.708
Yeah.

00:57:52.708 --> 00:57:53.668
And then they handle it.

00:57:54.418 --> 00:57:56.367
Have you always been the rainmaker for.

00:57:56.398 --> 00:57:56.458
Yeah.

00:57:57.237 --> 00:57:57.838
Your company.

00:57:57.867 --> 00:57:59.097
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:59.322 --> 00:58:02.847
I have to do all So finding the relationships and the, the demand Yeah.

00:58:02.847 --> 00:58:03.447
Side.

00:58:03.478 --> 00:58:07.228
Well, I, I've been really blessed that way'cause I'm not any kind of genius marketer or anything.

00:58:07.318 --> 00:58:07.588
Right.

00:58:07.588 --> 00:58:10.318
But when we get a client, uh, we keep'em for a long time.

00:58:10.378 --> 00:58:10.617
Yeah.

00:58:10.827 --> 00:58:14.128
Uh, like most of my clients have be with me for more than five years.

00:58:14.128 --> 00:58:17.307
We have one client that's been with us for 20 years, and we've only been in business for 24.

00:58:17.487 --> 00:58:17.818
Wow.

00:58:17.907 --> 00:58:22.347
And, uh, so having long relationships with my clients too has been very important.

00:58:22.353 --> 00:58:22.483
So.

00:58:22.483 --> 00:58:22.643
Yeah.

00:58:22.643 --> 00:58:22.802
Yeah.

00:58:22.807 --> 00:58:26.818
So my, my, my clients understand us, my, my employees do and Yeah.

00:58:26.818 --> 00:58:27.762
They understand your clients.

00:58:27.972 --> 00:58:28.322
Right.

00:58:28.327 --> 00:58:32.907
They, they know what to do and, and, and so I, I am able to, and they, and then they're working at night.

00:58:32.907 --> 00:58:33.148
Right.

00:58:33.148 --> 00:58:34.318
And so, right.

00:58:34.318 --> 00:58:37.228
It's, it's, so, I'm, I'm asleep When they're working, it's not like, here's a deliverables.

00:58:37.797 --> 00:58:38.128
Exactly.

00:58:38.132 --> 00:58:39.268
Oh, those look great.

00:58:39.838 --> 00:58:43.077
You wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, the donuts have been made already.

00:58:43.288 --> 00:58:45.657
And Yeah, I just, I'd never thought of it that way.

00:58:45.657 --> 00:58:48.237
The benefit of that, like, time to make the donuts.

00:58:48.237 --> 00:58:49.228
Oh, the donuts are made.

00:58:49.347 --> 00:58:50.097
Yeah, exactly.

00:58:50.128 --> 00:58:58.288
No, when I come in, I see all the emails and you know, my, my branch manager, he, he, he, all my clients know him by name and he writes'em back and he's like, this has been done.

00:58:58.288 --> 00:58:59.007
This has been done.

00:58:59.038 --> 00:58:59.757
Yeah, exactly.

00:58:59.788 --> 00:59:00.387
Oh, dang.

00:59:00.538 --> 00:59:01.467
That's really interesting.

00:59:01.588 --> 00:59:02.038
Yeah.

00:59:02.068 --> 00:59:06.327
What a fascinating lifestyle business model that you've been Yeah.

00:59:06.717 --> 00:59:07.257
Entertaining.

00:59:07.432 --> 00:59:12.657
I, I, I think, um, but I think I kind of went too far in that direction.

00:59:12.688 --> 00:59:12.717
Mm.

00:59:12.717 --> 00:59:16.677
And I actually had a fellow in, in, in, uh, San Antonio I worked with for 10 years.

00:59:16.708 --> 00:59:17.068
Okay.

00:59:17.097 --> 00:59:25.407
And when I moved here from, from Hawaii, we had three and a half months where our stuff was like stuck at the port in San Francisco, trying, waiting to get it to, to Fort Collins.

00:59:25.858 --> 00:59:30.208
But I actually took a couple months off of work and, and he was able to run the show.

00:59:30.297 --> 00:59:30.597
Yeah.

00:59:30.657 --> 00:59:36.237
And what I found after that experience is that I really enjoy the engagement that I.

00:59:37.003 --> 00:59:40.302
I really, I enjoy the stimulation, the intellectual stimulation.

00:59:40.302 --> 00:59:44.922
And now I'm at a point in my life where I'm really pushing the business more.

00:59:44.983 --> 00:59:45.103
Mm-hmm.

00:59:45.672 --> 00:59:50.503
Um, and, and so I'd say overall I manage a work-life balance very well.

00:59:50.592 --> 00:59:50.802
Yeah.

00:59:51.313 --> 00:59:51.492
Cool.

00:59:52.063 --> 00:59:52.842
Next number.

00:59:52.932 --> 00:59:53.443
Alright.

00:59:55.422 --> 00:59:55.992
24.

00:59:58.213 --> 01:00:01.362
What's the most durable business relationship you've had?

01:00:02.143 --> 01:00:02.922
Oh, yeah.

01:00:02.952 --> 01:00:05.413
That, that would have to be with, uh, equine Network.

01:00:05.443 --> 01:00:09.762
Well, it's actually the, the company, it's actually a brand US rider.

01:00:10.152 --> 01:00:10.362
Okay.

01:00:10.362 --> 01:00:15.893
'cause, uh, I've had that client since 2004 and, uh, the company's been sold twice and and they're still a client.

01:00:15.983 --> 01:00:16.163
Yeah.

01:00:16.163 --> 01:00:16.913
That's really cool.

01:00:16.943 --> 01:00:17.302
Yeah.

01:00:17.782 --> 01:00:23.572
Um, and is it a personal relationship or they just know that you're the software guy?

01:00:23.572 --> 01:00:27.202
When we need stuff for our, so yeah, it's a custom CRM.

01:00:27.443 --> 01:00:27.682
Okay.

01:00:27.682 --> 01:00:33.563
And so we, we wrote a CRM that enables the members to join online and renew their membership.

01:00:33.592 --> 01:00:33.922
Okay.

01:00:34.012 --> 01:00:39.387
And, um, and they, they have some, you know, they had some rules that they put in, like, yeah, yeah.

01:00:39.393 --> 01:00:45.322
You know, hey, we, we can have associates, but only one of'em can be a spouse and the other ones can be children, but once they hit 25, yada, yada, yada.

01:00:45.382 --> 01:00:45.443
Yeah.

01:00:45.447 --> 01:00:46.103
So you got these rules.

01:00:46.103 --> 01:00:50.722
So, um, you know, over the years, the, the, the system has just evolved, right.

01:00:50.722 --> 01:00:52.012
And as it's grown.

01:00:52.418 --> 01:00:53.557
The opportunities have grown.

01:00:53.588 --> 01:00:53.677
Sure.

01:00:53.677 --> 01:00:58.083
And then they innovate and they're like, Hey, we want to this, wanna this, do this, this, and this, this, this.

01:00:58.088 --> 01:00:58.387
Yeah.

01:00:58.402 --> 01:01:02.978
And, and, and that's really what's worked for me is having companies that grow as clients.

01:01:02.978 --> 01:01:03.338
That's cool.

01:01:03.458 --> 01:01:05.557
Because as they grow, their needs change.

01:01:05.617 --> 01:01:08.197
They wanna respond to new opportunities, new challenges.

01:01:08.228 --> 01:01:08.288
Yeah.

01:01:08.288 --> 01:01:09.878
And we can respond rapidly.

01:01:10.117 --> 01:01:19.237
Well, and, uh, selfishly, not selfishly, but like there's no off the shelf, nothing that can do all the things that you've built for them now.

01:01:19.807 --> 01:01:22.777
And, and all their customers, like are familiar with the interface.

01:01:22.777 --> 01:01:23.077
Right.

01:01:23.128 --> 01:01:23.827
Right, right.

01:01:23.827 --> 01:01:25.083
They all know it's security.

01:01:25.083 --> 01:01:25.762
It's like, it's broke.

01:01:25.762 --> 01:01:26.402
Don't you know?

01:01:26.498 --> 01:01:27.637
Why would you go and fix it?

01:01:27.697 --> 01:01:37.807
Oh, I've got a, a business development strategy for you is, is find companies that are kind of like some of your existing customers that are using crappy Yeah.

01:01:37.807 --> 01:01:41.018
Websites and technologies now and just offer them more of a.

01:01:42.083 --> 01:01:43.523
More like Bob has over here.

01:01:43.583 --> 01:01:44.333
Right, right, right.

01:01:44.333 --> 01:01:46.043
Well that's kind of like the SaaS model, right?

01:01:46.043 --> 01:01:46.463
Right.

01:01:46.463 --> 01:01:47.003
Yeah.

01:01:47.092 --> 01:01:47.452
Yeah.

01:01:47.452 --> 01:01:49.913
But you want a little customization on each one, otherwise, yeah.

01:01:50.063 --> 01:01:51.052
Why wouldn't they just buy it?

01:01:51.202 --> 01:01:51.652
Yeah.

01:01:51.713 --> 01:01:52.103
Yeah.

01:01:52.163 --> 01:01:52.523
I get it.

01:01:53.362 --> 01:01:54.023
Last number.

01:01:54.202 --> 01:01:54.563
Okay.

01:01:54.563 --> 01:01:56.873
The last number here is, uh, hold it.

01:01:56.873 --> 01:01:57.262
This one?

01:01:57.773 --> 01:01:58.012
Yep.

01:01:58.342 --> 01:01:59.092
26.

01:01:59.092 --> 01:01:59.782
26.

01:02:01.583 --> 01:02:04.523
What's your go-to way to unwind after a stressful day?

01:02:05.003 --> 01:02:07.523
Uh, I loved going out for a walk at night.

01:02:07.913 --> 01:02:10.282
And when, when, especially when the stars are out.

01:02:10.568 --> 01:02:10.648
Hmm.

01:02:10.652 --> 01:02:12.983
I mean, I live down by twin silo and, uh, okay.

01:02:13.702 --> 01:02:19.672
You know, when the, um, I, the stars are out, I, I love going out for walks at night.

01:02:19.677 --> 01:02:19.967
Yeah.

01:02:19.972 --> 01:02:24.532
And I've done it enough to where, uh, let, lemme share this.

01:02:24.538 --> 01:02:25.342
Is, is, uh.

01:02:26.858 --> 01:02:28.507
I had a realization one day.

01:02:28.568 --> 01:02:28.898
Okay.

01:02:29.077 --> 01:02:32.047
Um, because I would always go out at the same time at night.

01:02:32.288 --> 01:02:32.588
Okay.

01:02:32.797 --> 01:02:34.688
And I'm used to seeing the constellation there.

01:02:34.688 --> 01:02:38.197
And then I noticed that the constellation was in a different place a few months ago.

01:02:38.467 --> 01:02:38.797
Yeah.

01:02:39.097 --> 01:02:42.878
And I had that sensation of moving that the earth was moving.

01:02:44.077 --> 01:02:44.407
Right.

01:02:44.947 --> 01:02:52.358
And I knew the direction the earth was going through space in the same way that when you are in a car and you watch the tree goes by, you know, the car's going in the opposite direction.

01:02:52.358 --> 01:02:52.838
Sure.

01:02:53.288 --> 01:02:58.838
And um, and now I'm at the point where when I look up at the night sky, I can see the planet's in motion.

01:02:58.838 --> 01:03:02.197
Like I know when I see Mars, I know it's headed.

01:03:02.588 --> 01:03:03.248
Oh really?

01:03:03.277 --> 01:03:05.557
Uh, and you know, if you're facing South, it's headed to the left.

01:03:05.588 --> 01:03:06.007
Yeah.

01:03:06.427 --> 01:03:15.307
Um, and, and be able to, you know, see the, uh, basically be able to visualize the orbital plane.

01:03:15.697 --> 01:03:16.148
Yeah.

01:03:16.297 --> 01:03:20.882
Um, by being able to see kinda some of that data visualization you were talking about earlier in your life.

01:03:21.128 --> 01:03:21.487
Yeah.

01:03:21.487 --> 01:03:23.768
Well, it's more of, it's just about having the imagination.

01:03:23.858 --> 01:03:24.068
Yeah.

01:03:24.068 --> 01:03:27.882
And when you, when you see the planets and the planets basically always show up in, in pretty much the same Yeah.

01:03:27.887 --> 01:03:28.268
Yeah.

01:03:28.268 --> 01:03:29.588
Between the same set of stars.

01:03:29.677 --> 01:03:30.217
Yeah.

01:03:30.217 --> 01:03:30.219
Yeah.

01:03:30.224 --> 01:03:36.697
And I mean, and it was somebody kind of like you that originally noticed like, oh, Vita just goes along this track here, actually.

01:03:36.728 --> 01:03:37.268
Exactly.

01:03:37.268 --> 01:03:38.228
Yeah.

01:03:38.318 --> 01:03:38.648
Yeah, yeah.

01:03:38.663 --> 01:03:43.478
And, and it's actually not a flat earth, the sun out there.

01:03:43.538 --> 01:03:44.018
Yeah.

01:03:44.077 --> 01:03:44.378
Yeah.

01:03:44.378 --> 01:03:45.697
So, so yeah.

01:03:45.878 --> 01:03:54.878
That's, that's what I really enjoy is, is understanding the way, the way the earth is spinning, the way the, the planets are going across the sky, the, the moon and, and yeah, I just, so that's, that's how IAnd, that's pretty cool.

01:03:54.878 --> 01:03:57.518
We go camping quite a bit up at Red Feather area.

01:03:57.577 --> 01:03:58.057
Oh, I love it.

01:03:58.057 --> 01:03:58.597
Which is great.

01:03:58.597 --> 01:03:59.648
Star watching up there.

01:03:59.737 --> 01:04:00.128
Yeah.

01:04:00.128 --> 01:04:01.807
And we've definitely noticed like.

01:04:02.693 --> 01:04:04.583
Oh, there's like, what's that?

01:04:04.643 --> 01:04:05.557
Uh, Orion's belt.

01:04:05.588 --> 01:04:05.878
Belt.

01:04:05.878 --> 01:04:06.623
Ryan's belt, yeah.

01:04:06.623 --> 01:04:08.512
Is always an easy marker for me to find.

01:04:08.512 --> 01:04:08.992
It's like, sure.

01:04:09.143 --> 01:04:09.893
Well, it's here.

01:04:10.132 --> 01:04:12.833
It was just over there like it seemed like a few weeks ago.

01:04:12.833 --> 01:04:15.713
Like, what's, why is he moving around like that or whatever.

01:04:15.742 --> 01:04:16.164
Yeah, yeah.

01:04:16.313 --> 01:04:26.873
Um, and I don't know if I'm accurate about that, but even the planet's moving around and, and whatnot, but I haven't What built a working model of it in my head.

01:04:26.873 --> 01:04:27.713
I've noticed.

01:04:27.893 --> 01:04:28.342
Yeah.

01:04:28.552 --> 01:04:28.853
Right.

01:04:28.853 --> 01:04:30.682
So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a consistency.

01:04:30.688 --> 01:04:31.583
It's a progress consistency, right?

01:04:31.583 --> 01:04:31.943
Yeah.

01:04:32.003 --> 01:04:32.753
Yeah, yeah.

01:04:32.753 --> 01:04:32.753
Yeah.

01:04:32.992 --> 01:04:34.612
So I go out for a walk just about every night.

01:04:34.672 --> 01:04:35.003
Yeah.

01:04:35.003 --> 01:04:35.333
Cool.

01:04:35.632 --> 01:04:38.722
Is it like a 9:00 PM kind of thing after those guys?

01:04:39.143 --> 01:04:39.952
Well, that's, you know, I love winter time.

01:04:39.952 --> 01:04:43.853
Properly dark, you know, because six seven o o'clock at night, the stars are already out.

01:04:43.853 --> 01:04:46.222
I don't have to say it because I, I like, I like to wait until it's so cold.

01:04:46.492 --> 01:04:47.182
Right, right.

01:04:48.023 --> 01:04:53.768
So, yeah, in the summertime you gotta stay up late at night and I'm trying to like, keep a regular bed schedule, you know, getting sleep at a regular time these days.

01:04:53.768 --> 01:04:54.168
That's interesting thing.

01:04:54.168 --> 01:04:55.853
You're like, well, I gotta get my star walk in.

01:04:56.237 --> 01:04:56.527
Yeah.

01:04:57.922 --> 01:04:58.432
That's cool.

01:04:58.733 --> 01:05:00.262
Well, we're gonna have that be the prize.

01:05:00.407 --> 01:05:01.552
A, a nighttime walk.

01:05:01.552 --> 01:05:11.032
And I think I would encourage, uh, my wife and I used to do it on a pretty regular basis, you know,'cause that was the time when we finally had enough time to take the dog for a walk.

01:05:11.092 --> 01:05:11.512
Okay.

01:05:11.603 --> 01:05:15.862
We're old town Fort Collins, so we don't get very great stars.

01:05:16.612 --> 01:05:16.913
Yeah.

01:05:16.913 --> 01:05:17.603
Too often.

01:05:17.753 --> 01:05:18.143
Yeah.

01:05:18.413 --> 01:05:21.623
Um, a little more, a little more light, uh, pollution down there.

01:05:21.623 --> 01:05:24.233
But, um, it is something.

01:05:24.233 --> 01:05:28.402
Have you ever, have you ever, um, walked around this city during a snowstorm at night?

01:05:28.807 --> 01:05:29.318
Yeah.

01:05:29.588 --> 01:05:32.693
It's like it's lit up the whole, there's like so bright there.

01:05:32.873 --> 01:05:33.132
It is.

01:05:33.137 --> 01:05:33.518
So bright.

01:05:33.518 --> 01:05:43.387
It feels like it's daytime, which is, so when, when they came out with the LED lights back in the day, they were like, oh, we can save all this money.

01:05:44.018 --> 01:05:46.898
But ultimately they just made every city way brighter.

01:05:47.257 --> 01:05:47.438
Yeah.

01:05:47.467 --> 01:05:49.237
Uh, in Fort Collins is one of them too.

01:05:49.297 --> 01:05:51.038
That's why it's so bright.

01:05:51.038 --> 01:05:51.097
Yeah.

01:05:51.097 --> 01:05:53.137
They've got all these street lights that shine down.

01:05:53.347 --> 01:05:53.768
Right.

01:05:53.797 --> 01:05:59.047
Uh, especially and then when the snow is fresh snow on the ground, it's like the whole town just glows.

01:05:59.168 --> 01:05:59.918
It just glows.

01:05:59.918 --> 01:06:00.487
Exactly.

01:06:00.617 --> 01:06:01.387
No, exactly.

01:06:01.393 --> 01:06:01.932
No, it's pretty cool.

01:06:02.228 --> 01:06:05.257
No, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm a big fan of like dark space places.

01:06:05.257 --> 01:06:05.588
Right?

01:06:05.588 --> 01:06:05.797
Yeah.

01:06:05.797 --> 01:06:13.148
And, and, uh, so anyway, I get their newsletter and I think I, I sent'em some money, but in terms of participating more concretely Yeah.

01:06:13.208 --> 01:06:15.248
With the dark sky movement, yeah.

01:06:15.248 --> 01:06:15.938
I'm not there.

01:06:15.938 --> 01:06:18.938
But it's definitely something that I have that, that carries my sympathies.

01:06:19.418 --> 01:06:22.117
What are your, like big driving passions?

01:06:22.447 --> 01:06:27.668
Um, oh, well my, my passion absolutely is focus.

01:06:27.713 --> 01:06:27.742
Okay.

01:06:28.583 --> 01:06:33.922
Um, so I had an experience, uh, back in 2017 that was, uh, very emotional for me.

01:06:34.402 --> 01:06:41.813
Uh, and I found myself just, uh, in my mind going back to that experience over and over and over again, hundreds of times a day.

01:06:42.083 --> 01:06:42.922
Okay.

01:06:42.922 --> 01:06:44.663
And, um, and, and that gets distressing.

01:06:44.663 --> 01:06:47.663
And I remember thinking to myself, well, when I'm dead, I won't have to think about this anymore.

01:06:47.722 --> 01:06:48.143
Yeah.

01:06:48.233 --> 01:06:52.972
And it was a painful enough experience that I went and looked for a solution and I found it.

01:06:53.063 --> 01:06:57.922
And IFI found it with a, with an author, a speaker, thought leader, uh, Don de Ponti.

01:06:57.922 --> 01:06:58.043
Okay.

01:06:58.583 --> 01:07:05.632
And, um, and, and he published a book back in 22 called The Power of Unwavering Focus.

01:07:06.427 --> 01:07:10.717
And so, um, so I read that and, and that was not my first introduction to him.

01:07:10.717 --> 01:07:12.518
I actually met him back in 2015.

01:07:13.088 --> 01:07:19.208
Um, and then I, he had online courses and he has an app and I went through and I did all his courses and things like that.

01:07:19.213 --> 01:07:19.233
Okay.

01:07:19.233 --> 01:07:19.432
Yeah.

01:07:19.777 --> 01:07:32.318
Um, and, and maybe that coursework that I did on the app kind of like laid the foundation, but it was something about that book when I got that book in 22, that, um, it really changed my life profoundly.

01:07:32.887 --> 01:07:38.827
And I, I can't believe it's only been two and a half years since I got that book, because it feels like a lifetime ago for me.

01:07:38.827 --> 01:07:39.007
Really?

01:07:39.007 --> 01:07:40.748
'cause I've changed that dramatically.

01:07:40.807 --> 01:07:41.168
Yeah.

01:07:41.557 --> 01:07:49.268
Um, but what, what he says basically is that the key to life, the secret to life is being able to concentrate.

01:07:49.838 --> 01:07:52.958
The key to life is being able to control what it is you think about.

01:07:53.108 --> 01:07:53.378
Yeah.

01:07:53.677 --> 01:07:57.998
And he provides, he just lays out the Hindu philosophy for.

01:07:58.387 --> 01:08:06.038
Learning how to control where your awareness goes and what exercises and what practices do you implement in your life to control that.

01:08:06.038 --> 01:08:06.128
Sure.

01:08:06.188 --> 01:08:06.487
Yeah.

01:08:06.882 --> 01:08:10.688
And, um, it's, so, so that's my passion.

01:08:10.688 --> 01:08:13.777
So after, um, so I've read the book, uh, a number of times.

01:08:13.777 --> 01:08:15.068
I've been on two retreats with him.

01:08:15.277 --> 01:08:15.608
Okay.

01:08:15.697 --> 01:08:17.497
Most recent, most recently in March.

01:08:17.887 --> 01:08:18.007
Yeah.

01:08:18.007 --> 01:08:19.898
I met up with him in Cambodia and Malaysia.

01:08:19.927 --> 01:08:20.377
Okay.

01:08:20.768 --> 01:08:24.457
Um, and, uh, the book changed my life so much that I.

01:08:26.212 --> 01:08:28.012
Bought a hundred copies of the book to give away.

01:08:28.073 --> 01:08:28.432
Okay.

01:08:28.792 --> 01:08:33.082
And, um, if anybody wants a free copy, well that could have been your gift here, actually.

01:08:33.082 --> 01:08:35.603
Oh, well, that'll be your gift instead of$25 Silver Girl.

01:08:35.783 --> 01:08:36.353
Sure, sure.

01:08:36.353 --> 01:08:36.622
It'll be both.

01:08:36.983 --> 01:08:40.372
Well, for anybody, for anybody who wants a copy of this book Okay.

01:08:40.372 --> 01:08:41.182
They could just look you up.

01:08:41.182 --> 01:08:42.563
Send, send me a postcard.

01:08:42.563 --> 01:08:45.858
My address is 5 6 0 3 Falling Water Drive in Fort Collins.

01:08:45.997 --> 01:08:46.257
All right.

01:08:46.257 --> 01:08:47.337
8 0 5 2 8.

01:08:47.483 --> 01:08:51.773
Send me a postcard with a line or two about why you wanna focus and I'll send you a free copy of the book.

01:08:51.832 --> 01:08:52.283
I like it.

01:08:53.092 --> 01:08:57.233
I, uh, there's a book I've mentioned on the podcast before.

01:08:57.233 --> 01:08:59.752
I think it's David Engle, and it's the Brain.

01:09:00.682 --> 01:09:14.603
And it's kind of that same, like we have this neuroplasticity and we, we build ourselves ruts and stuff, but when we focus and concentrate our thought, then we can kind of get out of those ruts.

01:09:14.662 --> 01:09:17.422
And it's also a garbage in, garbage out kind of a world.

01:09:17.993 --> 01:09:18.743
So if you're just.

01:09:19.643 --> 01:09:23.962
Doom scrolling and not intentionally learning new things and stuff.

01:09:23.962 --> 01:09:29.422
Like you just don't have the raw materials to work with to have good concentration and thought and focus.

01:09:30.082 --> 01:09:34.703
Everybody has the, uh, has the, uh, we have the mind for it, right?

01:09:34.703 --> 01:09:35.512
The, the, the brain.

01:09:35.512 --> 01:09:38.332
And we all have the same kind of hardware, right?

01:09:38.337 --> 01:09:38.368
Yeah.

01:09:38.483 --> 01:09:38.722
Yeah.

01:09:38.722 --> 01:09:42.052
And it, it's just a question of, of of what practices that, that we live in.

01:09:42.052 --> 01:09:55.313
But, uh, what, what Don Deponing teaches is that when you repeatedly visited the area of, of the mind with your awareness, if your awareness is constantly going to one idea or one thought, that area of the mind becomes very strong, becomes magnetic, and it pulls your awareness there.

01:09:55.943 --> 01:10:04.342
And, um, as you stop that, that area of the mind becomes weaker and less magnetic and less, less of a pull on your awareness.

01:10:04.342 --> 01:10:04.582
Hmm.

01:10:04.672 --> 01:10:05.273
Um.

01:10:05.948 --> 01:10:11.467
And then you're able to, uh, to, to, to, to, to focus on, on what you wanna focus on in life.

01:10:11.972 --> 01:10:17.078
So, so was that, was that part of the contribution to the decision on leaving chess behind?

01:10:17.108 --> 01:10:17.887
Oh, absolutely.

01:10:17.903 --> 01:10:18.193
Yeah.

01:10:18.198 --> 01:10:18.578
Yeah.

01:10:18.608 --> 01:10:24.787
But the, the chess thing has just been, just been one, one brick of many in terms of ways that I've changed my life.

01:10:24.847 --> 01:10:25.087
Yeah.

01:10:25.507 --> 01:10:34.807
Um, like I had a, a nervous habit as a child, and, uh, and I guess by the time I was about 15 years old, like, like since as long as I can remember, I had this nervous habit.

01:10:34.807 --> 01:10:37.057
And when I was 15 it, I started getting embarrassed by it.

01:10:37.177 --> 01:10:40.238
And then I was like, okay, I wanna, I wanna get this under control.

01:10:40.243 --> 01:10:40.472
Okay.

01:10:40.653 --> 01:10:46.238
And I, so I, I fought against that habit in my entire life, but it wasn't until I got the book that I put the final nail in the coffin.

01:10:46.238 --> 01:10:46.597
Hmm.

01:10:47.632 --> 01:10:50.962
And so, so that's, that's, can I ask like, where you choose your fingernails, but but yeah.

01:10:50.962 --> 01:10:51.653
Chew on my fingernails.

01:10:51.653 --> 01:10:52.073
Exactly.

01:10:52.073 --> 01:10:52.462
Yeah.

01:10:52.467 --> 01:10:52.497
Okay.

01:10:52.523 --> 01:10:52.762
Yeah.

01:10:52.762 --> 01:10:59.662
And if you look at my fingers, you'll see they're little, they don't look like everybody else's, at least not well, when I see another fingernail biter, I look at their fingers.

01:10:59.722 --> 01:11:01.012
Like, you, you bite your fingernails.

01:11:01.012 --> 01:11:04.972
So even though you stopped a long time ago, it's, they still kind of Oh, yeah.

01:11:05.002 --> 01:11:05.962
Look different.

01:11:05.967 --> 01:11:06.863
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:06.953 --> 01:11:07.372
Okay.

01:11:07.432 --> 01:11:07.643
Yeah.

01:11:07.643 --> 01:11:10.733
The nail, the nail doesn't, it's not attached all the way to the edge of the finger.

01:11:10.823 --> 01:11:11.573
Oh, interesting.

01:11:11.847 --> 01:11:12.137
Yeah.

01:11:12.143 --> 01:11:12.292
Yeah.

01:11:12.563 --> 01:11:19.493
I remember like being scolded for two of my fingernails and stuff or whatever, but I never had a problem with it.

01:11:19.494 --> 01:11:19.496
Yeah.

01:11:19.496 --> 01:11:20.872
I just blow off my parents like, whatever.

01:11:20.872 --> 01:11:21.113
Yeah.

01:11:21.113 --> 01:11:21.533
I'll do what I want.

01:11:22.703 --> 01:11:23.453
That's interesting.

01:11:23.872 --> 01:11:30.082
So, um, and it just kind of allows that, it sounds like meditation in a lot of ways, right?

01:11:30.113 --> 01:11:33.443
Well, meditation is, um, is a way to practice concentration.

01:11:33.502 --> 01:11:33.893
Yeah.

01:11:34.012 --> 01:11:34.613
Um.

01:11:36.247 --> 01:11:36.818
So, yeah.

01:11:36.877 --> 01:11:38.198
Meditation is, yeah.

01:11:38.198 --> 01:11:42.188
It's a, it's a part of my practice today and, and it's, but it, it's, it's just one piece.

01:11:42.217 --> 01:11:42.547
Okay.

01:11:42.728 --> 01:11:49.207
Um, he really recommends like, you have to like, change your whole lifestyle because if you're only me, if you're only concentrating while you're meditating Mm.

01:11:49.207 --> 01:11:50.828
What are you doing for the other 23 hours of the day?

01:11:51.457 --> 01:11:51.728
Right.

01:11:51.728 --> 01:11:51.729
Right.

01:11:51.938 --> 01:11:57.518
And so what, what he teaches in the book is that what, what he advises is like almost every minute is accountable.

01:11:58.297 --> 01:11:58.807
Exactly.

01:11:59.443 --> 01:12:04.328
And, and he said, you, you, your goal is to be able to choose what you're thinking about every moment of the day.

01:12:04.387 --> 01:12:04.837
Yeah.

01:12:04.927 --> 01:12:08.318
Um, and that might sound exhausting, but I.

01:12:08.603 --> 01:12:09.382
As he says.

01:12:09.443 --> 01:12:15.143
Um, when you, once you learn how to concentrate, when you spend people time with people who are distracted, you find them exhausting.

01:12:15.143 --> 01:12:15.233
Yeah.

01:12:15.653 --> 01:12:17.092
Because they're bouncing around.

01:12:17.092 --> 01:12:17.153
Yeah.

01:12:17.153 --> 01:12:31.493
Or people that are really stressed out, or people that are anxious all the time and they just can't, well, he talks about this specifically is anxiety and fear that a lot of people, uh, live in fear and they constantly are thinking about that.

01:12:31.493 --> 01:12:31.552
Yeah.

01:12:31.552 --> 01:12:34.012
So that's the part of their mind that gets strong.

01:12:34.132 --> 01:12:34.432
Yeah.

01:12:34.552 --> 01:12:35.962
And, and pulls their awareness there.

01:12:35.993 --> 01:12:36.443
Yeah.

01:12:36.443 --> 01:12:36.444
Yeah.

01:12:37.103 --> 01:12:37.582
Fascinating.

01:12:38.243 --> 01:12:41.033
Um, so have you studied Hinduism and such as well?

01:12:41.033 --> 01:12:43.462
Are you, um, is your wife No.

01:12:43.462 --> 01:12:45.408
From that perspective, or do you guys do anything?

01:12:45.408 --> 01:12:47.993
No, she's, she was raised Sikh, um Oh, oh, okay.

01:12:48.113 --> 01:12:53.632
Um, but yeah, all the, well, that's one of the things I really appreciate about Don Pontis book is that it's completely secular.

01:12:53.662 --> 01:12:53.993
Right.

01:12:54.023 --> 01:12:58.432
He, um, mentions in a few paragraphs here and there, what he believes.

01:12:58.462 --> 01:12:58.792
Yeah.

01:12:58.853 --> 01:13:00.292
But that's not the point of the book.

01:13:00.563 --> 01:13:00.743
Yeah.

01:13:00.743 --> 01:13:00.893
Yeah.

01:13:00.922 --> 01:13:01.177
Um, but.

01:13:02.033 --> 01:13:02.662
Absolutely.

01:13:02.662 --> 01:13:04.582
The book is based on Hindu philosophy.

01:13:04.823 --> 01:13:05.122
Yeah.

01:13:05.243 --> 01:13:07.313
And then, uh, I'm reading another book now.

01:13:07.613 --> 01:13:10.823
I actually got a a, a book club, um, um Cool.

01:13:10.853 --> 01:13:13.703
When we're reading, uh, Napoleon Hill Think And Grow Rich.

01:13:13.823 --> 01:13:14.002
Oh yeah.

01:13:14.273 --> 01:13:17.813
And his book is actually has, uh, a lot of Hindu philosophy in it as well.

01:13:17.932 --> 01:13:18.472
Oh, is that right?

01:13:18.922 --> 01:13:24.292
The similarities between Hill's Book and uh, Don Deon's book are, are profound.

01:13:24.323 --> 01:13:28.432
Matter of fact, Don Ponty told me he's been studying Napoleon Hill's book for three.

01:13:28.432 --> 01:13:28.435
Is that right?

01:13:28.435 --> 01:13:28.792
For three years.

01:13:28.853 --> 01:13:29.363
Oh, interesting.

01:13:29.363 --> 01:13:30.172
He's been studying this book.

01:13:30.177 --> 01:13:33.622
Well, I read that Think and Grow Rich, but like 20 years ago or something.

01:13:33.688 --> 01:13:34.672
Right, right, right.

01:13:34.672 --> 01:13:38.542
Like, and I don't think I was, didn't have my head quite right for it at the time.

01:13:38.962 --> 01:13:40.762
It's, um, yeah, it.

01:13:41.153 --> 01:13:51.353
Uh, well, I, I can say that, that, that my interpretation of Hill's work is based on, you know, everything I've learned with Don Deponte and, and it's Right, uh, hill, which was about a hundred years ago, right?

01:13:51.353 --> 01:13:51.953
When Hill, yeah.

01:13:51.953 --> 01:13:53.002
I came out in 37.

01:13:53.007 --> 01:13:53.268
Okay.

01:13:53.268 --> 01:13:53.467
Yeah.

01:13:53.467 --> 01:13:55.507
Not quite came out in 37, so 85 or something.

01:13:55.537 --> 01:13:55.828
Yeah.

01:13:55.858 --> 01:13:56.148
Yeah.

01:13:56.287 --> 01:14:04.762
So, um, yeah, so, no, I'm really passionate about that and I, I mean, I'll just list off, I mean, a couple other things to help me with is it, it, I used to drink more than I should.

01:14:04.927 --> 01:14:05.347
Mm-hmm.

01:14:05.542 --> 01:14:06.502
And now I don't.

01:14:06.563 --> 01:14:09.893
Um, and I, and there's just been a whole bunch of things.

01:14:09.893 --> 01:14:13.313
It's just, I, I, I'm a, I can listen to my wife much better.

01:14:13.313 --> 01:14:14.872
I'm much more focused with her.

01:14:14.872 --> 01:14:15.203
Right?

01:14:15.203 --> 01:14:15.533
Yeah.

01:14:15.537 --> 01:14:15.587
Yeah.

01:14:15.773 --> 01:14:21.143
Um,'cause I, I got in a habit of, you know, just like Uhhuh Yeah.

01:14:21.203 --> 01:14:22.582
Well, I'm thinking about something else.

01:14:22.582 --> 01:14:22.823
Right.

01:14:22.828 --> 01:14:25.132
Uhhuh and not realizing just how disrespectful that is.

01:14:25.132 --> 01:14:25.222
Right.

01:14:25.222 --> 01:14:25.762
Yeah.

01:14:26.243 --> 01:14:35.182
And, uh, so over the course of years, I've, I've, I've worked on that and now I think, well, I don't know if she'd agree with me, but sometimes I feel like I'm being a better listener than she is now.

01:14:35.783 --> 01:14:35.842
Yeah.

01:14:35.842 --> 01:14:36.353
That's awesome.

01:14:36.682 --> 01:14:37.283
That's really cool.

01:14:37.762 --> 01:14:38.302
Um.

01:14:38.978 --> 01:14:40.028
What else would you care to share?

01:14:40.627 --> 01:14:41.257
Oh gosh.

01:14:41.257 --> 01:14:43.927
You've been a local think tank member for a few months.

01:14:43.957 --> 01:14:44.408
Yeah.

01:14:44.408 --> 01:14:44.677
Here.

01:14:44.707 --> 01:14:45.037
Yeah.

01:14:45.037 --> 01:14:45.963
No, so I'm really, really excited.

01:14:45.969 --> 01:14:47.707
Kinda joined during a transition of a chapter.

01:14:47.707 --> 01:14:48.068
New leadership.

01:14:48.323 --> 01:14:48.523
Exactly.

01:14:48.528 --> 01:14:49.118
Exactly.

01:14:49.118 --> 01:14:49.568
Yeah.

01:14:49.778 --> 01:14:51.337
No, I'm, I'm really grateful for that.

01:14:51.368 --> 01:14:52.868
'cause I've been in other peer groups.

01:14:52.988 --> 01:14:53.228
Okay.

01:14:53.228 --> 01:14:55.118
And I'm just a huge fan of peer groups.

01:14:55.507 --> 01:15:05.978
Um, and I'm still in touch with, I mean, I was in a peer group in San Antonio from about 2011 to 2015, and I'm still, I still got two clients from that group.

01:15:06.037 --> 01:15:06.637
Oh, that's cool.

01:15:06.698 --> 01:15:07.057
Right.

01:15:07.148 --> 01:15:17.408
And, uh, so, um, and then I was in EO for a while, but no, the peer groups for anybody that's thinking about joining a peer group, I mean, if, if we're running a business, there's no substitute.

01:15:17.408 --> 01:15:20.858
Well, I mean, Napoleon Hill coined the mastermind term.

01:15:20.858 --> 01:15:21.757
Right, exactly.

01:15:21.762 --> 01:15:22.122
Exactly.

01:15:22.122 --> 01:15:29.438
And so that's an interesting, uh, and it's really important to stay focused on the positive elements.

01:15:30.578 --> 01:15:30.997
Yeah.

01:15:31.057 --> 01:15:36.007
You know, if, if a peer group becomes kind of a complaining session place.

01:15:36.353 --> 01:15:38.453
It doesn't function well.

01:15:38.542 --> 01:15:38.962
Yeah.

01:15:39.023 --> 01:15:46.313
It has to be a place where you're growing and learning and intentionally like prodding each other to put your heads in the right places.

01:15:46.368 --> 01:15:46.658
Yeah.

01:15:46.882 --> 01:15:47.033
Yeah.

01:15:47.033 --> 01:15:48.802
So I, I think that's a really important point, Kurt.

01:15:48.802 --> 01:15:51.172
'cause not all peer groups created equal.

01:15:51.203 --> 01:15:51.592
Right.

01:15:51.592 --> 01:15:51.953
For sure.

01:15:51.957 --> 01:15:54.922
And, and, and, uh, I've been in groups that weren't a good fit.

01:15:55.432 --> 01:15:58.103
Um, and it's not like I stuck around.

01:15:58.552 --> 01:16:00.443
Um, you, you gotta make sure it's a good fit for you.

01:16:00.563 --> 01:16:00.622
Yeah.

01:16:00.622 --> 01:16:01.733
And, and there's there's gotta be that right.

01:16:01.733 --> 01:16:02.603
Chemistry and that.

01:16:02.662 --> 01:16:04.372
Um, yeah.

01:16:05.002 --> 01:16:16.403
But when you get in a good one and you've been in, especially when you've been in for a year or two, and your peers know your business and you know them and you trust them and you can be vulnerable in front of them and you can bring your toughest issues.

01:16:16.792 --> 01:16:19.283
Where else are you gonna get that you're not gonna get it from your spouse?

01:16:19.403 --> 01:16:20.573
It's a special place for sure.

01:16:20.573 --> 01:16:21.172
Yeah.

01:16:21.233 --> 01:16:25.403
You know, because they don't, you know, it's just, well, they don't understand it nearly as Right.

01:16:25.403 --> 01:16:29.752
And they're not, and, and so, so you're with people from the, that they're running their own business.

01:16:29.752 --> 01:16:31.073
It's a different business, right?

01:16:31.073 --> 01:16:31.073
Yeah.

01:16:31.078 --> 01:16:35.813
And they, they, they bring a perspective that, that you're not gonna tap into otherwise.

01:16:35.903 --> 01:16:36.143
Yeah.

01:16:36.292 --> 01:16:36.893
I think you're right.

01:16:37.523 --> 01:16:38.722
Well, thanks for being a part of it.

01:16:38.722 --> 01:16:41.573
I'm, I'm glad we found a, a good chapter fit for you.

01:16:41.632 --> 01:16:42.292
Yeah, me too.

01:16:42.353 --> 01:16:42.622
Me too.

01:16:43.012 --> 01:16:50.932
Um, what would you say your most, um, like pivotal decision or change in business has been?

01:16:50.932 --> 01:16:51.802
Or is it right now?

01:16:52.462 --> 01:16:53.228
Oh yeah.

01:16:53.228 --> 01:16:56.063
Is the changes over the next 24 months for.

01:16:57.023 --> 01:16:59.122
For your business, kind of the most greatest season?

01:16:59.122 --> 01:16:59.182
Yeah.

01:16:59.212 --> 01:17:01.252
No, I'm super excited from a business now.

01:17:01.283 --> 01:17:07.042
'cause I, I tell you, I always like, I I, I think I mentioned this a little earlier, I always felt like I've been playing second fiddle to these SaaS companies and now, right.

01:17:07.372 --> 01:17:09.893
I feel like with ai, the, the, the playing field is level.

01:17:09.948 --> 01:17:10.238
Okay.

01:17:10.243 --> 01:17:18.983
'cause now I'll be able to bring software solutions at a similar price, or, or no, it's not, it's gonna be a little bit more than SaaS, but it's gonna be a much better fit for my clients.

01:17:18.988 --> 01:17:19.278
Right.

01:17:19.578 --> 01:17:24.802
And I really think Kurt, I mean, I've been doing custom software for, for 24 years plus.

01:17:24.802 --> 01:17:31.672
And, and, um, and they're really gonna struggle to find any one software that sells that scale.

01:17:32.063 --> 01:17:32.542
Yeah.

01:17:32.842 --> 01:17:33.773
Right, right.

01:17:33.953 --> 01:17:40.762
Like,'cause it would be better if it was just a little bit more Well, their, their business model is all about selling the same piece of software to every company out there.

01:17:40.768 --> 01:17:41.603
Right, right, right.

01:17:41.603 --> 01:17:45.438
And making it, you know, adding all these features and, and, and buttons and, and, and, yeah.

01:17:45.438 --> 01:17:45.597
Yeah.

01:17:45.863 --> 01:17:47.243
Um, and, and whatnot.

01:17:47.243 --> 01:17:48.082
And, uh.

01:17:48.097 --> 01:17:52.387
Yeah, they're, they're not gonna be able to leverage AI to, to the extent that I will.

01:17:52.507 --> 01:17:52.747
Yeah.

01:17:52.807 --> 01:17:58.028
And that, that's why I feel like the, the, uh, custom, custom software is in the ascendancy.

01:17:58.268 --> 01:17:58.597
Yeah.

01:17:59.023 --> 01:17:59.783
I dig, dig it.

01:17:59.783 --> 01:18:00.097
I dig it.

01:18:00.247 --> 01:18:00.667
Yeah.

01:18:01.177 --> 01:18:03.247
Well, I appreciate you spending some time with me today.

01:18:03.427 --> 01:18:03.938
Absolutely.

01:18:03.938 --> 01:18:05.228
An enjoyable conversation.

01:18:05.228 --> 01:18:12.877
And, uh, you know, I wish you very much, uh, I, I, I'd like nothing more than a David versus Goliath, uh, victory for David.

01:18:13.507 --> 01:18:13.898
Okay.

01:18:13.898 --> 01:18:16.807
And so go get those SaaS companies, get that market share back.

01:18:16.837 --> 01:18:17.347
I will.

01:18:17.542 --> 01:18:18.637
I, I'll focus on it.

01:18:18.637 --> 01:18:19.717
All right, well, got speed.

01:18:19.778 --> 01:18:19.927
Yeah.

01:18:19.927 --> 01:18:20.467
Focus on it.

01:18:20.467 --> 01:18:20.887
That's right.

01:18:22.328 --> 01:18:22.568
Oh yeah.

01:18:22.568 --> 01:18:23.047
And Shaka.

01:18:23.108 --> 01:18:23.707
Alright.

01:18:24.278 --> 01:18:24.877
Thanks Kurt.