Building the Foundations of Stronger Communities - Kristin Todd, President & CEO of NoCo Foundation

On today's episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, Kristen Todd returned to share some updates from the NOCO Foundation. Kristen was previously my guest on episode 136 when she was yet fairly new in the role, so listeners might choose to tune into that episode for a deeper dive into her life and career journey. The biggest news up front is that yet another guest of the Loco Experience Podcast has started their own. The NoCo Voices podcast, officially launched in March, and features topically focused conversations with community leaders. So far, they're five episodes in and have several more on the docket, so give them a listen and follow. Our conversation today was spent pulling back the curtain on how community foundations do their role in the community, and especially what sets the NoCo Foundation apart. Kristen details their three pillars of core foundation services, strengthening the nonprofit sector, and convening regional stakeholders to address complex issues, such as the Larimer and Weld County tension with water, with transportation, with worker mobility. Kristen also introduced a new client engagement model since joining the team, which has resulted in active community grant activity increasing from $7 million to over $16 million during her tenure. Later in the conversation, she also shared some life and family updates, sampled our crazy ginger hot sauce, and shared a local experience of backpacking with a friend for a semester in Europe, sleeping on trains and not deciding on the next stop until getting to the train station and seeing what the schedule allowed for. She's a leader of leaders and a great conversationalist, so please enjoy my conversation with Kristen Todd, President and CEO of the NOCO Foundation. Welcome to the Loco Experience Podcast. On this show, you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond. Our guests share their stories. And through it all, you'll be inspired and entertained. These conversations are real and raw, and no topics are off limits. So pop in a breath mint and get ready to meet our latest guest. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. My guest today is Kristen Todd, and she is the president and CEO of the Loco Foundation. Thanks, Kurt. Welcome back to the studio. Yeah, thank you. It's been three years, probably. Has it? I was trying to think about that when it was here. Do you remember your episode number? I could guess that. I do not. But I do remember it was the very first time I had ever been on a podcast. Yeah. Are you a veteran now? I'm kind of a veteran now. You guys have a podcast now. We actually launched a podcast, so we have our own podcast. So tell me, was being on this podcast at all influential in that? Or tell me about the process of making that decision. Yeah, a little bit. It just seems like more and more, it's just an interesting way, I think, for people to get to know what's going on in Northern Colorado and get to know people that are doing things. And so... Earlier this year, we launched NOCO Voices. Okay. And our tagline is conversations with neighbors who are shaping northern Colorado. And just a nice way that we felt like we could elevate folks throughout Larimer and Weld counties who are doing really cool things. Who maybe don't always, community may not always be aware of that. If you look at your card there that I gifted you... I think I said something about being a change maker for our region. So that's part of making that change is lifting up voices that are also making change, right? You bet. You bet. So somehow maybe you, without knowing, kind of launched or planted a seed that has grown. So tell me what have you done so far? Like how many episodes and any favorite ones? Yeah, so we did. I think we've got four that have released so far. So we're still early in. We have another three that are being edited. So we're releasing them about every two to three weeks. Gotcha. And we did one. Our first one was with two of our board members. And so we talked a little bit about what is the NOCO Foundation. And why are we launching a podcast? And who are these board members, are you allowed to say? Sure, yeah. Since there's public information. Yeah, Nick Rowe is our board chair, Loveland, leader in Loveland. And then Nicole Stodinger is our vice chair. Big slacker. Yes, exactly. She's not involved in anything. So we just had a fun conversation about who we are and why we were launching a podcast. Actually, I listened to that one now that I reflect. I'm not sure. I must not have subscribed, so I don't see it pop up. Oh, you need to follow us. So all you listeners out there that are tuning in for this conversation, subscribe and share both the Loco Experience and the NoCo Voices podcast. NoCo Voices. Yes, so follow both of us. And then our second episode was an interesting one. A big part of what we do at the NOCO Foundation is promote regionalism and to bring lots of regional stakeholders to the table to grapple with some of our challenging, complex issues. So I'm sure we'll get into some of that. But our second NOCO Voices episode was... with outgoing Mayor Jenny Arndt and outgoing Mayor John Gates in Greeley. So we had Fort Collins and Greeley mayors on talking about what kind of their reflection on being mayors of two very different communities, but needing to work together on behalf of the region. Yeah. And what's that really look like to work together, right? Like it's, yeah, it's sharing roadway expenses and things like that, but it's also... understanding where transportation patterns are happening, what the water needs and opportunities are. Water, housing, all of those big issues. Greeley and Fort Collins have had more than a few water spats over the years. Indeed. And we probably always will. However, I think what they would say and what I believe is that if we treat each other as people and we try to get to know one another as human beings, that we have a whole lot more in common. For sure. I mean, we're hugely blessed to have both like kind of a tech and education and health care forward county in Larimer and a very agricultural manufacturing kind of an energy. Right. Between those two regions, we've got like seven major kind of industries covered in a very strong way. Yeah, no doubt. Not to mention the education over there and other things as well, but a lot of opportunities. So I guess what does that role look like for regionalism for the NOCO Foundation? Like, is that built into your charter virtually? It is in the sense that we talk about our work – well, I talk about our work in three buckets. And I think actually if I went back and listened to the podcast that I did three years ago, and I think then we were talking about two buckets. Oh, is that right? So it's this interesting evolution of our work. and just to kind of quickly give you the overview, because I think the framework helps... A lot of people are very familiar with the foundation, if I'm honest. And the framework helps, I think, describe what we do. So I would start by saying we've been around 50 years. So we have been around a long time. We were founded in 1975. And the purpose of a community foundation is to essentially aggregate resources for the benefit of the community. And so we have a very long-term look at how do we... work with donors, work with generous folks in the community, bring philanthropic dollars together, aggregate them, invest them for the long term, and focus on issues that really impact our quality of life now, but for generations to come. So we have this very long, long look. Big, long lens view. And so we inspire philanthropy. We try to help people with their philanthropy. We house donor advised funds. We house different types of philanthropic funds. We have about 200. You're a vessel for that. We're a vessel for that. Especially those community minded folks. If somebody wants to just seed their alma mater with $100 million, that isn't really your place to step in between. Exactly. But for philanthropists that are more like you and me, I would say we can provide a service and help philanthropy, um, make it be seamless, easy, strategic. I, I laugh and say, we're the philanthropic easy button. We want to make philanthropy easy so that more people will join in and recognize that everybody can be a philanthropist, right? You don't have to have a hundred million dollars to give to your alma mater, um, And that's one of those, is that the new bucket? That is, no, that is the... Okay, so let's describe the bucket. Yes, okay, so back to the bucket. So what I've been describing is really what I would call our core work, and that's the work we've done for 50 years. Over the years... The things that every community foundation kind of does. Exactly, and I would also say that we are one of about 900 community foundations around the country. We have about 20 or so in Colorado, and... And all community foundations, even though we say you've met one community foundation, you've met one community foundation, generally speaking, they all do that. They all have donor advice funds. They all have donor advice funds. They're working with philanthropy. They're working with local causes and needs. So that is fairly common. And then when you get beyond that bucket is where community foundations tend to differ. You're more different or… Yes, more differenter. So our second bucket, which I think is the one that we have elevated since I was with you last, and that is how do we support the nonprofit sector? Recognizing that the nonprofit sector, when we have a strong, healthy, vibrant nonprofit sector, we're all better off. It impacts all of our quality of life, whether it's nonprofits that are focused on food security, conservation, arts and culture, you name it. And so we also believe that philanthropic dollars go further when we have a strong, healthy community. vibrant nonprofit sector. So we take a look at ways that- That's the action arm for that philanthropy. Exactly. So how do we, not only through our grant making, and so we do put about $16.5 million into the community each year, but beyond that grant making- How can we help through perhaps it's low interest loans, perhaps it's through training and capacity building and building peer networks? How do we build up the nonprofit sector and help them be the best that they can be? So that is a bucket of our work. Well, the most efficient that they can be as well. Exactly. So that we get the outcomes as a community that we're hoping to get that impact all of our lives. So that's bucket number two. Okay. body of work for us. And that's where we're digging into regionalism and what are the biggest community needs out there and how can the community foundation step in and help the community work towards solutions. Specifically with that regionalism lens. Exactly. So you might be familiar with our intersections report, which was a regional community needs assessment. So we use data and say, what are the issues that we're facing? We all know that we have been facing rapid growth. It has slowed a little bit, but still, what are the impacts of that growth, whether it's on our transportation systems, our housing affordability, our water availability? And so some of those really big, complex issues that need to be solved regionally and not in silos. And so we use data and then we bring people together. Kind of be an aggregator of not just financial resources to do these kinds of studies and things, but also to bring... Enough of the right voices to the table. Exactly. In that bucket, I call us the kitchen table, right? Let us be the regional kitchen table to bring the right people together. We are not necessarily the experts, but we can get the right people around the table to have the right conversation so that we can work towards solutions to some of these big, big, wicked challenges that we face. Yeah. Can I be so bold as to ask what are the big wicked challenges, you know, and from whatever lens it's appropriate? Sure. I think none of them would surprise you. And if you looked at the intersections report, which really gave us, I think, for the first time, a shared – language, and looking regionally. And so the issues that were surfaced, again, no surprise. And people can find that on your website, by the way? Yep, nocofoundation.org. And if you go to intersections or the community engagement section, you'll see that. And we can talk a little bit more about that because we're actually starting to work on version two of that initiative. But the issues are transportation, transportation. affordability of housing, child care, issues around workforce, which are tied to the other issues of housing, aging. We have a very rapidly aging population, which then puts pressures on our- Everybody was 35 when I moved here. Right. Right. Nobody's 35. No, nobody's 35. So mental health- Transportation, workforce issues, housing affordability, and water, I say, are the ones that generally bubble to the top. And the two that the NOCO Foundation has chosen to really lean in on are water and housing. And so as the conversation goes on, we can talk more about that. But the other issues we felt like were... There were enough people that were already working on those issues and that there was really not a value add for us to come into the conversation. But we've been working on water and water sustainability for about a decade. And then housing is a new initiative. The big thing seems to be liability on the associations and the build quality and the insurability on the condos. The condos. So that's a big... It's so that more people should have condos, but the... The legal situation is such that people aren't building them because they can't take the risk. So, yes, that is a big part of the issue. Yes. And so we published actually two weeks ago a new report, first ever regional report on housing. And it's called Housing at a Crossroads. And it really is an invitation to the community to say – We cannot continue on our current trajectory. We need to come together, and no solution should be off the table. We're going to have to really look at things creatively if we're going to change the trajectory. And the trajectory is pretty harsh. Larimer County is actually the worst area. There was a study that was done recently. Like income to housing costs? Yes, so income to housing. So they call it a housing mismatch. And of all the counties in Colorado, Larimer has the most, the highest mismatch of wages to housing affordability. And it was when I moved here in 1999. My pay went up $2,000 a year and my housing went up $5,000 a year. Already it was mismatched 27 years ago. And it has just progressed. And so that unaffordability factor has grown exponentially. And what's interesting, if you look at our demographic shifts, so I mentioned our growth is slowing, right? It's still rapid. We're still rapidly growing. Some pockets, particularly in Fort Collins, have slowed in growth. But other pockets in Larimer County, so Timnath and Severance and Weld County is still growing. But what we're seeing is a change in household demographics. And so you alluded to this a moment ago. We are aging. And so we have a need for – our household size has shrunk. People are not having as many children. They're having fewer children. And so over the years, our household size has shrunk. Extra – there's too many big houses. And – We are building houses. Our housing size gets bigger and bigger and bigger over the last 10 years, and our household size is shrinking. So we have a mismatch in what we're building, and a big part of that you mentioned, it's a variety of reasons why. One is just the regulatory environment and the fees are such that it is actually more economical to build a bigger house anymore. And we've made it through policy so difficult for builders to build condos because of the construction defect law and the liability that you mentioned. So we are not building the right size that we need. And that has just exacerbated the issue. I had Ryan and Sarah Woodland on just recently. Are they out? No, not yet. But they're Woodland family homes, and they're building a bunch of luxury patio homes over in West Greeley right off the Puda River. And just that demographic. There's a lot of 1,400 square feet ranches, three-bedroom, two-bath kind of stuff. Very nice. Right. Because it's for that 55-year-old person that wants to age in place kind of. Right. Right. Exactly. But that's who's moving here. Right. And in Greedy and in Weld County, they have a need for all types of housing. Yeah. And in Larimer County, we have a more desperate need for smaller so that as older adults age in place, they can downsize. Yeah. And families, as they grow, have something to grow into. But the whole market is just backwards right now. It should look more like my neighborhood, which is downtown Fort Collins, circa 1905, where everything is a two-bedroom, one-bath bungalow. And we're not building that anymore. And that's what most people kind of need. Yeah. Yeah, I think 10%. I think the statistic that I saw was 10% of what we're building right now is actually that two-bedroom, one-bath bungalow or cottage or two-two, which is really what people need, yet we're still building three-, four-, five-bedroom homes. Interesting. It's interesting to me that in some ways the role that you're talking about here is almost a little bit like the old days, newspaper men and the bankers from these various regions and interests and stuff that would have these kind of community conversations. And sometimes it would be in the media. Right. Right. People writing opinion pieces and stuff trying to sway public opinion. But there isn't really a media anymore. And the bankers, for the most part... are working for a much bigger organization that doesn't care much about that particular town except for how many dollars they can make from it. And so it doesn't have that kind of industry leaders kind of element. You've got chambers of commerce, of course, and that's part of your role as getting those cats all in the same room sometimes and stuff, I suppose. Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting analogy, and I hadn't thought about it quite like that, but I think you're right. And so what we're trying to do in many cases is elevate the issues and bring – Turning you into journalists. Exactly. And use data and bring people together and bring leaders together with a common desire to do better and create – really the community we want to have for our kids and our grandkids. I don't, I think nobody would want a community where their kids and their grandkids can't afford to live here. Heard. Um, right. So, and so I think that is, we are this, the NOCO foundation is we say, you know, sometimes we're Switzerland. We don't have an agenda. We want to use data, elevate issues and bring people around the table to have conversation. Um, Your office is in Fort Collins, though, right? So you like Fort Collins a little more than Greeley and Levely? Yeah. We're in South Fort Collins on Harmony Road. As close to the triangle as we can be. Exactly. We're really... Windsor is probably the most diplomatic spot. We host lots of meetings in Windsor. And, but we're really, we're really cognizant of that. And in fact, we're, we've grown out of our current office space and we're in the process of looking. Oh, is that right? And that's been a big part of the conversation is we want, we need to be somewhere centrally located so that we can represent Greeley and Windsor and Berthoud and Johnstown equally. Well, and for the maybe less initiated and even just to refresh my memory, you weren't the NOCO Foundation forever. There was – it was something else. And then you – like the Sterling area even as part of your scope now or something? So the very quick – I'll give you the story and the evolution. So we started in 1975. Okay. So we just celebrated 50 years last year. And we started as the Fort Collins Foundation. That's what I thought. And it was a group of community leaders that wanted to turn Lincoln Middle School into a performing arts center, which is now the Lincoln Center. And so a group of community leaders got together and they needed an organization, an entity to house a vessel to house the funds that they were raising. So that's how we got started. Yeah. And over time, we became not the Fort Collins Community Foundation. We became the Community Foundation for Northern Colorado. And so then we were serving all of Larimer County and Berthoud and Loveland and Estes Park are part of our geography. And then 10 years ago, the six counties on the far side. northeastern plains joined us and so we've got sterling and hexton and holyoke and ray and yuma and all of those communities are part of our geography as well and that expansion happened 10 years ago But that bypassed Weld County. It's interesting. Is there a Weld County Foundation too? There is a Weld County Community Foundation. We're very good friends. Okay. But what I would say, and kind of back to those buckets, when we do our traditional community foundation work and we're working with donors and helping them with their philanthropy, we don't really work in Weld County because there is a Weld County. You're honoring that. We're honoring that. But when we do our third bucket work, of regional solutions to complex challenges. You can't do that without Weld. Right, right. And so we do work in Weld. Well, and the lines are fuzzy too, right? Like a lot of my members at Local Think Tank, for example, might have a business that operates in Weld County, but they live in Fort Collins or their business is in Fort Collins and has been for 25 years. It's where their whole network is. Exactly. But they live in Windsor now because the Spelgut Lakes is sweet. Exactly. They're kind of these arbitrary borders that matter in some instances. But in most instances these days, they don't matter. I'll use myself as an example. So my family and I live in Timnath. My office is in Fort Collins. My son lives in Greeley. My dogs go to daycare in Severance. I go to the grocery store in Windsor. Yeah. You're crossing the county line all the time. All day long. Good thing you're not smuggling drugs or illegal booze or something. And I don't think my situation is uncommon. And we don't think about it. We go where we need to go when we're crossing borders all day long. So why would we try to solve some of our most complex issues with these arbitrary borders? Yeah. So especially in that regionalism context. bucket is that where a lot of your interaction with the weld foundation would occur so we invite and they don't they don't do that kind of work per se and so we just invite them to partner with us in the work that we're doing regionally and um and they're part of those conversations yeah and then know some of the people that you need to make sure are invited to that conversation exactly exactly so they're terrific partners So one of the big initiatives that you launched, I guess it was, I don't know if it was a launch or a relaunch or is it, is it give next or give, was really that focus on inviting younger and. I guess aspiring philanthropists to the conversation? So one of our strategic priorities is to inspire the next generation of philanthropists. And again, by teaching that anybody can be a philanthropist. So I think what you're talking about is a program called Give Next. Okay. And it's really a program that is of the Bohemian Foundation, and it works with middle and high school students throughout the Poudre School District. And we are a partner in that work, and so we help execute and help do that. But you have an initiative on your front, too. We have – then we also – so – You're part of that. So we're part of that, which are younger kids. And then we said, we really need to launch something that gets and is targeted for what we would call young professionals. Right, right. Who are probably just getting started on their philanthropic journey. They're working, they're raising families, but they care very deeply about giving back. And so we launched a program called NoCo Changemakers. That's what, yep. And it is a cohort program. And what we say, it's sort of a marriage between Give Next, which is this philanthropy training program for kids, and like a leadership Fort Collins or leadership Northern Colorado. So it's a cohort-based model, professional development. It's a group of about 25 young adults. professionals, and I would say we use the term young loosely. If you're young at heart. If you're young at heart and you want to learn more about philanthropy. And they come together once a month for nine months and really do a deep dive into philanthropy. How do you do it? What kind of values drive your philanthropy? How do you create a philanthropic strategy? And then the group does a single $25,000 grant together. And so they have to decide as a group... What's most important and what nonprofit do we want to give to? And in that particular part of the program, again, it's a partnership with Bohemian. And so they match those grant-making dollars with us to make it a more meaningful pot of money for the changemakers to grant. So Bohemian is also very interested in how do we inspire the next generation. Yeah, and that's some of that collaborative notion. Like they don't want to necessarily do all that. Leg work to help inspire that, but if they can supplement and advocate. It's a great partnership. Yes. Very cool. Yeah. What else would you have me know about your buckets? My buckets. I think what I often say is... is that while the buckets are kind of distinct in the way that I described them, the magic really happens when there is interaction between the buckets. The buckets are not mutually exclusive. And so when we can play matchmaker, for instance, between the donors that we're working with in bucket one and the nonprofits that we're working with in bucket two, Two, that's where we, I think, bring value and we can introduce our donors to nonprofits in the community that are doing work in areas that they are passionate about. And then when we're doing bucket three big regional complex issue work, we want to involve the nonprofits that are engaged in similar work and bring our donors alongside us to help support the work. Thank you to Purpose Driven Wealth of Thriven for sponsoring our Purpose Driven Questions segment. At Purpose Driven Wealth, they believe financial clarity leads to a life of contentment and purpose. Their mission is to help guide clients using a values-driven, stewardship-based approach focused on provision, contentment, and enjoyment. With more than a century of experience, Thriven helps individuals and families navigate life and business transitions and prepare for the future while creating space to live generously and give back in meaningful ways. To learn more about Purpose Driven Wealth, please call 970-330-7411 for a complimentary initial consultation. And now, on to the questions. We have a, we're kind of drifting into some kind of purposeful conversation here, and we have a sponsor, Purpose Driven Wealth Management, Clint Jasperson and his team, and we have likewise some purpose-driven questions. Okay. So I wonder if I can sample you with a couple of these ones. You bet. This is the one I was just reflecting on is, is there a relationship or a circumstance that's having a major impact on your sense of purpose right now or somewhere where that's shifted? We kind of unfolded your greater journey when you were here the first time, but is there an evolution in recent years? I think where what really I've learned about myself and where I find real value and purpose is looking at a community from what I would call like a 30,000 foot level. And more so for me than digging into one particular issue is, I like to figure out like what makes a community tick and who needs to be connected and what role does government, business and nonprofit and philanthropy play in collaboration to make a community be the best that it can be. And so I think that's why I find so much joy in the work at the Community Foundation because that's what – It's the first time you've really had that opportunity to zoom up that high. Exactly. That's what I get to do and make sure that the right people are connected and talking to one another. And we're looking at things from a systems level. It almost sounds like a political platform you could advance to your next stage. Yeah, I don't know about that. I'm not sure about that, Kurt. Let's talk about what is the source of your internal compass and how do you weigh? Like there's a lot of ethical decision making when you're the decider of who's at the table and things like that. How do you make those tough decisions? Goodness, that's kind of it. Let me think about that. I think I think always, I think the philosophy that has driven me there is, who's not at the table that needs to be? And who else needs to know are kind of two questions that no matter what we're working on and what issue we're working to solve, always asking who else needs to be at the table and who else needs to know. And that usually drives you to the next person, which then to the next, to the next, to the next. Yeah. And so and I think also a philosophy when you're making decisions or when I'm making decisions is – Who will be most impacted by this decision? Who's closest to the impact of the decision and getting their insight and their input before you make a decision? Yeah. This is an interesting drift off of the script here. you've kind of made some changes in your operating model, if you will, especially in terms of I had lunch with Scotty Haps recently, and I've known Mary for years, and you've kind of added to your team and kind of changed how your team interacts with your donors and crowd. Would you like to, well, what I was starting to think about in the ethical decisioning, You kind of poached some of the best players from the nonprofit industry. Did you catch some slack around the community for that? I'm spacing the name of the gal from PSS. Oh, Lindsay. Lindsay is awesome as well. Yes. I mean, I would say that I. They resonated with your mission. Oh, my goodness. We have the best team ever. And I feel so fortunate. And we really have created something special. And I think people want to be there. I think people hear about the work that we're doing and the culture that we've built. And it's exciting, forward looking work. And it has attracted great people. So you don't feel bad. I mean, I do. It's one of those sorry, not sorry kind of things. Sorry, I'm so amazing. But we're all working toward the same good, and I hope that the organizations that... They've forgiven you by now. They've forgiven us. Did you spread them with a little extra grant money or anything to try to soften the blow? Can't do that, but certainly... That would be actually an ethical challenge right there. Yeah, that would not be an ethical challenge right there. But you're right. I think we've got an amazing team, so much energy. Can you talk about their really being kind of more... Not that they weren't engaged before, but that role seems to have expanded to be much more intentional. So here's a specific – I think what you're getting at is something that we call our fund liaison program. And it's really just a portfolio management approach. And it was something that I brought with me from my previous role and we put in place over the last few years at the NOCO Foundation is – And so if you think about the fact that we have more than 600 different funds that we manage, and that's what makes up that $265 million of assets. Sometimes one person has three funds. Sometimes a family of five has one fund. Exactly. And it could be an individual. It could be a business. It could be a family. It could be a nonprofit. But we have 600 customers. And again, it's not exactly numbers because somebody could have multiple. But- How do you manage those? And so when I first got to the Community Foundation, I was asking questions about, okay, so what are our donors? What are they passionate about? What do they fund? And in my head, I was looking for like a pie chart of where's the money going? What are they funding? What passion areas? Is it food insecurity? Is it animals? Is it conservation? Is it, you know, what are they interested in? Yeah. And I didn't feel like at the time we knew the answer to that question. 35% of the people, they do kind of this. The other 65% of the people, we don't really talk to them much. They set up their fund and we kind of let's touch. Right. So we set up a very intentional way to manage those relationships. And it's really about building relationships and managing those relationships, getting to know them, getting to know what they're interested in, Being able to play matchmaker, bring them ideas, connect them to nonprofits in the community. And as a result, after years of the shift, the most telling example of the success is that we were – when I got there, we were granting pretty commonly about $7 million into the community every year. Okay. And after this program took root, we're now granting $16.5 million in the community. Yeah. And so it's really about activating that generosity. Well, I was just thinking about a couple of different things. I went to the Respite Care Luncheon recently, and they talked, obviously, a lot about their new facility and the scope of how many people they can serve at a time and how many families can get respited. And now regional. Totally, right? Mm-hmm. Like some people that love the cause of respite care but haven't really been involved or whatever, when they can hear about a cause like this, oh, here's this new facility that, you know, dropping $100,000 into this capital project can be part of making the difference or whatever. Exactly. I just had Jeff Faust from Love Foco on my podcast as well. I don't know if you're familiar much with the resource center there, but that's pretty fresh and required. Right. You know, a $3 million capital campaign in a 12 or 18-month span and bada-bing, bada-boom. Right. So we see – Generosity activated. Exactly. That's our job, right? We want to activate generosity. And to do that, we have to deeply know and understand the nonprofit organizations in our community, who's doing what, who's launching a capital campaign, who's looking to raise money for a new initiative. So we need to be experts in that so that we can take those opportunities to our donors. This episode is sponsored by Loco Think Tank. Loco Think Tank provides peer collaboration for business owners. We build smart, safe places to help business leaders navigate every stage of the business journey, and we love what we do and who we do it with. Our model features gift-back-minded business veterans in the role of Loco facilitators, and we're always looking for abundance-minded individuals to add to our membership, facilitator team, local community, or to feature on this podcast. Listeners of this podcast who go on to become members of Loco Think Tank get their sixth month of membership for free. Just mention the Loco Experience podcast on your application. To learn more, visit our website at locothinktank.com. That's L-O-C-O thinktank.com. And we're back. So I picked this up, actually, from Scotty Haps last week. He gave me a left behind here. But I guess the thing I wanted to really start with is we talked about donor advised funds and some of your other toolkit things as if we're old pros. And I'm kind of more just conversationally capable. But talk about the mechanics, I guess. Sure. That's kind of one of your big things, right, is that suite of... It is. Services. It is. And I would say that donor advised funds nationally are the fastest growing philanthropic vehicle out there. Oh. It was kind of a new thing when I heard about it 20 years ago or whatever. Yeah. I mean, they have not been around that long. And they are the fastest growing philanthropic tool because they are so flexible and so very, very popular. And so of our 600 plus funds, the highest percentage of those are donor advised funds. Yeah. We also have scholarship funds. And we'll come back and I'll talk more about donor advised funds if you want to do that. Yeah, and endowments and stuff like that too, right? Endowments. And so we house about... 80 different nonprofit organizations, we house their endowment. So of those funds, you know, a big part of them are the nonprofit organizations in the community. If you're holding somebody's money in a donor advised fund and the nonprofit's there too, you're like, we can accommodate that. Exactly. It's just an inner fund transfer. We don't even have to send it out of the building. Don't even have to write a check. Yeah, exactly. And so the highest percentage are donor advised funds and then nonprofit agency endowment funds and then probably something called designated funds, which we can get into if that's of interest. Those are less popular, but a lot of times donor advised funds will... Upon the passing of a donor, they will shift to a designated fund, which is where the donor can lay out. Kind of leave behind instructions almost. Exactly. And so in their lifetime, they can have the flexibility of advising the dollars where they want it to go. And then upon their death, a designated fund is often part of their legacy planning. And then who's the decider? Is that part of your services? You act the most like a trustee? It can be. And so they can either say, I'd like my funds annually to go to these three organizations, which are the same organization that I supported in my lifetime. And if those organizations cease to exist, then our job would be to find something as closely aligned to that. Others donors may say, we trust, we recognize that in time, And in future generations, times will change. Needs will change. And so we recognize that the Community Foundation will be around forever. And we will empower the Community Foundation to make decisions on our behalf. But maybe they might say, but I would like the funds to be spent on education. It's got to be about education and women's health. Exactly. So they can give us categories to make the best community decision. I derailed you a little bit. So that's the designated funds. That's the designated. Third place size-wise. Mm-hmm. Um, scholarship funds so we can administer scholarships and, um, do a lot of scholarship, um, for young people graduating from high school and giving them the opportunity of a college education. But, but far by and far the, the, the big, the big one is chunk is, um, is donor advised funds. So the. And the mechanics. Yeah, so the mechanics, the way that works. And I might start by saying I often get a question from someone who's thinking about a donor-advised fund, and they may say, well, why wouldn't I just – if my favorite nonprofits are Project Self-Sufficiency, Respite Care, and Boys and Girls Club, and I write checks to them every year out of my checkbook, why wouldn't I just keep doing that? Why would I come set up a donor-advised fund and have another layer? Right. both and, or certainly keep doing what feels right to you. I would never discourage anybody from philanthropy. But there are times when if somebody wants to streamline their philanthropy in one place and designate a certain amount of dollars every year into their charitable checking account, let's call it, and keep it all in one place, And do it from there. You have a portal. You can log onto your portal like it's a bank account. Yeah. And you can say, I'd like to make a gift today. I'm going to make a $2,000 grant to... These three organizations, it could be those same three organizations that I noted, but it's all in one place. All the records are in one place. You don't have to go track down tax documentation from each individual nonprofit. And the tax benefit to the donor happens the moment that those dollars come to the community foundation. So in many cases, when there is a big event in someone's life. Yeah, I was thinking like, well, if you have some really highly appreciated real estate or stock. Highly appreciated real estate or stock or you are selling a business or there could be an inheritance, some kind of big life event. That would potentially mean a significant chunk of those dollars would go to Uncle Sam. You can make philanthropy part of that plan and set up a donor advised fund as part of that process and avoid some of those capital gains taxes or other taxes. And then you can park those dollars into a donor advised fund. You only have one tax letter. You still got to be the decider of where it goes down the road. And then you have time to, like sometimes when something happens quickly and you need to unload a property or appreciated stock and you don't know exactly what charity you want to give it to. So you can take a breath, put it in the donor advised fund, and then have time to think about what your strategy might be. Well, and not just make a one and done decision. Exactly. Like you can spread it between five or 10 or 20 organizations, but still get that upfront tax benefit. And, yes. I'm all about – So Uncle Sam ought to talk about this. Well, yeah. I mean, would you rather give the money to the Boys and Girls Club or Uncle Sam? Like, that's an easy one in my book. But the other thing is a donor advised fund, the funds are invested. So they're growing. So, you know, as an example, my husband and I started a donor advised fund a few years ago with – a certain amount of money that is still in the fund, yet we have granted about $15,000 into the community and the principle is still the same. We still have more than you started with. And that's the, that's the value of, of compounding interest and investment. So the dollars are growing. It's all streamlined in one account. You still get to choose where the dollars are going. And, and, You can also build it into your legacy planning. So we have a lot of donors who will start involving their kids and their grandkids in the process. And sometimes there's a family meeting to talk about, okay, we have 10 grand to split around. What do we want to do as a family and what's important to us? And so it really prompts some important values-based conversations that can lead into family philanthropy. Yeah. Yeah. Those investments, like, is that almost like a financial planner? Can you invest riskier based on your timeline? You can. And is it the foundation that is the decider, the investment guru? So we have three different investment options that donors can choose from. Like tame, medium, and let's go get it. Exactly. It's, you know, balanced growth and conservative. Right, right. And... And then donor advised funds of a certain size can actually be managed outside of the foundation and folks sometimes want to keep their own money manager. Have their own money manager or something. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It's house money kind of at that point, right? Most of the dollars. You're like trying to get it bigger so you can be more generous later. Yeah. But most of the dollars are invested with us in one of those three funds that you can choose from. Yeah. And so when people ask me, well, what's the minimum – like how much do I have to put in to start a donor-advised fund? And so the minimum investment is $25,000 to start a donor-advised fund. And some people say, wow, I would have thought it was much more than that. And others say – Great. That's still beyond my means. So I mentioned earlier that the No-Code Changemakers program, where we're teaching young professionals philanthropy. So we started a new product and launched a new product that is almost like a donor-advised fund light, if you will. Like a good savings account. Yeah. And so you can start a Change makers account for $5,000. And so if someone is ready to get on their journey, it's much more approachable. And so there's a way to start a donor advised fund with $5,000. I was thinking about when you were talking about that Changemakers cohorts earlier, and I didn't reflect on it, but you were talking about how it's kind of a little bit flexible. It's kind of young professionals, but there's a lot of young professionals that have made a career change. You know, I worked 20 years in government. I was sick of that. I started this business now. Or things like that where they've got a real vested interest in engaging with the community and learning and building a network that isn't whatever job that they were doing for corporate for the last 20 years. So that's why we use the term young professional loosely. So we have some – I bet our cohort goes from 25 years old to 50. Right, right. It's just someone who hasn't yet felt like they have fully engaged in the community from a philanthropic standpoint and wants to engage, then that's who we want. Right? What else would you have people know about where you're going? Is there some big, you know, far out, five-year kind of vision stuff that you and your board are talking about these days? We have set... A few years ago, we set some really big, ambitious goals. We call them our BHAG goals, our big, hairy, audacious goals. Nod to Jim Collins. And we would like to double our assets under management and so get to $500 million of assets under management so that we can have $250 million granted in the community. So it's really the granting into the community effort. is really the main goal. Over that period of time. But to do that, it's the engine that drives that is having more assets under management. And what's the period certain for that? So we said 10 years, and we're about three and a half years into that 10-year goal. And we're tracking. Okay. Trajectory is okay. Exactly. It's not a done deal by far. But, you know, we will get there even if we had to extend the timeline a little bit. I'm not sure. But I'm a big believer that you've got to set big goals and stretch and push. And, you know, even if you don't quite get there, you're probably still further along. And so then the third leg of that stool of the three goals is to really be the go-to organization that people think about when we need to come together regionally and solve big problems. Yeah, yeah. So those are the big goals. I would also add to that the one big initiative that we have taken on just recently is affordable and attainable housing, which we talked a little bit about earlier. But that is a big one that we just in the last year have decided to – We're going to put some resources into this. We're going to put some resources. We've hired a staff person who is dedicated only to housing through the generosity of one of our donors. Wow. Frankly. So one of our fund holders, our donor advised fund holders, said that they would fund this new position for us for the first three years. Interesting. So that we could build our capacity for housing. It's a passion project, obviously, for them. But you spending one-eighth of your time on it is not going to make a meaningful impact, really. Exactly. So we need to have – we need to – increase that. And you're... I forget what their titles are, Lindsay and Scott and Mary and stuff. Philanthropy Advisors. Yes. And do they... They're account managers in such a way that they get to know people and make sure they're activating their generosity and stuff. But are they also hunters? They are. So they're going to find more people to engage with your organization. And I think what we find a lot is that people... know about the community foundation, the NOCO foundation, and they maybe know about donor advised funds, but they don't always fully understand how it works. And so there's a lot of education that we can do. And we try to do it in a very, you know, non-judgmental way. We do something called philanthropy socials, where we'll just do a happy hour with folks and share a little bit about what we do and how we do it. We do something I host... Every other month I host President's Lunch and Learns, where we invite 20 people in for lunch to learn our story. And so I think just constantly sharing our story so more and more people can be ambassadors for us. And anybody out there that wants to really fine tune and streamline their philanthropy, that they think of us as their go-to. Is the podcast going to continue to have investment into it in the months ahead as well? Do you have a guest slate upcoming as well? Yes, we do. We do. We have a housing episode that is about to launch where Anne Hutchison from the Chamber and Brooke Cunningham, who is our staff person on housing. Oh, is that right? Yeah. She was neighbor to neighbor. She was neighbor to neighbor. So she's a subject matter expert for sure. She is another one that we poached. Right. You're getting a reputation. Oh, I know. It's okay. Hi, Brooke, if you're listening. Miss you at Rotary. So, yeah. Yeah, and so going to Rotary, for instance, and that's another great way to share our story. But, yeah. By the way, it feels like you should be a Rotarian. Do you have any Rotary roots? I don't have any Rotary roots, but here's a fun story. When I first came to the Community Foundation, and I just hit my five-year mark, I... Okay. The first group that I went to speak to in the community was the Breakfast Rotary Club. Oh, that's my club. Is that your club? That's my club. And I will never forget how nervous I was because I didn't... Yeah, you were kind of new to town too, right? New town, new position, the language I wasn't yet fully familiar with, you know, daffs and this and complex assets. Exactly. And I just, I remember that and it's just sort of, you know. And how did we treat you? You all were great. And it was, you know, I survived and I think I did okay. I must have been playing hooky that day. Do you don't remember that? I don't think so. It was my very first kind of community engagement. So anyway. Well, it seems like you have the heart of a Rotarian. I do. I love Rotarians. And I love that, like, I lived in Denver for almost 20 years and like Rotary is kind of not a thing in Denver. Yeah, I mean, they've got some clubs and stuff, but it's more vibrant here for sure. Yeah, it is. And I love that. Well, it's because we have that sense of community. And like the Loveland Rotary Club and the Greeley Rotary Club is one of the bangers of the whole region. Really strong. And Kiwanis and Sertoma and service clubs, they're just really strong and really active. And I think you're right. It speaks to the overall environment of how people care. Yeah. Let's talk about you more. Okay. Like when we're talking about your work and how great the people at the Community Foundation are and stuff, but... How do you spend your time when you're not at work? Do you want to give a shout out to your special fella, your kids, things like that? Yeah. My youngest probably would be embarrassed, but I'll embarrass him anyway. So my husband, John, we've been married 18 years and moved up here together five years ago. We were all in Denver together. Second marriage for both of us. Okay. And so it's a little bit of a blended Brady Bunch family. Nice long-term second marriage. Yes. So he has four adult children. Three live in Denver. One's in Seattle. We have one grandchild in Denver. Okay. Who's three. Awesome. Awesome. And then I have one adult son who lives in Greeley. Okay. And then we have one son together. Okay. Charlie. And how old is Charlie? He's 15. He just turned 15. So it's like he's an only child because his siblings are never really had. But, you know, he is at Timnath Middle High School. We live in Timnath. He plays tennis. Just got his learner's permit. Oh, that's exciting. Has he got some game on the ping pong table? A lot of times kids with tennis players are the kids that beat me. Yeah. Yep. He's got good ping pong skills. I don't know. Some video game that they were all waiting for just dropped last weekend. And it was a driving game. Oh. So anyway, I think. Well, that's good. He should pass the learner's permit test. Exactly. I think there's something to that. So he's been playing this game. He's been eager for driving. Very much so. Driving. It's funny, my older son did not, like, I don't know, it was years before he was really engaged. Sometimes kids are like, oh, I guess I'm 19 now, I should get my driver's license. We were like itching for it when we were 14. We were like in line the minute we were old enough. So yeah, Charlie was more like that. And so he's driving, he's driving mostly with me. I think we've realized, my husband is the first to say, like, he's probably not good at being the driver's. parent driver, um, without a passenger side, um, Is your husband good at being the passenger when you're driving? No, no. So he comes by it, he comes by it honestly, and it carries through. He likes to tell me how to drive. Um, so anyway, so Charlie and I are going to probably do most of the driving together. Um, Let's see. How do we spend our time? We have a cabin up on the way to Red Feather. Oh, cool. And so we spend as much time as we can up there. Yeah. And it's nice because it's only, you know, a little bit more than an hour away. Right. So it's easy to get up there. My wife and I go up there quite a bit. A friend of ours has some property in Crystal Lakes. Yep. Yep. So we're not far from there. And... So hiking and stuff? Yeah, hiking. Canoeing? Canoeing. Use the lakes? Not really canoeing. We haven't really used the lakes. Do you paddle boards? But hiking. Paddle boating is something that I want to do. Oh, paddle board. Paddle boarding. Sorry. I knew when I said that it wasn't right. I want to learn paddle boarding. I've been once or twice, but I think I would really like. And you don't have to feel self-conscious about standing and not falling in and stuff. They're great, especially inflatable ones. You can throw four of them in the back of your car and go inflate them at the lake, float around all day completely freely, and then unpack them back up and throw them in your shed. That's what I love about it. Yeah, I think I would really like that. So I need to check that out. You heard, when's your birthday, Kristen? December. We don't want to wait that long. Early birthday present, Memorial Day weekend. There you go. Yeah, something like that. And I grew up in Louisiana on the water. And so I was a big fan. We were a big sailing family and just beaches all nearby. And so I do miss the water. So I think I would enjoy that. Do you get beaches in your life regularly? And where do you choose? I try as hard as I can. So my family is more of a, well, only because, yes, I work too hard. But I love it, so it doesn't feel like I work too hard. But I was mostly saying my family would. If they had a choice, they would choose to ski and go to the mountains on any vacation. I see. And I'm outnumbered. You're competing for that. Because my choice would probably be go to the beach. Gotcha, gotcha. So every once in a while, they throw me a bone and we go to the beach. But most vacations. Two out of three times. Exactly. Most vacations. Up to the hills. So we have this trip coming this summer where we're going to Norway and we're going to Scandinavia. So Norway and Sweden. So there's water involved for you. There is some water. But it's kind of like winter. It is. And Charlie, our son, and his friend kind of came up with this idea and this itinerary and pitched it to us. And like, how do you say no to two 15-year-old boys who have made this whole presentation? Take it. So we're going to Scandinavia, but I thought, Charlie, don't you want to go to Greece or like somewhere really nice and warm? Yeah. Here's a tip for your backyard at the cabin is molky. Molky. M-O-L-K-K-Y. Okay. It's like the Finnish summer cabin tradition. And there's a dozen pins and you throw a big pin at it and you score by either how many pins you knock down. Okay. Or by the number on the top of the one pin. If you only get one pin, then you get that number. Okay. and then you stand them up where they fell. So the game kind of spreads. It's kind of a math. Okay. Mulky. Yeah, check it out. Okay, I will check. M-O-L-K-K-Y. It's a beautiful game for beautiful weather and fun people, and it plays small and packs small. Nice. So especially since you're going to, if you're going to show up there in Norway or if you go into Finland at all and show off your Mulky skills that are already evident, you will impress a lot of people. Okay, good to know. Um, and what do you think Charlie's going to do with himself? I know he's young yet, but is he going to be a doctor, a lawyer, a race car driver? Um, He is such a great kid. I'll brag for a moment because he just has a good head on his shoulders. And so he is a good student and an athlete. I don't know what he's going to do. He's really good in math and science. Won't hurt him. And won't hurt him. And he's a bit of a perfectionist, and I don't know where he gets that. I'm sure his dad knows. They recently took the PSAT as a freshman, right? Yeah, yeah. And he came home and he said, I'm going to shoot for a perfect score. And I thought... Who on earth cares about getting a perfect score on the PSAT? But Charlie did. And he came home and he got his scores recently. And he was like two questions off of getting a perfect score. Very impressive. He is very impressive. But I don't know. He'll do something. He'll do something. But probably math, science related. Yeah, dig it. You mentioned at the break that you are not a hot sauce aficionado, but that you are willing. I'm game. And so I'm going to break this out a little bit. Talk to me about when you do have hot sauce in your life, how are you doing it? How am I doing it? Okay. Well, my favorite food is Mexican. And so I probably, yeah. So that gives you an opportunity to have some hot sauce. And I don't know. Do you have a favorite local hot sauce, like a horse tooth hot sauce or anything like that? I don't think I know enough to know. You're a dabbler, not a... Yeah, but I'm a good sport and I'm game for almost anything. So I'm up for whatever challenge you're about to pass my way. I'm going to just wash my hands real good right before we came back from the break. I'm going to give you a drip-drip and a more substantial option. And when I do eat really hot things... I get sweaty. I get sweaty, too. So that's what I'm anticipating. You won't get sweatier than me, I promise. Oops, that one's quite a bit. But not too bad, though. This is made by Matador Mexican Grill, where you can pick up your own crazy ginger hot sauce. I clarified with Ginger Graham that I was not thinking about her when I came up with this hot sauce. Crazy ginger. But it's got a lot of fresh ginger, fresh garlic, a lot of habaneros, and peaches is the number one ingredient. Interesting. So grab any of those that look compelling to you. Okay. And you can move your face away from the microphone a little bit if you don't want people to hear the crunch too bad. Okay. All right. Tell me when. Okay. We'll do it now. Okay. I'm going to be looking for your tasting notes once you've had a chance to process. It's burning the tip of my tongue. What was the first contact point for you? Mm-hmm. Okay, I can do that. You want another one? Yeah, I can do that. You can take your choice there when you're ready. I like it. I'm already sweating a little bit. I've got a light glaze. I feel, yeah, I feel my face heating up. I feel like I'm turning red. Mm-hmm. So you would say that you do endorse the crazy ginger hot sauce, is that true? Yeah, it's good. Got a good flavor. You're right down by there. Matador Mexican Grill is just down the street from you. So if you would like to add that to your... They have really good breakfast burritos. They do have really good breakfast burritos. I miss it. There's two things that I miss about banking, because I worked down there right across the street. Capital West Bank was my last stop. I miss the expense account that somebody else pays for. And I miss... Working kitty corner across the street. I've never really had that in the nonprofit sector. That's not really a thing. You don't know? Like you can't – if you buy me lunch, NoCo Foundation doesn't pay for that? No, they will. But it isn't – it's just you think about it and you think about like what's appropriate and what's not. Oh, sure. It's not like there's an expense account that you don't. True. So that's the only thing. But when it's the bank's money, it's just different than when it's my money. Yeah. No, I hear you. For sure. The NOCO Foundation has a lot of money. Yeah. And you're a steward at heart. And everything that we're spending on lunch is money that's not being spent in the community. So, like, that goes through your mind as you're thinking about it. But, no, we can – we'll buy you lunch. Fair enough. Especially if you're considering opening a donor advice fund. Exactly. If I can get you to open a donor advice fund, I'll buy you two lunches. And I have stumped Kristen momentarily on the loco experience that she would like to share, but I have the opportunity to offer a loco experience, which is the most local spirits you can get just about is seed and spirit distilling. That's our spirit sponsor. Yeah. And this is their signature product, Whizcal, a Mezcal whiskey blend that makes for wonderful cocktails. But for the purposes of this show, we're just going to shoot it. All right. I'm intrigued. Are you ready for that? I think I am. I can hand this to you. Okay. I had no idea who was going to get all these refreshments and snacks on the show. It's a full local experience. Thank you to the sponsors. Sure. Thanks to Seed and Spirit, and thanks to the Community Foundation. Thanks for being here. Cheers. Thank you. And we'll need your tasting notes here as well. Ooh. Do you like mezcal? I do. Do you like whiskey? Yeah. Well, kind. Not as much. I'm not a huge whiskey fan, but I like it like that. Okay, good. Yeah, that's different. Would you choose Mezcal over that usually, though, because it's got that little bit more smoky? Yeah, I would. Yeah, no, that's good. Cool. Okay. Well, shout out. You've got another happy sampler out here, Seed and Spirit. Good job, Joel. No, but these guys actually went as far as to grow some of their own... grain and harvest it like they bought an old combine down by Alamosa. You're kidding. Yeah. So they're like hyper local and do it all, all the way from bottom to top. Very nice. So, and they have a tasting room opening soon in the former Funkworks, maybe a month out. Really? Yeah. So go check it out. Okay. I will. Have you thought of any, oh, instead of maybe the local experience that you thought you were going to share, let's just talk about the, the most inebriated you've ever been. Oh, goodness. Okay. Well, you're speaking to someone who grew up in New Orleans. Okay. All right. And so I started young. You have been on that train before. What was culturally normal around there? Well, growing up in that culture and in that environment where drinking and partying was just a big... Part of everything. And at the time, the drinking age was 18. So that was an added... Which meant the real drinking age was 15. Exactly. And so it was kind of a crazy environment. I think about my poor mother and my parents having to put up with me growing up. And this was before we had cell phones and before you could be in touch. So anyway, I... But you were still... pretty young gal out there partying. I was, yeah. I kind of got most of it out of my system in high school, to be honest with you. And I went to college, went to the University of Georgia in Athens, and my friends didn't quite know what to make of me because... You were already done with your party? Yeah. So I taught them a thing or two. But then I kind of settled down in college. So you're not going to tell us about the specific most inebriated that you recall? Well, I remember it had something to do with Jägermeister. How about we just leave it at that? I actually worked at a restaurant in college, and that was kind of the standing shift closing shot. It was a shot of Jägermeister. In the freezer? Yep, yep. It was ice cold. And... It got to the point where you're looking forward to the end of your shift anyway, because it means I can go party in downtown or whatever. But I would start salivating as soon as somebody poured a shot of Jägermeister, even if it wasn't for me. I'd be like, does that mean it's the end of my shift? A Pavlovian response there. Yeah, I had a very Pavlovian. It isn't as strong anymore, but I can still enjoy a good Jägermeister. I came to it, honestly, because my Dutch grandfather, I can remember him. having a bottle of Jägermeister in the freezer growing up. Had a little nip whenever. Yep, yep. Have you thought of a proper loco experience story to share to end our I don't know what a proper one is. I feel like there's so much pressure, Kurt. I don't know. Eddie, was there an international travel that was really extreme in your lifetime? You backpacked in Borneo or anything like that? When I was in college, a girlfriend and I backpacked for a semester. And so we had a Eurorail pass and a backpack. And I also grew up, my family... is Dutch. And so, um, I had lots of relatives in Holland and we kind of used that as home base, but, um, so yeah, we traveled for a semester and, um, it was. So you were not going to school, obviously. No, we weren't. We traveled. We did a, yeah, we called it our junior year abroad, but really we just, there was no classes involved. We were staying in like hostels and stuff like that. We stayed in hostels. We were, your rail pass, which I'm not even sure exists anymore. And, um, yeah. What we would do is, it was crazy. Okay, here's the local experience for you. We'd go into, we would take overnight trains because it was cheaper. Oh, you could sleep on the train. Yeah, you could sleep on the train. So we would walk, we'd be partying, and then we'd walk into the train station at like 11 and look up at the, at the, you know, at the list to see, and we'd just pick a place to the next train that was going. We'd be like, okay, let's go to Budapest and get on the night train and sleep. And we'd wake up in the morning in Budapest and spend the day and then do the same thing, show up in the train station at 11 p.m. and see where we wanted to go the next day. And, like, how did you get around, like, as far as would you just find a map in the train station when you got to Budapest? Yeah. And you're like, let's go to this sector of town. It looks like downtown. There's probably a cafe open. Yep. Maps. And at that point, really, it was all old school, right? And we didn't have, like, phones and internet and maps that we were carrying on our, you know, on our phones. So, yeah, maps. And you'd find other travelers and just connect. They'd be like, yeah, you should actually definitely go here. Don't bother with Rome. Exactly. A lot of word of mouth by the fellow travelers and the fellow backpackers. I want to do that now. I know. Wouldn't that be great? Let's do it. We could double date, bring our spouses. There you go. Yeah. Just a semester. Travel Europe for months. Yeah. It was awesome. It was really awesome. I dig it. Well, that story actually very well qualifies for the Loco Experience podcast. So thank you. People want to look you up. Do they just find you on your website, on LinkedIn? Are you famous there? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, nocofoundation.org, or you can, Kristen Todd, on LinkedIn. Cool. I'm pretty easy to find. Go subscribe and listen and then give a review for Noco Voices. Noco Voices. Find us and follow us. And yeah, follow us on LinkedIn. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing time. You bet. Thanks for having me. Great to have you. It's a pleasure. Bye for now. Hi, this is Kurt Baer, host of The Loco Experience. And I wanted to let our listeners know that beginning in June of 2026, we're going to be releasing podcast episodes on Wednesday mornings instead of on Saturdays. So we've tested Saturdays for a while. Meh. Honestly, we were better on Wednesdays before. So we're heading back to that. And I hope to see you there every Wednesday with a new episode of The Loco Experience.