The LoCo Experience

EXPERIENCE 92 | Aaron Everitt Delivers the Goods on the Real Estate Market

December 05, 2022 Alisha Jeffers
The LoCo Experience
EXPERIENCE 92 | Aaron Everitt Delivers the Goods on the Real Estate Market
Show Notes Transcript

Aaron Everitt is a regular guest of the LoCo Experience, with this being his fourth appearance. He’s well-connected in Fort Collins as a real estate broker for Resident Realty, operating a delivery service provider organization, and now adding a local commercial delivery service to the mix called InMotion. We’re happy to announce that InMotion is our first official outside sponsor of the the LoCo Experience.

This episode will kick off our once-quarterly real estate update with Aaron. He’ll share insight to things like local interest rates, inventories, seller motivations, financing options and market opportunities. 

In this particular conversation, we also spend some time discussing politics and current events, and Aaron lets us in on the story of his latest venture in partnership with his friend for a new online business. 

Episode Sponsor: InMotion, providing next-day delivery for local businesses. Contact InMotion at inmotionnoco@gmail.com

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Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Aaron Everett is a repeat guest with this being his fourth time visiting the local experience. Aaron operates a delivery service provider organization, is a real estate broker with Resident Realty and operates a local commercial delivery service called In Motion. This episode will serve as our once quarterly real estate update. So, of course we'll be talking about interest rates, inventories, seller motivations, financing options, and the always so notion of opportunity in any market. We'll also be announcing the first outside sponsorship of the LO experience by in motion, providing next day delivery, service of paperwork, signs, distilled spirits, beer, packaged beef, just about anything you can imagine from the Wyoming border to Denver and beyond. And as always, we get into some current events, so we'll get into the Red Trickle election of 2020. And finally, Aaron shares the story of his newest venture in partnership with his pal Scott an online business they call fish rubbers. For all this and more, make sure to tune in.

Curt:

Welcome back to the LO Experience. I'm here today with Aaron Everett again, and, uh, we've struck a deal recently, as we did. Aaron's gonna come on once a quarter at least, and be a, a real estate update, uh, as well as, uh, his company in motion is gonna be a sponsor. Yeah. So thank you.

Aaron:

Yeah, you're welcome. Our first sponsor, this is great. Outside of local think tank. Yeah. You know, well when you sponsor yourself, it's, it's free so

Curt:

Right. Basically I've just got half of my staff's time working on producing this dumb podcast that gets 150 lessons. An episode

Aaron:

Well, you know, it's 150 people that wouldn't, you wouldn't

Curt:

know otherwise. Right. And some of them need in motions services. They do. And everyone could use it. Everyone. Yes. Yeah. Except if you need fish rubbers, cuz. Well, that's different. We'll talk about that later. Aaron, my friend, it's, uh, it's good to have you here. Thanks for, I love it when people bring. Booze. Yeah, absolutely. I usually, I provide the booze for this.

Aaron:

This one's, uh, this is kind of fun. This is something we're doing with that in motion company that we're talking about. Okay. We'll talk about a little bit later. But yeah, we ended up, I, I've been puzzled for a long time. I have a good friend that was in, uh, the bar business. Okay. And, um, he kind of always mentioned that alcohol stuff was just such a troublesome spot for him in terms of trying to get good representation of the beers or of the, of the booze that somebody's bringing. And so, and a lot of that comes because of the mechanisms that are out there, distribution mechanisms. Okay. And distribution has a strain on both sides of it. The, the strain on the user that's on the other end and the strain on the person that's actually making the beer or the, or the liquor. If they can't keep up with the distribution needs, then they can't really get into that arena. Then distribution tends to typically cut your margin down anyway. Right? And the guy on the other end is, if they are small, then they're usually getting a delivery driver that doesn't know anything about it. So we, we've kind of been able to provide a little bit of a solution here. And so this booze that I brought you are two different distilleries that we, uh, are actually

Curt:

selling for actual real Colorado

Aaron:

craft. Both are actual real Colorado craft distilleries where they're doing, uh, farm to bottle, I guess is what it would be called. So Thai Brothers is one of them. That's what I'm drinking here. Uh, that's a really nice bourbon. They've got a nice, uh, weeded whiskey. And then, uh, the other one I brought you is, uh, Balmer Peak and they do, they do quite a bit of things. So I've had that before. Yeah. Yeah. They do quite a bit of things. They're both out, one of 'em outta Longmont, one's outta Denver, and we're helping getting 'em up into Northern Colorado. So if you see 'em at your local liquor store, buy 'em. You're buying something local.

Curt:

Awesome. You know, we talked about doing the real estate update first, but it feels like we might as well just talk about like what you've been kind of up to Sure. The most since last time. And we mentioned it in a previous conversation, but left it as kind of mysterious. Yeah.

Aaron:

So in motion is this kind of fun little side project that has turned into something larger than that? Yeah. Um, I was approached by a, um, a real estate company to help them install their signs, which is a kind of a troublesome deal for real estate companies. you know, some people, some real estate companies just have the realtor go out and do that installation on its own. Yeah. Some people provide that as a part of their service, but the people that provide it as a service, as a part of their desk fees or whatever Right. Um, it's a pain in their, but it's a pain. Yeah. It's a lot. And it's a lot of work. So it was approached by somebody to see if I could help solve that problem. Okay. Um, and I think why

Curt:

is it that the real estate companies don't just say, Hey realtor, you're gonna make a bunch of money when you sell this, go put your own damn.

Aaron:

Well, their perspective is you're better off, you're better served taking that hour or whatever it's gonna be to go try to build business, to try to get another

Curt:

listing. You're just a sign monkey that gets 15 bucks an hour or correct. Whatever. Right. No offense to the sign monkeys. No

Aaron:

none taken. Uh, so I think it, it just kind of gives them the, their, I think the philosophy, well, this is Larry Kendall's deal at the group, which is like you focus on your business. Yeah. You work on your business and when you're in

Curt:

your business, you're working on your business. Anybody can install a sign. Yeah. And, and some people can install them poorly. Yep. Or two weeks late after they said they were going to. Yep.

Aaron:

And so this just turns into something that becomes a convenience. It be, it's actually a really high level of customer service. Yeah. If you're, if the broker says, Hey, tomorrow the sign will be here, we'll sign the listing agreement tonight, tomorrow the sign will be in your yard. Um, that's a high level of service that isn't otherwise provided

so

Curt:

well, and that's something that the brokerage company can do to provide that service. To their brokers that pay those desk fees and stuff is actually to deliver on that promise. Yeah.

Aaron:

They don't have to be out there. And if you think about it, if you, you've had a listing in Red Feather or you had a listing in, in whatever cury, that's two hours of your day. Right. And you don't always know when you're gonna go out and do the listing appointment. If you're gonna be able to put the sign in the yard, are you gonna get everything signed that night? It's so it, at the end of the day, it really is. And a lot of stuff is being done digitally anyway these days. Right. So a lot of listing agreements, you know, you're on the phone, you might have talked, you might have done whatever, but you're sending somebody something electronically. So it's not like the old days where you had the real estate sign in your trunk. Right. Right. It's a very different, it's a very different world. And so that high level of service is something that started. So that's, that's what

Curt:

that started s that was

Aaron:

impetus. Yeah. That was the deal that kind of got it started. So, um, and then

Curt:

as I've kind of, cause you already had the, the. Dis delivery business going Yeah. Because

Aaron:

of some of the other stuff I'd already been doing. Yeah. Um, out there, this was, this was just kind of a natural Bolton Yeah. To that whole deal. And so it's been really interesting because what we found is that people are asking us to do things that aren't related to real estate either. Yeah. So we have, um, uh, an Omaha steak type type thing that's coming out of Windsor,

Curt:

a local rancher that packages his

Aaron:

own pumpkin creek. Okay. Um, and they're great. I mean, they have, it's fantastic. Steaks. They have, they, they butcher it and do whatever they're doing. And so it's like they raise the, the cattle in Nebraska, they butcher it there, they freeze it, bring it to Windsor, and then we take it outta Windsor and deliver it all over. Oh, okay. Through Denver and Estes and wherever else anybody wants a steak, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Uh, we're doing overnight or like laundry service. So you get two bags, you fill your bag with, uh, laundry. We run it to a laundromat. The laundromat washes it, and then we deliver it later in the week back to you. Oh, okay. So, which, you know, for if somebody's a soccer mom or whatever, and they're really busy, the laundry, I know at our house, that's one of the things that's always piles up. So like, what

Curt:

about like, Restaurants and things like that too.

Aaron:

We could, yeah. So we could do, we could do linens for them or something like that. With this laundry mat service that we've kind of teamed up with. We do it for the fire department, so like, we'll pick up their clothing and we'll take it to the laundromat and get it done and do this delivery for them.

Curt:

And like, does the driver just get like a, here's your ticket, it's like a Meals on Wheels, here's the delivery

Aaron:

thing or whatever and Yeah, it comes in their phone. We built a app. Okay. We actually ended up building an app Okay. With a company, uh, that we partnered with outta Florida, and they ended up kind of being able to put us the logistics side of it together. Yeah. So on the customer facing side of it, they enter, they enter their input, tell us where we're gonna, where we're delivering to and from basically, and their input. And then our driver gets that in his phone in the morning and he's ready

Curt:

to go. And now, was it just for business? Or if I borrow my buddy's chainsaw, I could be like, Hey, you can, Hey, my front porch is a, is a red chain saw and we're gonna take it to Jodi Russ house at such and such address.

Aaron:

Eventually that's where we're gonna get, uh, right now we're really business cuz we have to, we have sort of trainee to use the software, right? So there's not like a real friendly customer interface on that yet.

Curt:

Um, so you have to kind of vet your clients first, which is why the ad we just recorded has just an email right now, cuz Right. The, the website is kind of the order interface. If I sent you

Aaron:

to the website, you'd be like, well what is this? This doesn't make any sense to me. So there's, there's some questions there. We have to sign you up for an account in order to get in. Um, but at the end of it, that's kind of how we're building. We're gonna build all of the things based on the troubles that we get out this, you know? Yeah. So then we can figure out the, is the way. Have you you that before? I haven't read that, but that is a good, uh, that's a good line. It's kind

Curt:

of an exploration of stoicism by Ryan Holiday. Huh? I'll have to do that. And that's kind the Marcus stuff and whatnot. Uh, yeah. I have not, uh, which is the more problems you find in fix. In this journey, the more better your business will work.

Aaron:

It's very true. It's very true. So yeah, so we're doing that. Um, we've

Curt:

Oh, auto parts stores, right? Yeah. Like, cuz they got Napa trucks running all over stuff sometimes and they don't

Aaron:

wanna be, right. So if somebody needs something, we can, we can train you and our, and we do a flat fee and we talked about this before, but really, It's a flat fee service. Yeah. So we charge 15 bucks, no matter if you need to deliver it from here to Red Feather, or if you need it down to Denver, it's $15. So it's relatively inexpensive.

Curt:

Um, it's so hard for me to think I could get somebody to take something to Red Feather from here for $15. Like I could drive up there back for $20 and gas money plus my two hours. Right.

Aaron:

And so yeah, it's, it's something that, because we're running around all the time, we've got trucks that are getting more and more full by the day. Yeah. Um, it's where we can keep our services at a low, at a lower price. Um, so yeah, we were having a lot of fun with it actually. Yeah. Um, one of the things we ended up picking up as like we were just talking about is this liquor stuff, which I think is really interesting. We have five brands, so Yeah.

Curt:

And like, talk about that. Like, you don't actually, you don't buy and sell it. No. You don. You deliver it? Deliver it, you do sell it?

Aaron:

Well, kind of. Kind of. So I have, uh, we deliver it. That's what we do. Okay. But we also have a person on our staff that is interfacing with these liquor companies. Okay. So these are all self distributed liquor companies. They're too small. They don't have a distributor. They don't have a distributor. Yep. They're not interested in it. So the rules around it are, if you, if you're a distributor, you basically buy that product from whoever, right. The

Curt:

brewery, the distillery. Right. For like 30% less than they wish you would buy it for. Correct. So you

Aaron:

take that and then you take possession of it, and then you have salespeople that go out and try to make those pedals and pedal it. Yeah. And. What that requires of the, of the maker is that they have to get to a certain volume before a distributor will even talk to them. Right. So when these

Curt:

companies, and how do you do that when you don't have a distributor? Yeah. So

Aaron:

it's this, it's like when you're a kid, it's like a, you don't have a job and how do I get experience? Well, I need experience. I need a job to get the experience. That's that kind of deal that these folks find themselves in. Right? And so we we're kind of in that position where we can actually help them. So if they're small mm-hmm. and they're interested in having some level of service to a bar or a restaurant. Right. Or, or you know, like Birthed Brewing, they do cans and they'll sell to liquor stores, but they've got a very small operation. Right. And they're not really interested in distribution and they can't

Curt:

have a truck. Right. Like a can have a truck running around, deliver. Six. Six packs here. No, 26 packs there. No.

Aaron:

So this just helps these kind of folks do it. So we ended up picking up out of that. We got connected to a guy down in Denver who was selling in Denver already for these five companies. Oh yeah. Five liquor companies. And he said, Hey, I'm doing this in Denver. I'm seeing some success with it. Would you have any interest in doing it up in northern Colorado? Yeah. And I said, well, I know a lot of people. Sure, yeah. Why not? Let's try it. So, um, that's kind of where we got started with it. So I have a

Curt:

gal. So one of your revenue streams is almost like a commission sales. Person. Yep. Entity. Entity for these small craft and small breweries and stuff like that. And then your, your staff person gets half the kitty almost or whatever, for

Aaron:

commission and Yeah, we pair a commission and she runs around and tries to get stuff into restaurants and bars. And so if you're looking for really cool Colorado stuff, it's all local stuff. And there's five different companies we represent that we're just doing sales for. So it's, um, it's been a lot of fun, you know, uh, something different. I, I'm not necessarily convinced I'm gonna be an alcohol salesman for the rest of my life,

Curt:

but, well, I think it's the kind of business that. Has opportunities to go a lot of different places. Yeah. And we were just talking, you know, do we need to niche and specialize or is part part of our beauty that we can deliver just about every damn thing? That's the way we did the commercial was just about every damn thing. Pretty much. Yeah. No. No illegal drugs. No. I can't do that

Aaron:

now. Legal drugs

Curt:

either. Really? No human body parts? No. None of that. Even if it's.

Aaron:

Yeah. But I, uh, take

Curt:

this to my

Aaron:

but we, we are actually having fun with it. I think it's been interesting to see it grow. I think it's been interesting to see it kind of become something that, you know, a year ago didn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. You know, it's one of my favorite things to do is to see something go from nothing. It's just, um, I think I've told this story before, but when I was in college and we did the, you know, my choir teacher said, Hey, who plays the bass? And I raised my hand even though I didn't you know, and that's just kind of my personality. Yeah. And, um, and so business is a lot like this, and then

Curt:

you're not afraid Is, is

Aaron:

you? For sure. For sure. And this is one of those deals that, you know, when I was approached by it, I was kind of like, oh boy, I don't, I don't know if I really want to do this. But now that we've got it, And the problems are there and there's something to solve. This is, this is really fun and I'm seeing it being a real benefit and service to people in, uh, small

Curt:

business particularly. Yeah. Yeah. That don't, couldn't have a delivery vehicle necessarily to move their stuff around, but they can have much more customers if they can.

Aaron:

Yes. So, you know, small breweries. Small distilleries, that's really interesting. But also the guy that's doing the steak thing, right, right. What was he gonna do otherwise? Totally. He doesn't know how to, you know, have somebody come to Windsor and pick up their stuff outta the garage. So I think it, it provides a service that I think is really fun. I think it's really fun to try to compete with Amazon. Could you take me

Curt:

to the Green Ride Dropbox? No. People. How about if I'm in a really big box? Well, I don't think so. Driver has to be able to lift me. I suppose I'd have to lose some weight if he's gonna lift. But

Aaron:

I think it's fun to see that, try to compete with these, I don't know. I mean, Amazon is a behemoth, right? And it just, everybody's loves the convenience. Walmart's trying to get into that space, right? Every, all the big guys are trying to get into that space. And a local business guy as always, when they're up against sort of the corporate world we're in at this moment is just getting kicked in the teeth over and over and over again. And if we can provide something, it doesn't mean that they'll be the cheapest thing. It won't, it won't mean that they can compete even on price with right. Somebody. But we might be able to offer that service that would be able to get them, eliminate the questions around convenience. Yeah. And then allow people to be involved in that so that they could. You know, maybe somebody still pays a premium for it, right? But they got what they wanted from the local guy and that might be kind of fun. Well, and I've told

Curt:

that story before, maybe even with you. I don't think so, but the, where I bought the, the Blackstone Camp Grill at Man Weiler's, or I, I saw it at Man Weiler's for $199 during C. Yeah. And then I looked it up on Amazon to see if it was any good. And it was, but it was 2 99 on Amazon. Right. And meanwhile, Amazon's paying half. Right. What man? Weiler is paying for it. Oh yeah. And just bending the consumer over. Well, it's with their excitement. It's

Aaron:

just been so funny to watch that whole thing. And you know, you see there's lots of stories about where people who are prime subscribers are now. I mean, Amazon, Amazon has really taken it in the chin a little bit over the last, is that right? Quarters? Yeah. Their, their stock is way down. And, and some of that is because some of the tactics that they did, uh, including where somebody was in like, uh, a prime member and they're paying more than they would if they had just. As a shipping cost. Yeah. And some of that, those stories are out there. I don't think, you know, they've, they've struggled in the press in terms of their ability to

Curt:

sort of, it's funny how they just shook off the dick pics thing and nobody blinked an eye. And then other, like, I know. Uh, you just heavy tactics and just kind of being buts. They're big.

Aaron:

They're big. Yeah. I mean, they're a big company and they definitely are moving the needle in a lot of ways in our, in our world. So understand it. I mean, it's again, you know, the unapologetic capitalist, it's like you just get it, you go get it and you know, maybe there's, maybe there's some consciousness there that could be applied at some point, but the market does that too. Yeah. When your stock is down that much, you have to sort of, you have to sort of respond to that and you have to come around and figure out what you're gonna do about that particular instance. Yeah. And so I, you know, I think it's really fun to see us try to get into that space. We'll never be able to compete on price. Yeah. You know, a local business is never gonna be able to compete on price, but what we're able to do with the delivery services, give them something just totally. Gives them, solves a problem for 'em, keeps them focused. I mean, we talked about it a little bit with the real estate deal. It keeps them focused on their business. Dude, uh,

Curt:

Facebook marketplace. Yeah. Right. And stuff like, I know, cause I, I bought something from a young lady, uh, last year, I forget it was a bike. No, it was two years ago or something. Yeah. A bike thing. And, and she was very concerned about like, having me to her home in her garage. Right. To buy this bike thing. Right. Well just, you know, if it's get it delivered. Yeah. Kind of. Kind of, you know, it takes some risk off your shoulders for, you know, low flat fee.

Aaron:

So, yeah, I don't know. I think we're having fun with it. I, you know, we're just trying to, I think there's opportunity there. Me too. I, I think that's part of it. So, yeah. You know, we're, we're always interested in picking up anybody that's looking to be involved in it, you know, so if there's somebody that really is listen, you know, if there's somebody listening and they say, Hey, I could really use it. I think we'd love to have people Yeah. Be our customers. You.

Curt:

So, um, we didn't talk about it yet properly, but I showed you your hallo relational intelligence thing right before, uh, we left the restaurant here earlier, and I wanted to get you a quick blush because how, like, based on just those few words I shared, did that seem descriptive? I, I liked

Aaron:

the, you're as disorganized as hell. which is actually really accurate for sure mean if anybody's seen my truck, they just would know. And my friends that will listen to this, they will laugh because we always just joke about the, where are the documents? Well, they're in my truck So

Curt:

yeah, first blush, well, in all of your ideas and all of your notions of, Hey, here's a way to innovate that, here's a way to, uh, yeah. So anyway, I, uh, no,

Aaron:

I think it's really, it's interesting that that's the assessment because I. Find it probably pretty spot on. Well,

Curt:

I'm white over green as well, so we share the white type, um, which we're pretty rare, honestly. The white as the dominant, um, more people have that as a secondary. Yeah. And uh, and then I'm white over green, so my, my green, my social relational. Right. I'd like to say even in local think tank, it's like local community think tank. Right. Duh. There

it

Aaron:

is. Right. Well, and I, I think mine was a dash of cinnamon. Yeah.

Curt:

You were, you were mostly white. You were white with orange. Orange being the achiever entrepreneur. Yeah. And I, you know, and in some respects, you know, I think in some respects you're probably more entrepreneurial than either your father or, uh, his brother Stan and David Everett. That really created a, quite an operation out of the Everett companies that your grandfather launched. Yeah. He was more an entrepreneur, I suspect.

Aaron:

Yeah. Most people that I dealt with when I was at the Everett Companies, uh, said I was more like my grandpa. Yeah. That. You know, certainly he came from a different era, different culture, different, uh, you know, sort of a different attitude about things. But most of the people that I've met with and dealt with, they would say, you know, you're, you're not like your uncle or your dad. Right. You're much more like your grandpa. Yeah, yeah. Which I always took as a very honoring compliment, uh, for

Curt:

a guide. Fair. There's no criticism of

Aaron:

No, no, no, no. But I just always took it as a nice compliment because I, I admired my granddad, uh, just,

Curt:

well, I was, there was 1,500 people, uh, other people at his funeral. So yeah. A lot of people admired him. He's, uh,

Aaron:

it was a, he was a, such a unique individual and such a, a really beautiful man. I mean, I just, uh, I miss him all the time. I really do. Yeah. There's lots of moments when I would love to just sit down with him and ask him what would he do, you know, in the instance that I'm in. Cause he, he was always so unique. He never, um, one of his philosophies, I suppose, he never said this. But he never wanted to give advice. My dad doesn't either. He doesn't. Both of 'em I think, learned this. Like, if I give you advice, then it's my fault or you have some ability to blame me for it. Right. And my granddad was never, he was just so good about saying, well, did you think about it from this perspective? Or, and you come to

Curt:

your own conclusion Yeah.

Aaron:

Let's you try to come to that decision. And, and I, I admire that a lot. And, and he was such a, up to the very end of his. Um, so he died very suddenly actually. So he was 80, 86. Um, got outta the car, going to the bank to do some deal with somebody and slipped. Oh, wow. And broke his hip. Oh yeah. And then went in for surgery and really at 86, that's a pretty high risk surgery. And that's really what happened at the end. Wow. Um, was just sort of went really

Curt:

quickly, infections around that infection and then this and

Aaron:

that. Yep. And then it just really by, I mean, that happened in the morning. He had his surgery and by that evening he had died. Oh, wow. So it

Curt:

was very, oh, so there wasn't infection and stuff, it was just like went downhill. It, it was

Aaron:

a blood clot really, is probably what I've been doing it, you know. Um, so, but all of that said, it's one of those things where up until the very end, I mean, to the last deal he was doing, he was literally going to go do an

Curt:

al you know, oh, he had such, I mean, he. I don't know, maybe you saw some gaps in his game, but when I would meet him, I'd be like, this guy's got every single one of his marbles still. Oh, yeah. You know, same with, uh, Wayne Schrader. Yeah. I don't know if he's still kicking. He is.

Aaron:

I, I, as far as I know, I haven't talked to those in a

Curt:

bit, pretty similar age. But, but Wayne, you know, he carried all of his, uh, Well into his eighties, you know, just capable of doing everything he wanted

Aaron:

to. They were great friends. Uh, Schraders and my, uh, and my grandparents were great friends. Is that right? Probably their best friends

Curt:

were schraders. I didn't know that. It doesn't surprise me one bit though. Yeah, I was,

Aaron:

uh, and my Perry, who is one of the sons of the Schraders and my dad were ski bums actually in, uh, grand Tar. I see. So they, they were friends and, uh, remain friends I think still to this day. So, yeah. Cool. Um, yeah, anyway, it's great. Anyway, Fort Collins stuff. My granddad was a, a really good man. Um, so yeah, I probably do. To get all the way back to the right circle back around. Um, I probably am much more like my, my granddad and probably have that streak of entrepreneurialism than I just, uh, I just kind of feelable about it. I always want a new problem to solve. Yeah. I it, yeah. To be probably upfront and maybe too upfront. That's one of the things that I've wrestled with a lot. Its blessing and a curse. Yeah. It's one of the things I've wrestled with this last six months in my life is kind of like, Hey, you know, I'm 47 years old. How inconsistent can I possibly be with everything that I've done? And, um, and it has that, you know, that's a, that's a side of it that has a little element of truth to it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's one of those things that you go, well, somebody says that to you. There's a little element of truth. And so,

Curt:

or you know, somebody I respect a lot, or many people I respect a lot or what they call polymaths. Yeah. They do lots of different things and they do them very well,

Aaron:

and I'm in that world, right. I just, I love trying new things. I love trying to figure new things out. I just enjoy the heck out of everything. So, I mean, when, when it, especially when it comes to business, I think even the harder stuff in business is just, is just fun, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I like it more than, I like it more than almost anything, you know? I love music, I love writing, I love, but just that when I have something in front of me that's like, boy, this is a real challenge. Yeah. Um, there's something about that that just gives me a lot of life. You

Curt:

know, I've been listening to, uh, Lex Friedman interview some, uh, chess players recently and just talking on the game of chess and he's done some poker players and stuff. Yeah. You know, chess is, it's apparently, it's a very complex, deep game. I know how the things move and stuff like that, but probably most 12 year olds could beat me if they actually play right. My kids are amazing, and how complicated can it be? It's freaking 20 pieces or something, a square board, you know, take that against a business and industry and evolution of tastes and marketplaces over time and stuff, and get outta here with that week. Shit, I, no, no offense, Magnus Carlson, or whatever your name is. I'll take you out a business contest anytime. I think

Aaron:

business is just, you know, every day you wake up, there's something new, right? Yeah. There's something different, something unique, something that you weren't anticipating otherwise, that you just thought, well, what, what in the world? I mean, how did we, I mean, how do you, yeah, you're the. Yeah. And I like that. I mean, I really do. I like, I like getting up and I can't fix everything, you know? I've learned that in my life too, but um, I do like it. Yeah, I definitely like that challenge. You know what

Curt:

I like is this rum. It's it's really, it's like a banana nose. I know. I love it. I know. It's interesting. Really

Aaron:

delicious. What's the name of that? This is, uh, Baer Peak. Baer Peak, yeah. Baer Peak Rum Spice. This is their spice drum, which I think is really, and again, I'm not a huge Rum fan, but uh, I do think it's pretty good.

Curt:

Well, not, it's not so spicy as some and some, however they create that banana nose. I don't know what that's, I got one more of that. Well, we got a whole bottle. There's a whole bottle. I got a reality for Children party and not too long here, so. Well, and I have school stuff with my kids tonight, so I better be, for those of you that think I drink way too much on this podcast. Mostly you're right. But today I'm taking it easy. I'm just pouring little tiny Porsche. Oh, that's good. That's good. Um, should we do real estate update now? Yeah, sure. Good. No change in the markets the last six months, right? Oh, no. It's very steady. Interest rates are low and stable. Oh, uh, inventories. Yeah. Such

Aaron:

a, it's such a, such a wild thing to actually watch. I mean, I've watched this movie a lot of times in my life. I've been in real estate my whole life. I remember sweeping out houses when I was 11 years old. So I've just been around this for a long time and I've watched this movie before. Um, not ne but you know, the movie's different. It's a little different every time. This is, yeah. This is Cardboard Man 36 or whatever this is, you know? But somehow scarier. But scarier. Yes. Uh, this one's an interesting thing. The interest rates are, um, as they should, they should be higher than they have been. So, There is a number that interest rates. I, I always think, you know, 5% and you can probably speak to this as a banking background. I always think 5% is like, that's a really healthy market. Yeah, I agree. I think it, it keeps people out of the market that shouldn't be in it. Yep. You know, or can't be in it cuz they don't make enough money. Yep. That keeps that reasonable. And, and it also gives people opportunity to still make money if there are investments that are out there. Mm-hmm. So I always feel like 5% is kind of a healthy market. Yeah. Anytime we get on either side of that, weird things happen. Right. So we just watched weird things happen for the last two years where everything was in the twos and threes. Right. You know, this, a bank loves to put 3% on any, on anything that's prime. Sure. So if we were at two and a half percent, that means that Prime is a negative interest rate in general. Right. Right. I mean, it's just, and that's just silly. How can you possibly, it doesn't make any sense. Um, I mean, I, I have my own issues with the Federal Reserve anyway and all of those kinds. I was

Curt:

listening to somebody, this is a quick detour, but Yeah. They said basically, one reason I don't believe that war with Ukraine can happen is the interest rates are too high. Nobody can afford to finance a war.

Aaron:

Well, that could be a, that could be a very viable assessment. I mean, I guess

Curt:

Yay. Yeah. Let's not do war if we please would be. Um, and, but that was his main logic. He's like, if we were going to war, there would be somehow be lower interest rates. Cause we just kept pencil it out. Otherwise,

Aaron:

I just think, uh, you know, the, the interesting thing about interest rates, and we'll get to real estate here in a second, but I think the interesting thing about interest rates is that they're just one bullet in the ammunition that people have to stop inflation. Right. It's, it's a strong bullet for sure. But you could stop spending money as a government And also that would start, that would start to solve the problem. Oh yeah, yeah. You know, the

Curt:

more you, I mean that's what caused it more than the interest rates, you know, the spending of the money, mostly the printing of the money and the spending of the.

Aaron:

If, if the government spent whatever it was, however many trillions of dollars in the last couple of three years, which I think if st like from what I've heard about seven, I think,

Curt:

I don't know what the number is. Our government, 20, 20 trillion around the world,

Aaron:

the, the number 7 trillion some, some something. Somebody told me that in the last two years there were more, there was more money spent than in the entire history of the United States. So you'd added all that up and put it together In the last two years, they spent more than that. Wow. This is a big number. Maybe that's, somebody can fact check me if that's what I, but uh,

Curt:

I'll apologize to the fact check police

Aaron:

but I think that's a big number. Regardless of whether that's an accurate statement or not, the cinnamon is probably accurate. That there's some big deal. And, and you know this too, that from, as we get into fractional reserve lending, when you start to say that somebody puts a deposit in, if they put a hundred bucks in the bank, the bank can lend $90 of that out. Right? Right. And so within a short number of times, yeah. But it's black and radically. It's radically, and most of the money is actually created at the bank level. It's not even created at the, it's not even created.

Curt:

It's not the government creating money so much as it is just when people get a loan, it creates new money. It does,

Aaron:

because both people now have the money that didn't, you know, on a hundred bucks. It's just really, it's really interesting to watch. And so I think that's part of what's happened is that that influx of money, as people borrowed money, as they did more things, as they bought boats, as they bought. The natural, you know, that amount of money pouring into the system. Right. The only thing that can act as a sponge to that is the price of things. Yeah. So it just ends up absorbing this huge supply of money.

Curt:

And we saw that in real estate. Oh man. We did, we saw that in, uh, gas prices. You know, a lot of places, cars, eggs, used cars, whatever. Right, right. Something's off. I can get it,

Aaron:

I'll buy it. Something's off. When used cars cost more than

Curt:

new. Right. Or when Over the span of a, of a one year span, a particularly used car will increase in value by two or $4,000 as it sits there being driven every week. Yeah. That says doesn't,

Aaron:

that doesn't That's never been a maximum in my life. You know, buy a new car cuz it's cheaper. Right. Right. That's never been anything I've heard. So I think as that relates to real estate in our market, we've seen the fastest, uh, increase in interest rates in the history of our country. So we went from, in March of last year, we about three and a half percent for a mortgage rate. Yeah. Um, fed rate came down a little bit this last week, but we'd been seeing things creeping in on 8%. Wow. So as a 30 year mortgage. Wow. So that's a big number, a big difference. Yeah. Uh, and if you'd think about it, somebody that bought a $500,000 house, their payment was probably 2,500 bucks. I'm not, I'm excluding taxes in metro districts, but their, their payment was probably 2,500 bucks back in, let's say March. Yep. If they were buy the same house, same price, that payment today, if they just all apples to apples is, is probably closer to 35 or 4,000 bucks. It's

Curt:

a big number difference. Yeah.

Aaron:

It's a big number and it disqualifies people from, from buying. Right.

Curt:

If you don't have, well, so now you buy a $350,000 place, right? Instead of a place 500,000, but you already have a 450,000 place.

Aaron:

Right. And 350,000 doesn't exist in our market anyway. Still doesn't,

Curt:

uh, our prices coming down then.

Aaron:

Here's the weird thing. I mean, I think people, there are price adjustments certainly happening, but most of that is because, well, people were

Curt:

asking for

Aaron:

all the money they were, and their neighbor was like, dude, man, I sold my house. It was like two years, you know, six months ago for this much money. And so they're like, well, I'm ready to put my house on the market now. I want the same thing my neighbor got. That's not gonna happen. Yeah. So are they gonna fall off precipitously off the cliff? No, I don't think so. And statistically that doesn't happen in the real estate market. So, um, over the course, even in oh eight, you basically didn't see pricing drop so dramatically that it couldn't recover. So by the time when oh eight started, and by 2013 we had recovered our pricing. Really? Yeah. Okay. So what, what was priced almost too high in oh eight, right? Right. Went

Curt:

through a dip. Certainly, yeah. There was a crisis point there where it was worth 50 or 60% sometimes of what it had been, or 70. Yeah. Um, here, not the finished products, mostly like freshly built houses or different things like that. Yeah. And here,

Aaron:

locally, we, we don't. I mean, we really don't see it appreciating market very often. Right. So I think, you know,

Curt:

technically if we go down 10% over the span of a couple years, we'll be lucky and then we'll start going back up again.

Aaron:

Yeah. And technically around here, unless you were caught in the wrong moment at the wrong time and had to sell, um, we just didn't see a lot of people, it just stays, kind of just appreciates

Curt:

slower, slower Right. That, that's our housing recession around

Aaron:

here is sort of flat around here. Yeah. I think tech, I mean, I, this is probably a technicality, but I think, uh, the last depreciating market in Fort Collins was 1963. Oh,

Curt:

wow. Truly depreciated. Okay, so sorry to cut you off, but, so tell me about like, is inventory finally. Up now is, it's like there was no sellers and that was part of the problem, right? Everybody was waiting until the prices got even higher or whatever.

Aaron:

Well, here's the other interesting thing that's happened. If you have a two and a half percent mortgage, are you selling your house? Why would you? You won't. Yeah. So actually inventory isn't necessarily this wildly better thing. Hmm. What is hitting the. Is not, is the have to what I call the have twos, right? I have to sell my job, transferred me. Mm. Uh, my kids need to be in a different school, or I have to get outta get divorce, get a divorce.

Curt:

There's a

Aaron:

lot of that going on. And there is that, you know, that that aspect always exists in real estate market. So there's always the have twos in the deal. Um, and I think that's, we're seeing that, but what that means is that you don't necess, there's not necessarily more inventory. Yeah. And the inventory that does hit isn't necessarily all that attractive. Right.

Curt:

Oh. Cause they haven't printed it and made it pretty and gotten it ready for, or, you know, it's

Aaron:

like necessarily, hey, if I have a two and a half percent or 3% mortgage, I'm just not gonna put mine out there. Right. Like I'm fine.

Curt:

Right. Until this settles out. Well, and frankly, I would rent it out. Right. Especially if you've had it for a while. You've got a buttload of, uh, if you have equity in it,

Aaron:

equity in it, you move it and try to do something else. Right. Right. So I think, I think that's a really interesting aspect of this is that I don't think inventory and statistically speaking inventory isn't much better where at about two to three months supply right now, healthy market six. Yeah. So we're still undersupplied you're not seeing competitive offers in terms of right now we have 30 people looking at this house and we're about 30 offers to, right. Right. You're not seeing that. Um, interestingly, I was dealing on a deal today, um, million plus. So the, that was a cash offer that we lost out to at a, at a million plus. Okay. So I think in the upper end of the market, you're actually not seeing any retraction yet because I still think there's cash in the market. Where we're seeing a retraction is anything under seven 50. Okay. In our market. So we're, where we are, we are seeing some price. Pressures on that under seven 50. Right. Because those are the people that are still getting a mortgage. Right. If you're gonna go buy a million, six house Yeah. I, you know, who's borrowing to go? Some I doctors, but a lot of people are, but hopefully not too many. Yeah. Most people are buying that cash or they're doing it outta their stocks or whatever. Right, right. It's very, I'm waiting for statistics on the upper end of the market. I don't have those yet in hand today. Yeah. But I'm waiting on those statistics over the last quarter to see actually what's happened. But I, I have a sneaking suspicion the, that the hit in this is always The mid,

Curt:

it's the middle class. Yeah. The middle class always gets screwed. They just

Aaron:

really do get in these kind of moments. And, and so I think

Curt:

that's what's actually happening. Well, in the, the, the lower class has been screwed too, because now they're just disqualified from becoming homeowners for a lot time. They can, yeah. They can't do it. So, so if I'm, if I'm a, if I'm middle class homeowner, you know, I don't have to get a new house or maybe, maybe a first time home buyer and I haven't bought a house yet and I'm freaking out cuz I was qualified for a three and a half percent mortgage. Now I'm qualified for a seven. Right? Like should I just sit and wait?

Aaron:

Well, the other piece of it is that the market, every market has an opportunity, right? Yeah. And in this case, what is crazy is about the market that we were dealing with six months ago. People were paying, no one was paying the price. No.

Curt:

So if it was 10 or 20, 30, 50,000, over a hundred hundred thousand over. Yeah. Right? So

Aaron:

if that's the case, I saw a really neat little kind of demo or like diagram of what was going on. Somebody had a house. Yeah, A house listed at four 50. They ended up paying 500, but their interest rate was 4%. Their payment is the same as somebody who's at four 50 who can now get some seller concessions right out of it and buy an interest rate down. And their payment's the same. Right. Or a little bit more. So relatively speaking. The price is sort of, it's not like you're out of the market. Yeah. You, you have to demonstrate the income to be able to do that. But that doesn't mean that, it just means that you're probably buying something more at real pricing. Right. At a real market price. I don't think that's always true. I mean, memes are nice, but they don't always tell the full story Right. Um, but I do think that that's the, that's the opportunity in this market, right? Is that there are people that need to

Curt:

sell well, and maybe in two years the rates will be back down again low. I think

Aaron:

so. I

Curt:

mean to than, than two. I don't know who, who knows? It's hard to, depending on how hard they break it, when they break the inflation Yeah,

Aaron:

I do. I don't know that they're gonna go back to three and a half in our lifetime. That seems kind of crazy. But I do think if we could get back to five. And I think that's more on the horizon in the next couple of years. I hope so, than three. I don't know that three's ever back in our world.

Curt:

No. I actually hope you'll see all the bullshit that happens when zero interest policy is the policy. It ain't good. It isn't

Aaron:

very good. Yeah. So yeah, regionally speaking though, the real estate market remains relatively healthy. It's certainly slower

Curt:

than our house is being built. Last time we talked there was like water moratorium can't build no more until we find some more water kind of stuff going on. What's the update there?

Aaron:

So that particular district released, um, it's moratorium on those plats and developments that we're already committed to. So town of Severance, some other places, those areas were able to, um, get their taps release. If the PLA was already

Curt:

in existence. Gotcha. So if the developer already moved that far ahead, you

Aaron:

gotta be able, if you had a final PLA and you were at the point of dedicating water, or you were, um, you know, you were gonna be at that place of, um, you, you were sort of done with the process right then at that point you could. Now you

Curt:

get, so they found that much water, but they found that much new developments. Nobody's start new stuff though,

Aaron:

still at the place. When the last time I talked to the engineer at Northwell, uh, which is the district that this is a part of, he said, don't call us back for two years.

Curt:

So I just watched, uh, a presentation at my rotary club actually, of the. Glad Reservoir Project. Yeah. And all that. Will that help to cure this? Assuming I could get it done right?

Aaron:

I don't, I would still be, if I was a betting man, I'd still say I didn't get it get done. Really?

Curt:

Yeah.

Aaron:

That's my take. I mean, I, right. I mean, I, it

Curt:

might be wrong. So necessary and important and like, yeah, like the reason that we have the wild and scenic puter and stuff like that is a compromise. So that we could like do that. It can't be wels. Oh wait, this is, that was then, this is now,

Aaron:

this is driven. I mean, a lot of this is driven our politics. We're, we're way past the point of this is speaking all over the

Curt:

place. No longer real estate update. This is the opinion editorial page here. Well, I,

Aaron:

I think it actually has still a lot to do with our real estate, um, world that we're in, i I our politics locally. Um, is a reflection of what's happening nationally. You we're not talking about people who wanna sit at the table. We talked about my granddad earlier. That was a, that was a time in which people sat down, you know, Lema Avenue. There was a big article about it the other day, uh, in the paper about Lama and how that's named after my Great-Granddad and me Tylee, which it spelled wrong anyway, which should have been m ae, but it was whatever they messed up, whatever classic. That was a conversation between us as a development company, the landowner who were the Ty's and the city. The, the city. That road was called Hospital Road. The city planner said, we gotta come up with something else here. Right. And when we were doing Indian Hills and the stuff that's right for hospital acres and stuff that's around there. Yeah. University, uh, acres, all of that was. It was kind of a conversation collectively between the city and, you know, they recognized that we had property right, and we wanted to do something with it, and they recognized that they were gonna get a pretty good sizable benefit out of that. Right. So there was a, there was a kind of a collaborative. Spirit, even if they ended up having technical adversarial issues. Sure. That's okay. Right. I don't, that's the spirit of business in a lot of that's spirit of business and it really is a spirit of like, okay, well if it is their job to look out for the best interest of the community, awesome. Yeah, we'll make this work. It's something, let's, let's make it work. I don't know that we're there anymore. I don't think that, um, and this is not just Fort Collins, but I just think overall across the across the United States and the last election showed it, we're really not interested in a compromise. We're not interested in a conversation around how do we get better? We have our teams and we have our camps and we're gonna vote that way. We're gonna pull the ticket in that direction. And, and ultimately I think that's, uh, the independent voice. Yeah. Which I tend to be more of that. I think the independent voice gets lost. Yeah, for sure. And just doesn't really have a, have anything to say in it. And I think it has lots of complications around what we're doing. I think water is. You know, we've talked about this so many times, but I think water is just such a, it's such a blazing target point in our, in our current environment.

Curt:

So if you can shut the water down, you can shut development down. And that's what they're trying to do. I think so. But like, people are gonna have babies and move here anyway. Like, it's just gonna reduce everybody else's quality of living and increase their costs of living. Right. I think that's

Aaron:

the fallacy of it. Right. Which is that one of the things is they

Curt:

actually won't want to

Aaron:

Yeah. The, the, the thing that's made Fort Collins, I think a really unique place over the years is the amount of kind of people that come here. Yeah. You know,

Curt:

potted,

Aaron:

there's a, you know, we're not necessarily ethnically diverse, but I think you get a real wide spectrum of people that

Curt:

move here. Yeah. Culturally diverse. Yeah. You know, not ethnically we're white bred. Yeah. You know, except for some football players and stuff like that. But I think that that aspect, but culturally we are, we got a lot of Midwesterners, we got a lot of Californians, a lot of Southerners, Texans, Minnesotans, you know, And

Aaron:

I think, um, that's been a, a real, uh, asset to our community is that, that you get a lot of ideas when that happens. Right. The university's been a huge part of that. Csu, my granddad would've said, CSU is the whole reason anything exists around Yeah. Because it just really is this engine of creativity. It's an engine of knowledge. It's an engine of just magnet

Curt:

for interesting

Aaron:

people. Yeah. You, you just get a really wide spectrum of people coming to be a part of that. The unique thing in this instance is that I think as you, as you shut down the ability for somebody who's a student here at CSU to come here and live here when they're done with school. Right. What you're shutting down is the future growth potential of the innovation of this town. Well, the creativity that this town has spurred for all

Curt:

these years. Yes. And like 30 years ago when you had a professor. At the college that was a member of your neighborhood. Mm-hmm. like they were a member of your neighborhood and they came to the barbecues and stuff and they were eclectic because they knew all about Oh yeah. The writers of writings of Isaac ov or this or that. But they were a part of the community. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like even professors and stuff, they like click in neighborhoods and stuff more where the other professors live and there's like this white tower or wall between the professor class and the, the regular people.

Aaron:

Wells, broader topic. But I, I think we definitely witnessed the rise of the expert class in our lifetime. Right,

Curt:

right.

Aaron:

Yeah. The technocrat that really understand, you know, they, they may have a really good education. They may, whatever they become the people that everybody sort of leans to and looks up to. Mm-hmm. um, which I don't know, was always the spirit of, of our community. You still have

Curt:

that Anthony Fauci bubble head in your car by the way. No comment. Okay. Sorry. Just I do not, I don't know if that would be flattering or insulting Anyway, I digress. But when I think about the expert class, like I am science, he might be

Aaron:

the embodiment of it. It is

Curt:

some, on some level. I speak for science, I speak for science, all those songs. Um, um, so anyway, yes. The expert class, right?

Aaron:

Yeah. And I think, um, community wise, I think we really are. Position where we, we need to be careful about that stuff. Cause I think we, we don't there were a lot of initiatives on the ballot this year, which I think is funny. I don't vote for initiatives anyway, but there's a lot of initiatives on the ballot this year. One of, uh, about affordable housing, I saw one in Glenwood Springs. One, we have his house up there and some of the things, right, we saw these things about affordable housing and how to solve it. Oh yeah. And it's always the extraction of someone else's profitability in order to make sure that somebody else can benefit

Curt:

from it. Right. Well, and it always cuts its own throat because it's like, well now nobody wants to build projects that are affordable housing. Well,

Aaron:

because now there's de restrictions supply. Right. All that. Nobody wants to buy it. I mean, there's a lot of, right. So you

Curt:

reduce supply by trying to fix the problem.

Aaron:

Yeah. And I, and I think, you know, in this instance, growth is the reason that there's affordable. It just is the reality. If there's enough, if there's people that wanna live here, growth becomes the relief valve for all that stuff. And if it isn't there, then the only thing that can happen is that the price goes up Right. And and that's what we've seen, right? This town has seen its pricing increase. I was just doing a deal last night where we were talking about, um, 4 31 West Mountain, which is my great grandmother's house. She bought 1925 after my granddad died of an ulcer. There's a,

Curt:

a unified capital or there's a investment firm that's really close to there. Right. Right down the, I financed that back when I was at Bank of Colorado back in the

Aaron:

day. So right down the street from that. Yeah. It's, it's, it's actually towards, uh, Sherwood. It's on the corner of Sherwood in Mountain. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. She bought that in 1925 after my great-granddad died of an ulcer with life insurance policy. She bought it for $5,000. Okay. Um, and was able to get a down payment out of the life insurance policy. I don't think she could even buy the whole thing. Right. Um, and she lived there until 1992, I think, when she went to the rest home. Okay. She sold in 1992 for $189,000. Okay. Which, if I had the chance to buy now, Right. That was a pretty good deal. Um, that sold in, I think somebody sold that in 2020 or 2019. I can't remember which year my thing's 2020. They sold it, um, for $980,000 that this, she was a working class lady. She was a cleaning lady. Right, right. She had two single mom, two kids, uh, working class immigrant who lived on Mountain and Sherwood. Right. Grant, and I understand that's how the town was at the time. Right, right. And that's where you. It wasn't like she was, she didn't live in the barrio or something like that. I mean, she lived in town and she was a, she was, and she had yes, an extenuating circumstance that allowed her to get a down payment for that house and those kinds of things. But she still was able to afford something that was a part of our community.

Curt:

Well, and that's one of the things I love about my neighborhood is there's a few families that have been there for 30 years and stuff. Mm-hmm. my neighbor, Matt and Joe here are one of, one of those, yeah. Um, where, you know, she works at a dermatology clinic. He does landscaping and stuff. I don't think they've ever, yeah, they've never ever earned more than a hundred thousand dollars between the two of them. Yeah. I'm guessing more like 60 or something. and they have this amazing little house right at LePort and Whitcomb, you know, it's probably worth a half million dollars. Easy. They paid it off, I think, a long time ago. Yeah.

Aaron:

Well, and the next people that move into that house after they

Curt:

just Yeah, they'll be, they'll be $150,000 income earners and bankers or something. At least tech workers. Right? Yeah. At least,

Aaron:

I mean, I, they, the next person that moves in there will not have the working class Yeah. Capabilities that the person that lives there now does.

Curt:

Yeah. That's just, Matt's done a bunch of my FES work and this and that. Yeah. He ain't gonna happen. The next person could fix my computer.

Aaron:

Or

Curt:

more. Or more, right? Yeah. Write me a app. Yes. So anything else in the real estate update side while we're wandering around in the fringes of appropriate content? No,

Aaron:

I think, I just always wanna remind people that like, as you go through different things, every market has an opportunity. And in this case there are opportunities that still exist. Not so much necessarily in investments and those kinds of things, but there are opportunities in every market. And this one is unique because we've seen such a dramatic rise in stuff. There's a lot of pause mm-hmm. that's happening. And when that happens then um, you know, fear tends

Curt:

to Yeah. Well in some of those create opportunity, some of those have to sells. Yeah. Like freak out 40 days in and. I gotta go, I will take a hundred grand less. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron:

Or whatever. Yeah. There, I think those opportunities exist. So I, that's what I would say about the real estate world. I think that's what's going on. And, um, I still think it's a great place to live. And I still think over the course of time, there's not a better investment.

Curt:

What would be if you were, whether you're from Minnesota or Texas or whatever. Yeah. And you're coming in here, you, you got a job, you're bringing your job with you. Yeah. It's a nice six figure job. Your girlfriend has a six figure job too. Yep. Maybe in a few years you get married and have some kids and stuff, but right now we're just gonna buy some. Yeah. Colorado's finest. Yeah. Uh, where would you tell them to go in, in Northern Colorado? What would be your. Like bang for the buck lifestyle kind of places. I think La Porte

Aaron:

has the most opportunity. The town, port town La Porte has the most

Curt:

opportunity. It's a little depressed still. Yep. Comparatively, some crazy people live up

Aaron:

there, but not that many. Yeah. And infrastructure wise, it's still, there's still some struggle there. Flood plain issues and things like that. Yeah.

Curt:

Sewer system kind needs to happen, needs

Aaron:

some stuff, but, but overall, I think that as close to be as close to town as you

Curt:

wanna be. Right. It's just, and as close to the foothills as you wanna be. Yeah. It's, it's

Aaron:

undervalued, I think. Okay. Uh, that's, that's a place I'd look at. I'd also, I, I still think, uh, anything along the 85 corridor mm-hmm. So, um,

Curt:

Eaton seems like a cute little town growing fast. I think Eaton's great.

Aaron:

I think, uh, alt Pierce, those kinds of places. It may not be, it may not be immediate, but I still think those areas are, um, they're really good. Yeah. And I think they give you the best value, really. Yeah. Uh, comparatively, I, I mean of course if you have all the money in the world and you wanna live in downtown Fort Collins, old Town West is great. That number's always great. Traditionally 10% appreciation every year over year, over year, over year, over year. It's a great place to live. But that's expensive. So if

Curt:

you don't have that right, and if you've got three kids or four kids, then you definitely, you need a bigger house somewhere. Yeah.

Aaron:

I think the small communities out in Will County, uh, are awesome. I think they have a lot to offer. I still think they feel a lot more like, and maybe this is just my own bias. They feel a lot more like what this place felt like when I was Yeah. 10,

Curt:

12 years old. Do you have favorites between those? Eat Eaton's your favorite Eaton's. Yeah, they've got a hell of a football team.

Aaron:

Well, they're great town. I mean, they've just built a brand new rec center. They actually have, um, you know, they actually have some infrastructure, some decent employers over

Curt:

there even.

Aaron:

Really? Yeah. I think they're in the act space couple. There's, but you know, they've got a new brewery that started and they've got a great little coffee shop and they, I think Eaton's a really cute town. I think it's sort of the next Windsor, frankly, based on our demographic and where we are and what's happening. Um, geographic and demographic. Yeah. Windsor, uh, Windsor was, uh, let's say 30 years ago, Windsor started to sort of become a place

Curt:

in, I was there about five years after that. Yeah.

Aaron:

And most people were like, Windsor, why would I go get a Windsor? Right.

Curt:

Didn't even cross that. And now

Aaron:

it's amazing. And now it's the place that a lot of people wanna be, and it's actually the most expensive community near our, in our region. Right.

Curt:

Well, and Eaton offers a lot of the same things, which is, yeah, my wife works in Greeley and I work in Fort Collins, or vice versa, or whatever. And so we can live in Eaton and not have to live in either of those. Cities, it's a compromise. They can be part of a small school system. Yep.

Aaron:

And they still have influence in their community. They can walk down to the town board meeting if they want and have a conversation about what's going on. And I, right. I just think there's value in all of that. So I think the smaller those kinds of places are the better. And I, and I think that's, uh, I like eating the most. I think of all the things that are out there, that's probably the best. I think that's the best bang for the buck in the, in the marketplace.

Curt:

One of the, uh, podcasts that you turned me on to last year was, uh, the Brian McClanahan McClanahan show. The Think Local Act Local, yeah. I was pretty rad about it for a while. I've kind of, he kind of bothers me. I sometimes he's like prs on and on and whatever, but, but he would really favor that kind of localize your existence the best you can and, and, you know, be able to impact your community. And therefore maybe live in a place where you

Aaron:

can, and I think those kinds of places offer that more than others. Yeah. Right. I think in the Eaton Pear and none, whatever they are, I mean, nones not much of anything. Watches grow weeds, Um, but I think those kinds of places do give you the chance at least to still have some influence and do representative government. Yeah. Um, and I think that's really, I think that's really strong. Yeah, fair enough. That's, those are my, those are my choices. I think LaPorte has it too. They're governed by the county weirdly, but, um, I do, they don't have a local city council or anything, but I do think La Porte also has just some cool stuff around it. It's got a, it's got an edge that I like, appreciated,

Curt:

so I would kind of like to live up there. But I got this little place in Old Town Fort College, so what am I gonna do, you know, first world problems? Um, so I was just reflecting on, and I forgot the handle. I lost the handle. Oh. The election stuff. Ah, yes. Yeah. Cuz we were talking about kind of representative government. I started thinking about the House of Representatives. Yeah. You know, the, the red wave that became a red drip. A weak stream. A red drip. A red drip. Yeah. Uh, any reflections and what, what happened, especially in the house and you know, when I read my mainstream media, it's obvious that all the Trump candidates lost and he's washed up and da da da. Is that, is that for real this time? Like, I don't usually, I can't believe it when I read, read something in the mainstream media, but it kind of seems right. Maybe.

Aaron:

Yeah. I think, I mean, he's not going the way right. Maybe as much as some of us would think that that's the right thing to do at the moment. Right. Um, he's not gonna go away. He's just gonna be him until the end of him Um, what, what I do think is interesting is that I don't think. Anybody's giving anybody a reason to vote for them. And I think that's what happened in this, you know, the, the Republicans are just fantastic at always saying why they hate everybody else. And the Democrats typically do a good job of saying, this is what we wanna do. Right. That agenda that they say they want to do may not be in agreement with very many people, or the majority of people even, I don't think. Right. But they

Curt:

at least, at least they wanna do something. They wanna give you

Aaron:

something to vote for. Right. And Republicans are just so, I mean, they just, they. So much hubris in the deal. Yeah. Looked at it and said, well, of course, you know, inflation's this. You got a guy that shakes hands with the air, he's lost his marbles. There's no way we could lose this thing, you know? And they gave him nothing. They gave us, they gave people no reason to vote for them. Right. You know, I still think if they would've stood up and said, all right, we think these four things. Right. And not some bogus 85th version of the contract with America. Right, right. I mean, it's just, it's nonsense. Right. It was a nonsense deal. But if they'd have just stood up and distilled it down and said, look, uh, we think inflation's terrible and we need to stop spending money. Period. You know? Yeah. Period. I think we need to have a, a, a political, international political conversation around Russia and Ukraine that doesn't include the threat of war at every time we ever Right. Look, you know, look up. I think if they would've said, uh, Hey, we're gonna let the, you make the decisions for your health and your family in the future

Curt:

related to school. Totally. And

Aaron:

mandates. Mandates and all the rest. They've said that, and I think if they would've, I think they just would put three or four of those things out there. Yeah. Yeah. Said If you do that, then, then we will promise that that's what we're gonna fulfill. Yep. I think it would've had a better shot. I don't know that they would even still have gotten elected because they have such a shitty track record about what they are as a party.

Curt:

Um, you're kind of back, uh, into the, I hate the Republicans as much as I hate the Democrats camp. Huh? I dust, uh,

Aaron:

they just, uh, yeah, they, they bother me. I mean, they, they don't, they're

Curt:

pathetic and the Democrats are stupid.

Aaron:

Yeah. I mean, I think whatever, whoever the, the Harlem Globe Trotters used to play

Curt:

Washington Generals General, that's

Aaron:

the Republican, that's Republican party. That's like what they want to be. They love that. They just love to be the stupid affable loser And, um, that's frustrating. You know, as cuz we really, we joked about it in lunch, like, who needs a king if you have a permanent bureaucracy? Right. I mean, if the Republicans have said that, Hey, we're gonna dismantle much of this bureaucracy. Right. And give you back the autonomy at the state level to deal with.

Curt:

Well, same thing here in Colorado, you know? Yeah. Uh, Heidi Gnal gets on the stage and confronts. Pull us with a, Hey, you grew the government 23% in four years. Like, are you gonna do the same in the next four? Yeah. And nobody bets and

Aaron:

I, no. So I, I don't know. I'm, I'm actually relatively pleased because I don't think, you know, it'll stop whatever. It's sort of, it

Curt:

doesn't, the house actually flipping and them from saying much of everything. Right. But

Aaron:

again, even that, I don't know. I mean, just leave me alone please. It. I still think at the end of the day, my, I think we, again, we said it in lunch, my favorite line from the Declaration of Independence is the 10th grievance, which is, you know, he has sent swarms of his bureaucracy or his minions based, whatever it is Yeah. To come out and eat out our substance. Right. And that was one of the reasons we revolted against England. And frankly, we're there again, in some level, like everything, you can't, you can't move right or left without having somebody tell you how to, how to participate

Curt:

in your world. I forget what the number is, but it used to be like, 106 private employees for every government employee. And now it's like three or four or something. Yeah. Um, this is a terrible joke to share, but I'm fond of doing that. Uh, the favorite bumper sticker that I've seen a meme since the election, uh, was, uh, Biden Federman 2024. It's a no-brainer.

Aaron:

Well, that's so, so it's just so interesting, right? I mean, there's a great example like, why in the world would you put up that guy? Cuz he's been on TV again, nobody to vote for, nobody to give you any reason to vote for them other than I don't like the Democrat Right? And so then all the, you have a guy that actually like, God bless, a guy suffered from a stroke, had a huge issue, can't string a sentence together, says good, can't fumbles all the way through his debate. Looks silly, frankly. Yeah. Um, and he still wins because guess what? We didn't, the Republican

Curt:

side of things didn't actually go. A compelling message gave

Aaron:

nothing. That's interesting to look at. Yeah. Nothing interesting to vote for. So I do think that's interesting. I think the other piece of it, so what do you think this

Curt:

goes like is, are we just gonna have the Republican party be the Washington General, general Washington Generals for the rest of our existence? I think so. No other parties, no constitution, no libertarians, no unity party, nothing like that's gonna happen.

Aaron:

I don't know. I think people have to get fed up enough with it. Right? Yeah. I think that it has to be so invasive in their life that they finally say like, I don't, I'm not represented by any of this.

Curt:

Like, do you think it'll be too late? Potentially Like, we'll have slipped too far into social kind of oversight, da da, da. Or do we have a strong enough history of kind of liberty first, enter free enterprise, all that. I don't, the American small business is not like, they're not, I

Aaron:

actually don't think that, I actually don't think Americans as much as we want, say they buck are. I don't think Americans actually, I think Americans aren't nearly as liberty mind as everybody thinks they are. Right. They're not oriented.

Curt:

Africans are more liberty minded than Americans.

Aaron:

And today. Yeah. Well just because if you have to be self-sufficient at

Curt:

some point you just, you are, or a bunch of paper patsies. We, we debate that

Aaron:

comparably, we eat around the edges of so many debates that don't have anything to do with anything, you know? Fair. I mean really are you're talking about This speaks no ill of anyone, but if somebody's actually having conversations about the priority of their sexualization, that means that they have time on their hands. Uh, and I, that's maybe a bold thing to say, but I do think that that's kind of real. Like I, it, it doesn't, it isn't something that I see a lot of in, in history. Right. You don't see large swaths of people in that sort of, this conversations around that, that hasn't been a part of our past. Now, does that mean that that doesn't exist or, no, I'm not saying any of that. I'm not saying that it's, I'm not moving into any kind of moralism around it. I'm just saying, I do think that because you have the affluence of time and wealth, you actually have the space to think about it and respond to it, and that means that you. Are fat, lazy people Totally. Totally. Uh, so you can edit that out if you need to, but I No, we don't

Curt:

do that. Just have cussed even. I was six. I get an E on almost all my episodes. I think we did. We did already. We did. But uh, but it's a pretty clean show. You can let your kids listen to. It'll be

Aaron:

fine. My kids listen to it. I, I do think that that's just something that is just unique about, you know, we have built this incre, like there is this incredible result and sort of inheritance of capitalism, inheritance of, of Republican democracy, republic democracy. Um, that I think leaves us in an affluent space. We are very wealthy people. Yeah. Comparatively. And that, uh, that means that we have time. It means that we have an energy to think about things that we might not otherwise just have to move past if we're hungry. Right. You know? Um,

Curt:

well, and I think there's, part of it is, Like if you're hungry, part of your purpose can be find some food. Mm-hmm. you know, and so there's a lot of just like, who am I? What am I, I mean, to talk to my, I mean, you homeschool your kids, so they probably don't have this kind of interaction. But to talk to my 13 to 16 year old Absolutely. Uh, teenage boy, like my friends that have those kind of, or girls. Yeah. But well, the girls are suffering the most and the boys are like, what the fuck going on? What is happening? Yeah. Like she was a, he for a while now she's a, they, and she had a boyfriend, but now she has a girlfriend that also is a they. Yep. But I'm not sure if it's a girlfriend or a

Aaron:

what's just. A level of confusion that I think really, I mean, I, I have lots of reasons to think about why that's the case. I mean, I think we've lost Western civilization principles, which means that there's, you know, we, I don't care who, who you name it, but for the most part, most west of Western civilization is always named that there was something greater than the, than you. Right? There was a God or there was a, some sort of deity or there was some, you know, something was sort of orchestrating the world and so that meant that there was something to respond to. We don't really have that anymore. I don't think culturally we're there. I don't think people are very interested in that stuff. And so when you don't have that, yeah, then everything becomes sort of, It's all up for grabs.

Curt:

Yeah. I'm writing my blog right now. I'm, I've got maybe a page or two left to make the turn. And it's, uh, fateful, grateful, and plateful, uh, and fateful was the word that I really zeroed in on as, as I started making the turn. And as it turns out, a lot of the definitions are like calamus and, you know, terrible things and whatever. And I used it as a, in a positive way. And it was more, uh, what was, it was for ordained was one of the words, but also faded to occur. Yeah. And I thought to myself that those two parts of the definition are kind of like almost opposite, like faded to occur almost. Sounds like the, the world's gonna be the world no matter what you, how much you kick and scream against it. Right. And for ordained almost sounds like there's a, you know, intelligent design, a god yeah. Person there, or dating this thing and you better not kick against that either.

Aaron:

both things come from the same spirit. And I think that's one of the things that Western Civilization has been really benefited from Yeah. Is that they, there is a sense that something else is in control besides a

Curt:

sense of spirit and truth. Yeah. Something, here's the spirit, here's the truth, and they are resident and work together. Yeah. To bid, you know, something's wrong.

Aaron:

I had somebody, an interesting conversation with somebody the other day, um, you know, they said, well, you can't put this moral equivalence on truth in terms of the left says, you know, they, they, they feel like they have sort of a monopoly on, on truth. Um, yeah. And what truth is, and I said, well, look, if you sat down with a bunch of right wing people, they would tell you that what they think is true. Sure. And that person said, well, you can't, we gotta stop, we gotta stop sort of correlating that there's a moral equivalency between both people's truths. Right. And I was like, well, but you guys have advocated for no truth for so long and that everyone's truth is relative. So how now? Are we at the place where you can say and advocate that's, no, this is my truth. There's

Curt:

a truth. What is a truth? Yeah.

Aaron:

We don't have that answer. Yeah. And I, and so I think it's a really interesting moment we're in. I think politics is way downstream of what's actually happening. If, if, if culturally, you know, if culturally everything is sort of owned by this relativist

Curt:

or postmodern kind, post modern concept, lack of truth kind of thing,

Aaron:

then you know, I'm guess my politics, I'm not surprised that we end up with the Washington General

Curt:

Fair. I'm not surprised. Well, it's not like the Republicans or the wash or the spirit of truth and anyway.

Aaron:

No, no. And you know, you see fill out that ballot and you just are just, you're so gross.

Curt:

You just gross out. Oh, how about the, uh, free school lunch for all children and we only tax the super. Yeah.

Aaron:

Well, there were,

Curt:

I don't see, I don't, it's pretty easy to pass if you're not super rich.

Aaron:

I don't vote on ballot initiatives. I have a lot of, I have some principal reason behind that. Well, I'd think direct democracy is a dangerous thing. Mm. And I think if you're not, if you're gonna go ahead and have the top of the ticket be all these representatives that you're supposed to vote or do your damn job, right. do do it. D i j just do it. You know? I mean, if, if you're really

Curt:

in, if you actually are representative bureaucracy. Yeah. If you're gonna

Aaron:

believe that these people are, the people we're trying to get us to the top of the ticket in order for them to do the job and solve the problems and be represented, the problem is, is that they're, we're just so woefully underrepresented because the population's exploded. The point at which people can't be represented by anybody. Right. And so when that happens, then now we have to have this direct democracy kind of conversation. And thus, Conversations about it's okay to pass magic mushrooms or whatever as a, as a deal, but you can't sell liquor in a grocery store. Right. It's really like incongruent, you know? And I think that's just such an interesting thing. I

Curt:

want it just that way though. Well,

Aaron:

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with how that I'm the wedding tea. Yeah. Good for you. Um, but I, you know, I, I think, I, I think there's some wisdom in, in the idea that we need representation. Yeah.

Curt:

And I think we want people to think it through a little bit more. A lot of times people tell me they don't vote. They don't know enough about the issues and stuff. Right? And I'm like, well, that's fine ish. But, but if we had government, because, because that

Aaron:

takes a whole hour to redo the research.

Curt:

Well, and government. But, but the thing is, is if if we trusted that we were electing representatives that would actually represent us and study deeper and stuff, then that's better. But everybody's so cynical about that too. It's like, well, what's your agenda? Like literally, if I announced for, I'm running for Congress. State of Colorado Congress next year or something. Yeah. People are like, well, what are you trying to gain? Well, that's just the piece, right? Or are you just stupid? Yeah. Either you got some angle or you're dumb

Aaron:

when there's some wisdom. There was some wisdom in the idea that, you know, the constitution says that you should be represented between 20 and 30,000 people. Yeah. Now, I'm, I can acquiesce a little bit to that to say, well, that maybe that number should be closer to a hundred thousand. Maybe that number should be somewhere in like one, one per, you know, one person Represe represents a hundred thousand people. Although I think that's really crazy to think at the US level. You mean the US level? Yeah. I think that would be a more practical thing, but we're, we are real legitimately dealing with the

Curt:

number of rep 300 some million and 4 35.

Aaron:

Yeah, so currently the number, the statistics or the number would be 750,000 people is what you're representing to get at that. The one representative represents seven 50,000 people. The senator represents closer to like 3 million people, right? I

Curt:

mean, Yeah.

Aaron:

How does that person, so the Constitution initially said that that should be somewhere between 20 and 30,000 people per representative. Mm-hmm. they also didn't have direct elect election of senators because they felt like the states needed their, in, they needed influence at the federal level. Well, so

Curt:

the state legislatures,

Aaron:

the state legislature and the governors actually picked the senators. Mm. Interesting. And whoever was the majority of that state had the opportunity to pick those senators. Mm. And I, I don't, so I don't vote for senators and I, and I don't vote for, uh, ballot initiatives because I think both of them are gross, uh, misre. So if I run for senate, You wouldn't get my vote. Really? I wouldn't vote for you. Not because you, I don't like it and it's just, I don't think it's, I don't think it's something that we should be doing.

Curt:

Well, can I get your ballot and I'll vote for you? Just kidding. Vote early

Aaron:

vote often. It happens. Anyway, that won't matter. That's the other thing I was gonna say. I think Republicans, if they're ever going to try to be a part of this, need to stop the sour grapes thing on mail and

Curt:

voting Right. The make it easy. Try to get everybody to vote. Yeah. If, hey, if

Aaron:

it's, if that's really what it is, then go win the deal. Don't, don't go persuade people that they need to deal with this. I mean, I do think I still think if, if you have an election day, it should be an election day. I don't think it

Curt:

should be an election for counting. Just to make sure. Well,

Aaron:

what was the one that, the old Saturday Night Live skit that was like, I saw a meme of somebody doing it where it was the. I'm Nora, uh, and I'm DUIs. You ever like the short, she had like tiny hands. Okay. Anyway, there's the song playing in the back and the first one says Florida counted 8 million votes one afternoon. You know, and that's Nora. She's, and then they got to Arizona. It's like, and I'm DUIs. Cause its just, they can't even count 2 million votes. I, I think some of that stuff is like, we just need

Curt:

like Shapiro's, like I think Arizona's apparently being counted by a blind sloth with one arm missing. Send

Aaron:

it all up to the Oracle to decide who, if you can't. I mean, it's really funny to me that we can't vote on the same day that

Curt:

we all ridiculous

Aaron:

can, can't count them every other place in the world, does it? I mean, Brazil knew who won their election the night of. Yeah.

Curt:

So it's two days before even. It's just, it's

Aaron:

just odd to me that we, we stretch it out as long as we do. Um, You know,

Curt:

if I had my way, let's say Brazil's a great example of the, the problems of polarization and Yeah. Uh, I mean, Yeah. Yeah. I set my Brazilian friend the, uh, the South Park skit of the, uh, the, the whatever, the douche and the turd sandwich And they were like, how did you know

Aaron:

I think, uh, I would love, you know, if I had, if I could wave a magic wand, I would go with more represented representation. I think I'd go back to non-direct election of senators, weak president. I'd have a very weak president. I'd have, uh, no ballot initiatives. And I think I would,

Curt:

uh, what would you do with lobbying? Term limits, stuff like that.

Aaron:

I think if representation was more representative right. Then lobbyists goes away.

Curt:

Right? Right. Go talk to my congressman if I want to, or send him a letter. Well, or

Aaron:

easier the lobbyist on the other side. Spread itself so thin that

Curt:

there's no money left, there's no huge concentration of power because there's only 20,000 people in your district or whatever.

Aaron:

Right. And so that person is harder to be bought. Yeah. Whereas now, if one person for every 750,000 people, right. That

Curt:

they only have to go

Aaron:

margin off of that. They only have to go talk to Really? They only have to talk 218 people. Right. In order to make what they want happen. Happen. Right. And they'll have to pay off 218 people if they had to pay off 20,000. That's a very different thing. Totally. And I think that, you know, there's no reason the limitation of the building. I mean, we, because we can't all meet in the capital. It doesn't work, you know, I think that's silly. We

Curt:

got lots of stadiums,

Aaron:

we have Zoom. I mean, for God's sakes, we just watched that play out in front of us. You know, I mean, I think you, you can have all sorts of solutions to this. Okay.

Curt:

Uh, quick, Washington DC question. Do you think that the Washington commanders will get a different name in the NFL here? I don't know. Do you even know about that? I, well, no. I mean, do you know about the Redskins? They lost their name. Yeah, I do know that last year they were the Washington football team. Yes. I do know that this year they're the Washington commanders. Okay. Which seems like the weakest, why don't they just go with Gen generals, They should.

Aaron:

I don't know. I, I think it's, so, gosh, it's such an interesting world that we're in. I mean, I, I, and again, culture is so far. Upstream of all of that stuff. Right. That's a great

Curt:

example. So the thing is, we like, we don't really have a chance of fixing our politics unless we start working on our culture.

Aaron:

Well, and I think that culturally, I'm not advocating for a monolithic culture. Right. I'm really not. I don't think that that's healthy, but I do think that we culturally have to come to a place where we actually can be neighbors. Yeah. I think we have to be able to talk to each other. Yeah. Yeah. We have to be able to have discussions and disagree and learn how to have cordial disagreements about things. Because if we are not gonna do that, then this, then politics is like

Curt:

the dumb end. Well, and maybe we could even agree on what is virtue, what is, you know, to a certain extent, right? Like we're not gonna be able to agree that, you know, you can't have two girls that are married that raise children and stuff like nobody's gonna agree to that kind of level of things. But can we agree that. You know, we don't start separatist cities within cities and take out government buildings, you know, stuff like

Aaron:

that. Yeah. I mean, I, I think there's a lot of reasons that there's a lot of places we can agree and I think there are things that Americans are much more aligned in their thinking and interests of their own families, of their own communities. Yeah. I think they can be. I think we've gotten to a place where that cultural influence is so strong, um, to the, the sort of, I don't know. It's very segmented. We have a very segmented culture. Yeah. And when you do that, then the interests become yours only. Yeah. Yeah. And my interests can align with

Curt:

your, you don't have the weird professor at the neighborhood, no block party because they just don't come because it's not his kind. Well, they might have to

Aaron:

run into somebody that has a MAGA hat on. Right. And they just can't, there's just like, it's Right. And vice versa. Yeah. And they're so intolerable I can't do it. Huh. So I think if we could, if we could find out that we could have some common things around, um, A cultural aspect of what makes maybe

Curt:

recovering from World War ii. we may be there. I need to take a break. Are you ready? Yeah, let's go. Let's do it. Oh, and we're back. Great. So we were gonna talk about fish rubbers. Yeah, I remember that. Is that is it might as well talk

Aaron:

about, might as switch to that. We've, uh, talked about the rubber heads up in Washington

Curt:

long enough, so, right. The generals. Yes. I'm just gonna call the generals from now on. All of

Aaron:

them Uh, yeah, so fish rubber is pretty fun deal. So as always, um, artists just. Creating new things. So fly fisherman, love, fly fishing's. Kind of a family history piece. Uh, remember my granddad's funeral actually? Yeah. It was a, that was kind of the, my uncle's final plea to people was to come join in the water type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we've been a fly fishing family for forever. My great-granddad started and my grandpa was a fisherman, uh, fly fisherman. My uncle, my dad have all been fly fishermen. I'm reading

Curt:

the basalt frying pan anglers up there. Oh my. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron:

And I fell in love with fishing, uh, probably 25 years ago. I, I've been fishing since I was nine. Oh, wow. Didn't necessarily love it. When I was young, I never caught a fish. It was sort of frustrating. We spent a lot of time, my parent, dad and uncle, we'd had a membership on the, uh, Laramie River outside of, it's called the Diamond Tail Ranch, and it's fantastic spot. It's kind of in between, uh, gel and on the, on the

Curt:

deal vector. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Rosebud by the ranch Colorado or What's that? Is it Yco B Lodge and stuff? Yeah, it's

Aaron:

all kind of back in that area. Yeah. Anyway, so we had a membership up there and my dad would send my cousin Grant and I and Lane and they'd say, you guys walk that way as far as you can go. And then we'll start here. So we never saw, so fishing was always just a big tangled up mess and getting, falling in and getting

Curt:

wet. Who was the most annoying out of uh, lane Grant? Oh,

Aaron:

I don't know. We were all terrible. I mean, we were all just terrible at it. And it was like by the, you know, I don't know, an hour or two into it, you're just throwing rocks cuz there's like,

Curt:

this is right. I'm not catching any fish anyway in my rod is, yeah, this is

Aaron:

dumb line is tangled, all tangled up and I can't, you know. So, um, but I kind of fell in love with it in college buddies. Uh, and I started fishing a lot more. Grant, actually, grant and I ended up fishing a lot more when we, when I first started college. And we'd go up to Marine Park after school and I'd pick him up from his house and we'd drive up and go fish, Rocky Mountain National Park every afternoon. Wow. Had a lot of fun doing that and grew, kind of grew to love the sport and I got kind of better at it, started introducing my friends to it and kind of getting them to come and be a part of it. And, um,

Curt:

Yeah, you go off on a big horn tour every year with some people, old Scotty that used to be on our board at the Matthews house.

Aaron:

Yeah. So, uh, and that's actually who is a partner with me in Fish rubbers. Oh, okay. All right. So Scotty and I are, are really good friends, uh, is one of my best friends in the whole world. Uh, yeah. Hello Scott We, uh, yeah, we just have had a great connection over the years and, you know, I think I appreciate his talents. He's done every logo for every business I've ever done. He's, I give a shameless plug to Red Side Marketing cuz I think he's as talented as anybody I know. Okay. In that space, is he

Curt:

independent now? He was working as part of a larger agency. Yeah. He, he

Aaron:

kind of got the, just over the years just kind of developed the courage to go out on his own. Yeah, yeah. Uh, his company that he was at ended up saying that they were gonna dissolve anyway, and so it was just this kind of, oh, alright, well I guess I'm gonna go, you

Curt:

can gimme a severance package. Right.

Aaron:

So he, um, he's super talented guy and he's done. Pretty much every logo I've ever been involved in. Um, we were fishing on the Bighorn, um, in April, actually. Okay. And we were fishing with a, one of my favorite guides in the whole world, and he had a little rubber band on his vest, and he kept drying the fly off by putting the fly in and stretching that. And then then pull like plucking the rubber band. Oh, yeah. And then that would just dust, it would just draft the,

Curt:

if you can't, if you shake the fly, it doesn't do much. But if you Yeah. There's all these vibrations that get off. Yeah. It's like playing a guitar with your, with your fly. Yeah. And

Aaron:

so we got back to the house that evening again. I was like, man, that was a really cool idea. I can't even believe that. I've never thought of that. Right. You know, and so we started talking that evening and Scott's like, we should come up with something like that. We should make something like that. I was like, yeah, okay. I was busy, didn't think anything of it. And then this summer we all went back out and went fishing again with all, excuse me. All my friends from college, we all went out. We do an annual trip. And I tied a rubber band on my pack and was like, you know what, that's one of the most brilliant ideas. And so we got back from that trip and he and I sat down and ordered all the parts and ended up making this little assembly. Okay. Which is a little clip that goes on your vest or your bag. Right, right. This UV protected, indestructible rubber band. And then a little o-ring, like kinda like an eyelet like you'd have on your key chain. Yeah. And you put the fly through the key chain and you'd do this thing and do, he came up with all the marketing for it, which is, so we called it fish rubbers. So it's, it's not safe sex for fish It's, uh, it's this. Just a rubber band that dries off our flies. Um, which has been really fun. And so that's

Curt:

good because the fly floats on the water better, right? Yeah. Like if you're fishing and it sinks, that's the goal is to

Aaron:

get the fly if you're dry, fly fishing to get the fly to be on top. Yeah. So we've had a lot of fun with it. We've had a blast making videos and Instagram things and whatever, and it's been fun to actually try again. Here's another little thing. You try to take something that didn't exist six months ago and make it into something and um, have you had some sales and stuff? Oh yeah. It's actually like, it's actually been a profitable business thus far, so, lord, well

Curt:

you guys got rubbers to buy. This is rubber barns, right? Don't gotta go cut a barns up there. Nope. I

Aaron:

And the, and the work is sit at a brewery and assemble them so it's not, you know, my

Curt:

time is you probably, it's be there anyway. If you take me up to s dodgy sometime I'll sit there and assemble fish rubbers with you. Perfect. I, I'm gonna go with Aaron and work on fish rubbers again.

Aaron:

So we had a blast still. Totally understand. We had a blast with it. It's, we're having a blast with it. We're having a lot of fun. We're seeing some, uh, just some, you know, it's just, it's one of those things that maybe if we get lucky, we'll have enough revenue out of it that we can take a fishing trip next year.

Curt:

Right. Well, and maybe in four years Orvis or Right. Somebody would be like, Hey, you know, we like that idea. I'll give you a couple hundred thousand dollars for that. And you'd be like, yep, here you go. Here you go. Here's all of our

Aaron:

stuff. Yeah. So where I'm blessed with it, I've had just, I love working with Scott. Like I said, I've, one is just one of my very best friends in the world. I think he's, he's really, you know, so to be able to sit down and kind of come up with these creative things and laugh about those stuff, it's been great. Well,

Curt:

that's one of the problems for us White types that have all these ideas. You know, I don't know if you still have the same pace that you used to, but like, I'd like to say it's easy for me to come up with 10 ideas a day. Yeah. Uh, less than. A hundred a week is harder, you know? Yeah. And it might be different kinds, just little ideas and big ideas and stuff, but there's not enough time. You

Aaron:

can't chase 'em all, but the motor runs all the time. I mean, that's really true. I think I've had to learn to live with that in my life and just let it be,

Curt:

go like, just be silent and background sometimes, and every once in

Aaron:

a while you wanna get off the couch and do the idea. Yeah. You know, and that's kind of what fish rubbers is. It was an idea that was out there and it was like, man, that is so cool. Be really fun to do. Ah, forget it. I

Curt:

got too much to do. Is there anybody else in the marketplace? No. Everybody is like, nobody even knows it's a thing. Right, right. That why need one 10th of 1% of old cos that are sworn to secrecy, you actually use the fish rubber. Yeah. Why would I use that?

Aaron:

Oh yeah. So anyway, it's been really fun. We've had a good time with it. We've got some laughs out of it. Do you have intellectual protection? Probably. We're trying, yeah. Trying to get that done. And patents are hard to file. Yeah. Just particularly utility patents. They're a specialized deal, but we're working on it. Right. So that'd be the idea that it's, I like it. Orvis or Shields or somebody who's out there and says, Hey, that's a good idea. Then we have a reason why we can be able to get some revenue out of it.

Curt:

You know, we, we have done the, this is your fourth time on the show, I think. Mm-hmm. uh, we've done the faith, family politics things at least once or twice. Is there any family updates that you'd like to share? What's going on with the boys? Uh, your oldest is fencing. What?

Aaron:

Yeah, so my oldest son, Marcus, is super talented actually at fencing. He likes a fencing, which is a style of fencing, um, which means you can touch the person anywhere. So be their shoe, their leg, their arm.

Curt:

Oh. Otherwise, just like the body

Aaron:

foil fencing is all just the foot face. So he really likes a fencing and, uh, very involved in it. And he's, um, yeah, just he's got such a unique personality and so just gifted in these little spaces like this. So, um, yeah, been fun to watch him kind of excel at that. I've got two guys swim in. I've got two guys in the Fort Collins or the Northern Colorado. Youth orchestra that are doing that are playing, what are they playing? Violin and. Oh,

Curt:

Viola is like a big violin.

Aaron:

Little bit bigger violin. Yeah. That's like the, I guess be an alto type vibe, but

Curt:

not the standup kind of thing. No, no, not what's that called? So

Aaron:

there's cello that would the next one. So it'd be violin, viola, cello, and then bass. Cool. Uh, they're having a great time doing that. We're, I, we're actually after this, we're headed off to talk about Crime and Punishment with my buddy for Dr. Mo. So, um,

Curt:

oh, this is like the professor guy that's walking you guys through some

books

Aaron:

for your Yeah, so this, this year we've, uh, since I was on last time, we read Mic and Men Grapes A Wrath. So this would be since

Curt:

August. So we were Steinbeck, huh Stein another dot the FCA too. I recommend The Idiot if you do. Yeah. Well you

Aaron:

said that and I, I actually haven't read that yet, but we're doing, um, so

Curt:

is is Crime and Punishment is, no, that's not dust. That's, uh, short. It, yeah, it is. Yeah, it's do, yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, he was a killer, right? The Brother's Cameras of Crime and Punishment.

Aaron:

Yeah. Really, really amazing. Yeah. So we are doing, so we did Micen Men, uh, grapes Wrath. We did things fall apart. Uh, Which is a fantastic book. Uh, it's African parable type of thing. Okay. Um, really, really good.

Curt:

Sounds like relevant to our world

Aaron:

today. Yes. So it's, it's actually based on the poem. The, uh, Robert Frost poem. The Things Fall Apart Oh. Sort of. So it's in this really interesting world that was really cool. We also, um, read, uh, their Eyes Are Watching God, so another really great book about sort of southern experience, um, Southern American experience of the African American experience. Yeah. Yeah. So really cool

Curt:

stuff. You've probably listened to the hardcore history. Mm-hmm. some mm-hmm. Have you, have you heard one of his more recent ones that he did after he kind of quit doing stuff is, I forget what it's called. Uh, it's basically an examination of the, of the Atlantic Slave trade. Hmm. But for like, I haven't listened to. Like five episodes of five hours each really? Or something. I forget what the, what the title of the overall thing, but is what Yeah, it's pretty good.

Aaron:

Things Fall Apart was awesome. It's, it's sort of a conversation around colonialism, although the, the author, um, which after a glass of whiskey, I'm not quite sure if I can remember his name, but the author did a fantastic job of, um, kind of discussing the idea of colonialism as an influence, but also that Africa wasn't Eden either. Right. Which I thought was really cool. That I thought was a really good way to tackle this human experience. So when I, when, uh, Dr. Mo and I started talking about what are we gonna do with our kids, right? With my kids? And how are we gonna do this? One of the things we had a long discussion about was that, um, the, the human experience craves how a discussion around how we order our lives. Mm. And how do we do that? And so all these authors, if you, if you take it from that perspective, each author typically is writing about the human experience in relationship to how their lives are ordered. Yeah. Yeah. Steinbeck has these conversations about what happens when things aren't, Hemingway

Curt:

went to war in parts. We could write about that shit later. Right? Right. How do we,

Aaron:

what is this? What does this mean? And how do we organize this and order our lives? And so these are really cool novels that he's, we kind of picked out each of these and said, you know, each of these have a particular lens kind of conversation around it. You know, my Men is a great little book, but, but also has a lot of heavy conversations about what does it mean, what is order? Right. You know, did, did Lenny deserve what he got at the end? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, that's, that's a really interesting conversation.

Curt:

Well, it's fair. What is just, yeah. How.

Aaron:

And so to have my kids have that conversation, those discussions has been super fun. Crime and Punishment is what we're doing now. We just finished the first, uh, first section of that book and um, yeah. So it'll be, things are good.

Curt:

Yeah. Things are good with the kids. As the oldest one got like a college he's gonna target, don't know. Well, they're talking, he's

Aaron:

17 now. Twins are both 17 and

Curt:

there's two. That's right. Actually, that's the way the twins are. And

Aaron:

um, one of them is just sort of, kind of plating. Uh, I think I might wanna work for a minute until I know what I want to do, which I'm very much an advocate of. Had a discussion the other night with somebody who was like, nah, they should just go right. You know, people, kids should go right to college. And I was like, well, I don't know any 19 year olds that are, that are really great at economic decisions in their life. So you're gonna ask 'em to spend a hundred thousand dollars or more on something that they may not, um, really understand what they're doing.

Curt:

So if they're spending their parents' money, that's fine. Yeah. But just kidding. Not really. Yeah. I mean, even at that, I mean, they should be stewards of their parents' money as well. There should be some

Aaron:

conversation around what are you doing? And I don't know that most 19 year olds, most people, I don't know, most people take the path, at least resistance, right? So they go to college and they have a dream, they're, I'm gonna be an engineer. And it turns out to be hard. So they become like whatever else. Yeah. They basket weave or they do psychology or they do whatever theology on, you

Curt:

know, I'm an economist. Yeah. I started in engineering, but. So that's

Aaron:

how that goes. Right. So then, and then you've spent a hundred thousand or more dollars on something that at the end of the day, I think has less and less value in our society for sure. I think most employers are looking at things and going like, well, yeah,

Curt:

will you show up? Can you do hvac? Yeah.

Aaron:

Can you show up? Right. You know, that's a big start. So anyway, that's what he's interested in doing. One of my, the other, uh, twin is looking at, uh, a small bible college that's a one year bible college in Estes Park actually. Interesting. So he's kinda fascinated by around that stuff. He

Curt:

wants to be a pastor potentially, or just checking it out as something span Is learning

Aaron:

span is learning is captivated by the idea of just being in that sort of setting. Yeah, I think I'd encourage it. It was a great, it was the best thing I ever did in my life was a year long Bible college. I met my best friends in the world and, uh, I think it's really valuable. So

Curt:

that's how the kids are, are all your kids cuz they're 14 to 17, is that right? So have all the, have they all come to a faith position in their lives? Yeah.

Aaron:

But I, I think, uh, kind of uniquely on their own, honestly. Yeah. Well that's, yeah, Anna and I, you know, I, I think that's a really important piece of, of life. It's an important piece of my life. It's an important piece of Anna's life Sure. Is to is their faith in God, particularly in Jesus that's a part of our lives. Um, but we never really, we never really made them, we haven't made them go to church. Yeah. Uh, we didn't say that they needed to be baptized or anything like that, but each of them has have sort of individually done that on their own. Yeah. So, um, it was really cool. Anna and I were actually on a trip, this is years ago. We were on a trip in California and um, our friends that were watching the kids called and said, Hey, we're at church. Elias and Emerson wanna get baptized. Are you okay with that And we're like, yeah, absolutely. Sure. It's their call. It'd be great to be there, but

Curt:

Right. You know, we can watch one wants the pictures, but I guess good enough video. Yeah.

Aaron:

We'll take some video and, uh, that's pretty cool. Happy for them. You know, and a lot of people I think, make that a much more, you know, and that's their decision. Right,

Curt:

right. I think that's really good. Well, it's more about the ceremony and the pomp and circumstance and things like

Aaron:

that. Well, they're making their declaration, right? Yeah. They're making their declaration about what they believe. So, um, that isn't necessarily that I need to be there to take pictures of it. Yeah. So anyway, that's kind of the, the story of there and, and, and, um, is cool. We went to Hillsong the other night. It was at Laer County, at the Budweiser Events Center. It was just fun to watch my kids kind of respond to things Yeah. Yeah. Without me saying, you need to do this. Yeah, yeah. You know, so, um, anyway, they're, they've all kind of come in their own individual time and in their own life. Um, and they're making their decisions as they, as they do. And I, and I'm proud of 'em for it.

Curt:

You know, I think that's cool. Yeah. Um, we said we would revisit, uh, another loco experience that you would be willing to share. Yeah. Uh, anything that's, uh, on your

Aaron:

heart. Yeah. Well I think, um, you know, we, I touched on a little bit earlier, um, just I think the idea of somebody not too long ago said, you know, I think if you wanted to have more influence in whatever, you'd be more consistent in your, in your life. Yeah. And I kind of blustered at that a bit. I got not necessarily offended, but it was like, just cuz that resonance of truth was in the back of my head. Like, well, I've kind of doubted that anyway. Right, right. Um, and I think,

Curt:

um, my, is it better to be focused on something instead of doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that or,

Aaron:

yeah, and my, I think my. My lo experience with that is that for most of my life I've had this, you know, I grew up in a pretty wealthy family, right? So the sky felt like there wasn't a limit. You'd be whatever you wanna be, right? Right. And so you kind of tried different things and. Explore different things. I think one of the interesting things as I'm getting to the age I am Yeah. 40, 47 years old, um, you, you start to wonder like, well, what, what does become of the next season of my life? Yeah. And I'm in that dilemma at the moment, right? I'm trying to decide, uh, do I want to be a real estate broker the rest of my life,

Curt:

right? Or you can make a hell of a living probably. Yeah. My kids will be fed. You never have to learn anything new. The whole time I've read that

Aaron:

contract 7 million times, I, you know, I can help anybody in any situation, in any real estate circumstance, I'm probably pretty good at it, which is awesome. Happy to help. Don't want to necessarily, I'm not saying don't call me business. I'm not saying don't do it, but I, I think that's one of the things I'm, I'm wrestling with right now, which is like, well, if that's what I am and that's what I'm gonna be, am I deciding to be a real estate person for the rest of my life? Which ultimately at the beginning of my life or like as I became an adult, Was the thing. I didn't wanna be, it was always available to you. It was always there and I didn't want to be it, frankly. Right, right, right. I mean, I left, I went to Canada. I wanted to be in the church. I wanted to do whatever else was available because I just, I was not on my list of things to be. Yeah, yeah. And here I am. I find myself 40, 20 years removed, 25 years removed from being in college, being in a theology major and wanting to be a worship leader at a church. And I'm right where I

Curt:

started doing a bunch of real estate. What I, what I think the But that I see is that you got this in motion thing. Yeah. That you don't have to do it all. And it's hard. It's harder than some of the other things that you're up to because it requires a lot more infrastructure to be created. I mean, the email address we shared is, it's the Gmail addresses and motion NOCO gmail.com. You know, there's some things to be created there to turn that into a scalable business that can geographically expand and, you know, see that marketplace served in the same way in other places.

Aaron:

Yeah. And I, so I think that's my current loco experience wrestling is, you know, we talked about it the last time growing up here. Um, I love it here. It's a wonderful place, but it's come with all sorts of stuff for me. Yeah. You know, it really has, and, and I think this is one of those pieces that it shows itself is this like, am I consistent enough as a human being in what I'm doing in terms of a career that I can actually now have lasting influence in some space? Hmm. And I, I, you know, you start to wrestle with that, I think as we get older. Yeah. And you try to wrestle with like, does is, am I just the insatiable guy that jumps from thing to thing to thing to thing to thing? Or can I actually be, uh, involved in this place and, and actually have something that I focus on for a period of time that actually is definable? Um, and whether, and the wrestling match for me is. Is that good

Curt:

Right. You know, do I want that? Do I even care about that?

Aaron:

Yeah. Do I even care? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, I think there's opportunities that come with consistency that I wouldn't otherwise have. Uh, but I also think that my life has been this just really robust wild adventure if I wrote it down and finally wrote everything down that we, that I'd done in my life. Right. Um, my kids, my kids always joke about the trailer business we used to have that I had and sold. And he's always like, don't forget the trailer to Brandon. He's like, don't forget the trailers. You know? Cause it's always one of these things. It was just like an afterthought. Yeah. We can do this. Um, and I, and I think that's, uh, I think it's partially, I, I wouldn't want to trade any of that. Yeah. But I'm wrestling with that in my life currently. You know, what does consistency mean

Curt:

and what does it, what does it look like? Well, tell you what, if you can turn in motion into a highly profitable reproducible with a key employee that. Makes it work, because that's gonna probably be clutch at some point. Mm-hmm. um, and then scalable. Then you can just bug out and go move to Sheridan and feel like you left some legacy on northern Colorado here. And if it takes five or 10 years, it's cool. I do love Sheridan cause Sheridan's more like Fort Collins that we loved. Yeah. Anyway. Or that you, we went, we were, I was up

Aaron:

there last week really? We, we bought a, we bought a house, do a Airbnb in, up there. Um, and I was with my old friend from here. He's, he was my best friend in high school, uh, Brent. And we were in, we were, we had a fundraiser. He and his wife were like, Hey, why don't you come to a fundraiser with us? We'd love to see, uh, it'd be great to just get together, you know, dinners on us type of thing. Yeah. So we went and, uh, I commented to him, I said, you know, every time I'm here, I feel like I'm, it's like 25 years. Right. And he's like, yeah, man, that's why we moved here because it's what I remember of Fort Collins when we were growing up. Yeah. You know, it was a really small town and it was a really rode our bikes everywhere and Yeah. Did all sorts of stuff. You know, it was just, it was a small town. Um, I don't know that I'd trade what's become a Fort Collins. It's a really good place.

Curt:

Yeah. Oh, it offers so many amazing amenities compared to what it had that time. Had that time. Yeah, for sure.

Aaron:

For sure. Golden China or whatever. and Kainos. Um, but those things are, you know, what's fun about Sheridan and I suppose on some level, Glenwood, when we go there, is that. They feel like what I remember of Colorado 25 years ago. And there's something about that little nostalgia in my life. Yeah, that's good. So my dad

Curt:

would like to leave here. Really? Oh yeah, he's ready. If he could get the rest of the family to follow him somewhere, he would be. If he could go to

Aaron:

Sheridan and be there for the rest of his time, I think he would be a very happy man.

Curt:

Really? Yeah. But he'd want to have his grandkids around a little bit more and stuff like that. I don't know. He's, he's an

Aaron:

oddball. I don't know if that's

Curt:

exactly it. Fair enough.

Aaron:

If his wife goes with him as my mom

Curt:

goes with him, then that's fine. Well, I'm excited to, uh, by the way, for those listeners out there that are motorcycle riders, I'm doing a high speed, uh, guys mountain tour mostly of Montana and western Wyoming, starting and ending in Sheridan in August. So ping me if you're interested in that. But we're gonna be at. Significantly in excess of posted speed, limit speed a lot of the time. So you gotta be ready. Well, you can do that in Montana and Wyoming. Montana and Wyoming. Yeah. That's very, not so much in Colorado though. Very doable. Montana or Wyoming, they'll write you a ticket, but it's not half as much as they are in Colorado. Well, and they usually

Aaron:

just chase you down and say, what are you doing dummy

Curt:

Right. Why don't you go to 85? Oh well because you got a nice motorcycle. Carry on. Hey, what kind of thing are you, How fast that thing go? Anyway, let's

Aaron:

test it out. I'll escort you. Uh,

Curt:

do you, uh, do you wanna tell people how to find you so they can rent a contract on that sweet house that just came down off the high list price?

Aaron:

Sure. Uh, You can find me at, just email me Everett. Everett Real estate at gmail. I

Curt:

That's all. That's all we use. It's Gmail way in motion, NOCO gmail.com and everett real estate gmail.com. And sometimes it takes him a few days to respond to emails, but he will get back to you, especially if there's a contract to be written. I

Aaron:

do.

Curt:

Love you. I do too.

Aaron:

No, it's good. I, it's fun to be together. I enjoyed this so much. It's really good. Thank you.

Curt:

Thanks for reader. Do it.