The LoCo Experience

Experience 78 | Daniel Treat - Photographer, Philosopher and Video Creator

August 29, 2022 Ethan Lee Season 2 Episode 78
The LoCo Experience
Experience 78 | Daniel Treat - Photographer, Philosopher and Video Creator
Show Notes Transcript

Daniel Treat is a photographer and video creative working with Nexus International.  Daniel and his wife were my wedding photographers, and he's lived a very interesting life, recently returning from the Republic of Georgia, where he spent a portion of his growing up years - and was briefly a national TV star during his youth! 

This episode is a thoughtful one, with lots of learning on culture and philosophy and the journey of life. 

Tune in and enjoy this conversation with Daniel Treat!

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Curt:

My guest on today's episode was Daniel treat and I met Daniel when he was my wedding photographer, along with his wife, Rita. During my wife and I's wedding in 2003, early in their business. And, he had a five year business journey, but I had to Daniel on because he is, had such an interesting life story. He spent a lot of his, late teen and early twenties years in the Republic of Georgia. So just south of Ukraine. And talks a lot about what that experience was like. He became a rap music and a DJ TV, a TV star in that small nation way back in the day and has lived a really interesting life since then, and has got a great and interesting new chapter starting now and so different than a lot of our episodes. This one is a lot more, thoughtful on cultural changes and differences and, just what it's like to be in that part of the world. So I hope you listen in and enjoy this conversation with Daniel treat. Welcome back to the local experience podcast. I'm honored today to be joined by Daniel, treat the media coordinator for nexus international, and we've got a lot of common stories to tell. And we started our conversation today by looking at my wedding photo on the wall. That's right with Daniel was the photographer for, uh, my wedding 19 years ago.

Daniel:

Only as that's how long it's been on 19 years.

Curt:

Yeah. That's when you first started verge photography. That's

Daniel:

right. Cuz I think you were one of the first in our lineup that year.

Curt:

Yeah, I believe so. And that was that first year that you were really in business? Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So tell me about the time leading up to starting your very first business. What, what was your place in life? Were you, you were already married.

Daniel:

Yeah. Rita and I were already married. Um, let's see, we got married in 1996. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, and then I started working as a photographer because my wife said, um, she said, you gotta either get rid of this hobby or make it into a business or, oh, interesting. You're in

Curt:

trouble. and you had another job, but you were hobbying up on

Daniel:

photography stuff. Yeah. I mean, I was still trying to figure out who I was really. Aren't you still, uh, yeah. yes. In there. Close it. Of course. Yeah. Especially that that's later in the story, so fair enough. Yeah. But, um, but then I definitely was, I was trail crew. I built trails up in the Rocky mountain national park. Oh. Um, right after we got married and then I just worked various jobs. Um, my wife and I were trying to get our bachelor's degree with university of the nation. So around the world. Okay. Travel and. Yeah, I don't need to get in the Republic of Georgia, I guess. I'll so I was traveling. We'll go back there. We'll go back to that. Yeah. So I was traveling back and forth to the Republic of Georgia, cuz my parents started a school over there, a Christian school in yeah, 1992. So,

Curt:

um, and so you became a photography buff. You, did you get some training or did you work for other photographers at all for a while? Ah, yeah.

Daniel:

Good question. Um, started out like just a passion. Somebody just encouraged me. I think it's funny in life. How, wherever somebody encourages you, you sometimes you end up like why didn't somebody encourage me to be a mechanical engineer or like a, I don't know, whatever else I could have been, but it just was photography and I loved it. Um, always dreamed about being a national geographic photographer when I was young. So, and um, so pursued that after high school. and then, yeah. And ended up getting a job at a group publishing, um, as their photographer. Oh, okay. So that's that kind of led right up to starting the business in 2003. Um, from 2000, I got that job at group and then worked three years there. And then I got so many offers for weddings that at one point I just said, I've gotta do this, you know? Fair

Curt:

enough. Very cool. So what is the business of being a wedding photographer? And did you, was it just you, I remember Rita was there for our wedding. Was it? Yeah. Her as a part-time whenever needed for events and you doing all the editing and stuff? We did it together.

Daniel:

We were just like team from day one. Okay. So she went in with the bride. I went in with the groom. Um, we shot 250 weddings over eight years and, and just kind of wow. Yeah. Started out. Um, You know, just to see if it would work. And then I think we booked 22 weddings that first year. Wow. Just from like a couple of bridal shows and it was digital, it was the beginning of the digital age. Mm-hmm and I had a head start because group publishing had trained me on, um, digital.

Curt:

At that time it was a big deal. Meanwhile, other established wedding photographers are like, eh, is this really gonna be the thing? I don't know if I should buy all this expensive equipment. Yeah.

Daniel:

And it was the third wave of the baby boomers. So there was a 20 to 25%. I can't remember the numbers increase in weddings starting from 2003 to 2007. Oh really? Yeah.

Curt:

Crazy. I remember. Well, I remember when, like, even when we got married, there was all these pregnant people that had just gotten married and the years to follow, we went to all kinds of weddings and then we had a dry spill. Yeah,

Daniel:

it's true. It's because it was an actual statistical like wave. Interesting. Yeah. Which is pretty

Curt:

incredible. well, nice to hit that.

Daniel:

It was great. Cuz I made tons of mistakes, you know, uh, in it's school of hard knocks. Yeah.

Curt:

You know? Yeah. Did you develop a team then? Or was it just you guys for quite a while

Daniel:

first or? Um, we started out, it, it went so fast. We were turning down. Oh man. 50 to a hundred weddings a year, depending on the year. Wow. And then, um, we tried to bring a team on. And, uh, to be honest, over the course of that, I read some great books, the ETH I read good to great. And, um, I realized a lot of things about business that never knew. And, um, I'm not a, I'm not as good of a manager as I wanted to be. Yeah. You know, Yeah. And so I tried to wear all the hats and we were successful. Um, but you know, um, looking back, it was just a tornado outta control. Like the, the business controlled me. So, you know,

Curt:

and never really did build a, what you would say was like a successful team that would just go execute a bunch of weddings without you having to be there all the time and

Daniel:

stuff wanted to do that. And we, we did have great employees. In fact, we ended up selling, um, the business well, in fact, giving it away for a dollar in the end to one of our employees. Um, and we did have a great. We had some other successful photographers that we kind of trained up and brought along. They were young photographers and, um, could have gone that way and, and really hit a log jam in 2008, just mentally, um, that I just didn't really wanna do it

Curt:

that much anymore. Yeah. Well I just, or had other pursuits, was that

Daniel:

more, I realized that I had jumped into wedding photography because that money was there. It wasn't necessarily for a passion. Mm. And, um, by that time, you know, I'd gotten Rita very involved and she was just as good of a shooter as I was. So, um, you know, but I, I mentally hit like a, you. Call it a midlife crisis. I was only like 37, but I still felt like a midlife crisis. I just started to question, why am I doing this? What am I, what am I doing? And why am I doing it? Because, um, you know, I loved it. It was really, really fun. Um, part of the problem was that our kids were being raised by nannies. So we started the business right when our two boys were young mm-hmm mm-hmm and, um, you know,

Curt:

felt like you were missing out. And the nanny had the good years.

Daniel:

Yeah. The kids knew the nannys better than they knew us. And I was like looking at my brother, kicking the ball around in the yard and throwing a football. And, and I was like, every year I was like, well, when the business gets more successful than I'm gonna go do that, you know? Yeah. And then I realized when my oldest boy turned 10, that I hadn't, that I hadn't done it. And I was like, when's that gonna happen?

You

Curt:

know, now you had a pretty strong following. Um, why did you, I mean, was it. Did you give the business away because you didn't think you could sell it or no. You just wanted to bless somebody that, um,

Daniel:

yeah. Good point. Yeah. When I, now I say, see back then, I never told people that I gave the business away. Fair. I just told people that I sold the business, which technically was true. I think it was a pride thing. I was just like, I don't want to tell people, cuz I, I had a F we had a following and I was like, this is, you know, you know, people count on me. There's lots of venues. There's lots of other photographers. We had a great group of, um, yeah. Allies in the business that we, you know, we really loved and, and put so much time and energy into and I didn't wanna, right.

Curt:

That's like venues and planners and things like that. Exactly. Right.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, You know, I felt bad about that. Plus it was like giving up my baby, you know? Yeah. Like I had dreamed it and I wanted it bad and I'm a super ambitious, you

Curt:

don't really love it that much anymore.

Daniel:

yeah. And so it got to that point where, um, yeah, to be honest, I just realized, you know, my wife and I had to make some really serious decisions. And, um, and how did she feel about all this? Good, good question. Darn it. You brought that question up. um, so yeah, so basically, you know, there's a couple of things I'm trying to figure out, you know, which part to start in. But, um, essentially I got to that place where I was realizing that it wasn't a passion. Um, I had, it was really exciting and super fun to just be like, Taking care of people's needs. I'm, I'm a two on the Ingram. So my that's the helper, that's the helper. So I'm most likely to be a barber or a, like a waiter you know? And so like, I just thrive on helping, you know, and I love that aspect of it, you know, that made me really happy. Um, but what I realized is that, you know, in business, you have to get outta bed in the morning and really, really, really love what you do, you know? Well, you don't have to, but

Curt:

yeah. You know, well, but you've always kind of been wired to wanna pursue your passions and interests, even when you were building trails at Rocky mountain. That was yeah, because you love to be outside and exactly. You're building paths and trails that people could enjoy our wilderness with. Right. Right. Um, I feel like a lot of what inform. you're what you're up to now is gonna be built better if we go back to young Daniel, probably. Yeah. Back to the beginning. Go back to Kansas. yeah, sure. Uh, is that where, because you were born in Kansas, born,

Daniel:

born in Northwest Kansas. Okay. Yeah. On a farm near Colby. Um, if you know what I've been

Curt:

to Colby. Yeah, yeah. Was there before for lunch or whatever when I was on my way to somewhere else. Yep. Yep. The

Daniel:

Oasis and the, the only Starbucks for miles. So yeah. So it, it was a life of community church, um, just like down home cooking. And were your parents farmers before farmers. Okay. And teachers. Okay. Yeah. So, so essentially, um, yeah, basically grew up with a very simple, um, laid back life, um, you know, watching the tornadoes roll through Northwest

Curt:

Kansas, you know? Yeah. Wheat farm all around, mostly over there. Yeah.

Daniel:

And dad had about 700 acres of wheat, dry land wheat mm-hmm so we were, um, we were really. Uh, in the 1980s, people probably know some pretty tough years in, in the farmers. Yep. Yeah,

Curt:

my dad started his farm kind of at the end of the eighties. So, oh, there you go. The toughest times had passed and he, well, he lost his first farm in the late seventies. And then, oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. He bought a farm on contract and oh, wow. You know, couldn't make it work and give it back. Yeah. Kind of thing. And then yep. Yeah. Found somebody to rent him some land and loan him enough money to put a crop in a couple years, five years later.

Daniel:

No way. I didn't realize that. Yeah. That's yeah. So you understand. Yeah. So dad hit three bad years in a row and two tractors were totaled within two weeks of each other. Wow. Yeah. After he had built a school, so mom and dad were both teachers and full-time farming and oh, and

Curt:

built a, like a private school, private school charter school almost or religious school. It was a

Daniel:

Christian school. Yeah. Okay. For the local community. Yeah. And, and, um, so he, they were passionate about that, but they did that right before interest rates were up at 18%. And

Curt:

so he, the farm was in pretty good shape. It was able to spin off a little cash to help build this school and stuff. And then, and then it didn't tank upon losses

Daniel:

and upon losses and, and then nobody could pay tuition for right. Three years in a row. And so dad and mom were just, they were just, oh,

Curt:

had the loan. How old were you

Daniel:

at this? I was 13, 12, and then 13 when I moved

Curt:

here. Yep. And do you have siblings too? Four

Daniel:

boys? Yeah. In the five boys in the family? Four brothers, I should say.

Curt:

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So and where do you lie on that? I'm in the middle,

Daniel:

right? The middle. So the peacemaker?

Curt:

Yeah. Right. Fair enough. And so then you moved here. Yeah.

Daniel:

So then we moved here. We just were like, Beverly hillbillies, dad got

Curt:

the wheat truck and lost the farm and put everything that we could carry in the truck in the

Daniel:

car. Yeah. Well, and actually what dad did is he tried to keep the farm, so we didn't actually sell it till 1989. So we were moving, uh, he would bring us, you know, free labor out to drive tractors, um, all summer long. And then he bought a business called Hillary mills popped wheat, and they made salad toppers. Oh, for pizza hu and king supers. Yeah. On the front range. Yep. And then, um, he would, you know, he cut out the middle man by growing the wheat himself sure. And cleaning it and then, and then popping it and producing it. Mm-hmm And so he did that for five years and then, yeah. So, um, yeah, so we moved out here when I was 13, um, met my wife when I was 13. Um, she didn't like me much in school. I was quiet. She was really popular. Right. And yeah. And so then, you know, just grew up. That quiet farm life. And then my parents ended up going over to start a Christian school in the Republic of Georgia in 1992. Okay. When the iron curtain fell. Oh,

Curt:

okay. And, and why

Daniel:

there? Um, it was just by chance to be honest. Um, okay.

Curt:

They were passionate obviously about teaching and faith matters and things like that.

Daniel:

Exactly. Yeah.

Curt:

Yeah. They were, and I guess the iron curtain falls that smells like an opportunity.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think my mom actually had a dream, um, something about the former Soviet union. She didn't really know where. Yeah. And so, um, dad was like, Hmm, okay. But I'm not really on board. We've got this business and we gotta take care of our kids, but he kind of just got. I'm not sure exactly the church that we were in just kind of backed him. And they were like, we'll help you if you, if you go do this. So dad got over there, um, went on a trip to the Ukraine actually, but on the way to the Ukraine, he stopped off in the Republic of Georgia with the director of this school system, this Christian school system that they worked with and the, the vice minister of education just at the table just said, Hey, you know, um, we'll do this school if you started. And he was pointing at my dad and my dad knew that he was supposed to do it. Somehow, you know? Yeah.

Curt:

And would you say like, is that holy spirit kind of things amongst the people around there? Or like, how do you describe that? Well, he definitely he, or does he just exude confidence in

Daniel:

nation or? Well, he does that some, yeah, he's a Kansas farmer. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of guy, you know? Um, but at the same time he also had a, he had a dream, he was actually in the hotel, there was a coup that was happening in the Republic of Georgia at the time he was there. Wow. And so he didn't sleep all night very well, but he was having these dreams during the night and then the room next to him, they were planning the coup that was Goa ho and Chevron Nazis showdown in 1991, basically. And, and so shortly after he left, I think it was within, within months after he left the hotel that he was in, that it was bombed out. Wow. Completely bombed out. So, um, but in the meantime, Both mom and dad were very confident that they were, God had led them to the Republic of Georgia, which was crazy right. Because they were just farmers. Right. You know?

Curt:

Um, but, and they had just gotten out here and bought the pop wheat business and stuff like that. Exactly. A few years, a couple years before. Right. So it

Daniel:

was a huge shift and I just had graduated from high school. So then I went off, um, I did what it's with YWAM. It's called, uh, DTS discipleship training school. Yeah. And then, um, came back and nobody was home, you know, they're like, oh, we're in Georgia. You know, so, and, and my good friends, my, some of my best friends were living in our house cuz they had rented our place and mom and dad were like, yeah, come on over, come over and hang with us.

Curt:

you can watch Daniel when he gets home.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so. And yeah, so funny enough, and my wife was also really good friends with my mom at the time. Um, and, and

Curt:

you guys had started

Daniel:

dating? No, no, we hadn't because when I turned 19, I asked her out, I was a real shy kid. Almost. Didn't talk to be honest. I, wow. It's funny. Now when you look at me, cuz I think I'm maybe extroverted, but um, I asked her out and she wrote me a seven page letter saying that she didn't want to date me later. She told me that she was worried that I was her destiny, but she wasn't ready. Right. So so, um, yeah, so that, that's a, that was a long process.

Curt:

Seems like she must have thought you a little thought about you occasionally, if she wrote you a seven page letter, that's

Daniel:

what I'm thinking. Like, you know, if you get a seven page letter, that's like, you know, you're a really great guy, but I really don't want to date you, but you're a really great guy, you know, then like

Curt:

you're like the way the hair shines off of your head of the sunlight. I think about it all the

Daniel:

time. I think she just didn't wanna let me down cuz I was like geeky and, and. And, you know, skinny and small and like, yeah. And so

Curt:

did you, you spent some time over there yeah. In Georgia eventually as well.

Daniel:

Yeah. So I spent three years over there. Um, yeah. Got over there and you know, basically was teaching little kids, like right after

Curt:

high school. Right, right. Outta high school. Yeah. Okay. After Rita turns you down, you're like, well, I'm outta here.

Daniel:

Yeah. That's basically, yeah. I wanted an adventure, you know, cuz why not? You know? Yeah. Um, and yeah, teaching little kids, English. And so the great thing about teaching little kids is that they, they they're such good language teachers. So for some reason I picked up the language really quick, you know? Um, and I think it was cuz those little kids really helped me. They just didn't no inhibitions. Yeah. They're just like you said that wrong. Yeah. and, and then I just, I began to speak. Street language really, really fast, and then came back

Curt:

like no intentional training. It just kind of happened. No, by teaching them English. You pretty much

Daniel:

learned it. Yeah. I did have three months of intentional training, but that was it. The guy that, the guy that was teaching us ended up immigrating, cuz so many people were leaving Georgia. It was terrible times in Georgia.

Curt:

And tell me a little bit, tell all of our listeners a little bit about the history of Georgia, cuz yeah, it was part of the Soviet block, but it's yeah, like kind of a Christian nation yeah. Of sorts that kind of at least resisted some of the yeah. You know, atheism, if you will, of the, of the communist block. Definitely did.

Daniel:

It's really hard to know where to start cuz man, their history is old. I mean you could start all the way back to 2,600 years ago. Um, when, you know, Babylonian empire, Concord, Israel mm-hmm and some Jews came over, they've got document. Oh really? History of that. Okay. Um, yeah, basically,

Curt:

uh, was that. Like the foundational people, groups of the

Daniel:

Georgians, it was very connected. It's interesting. Some people think, and this is where I don't, I'm a little bit outta my league, but there are, there are people who believe that some of the lost tribes came up there. Yeah. Those kind of things. But there's definitely evidence that the Babylonian and some parts of the tribes of Juda came up, the Babylonian empire. Yeah. They've got documented proof of that. That's that's 2,600 years

Curt:

old. And then the rest kind of more Slavic people from there. Are they Persians? Are they not

Daniel:

Slavic? Not Persians. Um, very distinct, um, kind of. Okay, so I'll start with that. That there are. Oh, who, what are they? Greek on one side. Oh, Uhhuh. So Jason and the Argonauts, the old, old story, uh, legend from the Greek, from Greek history, basically, um, Georgia was, was where the golden fleece was. Mm. And, and so that, you know, we're talking thousand BC, I don't know when that story came out, but yeah. And then later on, I mean, okay. So bring it all the way back to caucus mountains. Caucus mountains is the birthplace of the Caucasian people. Oh, so, um, really? Yeah. Okay. So that's, I mean, really most of Europe owes its history to that region. Really?

Curt:

Yeah. I thought of the whites just kind of came from Europe and developed there. No,

Daniel:

and that's what most of us think. But yeah, if you, you know, even in Europe, I don't need to call 'em whiteys no, I know what you mean, but yeah. Well, yeah. That's and Georgia. Yeah.

Curt:

So, so which is basically like there's Georgia and I'm, I'm looking at the map now as are badge on and Armenia and then it's Turkey. Yeah. And that's why I thought maybe Persians is cuz Turkey's exactly got a lot of Persians as well. They do. Right.

Daniel:

Well and Georgia and, and Persian have a lot of there's there's a lot of words that are similar borrowed words. Mm-hmm, the Persians also conquer Georgia in the 17 hundreds and, um, took a lot of their women as wives because they thought they were very beautiful. Mm. And so there's a lot of inter fair enough. Inter inter

Curt:

marrying the, and like Cyrus of Persia I remember is who kind of let the Jews free again later. Right? Exactly. Yeah. That's correct. Yeah. And you can go to Georgia.

Daniel:

Yeah. Well, good question. I don't know, because some of them, I think did go to Georgia because there was a strong colony there already. Right. But,

Curt:

well, I guess obviously many of 'em came back to Israel.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. But, but, but just, I mean, yeah, sorry. I've no, it's really fun for me just to sum it all up. Um, you know, the, they were. A tribe of people. Oh, I'll say this too. Iberians so half of it was like Greek

Curt:

colony kind of people. Yeah. Cause Iberian peninsula is over there on the Greek clear Spain. Oh way over there.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. So there's actually, Iberians in, in Spain. There's Iberians in Georgia and then there were Iberians all the way up. Okay. I could get, I could be getting this wrong, but I believe up in Europe. Yeah. Even up by England and stuff. Isn't that

Curt:

fascinating. That's how tribal people were back then. It was like, yeah, very much. if you're in my tribe, then cool. If you're not in my tribe, then you're dead. You better watch out. Yeah. if I can make it's actually still

Daniel:

that way. If you go up in the mountains of Georgia, it's very, very much that way. So I know that's for later in the story. No, whatever. No, but it, what happened is there was a, uh, basically there was a slave girl, a 14 year old slave girl in the third century, 333 ad who was running for her life. Her, her masters were killed in Armenia, um, martyred for their faith. Apparently, according to legend, she runs to Georgia. Um, the queen is dying. This is, this is all, you know, very historical legend, but queen is dying on her deathbed and the, this 14 year old girl gets an audience with her and prays for her. And she's fine. She's perfect. And so the queen becomes, Hey, we're Christians now. exactly. Well, that's not exactly how it went down because the, um, the king was really mad. Ah, because they,

Curt:

he wanted a younger model.

Daniel:

Yeah. well, they were animist. Um, so, you know, just kind of like the Kurdish and a lot of the other peoples around even still, still worship to this day. And so he, which I don't, I

Curt:

don't want animus

Daniel:

means, you know, I, I can't speak too well on it because I'm not really. Kind of Peggy pagan, like, but yeah. Basically worship worship of the world fire. Um, the, yeah, basically the elements. Yeah. Like got when got, is to fire. One got, is the water,

Curt:

the earths a little bit Viking, like,

Daniel:

oh, very much Viking. Like, don't get me started on that. I mean, yeah. We go

Curt:

three hours. Yeah. We don't have that kind of

Daniel:

time, but anyway, um, so he got the king gets upset and this could be years between when the queen became Christian. I don't even know. Right. King goes on a hunting trip with a bunch of his cohort. Right. And apparently according to legend, he gets struck by blindness as well as all the men with him. Hmm. And for four days they can't find water. They're just lost wandering in the woods and he prays to all of his gods. And finally on. After four days, he's basically gonna die. It's super delirious. Yeah. Yeah. And he, he finally prays to the God of St of Nino who prayed for his wife. Sure. And his eyes are opened and all of his men and they find their way. Hmm. And then they become Christian and, and they, you know, he makes a big apology

Curt:

to his wife. I think so. Yeah.

Daniel:

Right. Sorry, baby. Yeah. And this is, you can read all about this on the internet. It's very well known history. And so then he becomes, I mean, you gotta realize these guys, like they were giants, they had nine foot Kings, so yeah, that's crazy too.

Curt:

Yeah. And. Yeah, like that's documented, right? Oh yeah. These were big. These were makes the Danish look. Yeah. Shrimpy. Yeah, that's

Daniel:

right. They, and it is documented. Yeah. Um, yeah, long story there, but, um, essentially then they were warrior people. And so by, you know, they made the rest of the country, they United the tribes, but many times in probably, you know, they conquered some of the other tribes sure. And said, you're gonna be Christian now. But anyway, I mean, you know, life is 1,700 years ago is probably a

Curt:

lot different. Yeah. But so like fast forward me through to, to modern day, I'm looking at this map. Yeah. And is it true that like between Ukraine and Georgia, they basically have, uh, Russia blocked off of the black sea? Yeah. That's correct. Russia

Daniel:

has access to the black sea and I don't know how much land that is, but maybe 200 miles. Yeah. Not a lot. Not a lot. Yeah. So Ukraine and Georgia are very tied. To, you know, um, just in so many ways, politically they have so many friends, uh, people are related. Um, well look, I,

Curt:

the Caucasians probably came out of there and Ukraine quite heavily. Absolutely. It's

Daniel:

yeah. Oh yeah. So it's, it's all intermixed for sure. So, you know, anyway, the history, I just go off on the history, but. Yeah.

Curt:

So you head over to Georgia, right? I learned the language you're teaching the kids. You're having some fun, like, were you happy about this decision?

Daniel:

Yeah, I mean, I was just pretty happy go lucky, like what you do when your 19 feels pretty epic, no matter where you are, you know, and, and, but at the time Georgia was collapsing. Like there were bread lines. I saw people bringing wheelbarrows full of Russian rubles to buy a wheelbarrow full of bread. So the, the amount of money that you could buy a car in the beginning of 1992 in Georgia, became the amount of money at the end of 1992, that would buy a quarter of a tire of a car. Wow. So

Curt:

like makes Venezuela inflation look modest.

Daniel:

Oh, it was insane. And it was across, uh, Russia altogether or the former us Sr. That was happening everywhere. Yeah. Um, but the infrastructure was completely falling apart. Um, but I, but I just loved. The Georgian people and their hospitality and the food and the mountains. I mean, it's this beautiful country. Yeah. Unbelievable country. And, um, so I just fell in love with the people and the place and like got to hang out with little kids and they were really nice and happy and and, uh, you know, felt like a, I got held up. We got held up at gunpoint a couple of times. Oh, wow. Held up at knife point a

Curt:

couple of times. And how was the school faring? The school

Daniel:

was doing so well. It was the first American school in the country. Wow. And so, you know, the parliament members' kids were in there. Right. The mafia leaders' kids were in the school and they were all working together at that time. Like interesting. Yeah. So I mean, it, it was just assimilation into a completely different way of thinking and it. A lot like that over there, you know? Um, like I, like I was saying,

Curt:

it's Eastern Orthodox generally over there and now, but now this is just like a mainstream Christian school

Daniel:

or it was, yeah. And so we actually had my dad, mom and dad had the approval of the patriarch of the Orthodox Georgian, Orthodox church. Um, you know, shook his hand a couple of times. Um, he signed letters saying we like this school mm-hmm and they really just decided to, to just not, we weren't trying to convert Georgians to Protestantism, you know? Right. We were just talking about Jesus and how things get better, you know? Yeah. And, and like, yeah. And were there like

Curt:

a lot of atheists as well as this historic Georgians or no? Like why was, what was the need for

Daniel:

a, a Christian school? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because after 70 years of communism, um, You know, the Georgian people were super excited about their Christian faith. They had been, you have to think of it from an opposite perspective. They had been 15%. Okay. Now I'm gonna get my Nu my numbers wrong. So I apologize if ahead of time, for those who know better than me, 10, let's say 10 to 15% of the population of Georgia was shipped off to the Gul log. Oh wow. Stalin was half Georgian. Oh, he hated Georgia. Um, and, and so he, he wanted to literally his quote was that I'm going to break the wings of the Georgian people. Wow. They're very, um, and

Curt:

did they like take out the. Like the men that were the leaders of the villages completely and things like that was anybody cared to voice an opinion of what we should do now, or

Daniel:

whatever. Yeah. Intellectuals, anybody who would not comply. And they tried to get rid of the language. Russia tried Georgians and Russians are not super copacetic with each other. Yeah. For the most part, I mean, Georgia had currently has a pro Russian government. Mm. Um, but that, that's not that doesn't make a lot of the people happy, you know? Interesting. yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, so yeah. You know, basically, um, You got this Kansas farm kid who got assimilated into this crazy other world system. Yeah. You know, where you were constantly watching your back because their system was not about the police it's about who you knew was your protection, which was connected to the KGB, which was connected to the mafia. And you know, like, um, yeah. It wasn't

Curt:

a society of law and order. No, like we mostly have here, no,

Daniel:

to give an example at that time, if you had something stolen, then you would go to the police and you would pay double what your item was worth. It was stolen so that the police could pay the person that stole it and they were all into, they would keep the spread. Yeah. That's how things work if you want your thing back. Yeah. so, yeah. anyway. That's how, that's just how things work. Fascinating. Yeah. And, um, but anyway, it was quite an education for a 19 year old farm kid. Yeah.

Curt:

You know, so what brought you back

Daniel:

then? You mean to Colorado? Yeah. Or

Curt:

wherever was next? I honestly, I

Daniel:

was scared. Um, we, so it's a very long story short, my Georgian friend, who was teaching me Georgian, I was just hanging with him all the time. And his other is kind of a little, uh, yeah, kind of the, their brothers, we call each other brothers. Okay. Um, Mount Katzee is, is the word we, we use over there, which means my, uh, brother, man is basically, and then we would my brother from another mother. Yeah. Kind of like that. We would just hang out all the time and they were like my protection, you know? Hmm. But we started, I loved music. So we, we started a, a rap band strangely enough. Interesting. And, and, um, and were you

Curt:

guitar

Daniel:

drums? So I played holes. I played guitar and I, and I wrote music. Uh, it wasn't that good, but it, you know, It didn't really matter, I guess. Right.

Curt:

there wasn't a lot of competition in that. No, there wasn't. Yeah. Genre in Georgia. No,

Daniel:

not at that time. So we just, we loved music. We recorded in one of the top end studios there, which just was a lot of fun, got to know a ton of the musicians, which got us on a radio show, which ended up getting us a TV show. Why? Yeah. And then we were nominated for like the Georgian Oscars. What, what they would, we can't

Curt:

make that long story this short. Can we terrible? So what's the band's name? Uh, we,

Daniel:

I, well, the, the TV show. Yeah. The TV show ended up being DJ TV, which was okay. Which was, which meant devoted to Jesus television. Oh, wow. Um, and yeah, so, um, and I even brought a band over from, um, from here and we toured, which was crazy. That was that like 1995. How did this shy kid that was

Curt:

year old? That's Kansas see,

Daniel:

like do that. That's the thing, like I think my, my wife. You know, finally she's like, oh, you know, he has a voice. I think it was language learning. Hmm. I think realizing that I could speak another language. Yeah. It just woke me up into this whole new

Curt:

world, you know? Hey. Yeah. I'm not such a, yeah. For me, that was a growing my hair long during my late college years. And all of a sudden the girls thought I was cute. I was like, yeah. Okay. Way. I guess I'm cute. Well,

Daniel:

that's exactly. And I mean, you, you just, you know, when you're hanging with the cows, you just don't have a whole lot of reason to talk. So I didn't know. Didn't know that I knew how you know. Yeah. So

Curt:

well, but you were around Fort Collins and were around Colby. I mean, you had people around you all the time, but I did, but until we believe that we've got something to say. Yeah. Um, and I imagine potentially there was some. Overshadowing from yeah, your father and even all your four brothers and some of them were very yeah. You know, exuberant and whatever. Probably more so, so yeah. Yeah. I

Daniel:

think so. Yeah. Easy to be in the shadows. Yeah, I probably,

Curt:

yeah, for sure. And I, but still wild that yeah. Like they have this American kid and make him a star basically.

Daniel:

Right. It was, it was very bizarre and you know, it was kind of another, you know, just, I was just riding the train, you know, just like, Hey, what what's next? This looks like fun, you know? Yeah. And, um, yeah. So then that all happened really quickly. Right? Well then at the end of it, I remember one night walking through the streets of Georgia and like hearing our TV show, cuz it all came on at the same time. Yeah. And like I was hearing myself and this other Georgian guy speaking in Georgian, you know, and it was coming from everywhere and I was just like, whoa. And then after that, like I couldn't walk through the streets and everybody knew who I was really. Yeah. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. Like, um, yeah, it was bizarre. And, and, but the problem with that is at that time, um, it was Chev, Nazi was the president at that time and he, um, long story short, there was a lot of mafia. You're a

Curt:

very attractive kidnapping uh, person, right. Or, yeah.

Daniel:

Or just like, you know, getting a, you know, asked to parties, getting connected to like. I remember riding through the streets with this guy, with bullet holes in his Mercedes-Benz front window at like 90 miles an hour and watching all the cars and people just leave the streets and then come back after they be, you know, there's this certain hierarchy in the culture, right? Yeah. He was a made man or whatever. Yeah. Well, this guy told me how he killed 18 people, you know, just in detail and part of the mafia, part of the, and I didn't know all the connections, but it got scary. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm bringing this, this band from America around and like we're getting invited to these mafia parties and it was all the mafia leaders, kids that started all the nightclubs and we were playing right nightclubs, but we were just delving into things that we had no idea. Interesting. Yeah.

Curt:

Now are all these mafia members also professing. George and Orthodox Christians

Daniel:

as well. Yeah. So this is the weird thing. So like, literally I remember in our neighborhood watching one guy steal the battery outta my dad's car, and then three hours later, I'm having a conversation and I know what happened. He doesn't know that. I know, but I'm, I'm having a conversation with him and he's like, yeah. So tell me about Jesus. You know, I'm like what right. You know, because there, there was an excitement they had been told, you know, communism, everything, um, the, the, all the insides of the churches were whitewashed, you know?

Curt:

Um, oh, wow. All that old iconographies yes. Stuff. So it's really important to that. Eastern Orthodox. Yeah.

Daniel:

That's right. And they tried to really take their faith from them, which made it even more popular. Mm-hmm you know, and so they came off of that. Now. Things are very different in Georgia now. There's, um, there's a lot of corruption in the Orthodox church. It's very tied to the mafia. Mm. Um, You know, the, yeah. Those

Curt:

power concentrations, they just kind of attract the bad elements sometimes.

Daniel:

Yeah, they do. And, and so the young people are really turning more towards, you know, what they say now, as I'm a man of the world, I'm a woman of the world, which is kind of a pseudo atheism. Interesting. Which, you know, um, but Georgian history reads like the old Testament. Like when you see the fact that they're surrounded by Muslim countries. Yeah. Um, even the Russian side has Dastan, chiia, Acaia all of these tribes that are Muslim mm-hmm and they've all wanted to kill the Georgians and the Armenians, but for some reason they're still there. Right. You know, so you just kind of go, okay. You know, there's something deep going on there.

Curt:

Wait and, well, it's kind of. As far as the Christian faith spread eastwardly mm-hmm right. There was kind of a, you know, Greece was the center of it for a while there virtually before it was

Daniel:

Italy. True. Yeah. Well like, um, legend has it that Andrew and Bartholome the disciples started the first church in Georgia and 70 to 80 ad. Wow. But it was in a Greek city and the black sea. So it wasn't Georgian Georgian. It was to the Greek people. Yeah. Yeah. But to even see like the St Andrew's flag all the way through Europe, and I've kind of wondered how that happened, like yeah. St. Andrews known, you know, basically sure. I thought he was Scottish

Curt:

or something. Exactly. Cause that's where St. Andrews golf course. See that's

Daniel:

that's exactly. That's but it's that I, I think the symbol symbolism followed the migration of the peoples. Yeah. I that's my belief. Well,

Curt:

and from the old Testament, like there's an, an Ethiopian mention in there and, you know, for. Generations afterwards, they called kind of black people from Africa Ethiopians, even though Ethiopian is a very, exactly concentrated spot, but there was a tribe of Christians that were here to before known to the church to what was then the. I guess early burgeoning Western world mm-hmm especially post middle ages and that kind of thing. Yeah. Yep.

Daniel:

Exactly. Interesting. It's so much history that I had no clue about as a kid, you know, I didn't even know that Georgie existed until my parents moved there. Yeah. You know, so anyway, all that said, you know, it was a very influential time. Um, yeah. And fascinating. Yeah. For some reason I learned the language. I'm not really proficient, but I can speak street language so I can get around really well. And. You know, it just affects you. But I left, um, right when our TV show was getting really popular, um, kind of left my friend in the lurch. I was scared. Um, came back, asked my wife to marry me. And she said, yes, finally, she tore you

Curt:

down for going out on a date. Yeah. But now you're a, this famous TV star from Georgia, so, well, yeah, exactly.

Daniel:

That's, true. Not quite

Curt:

that simple, but yeah.

Daniel:

There's yep. A lot of details

Curt:

in between. Well, probably more in between your ears had changed than in between hers.

Daniel:

Well, it's true. Like I had grown up. Yeah, I think I was probably a slow maturing guy, you know, but I think I'd grown

Curt:

up a lot. Plus don't look at me from that picture there I was 28. Exactly.

Daniel:

yeah. I remember you couldn't even grow a beard. Oh, you can grow one now. yeah, yeah. That's cuz I'm 48. So that's me too. I didn't even get, I didn't even grow my beard full until like 27, 28,

you

Curt:

know? No that's same here. I couldn't grow GT or nothing. Really. See a lot of guys takes a while, you know? Yeah. But hopefully we'll live longer too. Uh that's right? Yeah. Hopefully so you come back. Yep. Um, we'll hear the love story or let's hear the love story now. Like was it just like about a Bing bought a boom. Hey baby. I'm back. And I got

Daniel:

this. Uh, no, no. I mean I came back, um, you know, she. It's funny. I'm a guy that likes to, to take risks. And my wife is just a little bit slower to change than me. And so I, you know, it just, it took her a while. So, um, we came back, we broke up again. Then all my friends said, you're crazy. If you go back to her, she comes back to me finally, like, Hey, maybe I should date you. And I was like, I'll never marry you. And then after a while, like I'm just thinking about it. It is pretty crazy, honestly, like my friends are like, you're stupid, you know, don't

Curt:

do this. That's almost like, there's like this magnetic attraction. Yeah. That you can't really stop it from coming together eventually, unless you like, that's kind good ground yourself in the ocean or something

Daniel:

pretty, pretty much. Yeah. There was kind of that. And I, and I just, you know, after three weeks of thinking on it, I came back and I was like, all right. So look, maybe we can date kind of casually, you know, by then it was more of a, it was a different foundation for love. It was more of a forgiveness.

Curt:

And what was she doing in the meantime

Daniel:

here? That's a good question. So she traveled, she was a fine art major, um, same university that's international university mm-hmm So she had traveled to Hawaii. Um, she, you know, just back and forth between Fort Collins and Hawaii and different schools around the world and yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. So that's, she was building her life, you know? Um, and yeah, it, it, we had changed sure. By age 22, 23, we had changed. So then we ended up going doing some international schools together in Switzerland, in Hawaii, after we got married, pre-kids kind of pre kids. Yeah, exactly. Just enjoying travel and life and, and

Curt:

then we're kind of starting to catch up back to those days. Yeah. We're finally before verge.

Daniel:

Really? Exactly. Sorry. It took so

Curt:

long. No, that's okay. That's what we do it here. Yeah. and so, um, like talk to me about mm-hmm the, the lasting impacts of that time in Georgia, you know, aside from it, just making you more confident, kind of in the language skills and stuff, but yeah. Different perspectives on the world. I have to assume. And did you get around Europe at all while you were over there? Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah. My brother was living in Amsterdam. We ended up traveling. I had friends in Norway, in Sweden at the time. So we, we took a, I don't know, my parents were crazy. They let us hop a train in Moscow in 1992 through St. Petersburg to Helsinki, to Stockholm. And then over to Norway, don't lose your ticket. Yeah, I know. Seriously. And we didn't have. Almost any cash. So it was nuts. Um, I remember we were on the, we were on a ferry between Stockholm and he, or Helsinki and Stockholm, and everybody was drunk on the boat and including, I think the captain and they were all singing. We all live in a yellow submarine together. It was the most wild experience. And it was with assorted accents. Yeah. And it was new year's Eve. That's why everybody was drunk. Um, but that one week later was when that Swedish ferryboat went down, mm-hmm between Estonia and Sweden and 800 people, people died, people died. And I honestly think they were just super lax, probably in there. The waves were huge. Right. They all kind of half sick and people were throwing up over the side. I mean, yeah. So we saw Europe, we saw, you know, we went through, I think I went through Istanbul eight times and wow. Took a bus from Istanbul to Georgia with just like a two day trip.

Curt:

Well, that's what I was just thinking when I was looking at the map earlier, is that, you know, what was constant and Opal. Yeah. Now Istanbul was really the global. Trading center for, for quite a

Daniel:

while. Oh yeah. And Georgia too, you know, right on the silk road. Um, mm-hmm, you know, so much happened there, but yeah, just to answer your question, uh, it did change things. I, I think it being overseas, seeing a different perspective, you know, that can't help, but change you for the rest of your life, you know? Um, yeah. A lot when I'm jumping way forward to when we, um, decided to give the business away for a dollar mm-hmm you know, um, let's go back there. Yeah, it was, yeah. Sorry to jump ahead, but no, it was good. Um, yeah, my, I had kind of, excuse me, I'd kinda left Georgia thinking that, um, I was gonna do a lot of good in that country. Felt like when I left that I didn't do a heck of a lot of good, you know, my friends were still, you know, in poverty and, and I, and I, you. Well, I even left one of my best friends in the lurch, you know? Right. And, and, um, and came back just really wondering what the heck is life all about, you know, is God even real, you know, sometimes, you know, missionary, you see missionary life and it's like you, yeah. If you grow up in Christian circles, that's like the high point, but then you get in the real world and you realize most of missionaries don't even really know what they're doing out there, or if they're doing any good mm-hmm and yeah, it takes

Curt:

years to see any fruit sometimes.

Daniel:

Yeah. And so it was really a crisis of faith for me. I just came back, was asking, I didn't sell anybody, but I was really asking, is God

Curt:

real, not even Rita, or was she in the same kind of place?

Daniel:

Not she, you know, not even Rita to, to a large degree. I don't know. She really was never in the same place. She, she was kind of just cruising along and I started. you know, what it was, I think was that I, I, after a couple of guns were point at my head and stuff, I began to realize I wasn't invincible as a young kid. And that, like, that was 35 before I realized that. Yeah, exactly. It took me a long time too. And, and so then, yeah, basically began to just think a lot about life and what, what I want to be about. And the business was really a result of circumstances and I kind of felt like it was just spinning. Out of control. Like I love the adventure. You hadn't really

Curt:

had your pointer set on anything. Right. And finally here, well, at least I can build this photography business. That's exactly right. And serve people in this fashion and make some resources because my family, my kids need

Daniel:

them. Yeah. And it was all about success, which I think in American culture, you know, there's so much about just making it, you know, and, and I, and you kind of felt like

Curt:

you hadn't succeeded in Georgia that first time to you. Yeah.

Daniel:

And it kind of, I, I had the chance, but I walked away. I could see that I was in over my head. Yeah. Like I was getting mixed up, you know, was being offered prostitutes. Um, I was, I had didn't have the, the fortitude to know what the heck, who I was. I was, am I a Kansas farm kid? Am my. You know, crazy mafia guy

Curt:

tedious who

Daniel:

Grammy winner. And I was like, this is gonna be bad if I don't figure this out. So I came home, I went to the secure thing, you know, asked my wife to marry me. She, she eventually did. And then, you know, spent the next 10 years building a business, building a house, living the American dream, kind of go in the opposite direction and then got to the end of that. And I was just like, what's this all about, you know, mm-hmm, I I've climbed this ladder. I'm looking down from the ladder and it's not that great. Mm-hmm you know, and who am I? You know? And it, it, it just kind of started, uh, I realized that a lot of at that point, I think it was kind of like a midlife crisis. Um, a lot of business people get to that point in life where they they're successful, but they don't really know. Um, what's the word? Um, You know, they've got success. The point is, well, yeah, they've got success in their hands. Like as far as our culture goes, living the American dream, you know, mm-hmm and, but they, they don't necessarily feel completely

Curt:

fulfilled. Yeah. Well like Rogan jokes about that is like, you know, I've been to super poor countries and like they're smiling and they're happy. Like 70% of the people are happy. So that's it. And then I know a bunch of billionaires. Yeah. And two thirds of those fucks are miserable.

Daniel:

Exactly. And that's what I saw in Georgia. I saw that those people were happy and I'm like, what the heck? Why? You know? Yeah. It's not a, and, and I, my little castle that I built up, which literally was like this great, beautiful house on 35 acres. Yeah. Overlooking Fort Collins. Um, you know, it was just kind of. It was just my little, my little castle to protect me from, um, from, you know, a lot of the, the elements of the world that are bound to come, you know? Yeah. And you can do that in America, you know, but you can't do it as well in some of these other countries.

Curt:

Well, and you can't make an impact really from

Daniel:

behind the castle walls. No, you can't. Exactly. And so then, yeah, it was a long process. Um, recession hit 2008 kind of simultaneously with giving our business away for a dollar. Mm. And then, um, decided to get into video production. Just, it seemed like the most logical step I had most of the skills already. Mm-hmm um, got a job offer over at Walker manufacturing and they let me train, um, myself and start video and photography simultaneously then got hired on, um, eventually after the recession, I actually went a year and four months without a job. Wow. First time in my life, because I. Before that before the recession hit, I could walk in anywhere and just with a handshake, get a job. I never felt like I was in a bad spot, but the recession hit and it was scary.

Curt:

Wow. Yeah. And did Rita not have a job during that time

Daniel:

either? Or she also didn't. We were freelancing photography. Wow. It was rough,

Curt:

like a little hustle here and there,

Daniel:

but she thought we were gonna live under a bridge, you know? Right. And then I ended up getting three job offers simultaneously, cuz I was, I was applying three times a week. Yeah. But I just wasn't getting anything. Yeah. And so we ended up moving to Kentucky. I worked for a Christian film company there. Um, that kind of blew up after a year and a half. That that business is gone now. Um, for the most part it's I guess a piece of it still alive and then came back to Denver, worked doing, um, a friend of mine. Uh, he, yeah, we

Curt:

hadn't been in touch for quite a few years since, until recently.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly. We've it's been fun getting back in touch yeah. Um, uh, we need to do it more, but. anyway. So then, then a friend of mine kind of, he got me involved in super bowl. We, we were filming we're one of the only Christian organizations that was filming faith stories prior to the super bowl. Oh, interesting. So we did that for a while and then, um, yeah. Um, so I kind of bounced all over the place while I was trying to figure out who I was. Yeah.

Curt:

You know, were you living in Fort Collins much of that time or no. You moved to Kentucky, you said,

Daniel:

and then moved to Kentucky, moved to Denver, then moved back to Fort Collins, got back on at group publishing as a video producer for their organization. Um, you know, nine to five, just never has been my thing. I've always wanted to do entrepreneurial kind of stuff. Yeah. And so after two years took an offer to go to New Zealand and work, um, starting a, a Christian men's magazine. And then, um, and then, uh, we were gonna start a Christian media agency over there and didn't end up working out. They, um, It's a long story that I won't go into right now. But, um, sometimes you learn

Curt:

things from failure as well. Was this, you and Rita were gonna start a media company in

Daniel:

New Zealand. I was, we were doing it with a guy who invited us over, sorry. Visa were tied to that thought we would immigrate to New Zealand. My brother had done that and we really fell in love with yeah. New

Curt:

Zealand, everywhere visits, New Zealand. Yeah. Must have moved there. Kind of Costa Rica too, but they're tight on it

Daniel:

too. True. Yeah. It's just kind of like living in a garden, you know? Right. And you walk back in, you feel like you walk back in time a little bit. It's very nice, but yeah. Um, anyway then, then ended up coming back here. Um, we weren't kicked out, but we left after our visas ran out in 2019, right before COVID. Um, I started, uh, freelancing here locally and then, um, crazy enough. I started, I, I decided to start looking for a job doing, uh, I ended up scooping dog poop for a year and now which. Which was crazy, but it sure did pay the bills. Yeah. And, um, it gave me time to think. Yeah. You know, because you were

Curt:

back in a place of okay. Chapter over in New Zealand. Exactly. Now what?

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. And how

Curt:

old are your kids at this point

Daniel:

in time? Yeah. So at that point they were, let's see, my oldest was 18. Okay. And then second boy was 17, 16, and then my daughter was like 13, so, okay. And so, you know, we we're like, okay, we're here. Um, we're back in Colorado, we had some familiarity. This is where we're gonna be. Cuz we need some solid stuff for our kids. And, and then I kind of just, um, really, really thought about who, who I am. Yeah. What, where, where am I gifted and, and all these things and. A friend of mine approached me to, uh, join, uh, what's called nexus international. Yeah. Which they do, uh, youth leadership development, Christian mentoring in 60 countries around the world. Wow. And, and so the idea was to start doing some video production for them to start telling some of those stories. Um, and man, it really hit, you know, for a year. I, I told him, no, I didn't, I wasn't gonna do it because I was gonna take the solid job with benefits. But then my wife finally was like, you'll hate that in 18 months. Exactly. I think she didn't want to go through that and so she's like, okay, you should do this. Right.

Curt:

She's not gonna like it when. Give up that yeah. $80,000 job with benefits. Exactly. So you, so you might, well, not even take it.

Daniel:

That's exactly how it went. So she knew me well enough and we'd been through it, had enough battle scars together that, you know, she's, she's amazing. She, she holds me together, you know, knocks off the rough edges and, and, um,

Curt:

so what's this, what's this role look like with nexus. I know that, uh, you you've been raising support a little bit. You can yeah. Pitch for support. If you pitch a good enough pitch here or whatever, but it's all good.

Daniel:

I don't, I don't need to

Curt:

we're we're, you're, you're fully funded now. We're

Daniel:

fully funded now. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. And you know, I guess what I'm most excited about is that I feel like in media production, you know, we, we basically, we're kind of the storytellers or the, the we're kind of the, um, What do you call 'em? Well, we're the magicians of, of the day, you know, where have all the magicians gone of years ago? Well, it, it's kind of the sensitive people that, that bring this to the table and we make films and we know how to bring the, the spark or the spice to society. I don't want to be a part of, um, I'll, I'll use analogy of, of river full of trash. I don't want to add more mental trash to the river. I want to clean out that river and I want to add, um, life and hope yeah. To, to our over.

Curt:

um, overexposed, overstimulated, thank

Daniel:

you. Yes. Lives, whatever exactly. We don't even, we can't even concentrate more in

Curt:

five seconds, Facebook updates

Daniel:

and yeah. And, and I just wanna bring, you know, hopeful stories to people, you know? And so that's, and, and I realize I can't even do it in this organization. I need to train up a whole bunch of other people to do it. So that's my goal in the long run, like for the immediate future. And hopefully for the rest of my life, I just wanna help these kids, like mentor these kids overseas to teach them like life skills. And also like, how the heck are you supposed to live this life in this weird, crazy world and, uh, make a living, but still yeah.

Curt:

Be in the mission field and yeah, well,

Daniel:

yeah, exactly. And still have like, You know yeah. Wyoming whiskey once in a while. Yeah. Well, thank you. way to bring that in. That

Curt:

was awesome. So, um, so nexus international, describe that organization a bit to me and, and how they interact when these 60 countries and yeah. What the vision is.

Daniel:

Um, very, very grassroots, a whole bunch of, um, uh, youth workers, primarily coming from church backgrounds. Who have seen the opportunity to, um, basically spend their lifetime, like Jesus did mentoring a few people. So it's the 12 disciples. Yeah. Idea, philosophy, theology, whatever. Right. Where you just, you go deep with a few,

Curt:

don't be Billy Graham and try to get yeah. A hundred thousand people be exactly somebody that works with 10 people over years for 20 years, years and years, and sees them each impact a dozen people and sees each those people impact a dozen people.

Daniel:

Exactly. So, yeah, we're kind of like the Romans of today, we have all this, you know, power and access to finances and things as Americans. And we have this opportunity, you know, missions isn't the same as it used to be. Mm. We have an opportunity to reach into people's lives, but they. Their own, they really, they, sorry, I'll start that over. They really reach their own people better than we ever could. Right. And so if we, um, pour into them and encourage them and support them, um, and just, you know, you know, we got problems, all of us that do this, but it's just kind of a bunch of, um, I's a band of brothers. Yeah. That we're just excited about helping people around the world. So, yeah.

Curt:

Well, and I was just thinking to myself that, you know, in today's world, there's a really distinct struggle between the kind of I'm valuable and, and self determinant, except for the fact that I'm bow to the creator. Yeah. Or I'm part of the machine. Yeah. You know, the collectivists and right. You can say the individualists. Like probably arguably the atheists mm-hmm and the Christians are kind of the individualist, right. End of the node where, yeah. Either because of their own standing as a walking meat bag or because of a child of God. Right. You're like I have value just in my own self. Right, right. Whereas, uh, yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So it's a beachhead of sorts what you're trying to create, I think because there is a global momentum against yeah. Human thriving with freedom.

Daniel:

Yeah. I think that's true. Yeah, exactly. Like why in the world in 1968 in Nepal was there 100 Christians and now there's over 2 million and they had a, a seven year jail sentence until 1999. That doesn't make any sense. You know, you're excommunicated from your family and more and more people want it. And yet, you know, this side of the world, we think of Christianity as kind of a logical system. Right. You know, it's a, it's a real different picture when you go into Nepal or China or Africa. Right. You know?

Curt:

Well, and I have to think like, like Plato and Aristotle and Socrates and stuff were there first. Right. They were a few hundred years before Christ. Yeah. Yeah. And so they've. Kind of that, what we call Western values kind of stuff, starting to build players, Republic, all those kind of things like that. Right. And then Christianity kind of overlays on top of that in a lot of ways,

Daniel:

culturally. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it's amazing. Um, and they don't have

Curt:

that in Africa. That's not in China. No,

Daniel:

that's the weird thing. Like this is, we think of Christianity as a Western thing, but it's actually more of an Eastern thing than it is a Western thing now. Hmm. It's amazing.

Curt:

Right. You know? Yeah. There's more Christians east of the Mason Dixon line than there is west of yeah, exactly. China and India. Nepal.

Daniel:

Completely Africa. Yeah. Africa. It's, it's crazy in, and it's starting to dominate.

Curt:

Ways of well in Europe was a post-Christian, you know? Correct. I saw a listing of different nations and how many mm-hmm um, what percentage identifies Christians in those various nations and yeah. Oh, it is very spotty. Some nations are pretty strong still, but exactly. Not

Daniel:

most not. Yeah. We were in Czech Republic for a while and it's the second most atheistic country in the world. Yeah. You know?

Curt:

Um, well, and even Germany, Britain. Yeah. Spain. Oh yeah, exactly. France, you know, they're pretty under 50% now it's post Christian. Yeah. Post Christian nation. Yeah. Yeah. So

Daniel:

there has to be something different that these guys know, and that's what I'm, you know, to, to be honest

Curt:

this whole well, and when God is dead, who's the boss, right? Well, yeah. It's the

Daniel:

date, obviously. Right. And then who, you know, how can you have any, um, there's, you know, how can you have any law in order when there's it's, you know, It doesn't matter anyway, you know what I mean? Mm. Like where does that come from originally? Where, where, where do you even get that notion? I I'm starting on something that I shouldn't even start on, cuz I don't know if we have time, but sure. Um, you want to, yeah. well, like we talk about the law and people talk about like the 10 commandments, like don't murder, don't steal, you know, don't commit murder the father, mother or whatever. Yeah. But there's really a bigger law that dominates our lives in society. And it's, it's, it's what I, I've heard called the little L law. And that's like, what does society tell you? You're supposed to do, you know? Hmm. And we actually live by that law more than anything. We care more about that law based on what culture you're in. Yeah. And the really weird thing about it is the more cultures you go to, the more you realize it changes for every culture. For sure. You know? Yeah.

Curt:

Well like I'm thinking about coronavirus now. Oh exactly. Because I got. Kind of slaughtered cuz I was like a, you know, my risk analysis meter says, do not take this. It's not gonna be a mm-hmm. great idea. And yeah, I got skewed, but in North Dakota, yeah, you so popular. Oh yeah. South Dakota, you know, whatever I know. And so that's what Northwest Kansas, that's what Shellenberger was seeing recently. I heard him talking about the California, uh, election and response. Yeah. And he was like, you know, basically the, what laws were passed. It wasn't because the leaders were these authoritarian yeah. Uh, goers. They actually were doing their best to mirror the cultural expectations of the societies that they were in. Right. Right. So you get what you wanted. Exactly.

Daniel:

Kind of, right. It really hit me hard when I went to Czech Republic and I realized that, you know, even walking on the streets and smiling. Made people think that you were up to something deceptive right, totally right. Yeah. Because as a part of their society, uh, like, you know, everybody was kind of, they were kind of the model of the communist system. Yeah. And everybody was backstabbing everybody. You couldn't even trust your own kids because they were part of yeah. You know, they were schooling them to, to, to rat on their fascinating family. Yeah. And so there's this, you know, it's just a different way of thinking in every single cultural context that provides little L law, which is actually, it dominates us. So where's real freedom. Yeah. I mean,

Curt:

well, and that's where, that's where, why they ban Christianity in some places like China and even Nepal, exactly. Stuff like that. They don't want anybody challenging the emperor or the state or the whatever for, or even the little L

Daniel:

yeah. Law. And yet it's growing. Like, here's the, the crazy thing is. Christianity grows under persecution. So, um, in Nepal when I was there in 2011, yeah. They, the Christians, there are praying for persecution for American Christians. Yeah. And, and

Curt:

it's true though. It's it is true. It really, I mean, if you think about even Europe right now, like the Christians aren't persecuted, right. They just don't care. Right. And, and it's so just Withers on the vine. It does. And I don't, you know, it's

Daniel:

well, like

Curt:

grapes have to be stressed. Yeah, exactly. To PRD. Yeah. PRD and stressed. Exactly. And they can't always have as much water as they want or they won't produce good wine. That's

Daniel:

a very good point. Excuse me. And I'm gonna remember that, cuz yeah. That's,

Curt:

we've had some conversation you have with some kid in Georgia, one of these days. Well, yeah, so you've been again in Georgia recently. Yeah.

Daniel:

We just came back three weeks ago. Okay. And I'm leaving for Georgia again on Thursday.

Curt:

Okay. And what do you like through this role with, um, with nexus? Like what do you hope to achieve? If, if five years from now you've had a tour of duty. Yeah. And you've enjoyed it and feel like accomplished you didn't. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel:

Thank you. Um, you know what I wanna do, most of all doesn't have really much to do with Georgia at all. I wanna go to these countries like Bhutan, Nepal ki gustan that we work in. Um, and I wanna just tell the stories of faith. From these guys who, you know, they could get thrown into jail, they could, they could sometimes be killed. They could be, um, kicked outta their country for being Christians. And I want to know, honestly, it's a personal, um, I'm a journalist at heart. I was a journal major and I, I have this personal quest that I wanna know at first it started with is God real. And now I wanna know what the heck makes these guys tick. Hmm. You know, how, how did they, how did they stay somewhat happy when you know they're going so countercultural. Yeah. You know, I mean, I mean, even looking at, okay, look at Rwanda 25 years ago. Rwanda was one of the worst places in the world to be. And now it's one of the best countries in Africa. Really? Yeah. I didn't know this, but a friend of mine does some min mission work ministry work over there. Yeah. And apparently they've got this new president, who's a Christian and he's just like turned over all the other countries in Africa are looking at Rwanda as an economic example. Interesting. Yeah. And, and now look at Iran, you know, there's tons of refugees fleeing from Ida, Georgia. Mm. And I got to talk to a bunch of 'em personally and, you know, they're just like, it's such a beautiful country, but we can't live there. We're afraid our throats are gonna get SL. Right. Literally, you know, and, um, And so many of,

Curt:

and who are, who are these people? Are they Christians living in Iran?

Daniel:

In Georgia? They're but they're now becoming, yeah, like I've heard these stories personally. Like, um, I don't, I don't probably don't have time to tell all the stories, but they they're so fed up with, with their system that is just so untrustworthy, so broken. Yeah. That they're just like, show me a system that actually works. Right. And, and, and so it's, it's crazy the number of Muslims becoming Christians from Iran. Right? Huh. Unbelievable. There's facts to back that up, but I won't go into the details because you can look it up on the internet. It's it's, it's um, fascinating. It's documented. But um, when you talk to them personally, you realize, whoa, this is a, this is huge.

Curt:

And so you'll be going into these. Kind of deep places where Christians aren't supposed to ought to be almost and interviewing and building relationship with some of these folks keeping 'em yep. Uh, uh, anonymous in many cases, that's correct. Because they're in

Daniel:

danger. Yeah. That's right. All of my filming will be, I'll be doing it in covert ways so that we can tell the stories, but without, um, without you won't hear their actual voices, you won't see their actual faces and

Curt:

all of that. Have you ever thought of using just a, like a, a phone call and uh, I've thought of radio? Well, are those, uh, yeah. They make those little videos where you have stick figures, spell things out. This is yeah. Or Hayes from video or

Daniel:

whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that is powerful. I'm. Sure. Well, yeah. And it's, I'm actually talk to me in two years and I'll tell you how I did cuz I've never done this before. Yeah. So it's a whole new challenge. That I'm excited

Curt:

about. And are you guys, uh, team treat on this adventure then to absolutely is Rita

Daniel:

she's? I mean, primarily to be honest, we are just committed to having our, our youngest has still got three years in high school. Mm-hmm and we just for we've moved so much, we want her to have a stable life. Um, and so until she gets through high school, we're planning on being based outta Fort Collins. So she's team treat in the sense that she's holding everything together. Yeah.

Curt:

And keeping, and you're gonna be back and forth to different international locations. Correct. I

Daniel:

travel back based in Georgia. Or, um, I, I would, you were just having to be there. Yeah. Georgia is kind of this, we, our organization has never worked there. I speak the language, it provided an

opportunity.

Curt:

It's like a future beach hit as well for

Daniel:

nexus kinda. And who knows how it'll work out? You know, it's primarily, my job is still video production for the organization. Yeah. But in the meantime, Hey, there's this opportunity. So let's just do this thing and see what happens. Right.

Curt:

You know, now what happened to the Christian school that your dad found in Georgia all those years ago? So still

Daniel:

alive and kicking 30 years later. Um, they've been going through a real hard time. Um, but they're. They had a flood. It, it was a 22 foot wall of water that whoa, that devastated the flood. So of

Curt:

turned the building down. But didn't quite, yeah,

Daniel:

well, yeah, it was, it was mud three feet deep in, in the whole bottom floor. And, um, so that was a 2015. Um, they've been, they were given land and long, long story short. We they're gonna be on the edge, God willing of a building project. Um, don't know yet where the land's gonna be. Don't know yet a lot of the details. They dad's turning 80. Oh, wow. Um, in October and he is, um, you know, he's still there starting, he goes back and forth. Okay. Yeah. He doesn't, he lives primarily in Kansas now, but he goes back and forth whenever he is needed. And he's, they're planning on starting over after 30 years. Um, yeah, it, yeah, basically building a new building and, and they have a lot of refugee kids. Ukranian yeah. They. They had a bunch of Ukrainian refugee kids that offered to educate for free.

Curt:

And now Georgia is kind of more integrated with the Russian economy than it is correct with this. Yeah. Oh, you know what? Let's uh, we're gonna jump into our faith family politics segments here. Okay. Sounds good. Let's go take a quick potty break and then we come right back. Thank you. I okay. Um, so faith, family politics. I thought we might start with faith because I've heard such a, a weave of faith and your dad's building a Christian school and, uh, all the time in Georgia, Jesus, something TV. Yeah. Uh, devoted to Jesus devoted Jesus DJ TV. Yeah, exactly. And so like, talk to me about faith as a big topic, as a small topic where you've been, where you're

Daniel:

going. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think growing up, um, man, you know, it was just weaved into everything. It was kind of assumed it was definitely assumed. Yeah. Baptized when I was six years old in a Baptist church, in a small town. Um, you know, um, my parents building a Christian school. Sure. And then, you know, um, boy, you know, I just knew how to talk all the Christian lingo. Yeah. You know? And so the Baptist

Curt:

don't do infant baptism. Huh? They don't, you know, you're old enough to say I'm ready get

Daniel:

me full on dunking. And I was, yeah. I was five years old. And when my mom just asked me if I wanted to pray to accept Jesus and I was like, yeah, I don't want to go to hell. So

Curt:

right. You already knew

Daniel:

the story. Yeah. I mean, I I'd gotten it from day one. Yeah. You know, kind

Curt:

of hellfire and brimstone Turner burn kind

Daniel:

of style completely. Yeah. That's what it was, you know? Um, and so yeah. I was like, you know, fear of God, you know, Yeah. So, but you know, it was very, yeah. Just part of life, you know, and, and I didn't, it was a very, um, This is part of my culture. If anybody

Curt:

didn't believe that they didn't talk about it. Yeah. Back in Kansas area. Yeah.

Daniel:

That's right. And if you, and in Kansas, if you, if you weren't on the right side of the railroad tracks, you know, you were kind of looked down upon scorned. Hmm. You know? Um, yeah. Because there's only 7,000 people in the county, you know? Really. Yeah. So, so like that's a pretty big county. So like, you know, you know, I just figured I was a good kid on the good side of the railroad tracks. Yeah. You know, my grandparents, my great grandparents were, you know, people that built the church in the little town. And is that, that's the Baptist

Curt:

church also time. That was the Baptist church. Cause is there like Catholics and Lutherans and stuff like that? Yeah. Jostling for position back where you're from

Daniel:

too. There is, yeah. I mean, in our little town of 80 people, there was only a Baptist church. Oh, interesting. Yep. But in, in Colby, which was nearby, there was all, you know, Lutheran. Um, yeah. All of the, all the typical Methodist Luther and Catholic. Sure. All of the above, you know? Yeah.

Curt:

And, um, and each town, depending on which population group largely settled there built, you know, there's like the English church or the Swedish church or whatever. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Daniel:

Those towns all around you'd have like a very strong denominational thing going on. And yeah. It was just part of life, you know, it was part of going to four H and the lions club breakfast, you know? Yeah. Um, which I loved is I just loved that storytelling culture that we grew up in, you know? Um, but yeah,

Curt:

like different when you moved here to Fort Collins, I imagine. Yeah. True. Or burgeoning 13 year old at that time

Daniel:

and yeah. Yeah. And we, we moved here into a non-denominational church that was just, um, you know, was a great place, um, another Christian school, but I didn't, you know, we didn't have, we were sheltered. Let's just be honest, you know, it just put. Put fences in front of fences in front of fences in order to protect your kids, you know? Right. Which I, nowadays I believe is very wrong, you know? Yeah. Because, um, it makes kids think or makes people think that they're, that they can save themselves. Yeah. Essentially, you know, like, oh, if I just do this stuff the right way, then God will love me, you know? And, um, it doesn't really have a lot to do with actual faith, but it, you know, it took me a long, long time. Yeah.

Curt:

A lot of years of, well, talk to me about that. Like you, yeah. You made, you raised your hands and said dunk me when you were five, six years old, five, six years old. Yeah. And then. But it sounds like you made an intentional recommitment of sorts later in life, or maybe more than

Daniel:

once. And I'm still to be honest, I'm still doing it, you know, like, yeah. I think going into the mission field with my parents being missionaries, when I was young, I walked away really kind of, um, walked away from my faith. Although I didn't tell anybody I kept going to church. Yeah. And then. Built the business started building life. And none of that, it was all good. I, you know, loved all that.

Curt:

Oh, but that DJ TV time, like, were you on fire at that time? Or was it kind of the persona that you were playing and cuz your missionaries kid and stuff? Here's what

Daniel:

I thought. I thought Christian kids got to have their cake and eat it too. Like they, you know, you get to go to heaven and you get the good life. Right. So you really are popular cuz in America that's kind of how it is, you know? So like

Curt:

yeah. You know, you get the good yeah. The resurrection Christian school kids, dads have the nicest cars. Exactly. And the kids do too.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you get the good, you get the good girl, you get the good life, you know, and you get to go to heaven. What could be better? You know? Right. And then, you know, I was, I think I was really faced with suffering. Mm. During that time our pastor's wife died of cancer. Um, and she was really close to my mom. And like, um, then I, I was held up at gunpoint a couple of times. I knew people who died in the war while we were over there. Cuz there was a couple of wars that happened while we were there. Yeah. Um, and I just began to realize that, um, suffering was actually a huge part of the Bible and I didn't like that part you. Right. It, it kind of when I began to realize, you know, um, kind of, I, I, they didn't hit job, uh, during yeah, no, we kind of avoided job right. Well, lot of churches do. Yeah, exactly. And, and yeah, just this idea that, um, you know, good things come to good people. Like it was, it's more of a ying and a yang. You scratch my back. I'll scratch yours. Yeah. Instead of understanding making deals with God. Yeah. And that's what it was for me. Like, you know, I came to understand that, um, What I believed in was an idea of God. Um, it was my idea of God. And whenever you believe in your own idea of God, you really believe in yourself because you're believing in your idea. you know, so to believe in a God who, you know, has absolute control and can do whatever the heck he wants, that's pretty scary. you know, like, um, yeah. And so, you know, even today I think I still struggle with is God good? You know? Um, I don't even have that question. Does God exist anymore? But I, you know, just, you know, that that's true. Yeah, I do. I, because I've, I've, it it's like a personal project, you know, but I still, I, I do think that, you know, as a Christian kid, it's like harder to become a Christian because the, the, the concepts bounce off of you easier. Yeah. You've got like a built in like, um, uh, I would almost call it like, uh, Uh, passive aggressive shield. right. And, and it has to be like kind of broken and cracked before you have an opportunity again. And, and that's when I, when I really began to realize it was the business and coming kind of to the end of myself, I wasn't sleeping. I was just obsessing over the business and it was outwardly very successful, but I was just like, who am I during that whole time? And I came to this cracking point, especially when I started to realize I was just losing my kids. Like they're getting raised by nannies and I'm just being run by this thing that I'm, I'm doing this thing just to, just to stay successful or whatever, you know, mm-hmm And, um, I, I be got to this place where I realized, um, sorry, I gotta collect my thoughts a little bit here, cuz it's, it's honestly a little emotional, but um, I realized just that. Um, uh, you know, I didn't really know God. I knew I knew who he wanted you to be. Yeah, yeah. Right. I knew, I knew like the morals and the laws and stuff. Yeah. But like, I, if I, okay. Here's what happened. I'm gonna give you the full, low down. Right. Do it. You ready? I'm ready. Okay.

Curt:

So she cried. There's a tissue right

Daniel:

there. yeah. There's like this, this bride, this was in 2005, there was a bride. And I met downtown Fort Collins in like a coffee shop. And I know exactly what table I was sitting at because she asked me what I believed and I wasn't ready for the conversation. And I said, I don't believe in anything. Hmm. And it, and it was like one of those movie moments where like all of life slowed down to this, this like, whoa. Right. You know? And you're just like, what did I say? You know, like,

Curt:

wait a second. And then what did she say?

Daniel:

We just went on with the conversation. Oh. Like, and I just wanted the client so bad. Like I like literally had.

Curt:

Right. You didn't want to, I didn't wanna chase her off with your Christianity. That's

Daniel:

right. Yeah. I didn't and I was scared and I was like, um, all of these Bible verses came into my head, like the, the sheep and the goats, like the rooster crowing. I'm hearing the rooster crowing in like this moment right. In my, and just like, boom. And it was like the super, super low point when I was just like, okay, wait, it's just a facade. I don't believe this. You know, like, I believe what my parents told me, but that doesn't mean squat, you know, because, you know, because what I did in my band didn't make a hill of beans worth a difference in people's lives that I was hanging with. Um, because I didn't really believe it. So I could, I could state, I could spout like truths. Yeah. You know, but like, I've been thinking a lot about this, just like how. Different. It is. Um, like if you're, if you're being guided up into the mountains, you kind of get a feeling for the guy that actually has been there. You don't like rely on the guy that studied the maps. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm you just like, you're like all of a sudden, if your life's on the line, you're like, okay, who knows what the heck's going on here? and that's what happened with this experience of overseas travel, doing some video production where I met these guys in Nepal, I went to Africa, I went to check and I was like, just asking God, what's real. Is it real? You know, and I'm not talking about this pretense thing that we get. And American Christianity, where from the, from the front people talk about, oh, you know, grace, this is how things work. And then they come down and have the potluck dinner. And they're like shunning, some guy who just slept with his girlfriend. Right. And it's like, I'm not, I'm not saying any particular yeah. Thing about a guy and his girlfriend. What I'm saying is that there's a, there's a subtext that's being taught and we learn from the subtext, just like in a movie, you, you know, you learn 10% from what's spoken, but 90%, but what kind of that small L stuff a little bit, that's the little L law. Yeah, exactly. And that's, and that's, what's dominating our lives. So where's the freedom, whatever community you're in. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's really awesome to jump communities and go, wait a second. That my, what I thought was reality isn't necessarily, that's not their reality. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So anyway. Yeah.

Curt:

And so, um, like what was there, was there a turning point there somewhere?

Daniel:

Hmm, thank you. I'm such a divergent person. Yeah. um, so basically, yeah, I got to the place where I realized that all the people that I looked down on. Because they were doing whatever the heck they wanted. I was worse than them because what I was doing was staying inside of church, acting like I knew what the heck I was talking about, but really sticking a finger at God, because I, in the end, what I wanted to say was walk up to God and say, see, I did it. You gotta let me in. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Curt:

So it kind of works based on completely,

Daniel:

completely because, but I didn't realize it until it smacked me in the face. Yeah. You know, with a, like a two by four to the face, you know? Yeah. And then all of a sudden it's just like, bam, you're just like, you know, it's just that forgiveness thing. Like, um, when

Curt:

you know, well, and when you convince yourself, you don't really have anything to be forgiven about. Mm-hmm Yeah, that's a you're wrong. And B you act like it kinda, it's

Daniel:

completely judgemental. Mm-hmm like, and that's who I was. And still am. That's the part that, you know, I still don't always think I grasp because I still act as a legalist or a moralist or whatever you wanna say. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to get it outta your

Curt:

bones, you know? Yeah. Like, no, I I've never been there honestly. Yeah. Because I'm, yeah. I play fast and loose with the rules all my whole life, you know, and came from a less yeah. Christian background into yeah. You know, maybe a more hesitantly accepted one.

Daniel:

Yeah. And, and I honestly think. You know, it's probably harder for kids that grow up in Christian homes a lot of times. Mm.

Curt:

To find that sincere faith. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel:

Because of that passive aggressive, like, you know, it's like, okay, we're supposed to forgive, but this is actually what that

Curt:

looks like. Yeah. You know, it's one of the things I like about the, uh, the, the Genesis project church over here. Yeah. I love that. Where they're like, you know, Hey, we got a bunch of, you know, former strippers and yeah. Bikers and people out of prison that

Daniel:

come here, the authenticity is amazing,

Curt:

you know? Well, and Jesus said that too, right. Like I didn't come for the people that are righteous.

Daniel:

Yeah. Right. It's just basically a rescue operation. Yeah. So, you know, for me, it was a double rescue operation because somehow he got, had to get through that thick shell of religiosity. Mm mm-hmm and so that makes me, you know, Even more. Um, now,

Curt:

is that going through that experience, what kind of brought you back to, to some extent ministry work, especially like, it's

Daniel:

a really good question. Cuz I got burned in a lot of ministries. Um, bottom line is I was going for some really shiny ministries that I thought would change the world. Just like my, my. Yeah, my rap time and my TV, Showtime in Georgia. And now this ministry nexus is super grass

Curt:

roots. Yeah. It's like super intentionally, like don't share the link to this video. Yeah.

Daniel:

No seriously. And like, they, they don't even, like, we're not on Facebook anywhere. We're not on, you know, Instagram. Yeah. It's, it's so low key. And, and it's just like the opposite, basically. I I've kind of compare it to like an underground river, super powerful, but you wouldn't know it's even there. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. So, you know, that's yeah. That's super, super excited about being a part of that now, you know,

Curt:

that's very cool. Yeah. Um, I feel we covered faith. Pretty good. Uh, do you wanna talk about your family or politics next family first? Oh, oh,

Daniel:

um, yeah. Uh, sure. Family let's go. Sure. Yeah.

Curt:

Uh, tell me about your children. I, I actually, uh, I usually ask for a one word description of your children. Perfect. Can you provide that for me for, is it two boys and a girl? Two

Daniel:

boys and a girl. Okay. Oldest is Alex. Um, I don't think he would be upset by me saying brainiac. Oh, nice. Um, Ben, my second son, who's turning 20 in two weeks. Um, uh, absolute artist. Sorry, artist. One word. Yeah. And my daughter grace, who's 15. Um, oh man. A adventurer probably. Yeah, I'd say that's

Curt:

good. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Those are all very positive comments. Yeah. Um, so Alex is the oldest and he's outta school now. Isn't he like doing some like digital stuff and making TikTok videos? No, that's been, oh, that's Ben.

Daniel:

Alex is, um, he loves philosophy. He does studies it for fun, but he's, he. Uh, wants to be a mechanical engineer and he's studying at CSU. Okay. Starting in, in August. Very good. Very good. Yeah. So, um, yeah, he's my brainiac kid. He's part of a group called rash Christie so that they debate, um, Ooh,

Curt:

yeah. Socratic

Daniel:

method stuff and whatnot completely. Oh yeah. He's a very interesting, I should probably spend

Curt:

some time with him. You would enjoy you about that. Uh, last time we hung out

Daniel:

so completely enjoy him. Yeah. Um, he, I don't, I can't even talk to him. Some of the words he uses it's too much for me. honestly, some of the words you use, you got way deeper Phal philosophy background than me, but yeah. Um, and then yes. Yeah. So anyway, love, love him to death. He's a great kid, but he is just so different to

Curt:

me. Yeah. Yeah. well, that's kind of part of the fun part, right? Like it is to some extent. Myself and Jill, you and Rita. Yeah. Different in different ways that can't really categorize.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And Ben, so Ben is, so he's our influencer, um, on TikTok and Instagram, um, he just won a show called, um, exposure. Um, so he, he won quote, put quotes. He won a contract with Samsung for, uh, quarter million dollars. What? Yeah. So, and he's how old he's not, not quite 20, so, wow. Yeah. So that's cool. So he's he

Curt:

does. So he is gonna promote this episode of the local experience podcast for us.

Daniel:

I'd have to ask him, I actually have to talk to his agent to be honest. awesome. He's got an agent from New York, so that's so cool. Um, so that's crazy and he's. Yeah. I love him chip off the old block, you know, super driven and, um, ambitious, um, you know, super free and wild. Like he's got this big hair that goes down past his shoulders. Oh wow. And stuff. That's cool. Yeah. And, um, but he works out of our basement and he makes four times more. What I make, does he pay appropriate rent? Well, he's starting to, okay.

Curt:

at least buy the groceries for the whole family. He does. He's, he's a

Daniel:

very generous kid to be honest, but he that's awesome. But he's also like, uh, super

Curt:

frugal. So it's kind of weird. That's cool that, that you and he both had like that. Yeah. Early stardom kind of thing in different ways, but

Daniel:

yeah, it is. It's bizarre. Yeah. Yeah.

Curt:

Because his must have come out of rapid pace too. It has, he,

Daniel:

he started, um, when he was 16, he did 100 animations in 100 days. Oh. And he kind of launched him Uhhuh and. So now he does gigs for like, Wimbleton, he did a gig for Wimbleton, uh, their hundred year anniversary. Wow. Yeah. And you know, he basically, yeah, he, he's just a very

Curt:

talented kid, you know? Yeah. Sounds like it. But, um, I wanna meet him too. Yeah. He should just have all, all your kids on for my next episode. Wow. And how about grace?

Daniel:

And yeah, so grace, she is, um, you know, she just, she's 15, she loves her school. Um, she goes over to a classical academy, which is a new charter school over here. Super excited about that. Um, and you know, she just, she loves adventure. So she loves traveling with us. She's gone to Georgia with us twice. Cool. Um, loves New Zealand. Um, loves friends, loves her dog and she also plays, she plays ukulele. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And, um, she, yeah, she, she like bus she's bus. She does, has done some busing on the streets in Fort Collins. Oh, fun stuff like that with her friends. And, um, she's just a fun, loving. Girl. She's just really fun to be around. She's so much like Rita, to be honest, when, when, when,

Curt:

well, that was your next, uh, your next thing is, oh yeah. To, uh, shower, some love. What? Uh, yeah, like what about Rita caught your attention? yeah, in the beginning. Yeah. In the beginning and in even return trip.

Daniel:

Yeah. Um, boy, I, I wrote a song about it when I was young, cuz I, I played guitar. Um, do you wanna sing it for us? No, I don't even remember all the words I'm so old. Um, I, but anyway, yeah, she just, she's a, an amazing artist, um, lover of life, just, um, she's super sarcastic, which is opposite to me. Hmm. in so many ways. And, and she keeps me balanced, uh, in ways that I don't even like to be honest. Right.

Curt:

well, let's, uh, you know, I listen to, uh, Jordan Peterson's podcast pretty regularly, and he talks about how mm-hmm, a man and a woman contend with each other. Oh, that's a great, and yeah, it makes them both stronger and better than they would be otherwise. And absolutely. I mean, yeah. Yes. There are some like single men that go throughout life and, and are high functioning and yeah. Usually because they're married to their work and things like that. Yeah. But yeah, I'd be a freaking lousy person by now, if it wasn't for the influence of my wife and my life,

Daniel:

you are so right. Um, like, yeah, basically. Oh, I, we call each other, I call her my battle buddy now. Hmm. Um, it's. you know, to be honest, I was super controlling coming out of a legalistic background. So you've heard my backstory, I was judgemental. Um, and you know, I, I just, I was probably just like terrible husband to be around. Yeah. Um, and I was really just relying on her for self worth, which, um, you know, and I still do probably to a huge degree, you know? Um, and, and yeah, a lot of that's changed as we've gotten older. My son, about two or three years ago, my oldest son, Alex studied a lot of Myers Briggs stuff. Mm-hmm and one day he came to us and he said, did you know that you, you guys personalities, you guys' Myers Briggs types. Are the second least likely to stay married. I love it. And I was like, oh, that we were both like, oh, that makes a lot of sense because we're very similar Rita and I are so similar, but in one, one or two ways we're different. And it just makes us completely at each other's throat. Sometimes

Curt:

I just had, uh, my former marriage counselor, Josh Emery on last week. Oh, cool. And, uh, he, one thing that he said that people need to do more of mm-hmm is tolerate. Yeah, exactly. Like we can't really change each other that much. We can change ourselves a fair bit over time if we're patient and intentional. Yeah. Um, like, it was just kind of at some point you're like, well, yeah, you guys have been married for 25 years. 25 years. Yeah.

Daniel:

26 in December 26. That

Curt:

was awesome. Yeah. Um, what was it mm-hmm aside from the fact that you were DJ cool. When you came back from Georgia, like, what was it that made her not really wanna say no in that first seven page letter.

Daniel:

Oh man. That's a really good question. I wish she was here to answer that. Um, I sometimes I think she probably regrets saying yes did he? Yeah. Too bad. No, but yeah. So I, I do you think that really.

Curt:

That she regrets saying yes, because I've detected nothing of that sort.

Daniel:

Okay. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. I, I think that, um, I am sometimes a very hard person to live with. Hmm. I've made her jump off of many cliffs with me and that's hard for a woman. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so, uh, it's hard for most men. Yeah. It, she, she has actually said to our kids, I've heard her say that I would never have been DISA adventurous. Had it not been that I married your dad. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, there's a, there's a love, hate relationship there. Yeah.

Curt:

yeah, no, I think that's, uh, which

Daniel:

is completely, um, I don't wanna say normal. I'm not gonna say normal. No, but I would say like, you know, it's, it's not bad, you know, because yeah. You dry yourself up to higher levels all the time. Good to be stretched a little bit. Yeah. And she does, you know, like, um, yeah. I'm always completely baffled by her. Um, You know, but I just enjoy waking up next to her, you know, like, yeah, that's the thing you, you're just looking at something like it's an enigma. You can't even, what the heck, how does this thing tick, you know, and, and, and completely in love. Um, but man, you know, we've been on the edge of the, you know, divorce, uh, six years ago and um, you know, she was hating my guts and for good reason probably. Yeah, yeah. You know, but, um, uh, but no, absolutely for good reason, you know? Yeah. Right. But, um, but what I've seen is that, um, you know, the, basically this idea that you can forgive, you know, um, well, and that it's

Curt:

a covenant. Yeah. I think that's what, yeah. You know, that's one thing that Christians probably benefit from more so. Okay. Yeah. Than others is they at least know the definition of a covenant. Yeah, that's

Daniel:

right. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't think that. You, you can't really learn it deep and solid until you've been through it, you know? Yeah. And so, um, man, I'm thankful for that because yeah. It is a covenant, you know, and yeah. We would've been long gone had it not been, but we would've missed out on all

Curt:

kinds of yeah. All the good stuff that happened after those times. Yeah. Yeah,

Daniel:

exactly. For sure. So still learning about that, to be honest, you know? Yeah. Um, still feel inadequate and uncomfortable even talking about it because I know I got a long ways to

Curt:

go. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, and there's probably places where she feels like, gosh, I've let Daniel down here or yeah. Whatever, always,

Daniel:

you know? Yeah. I'm sure there are, you know, um, probably not as many uh, I dunno.

Curt:

anyway. So I almost feel like that should have been our last segment, but now you gotta talk about politics. Oh, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. What would you like to say about politics? We're kind of in the, we got run up to the midterms coming on. If you wanna go national scope, we could talk global politics. Ooh, this Russia, Ukraine. We could talk about climate alarmism. We could talk about COVID response. We could talk about abortion. Yeah. That's so many fun topics that we could entertain. Ah, wow.

Daniel:

Where do I even start? Um, well, first of all, I would say, I don't know who I am anymore. As far as my political affiliations, I I'm, uh, I guess unaffiliated would probably be the best way to say it. And that's a really. Strong statement for me. Yeah. After 40

Curt:

years of being an

Daniel:

R oh, completely, completely. Um, and even saying, this is likely to potentially get me in trouble with a lot of my friends from Kansas, you know? Right. And they're like, who, what? You're not, you're not an R you know, and, and, but the weird thing is in my profession as a media producer, most of the time, people would always assume that I came from the opposite spectrum. Sure. And so I would just sit quiet and listen and, and get perspective, you know, as a, kind of a paid observer, which is the job of a

Curt:

journalist. Yeah. Well, and it's an interesting thing. I've I've frankly, over the last five or 10 years, I've met a lot more people that dropped the D yeah. And became an independent than people that have dropped the R and become an independent really, really, for sure.

Daniel:

I, I'm not surprised,

Curt:

but it's very interesting. Although probably during the Trump orange man bad season, there was a lot of people that faced a lot of peer pressure to drop the R because of the. Yeah. Uh, card club or

Daniel:

something, those right. Yeah. Yeah. True. That was a tough time. Yeah. And I, um, yeah, it was a tough time between me and my dad, even because, you know, he's like what, you don't know who you are anymore. And, but yeah. I just, you know, um, oh, how well,

Curt:

but you know what your principles are though, right? I

Daniel:

do. Yeah, I do. Yeah. And, and, um, you know, what I would say is the biggest thing that I'm noticing is, is disunity, like how much the divide has grown and, um, it's. Uh, how do I even start this cultural Christianity thing that we talked about from the beginning? Yeah, yeah. Has kind of been the

Curt:

facade of Christianity kind of because yeah. Christians have nicer cars and per your wives and yeah. Right. Their lives.

Daniel:

Right. Whatever, that kind of thing, at least that supposed notion that supposed notion. Yeah, exactly. And, and, um, I guess just kind of realizing, oh boy, how do I even say this? Um, well I just wanna identify with, um, it, I hate those dividing lines, man. It just, it rips people to shrimps. Yeah. Well, the

Curt:

words are important. Yeah. You know, and so yeah, I, I'm kind of one of those grammar, Nazi type people where it's like, you know, say the right word for the

Daniel:

purpose IM in trouble with you. no, um, I, I just, yeah, I kind of think like, okay, so. I'm looking at leaders like lining up on these far, you know, positions, right. Mm-hmm and, and I guess what I would be most excited about is a leader who, um, accepts, like, if you go, if you see a leader, like if you go back to Northwest Kansas and, and you see a leader who has people following them, that's from both spot, both

Curt:

sides of our division. Totally. There's tons of that happens around that's, you know, a lot of our best leaders on a local level here, whether they be, yeah. You know, former mayor Trel is a good example. Exactly. Yeah. You know, he's a, a, a lower case R yeah, probably exactly. But B barely knew it, you know? Yeah. And right.

Daniel:

And yeah, you see people lining up next to them and, and you see, um, Something that transcend transcends, um, our political divides. Yeah. And, um, and on the opposite spectrum. True as well. If I see, you know, someone come, someone coming from a democratic, uh, a Democrat background, but that then you see, you know, Republicans coming and, and saying, Hey, I, you know, I'm understanding or I'm, I'm, I'm on board with this person I'm on board with this. But the weird thing is both sides have strengths and, and they've emphasized those strengths. Right. Mm-hmm mm-hmm and, and

Curt:

we just try not to talk about the weaknesses.

Daniel:

Exactly. Yeah. And so, like, I, I'm more, I'm more interested in those leaders and I kind of think this, you know, even just the, the, the big COVID thing that's happened within the last couple of years, that's kind of emphasized the divide. Yeah. Even more has brought to light. Um, What kind of leaders to stay away from on both sides and which leaders to stick close to on both sides of the, of the spectrum or of the divide, I guess. Yeah, because which ones are, are actually, okay. I'm gonna bring it in here we go. I'm gonna bring it into movie terms because I have this director back in Kentucky who I just love. Um, and we were creating a film curriculum back in the day, and I love how he explained, um, how to make good films. Um, and it was coming from this perspective of Christian filmmakers often don't make good films cuz they're just preachy, you know, mm-hmm and he was basically saying, if you wanna make good films, you need to talk to, uh, issues that are ultimate to all people. Hmm. Issues that are, um, not just. Not just like, uh, from a Christian camp or a liberal camp or whatever. Um, but talk to an issue that's um, that's universal. Yeah. Um, so talk about love or talk about, you know, death or talk about all these things. And, and in a way I think we really need to reinvent language to be able to, um, speak to people in a new way. Our Christian culture has kind of alienated itself. Hmm. Um, and, and there needs to be a new language to speak to universal truths. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I don't know how that works in the politics world. Right. But somehow we've gotta start doing that. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I don't care whether you're a Republican or Democrat. Yeah. But if there's a leader, that's who I'm gonna

Curt:

go to. Yeah. And if we, I, I wrote a blog mm-hmm a year and a half ago or two and a half maybe. Um, the. What was it on virtue was the title of it. And I, and I unfolded that like, okay, we got the four way test and rotary and this and that. Yeah. Mm-hmm and then I used the 10 commandments, as you know, maybe this is actually like the best example, but yeah. So it doesn't freak you guys out. Let's just call it the 10 principles for a more, better life.

Daniel:

Exactly. Like, yeah, you don't go to, you know, even in Africa, you know, where they're practicing voodoo or something, they still got the same principles. Yeah. That make for a better life, you know? Yeah. It's like, you know, this is universal truth, you know, so yeah. You know, this is not a system that's, that's trying to enslave us. This is a, this is a, um, you know, okay. Galatians five, one it's for freedom that Christ has set us free, basically where the heck is that. And I, I wanna go back to those guys as an example, like. We were in Nepal. And this one dude who was one of the first Christians in Nepal, was protesting on the streets because the Hindu government was digging up the dead bodies of the Christians and throwing their bodies on the trash heaps of the streets of Catman do. Wow. And so they were bringing, the Christians were bringing it up in peaceful protests by saying, Hey, look, this is kind of a, a humanitarian issue. Right. And so they were just, you know, walking around the streets with caskets that say, please don't do this anymore. You know? Right. And, and, you know, honestly, things have gotten worse in Nepal. More, more Christians have gotten killed

Curt:

more persecutions and more persecution, which is why they're growing so fast. Exactly.

Daniel:

Continuing to grow. But like, you know, that guy I could stand by and look at that dude. And he was putting his life on the line. Yeah. For standing for something. Like he was ready really well. He was ready to die for that issue because he was like, dude, I'm already 65. Right? Like, as in and as a Nepal says, that's an old dude in Nepal, you know? Right.

Curt:

Well, and I'm just thinking to myself here, we talked about kind of that separation, the divide mm-hmm And a lot of it is between whether they're faith oriented or not the conservatives and the progressives or whatever, but in many respects, both things happen. The, the Christians tried to set themselves behind 18 walls. Yes. Separating themselves from the bad people. Right. Quote unquote. Right. and, and the other folks, especially those that were maybe had been informed by Christian values, but it kind of a post God generation we're like, yeah. All right, bye. Yeah, that's right. I don't

Daniel:

even wanna deal with

Curt:

that. Yeah. And we don't have to pay attention to any of. Right. Thoughts and rules and stuff. We still have sensitivities and notions. Yeah. But if you wanna, you know, right. Be in a six way, love triangle with your three wives, right? Yeah. You do. You homie. Right. Right.

Daniel:

And yeah. As if that doesn't affect, you know, so many things, so many people and yeah. It's yeah, yeah. I, I guess there is a place of, we have to, I think we have to see these things play out, you know, I don't think I'm, you know, you

Curt:

don't have the credit to talk on the political sphere.

Daniel:

I don't, I feel like you can tell, I don't, I'm just like, that's fair. Well, we'll move on. I want to get back. I want get back to like cleaning up the river, you know, like I just wanna,

Curt:

I just wanna get, put good. Some water plants in there and stuff like that.

Daniel:

You can tell I'm completely outta my depth when it comes to this question. So fair enough. Well,

Curt:

um, let's move on to the final, final segment. Okay. The Loco experience. Mm-hmm uh, the craziest. Moment time, week, day. Yep. In your life that you're willing to share.

Daniel:

Oh, wow. I wasn't ready for this question. Um, craziest moment, time, day, week in my life,

Curt:

whatever near local experience the, okay. A moment in time or a, or a week in time or a year in the life, even if, but what was that experience? That was really a yeah. Unusual story of some sort. Um,

Daniel:

okay. So, I mean, there's lots of examples or lots of stories like that. Um, lots of I'll pick one. I'll pick one. That sounds good. Um, life's fun, you know? Um, I just had until you get shot. Yeah. well, yeah, that might be fun too, you know? Yeah. Meet new people in the

Curt:

emergency room. Yeah.

Daniel:

Anyway, I don't even rough first story. No, no, it's all good. Um, so I'm, I'm working for my friend, um, in, in, we're doing super bowl footage down in Denver. Yeah. And, you know, we're traveling. I think, I can't remember who I met that year, but it was Peyton Manning and all these guys, you know, and you get to do interviews, but you're Jo you're jostling for position with all these 5,000 media people. right. All at the same time. And I get, okay. It was the year that we lost against the Seattle Seahawks. Mm-hmm in the first two minutes of the game. Right. Bronco against basically Broncos against the Seahawks and our funding for our show just tanked overnight. So, oh, right. Because we basically were gonna get like triple the money if the Broncos won or even if they did decent. And, and because they did poorly, uh, which was sad, um, we, you know, our funding was just gone. Huh. You know? Okay. And so it would've played out a little longer, you know, working for media is like working for the circus. The money's there. Oh, the money's gone. Oh, you know, interesting, like move out of town, this bad vibes, you know, and, um, I got, you know, the money was gone. So I was out of a job and we were, we were just on the edge of like launching this sports channel. Mm. And, and I ended up working. Uh, I was in this local church. Um, I was, you know, we were basically homeless at that point. Wow. Um, and, and, uh, essentially this, um, lady walked up to my wife at church and she was like, my husband's, uh, he, he, he installs windows and doors for this big, uh, high rise company in Denver. And, um, you know, all hire your husband, you know, so I got, I got paid like 25 bucks an hour. Yeah. And I, it was just this point in my life where I was like, who the heck am I like? Yeah. I, I'm not a depressed

Curt:

person without somebody doing something nice for you like that, you might have. Had a tougher time of it.

Daniel:

Well, I did have a tough time. I was, I was in a very, the lowest point in my life where I was just, um,

Curt:

you know, were those the days when R was wondering if she still wanted to be married to you as she was

Daniel:

also, that was the beginning of it. And she thought we were gonna be living under a bridge. Yeah, literally. Um, yeah. And, and yeah, so I got to this point in my life where I was just like, you know, when you lose something that you think is so valuable, um, you start to ask, who am I? Yeah. And, and it got to this understanding through the process, you know, we're working with like 150 construction crew guys. I'm up on a lift five stories high, and I'm trying to screw a window in. And the, the lift is swaying back and forth. Six inches you're tied in though. Right. I was tied in, but like I, the lift falls over,

Curt:

you know, I'm teasing. I'm sure it's

Daniel:

crazy. Yeah. Anyway, like, um, That was just this, this crazy low point, but I'm so thankful for it now. Yeah, because those, those supposed failures are like the building blocks of life. You know, like I, I think from then on, I, you know, I didn't have to put all my worth in what I did. You kind of become free. Yeah. You know, because you go, oh wait, I'm still, I'm still alive. I'm still who I am. Yeah. Even though, you know, I, wasn't a director of photography for a film company. Sure. Which is

Curt:

what we were yeah. Are the co-creator of this new channel or this is that or whatever. Yeah. And I imagine that, uh, a year and a half as a dog poop picker, uper helps to reaffirm that

Daniel:

lesson, same process. But it wasn't as hard the second time, because I was like, you know what, after this year and a half, I still, you know, that it doesn't mean I don't have tools. Like sure. Media production is my hammer and my saw, but let's say I lost my eyesight tomorrow. I'm still a happy dude, you know, because who I am became more a part of like, um, well, to be honest, you know, a, a, a loved child of God, mm-hmm that became who I was not

Curt:

somebody that earned. Yeah, his favor and my, the, yeah. Envy of my neighbors and my, yeah. Wife's friends wish they were married to me instead of her and right, right. Just this, all those things that comparing ourselves to the Jones is

Daniel:

trying to be a hero. Yeah. You know, always trying to be a hero, um, saved the world, you know, it was a, it was a burden that needed to get lifted. Yeah. And, and I'm super thankful because, um, I just, I just feel like I walk more free because of

Curt:

it. Yeah. Well, I'm the play kind of thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm, awesome. Sweet. Uh, this has been a fun time. Thanks for joining. And, uh, it's been really, really good. It's uh, great to having the local experience. Daniel. Appreciate the

Daniel:

opportunity. Thanks Kurt. Cut. Speed. Yeah.